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Author Topic: Discussion Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?

L
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Discussion Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#40: October 17, 2011, 07:49:38 PM
Ok, so I may be luckier than most here since my H is living with Tailgate Buddy and not an OW. Please forgive me if I am speaking out of turn. However, the saying turn the other cheek has good application here. Many people in our lives hurt us for a variety of reasons. We can choose to forgive or not. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself.

I have learned a lot in this crisis. I miss my H, but he has done some truly hurtful things these past few months. But, just like cheating, I know he has the capacity to stop his behaviors and change how he approaches his life. Just because something is happening now, that is not a guarantee that it will continue. So once a cheater always a cheater is not written in stone.

My mother was a grudge master. She could recount from 1943 on to the day my dad died in 1983 every offense he ever committed against her. She was a miserable person. Her victim mentality made her very unpalatable to be around. Even after she remarried she still brought up crap about my dad. Her new husband said to me at one point, "you have to understand your mother, she's had a hard life. Her mother in law wasn't very nice to her." My reply was " Her MIL died in 1963. I don't think she's said an unkind word since." He just looked at me and smiled realizing he was getting sucked into her drama.

So my feeling here is, AnneJ if you are so injured by what has happened to you, you need to find a way to let go of it. How is this enhancing your life? You say you are done, but you keep rehashing what has happened to you and how hurt you are and what a D**k (my word,not yours, but that is the feeling I get) your H is. He may be, I don't know him.  But life is short. If you are done, move on. Let it go. Stop living in your past. Events shape our lives, but even negative experiences can have positive results.

If the others on this board want to allow a seed of doubt that their spouses will cheat again, why are you so hell bent on pointing out that that doubt is misplaced. They are our lives and we get to choose how we will live it and what we want to do. I think your time would be better spent learning how to find the Silver Linings in this situation. Through all the hurt I have endured, I choose to find the good that still surrounds me. If I choose to wait for my H to figure himself out, why do you want to discourage my Stand? You don't know all the other spouses to decide what they will or will not do.

So StarGG, in answer to the question, no, once a cheater they are not always a cheater. Anyone can choose to change. But it is their choice.

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trying2bok
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#41: October 17, 2011, 08:07:05 PM
Anne,

Why are you so fixated on the negative possibilities?

Yes, it's possible that a cheating spouse could cheat again. Yes, it's possible that our MLCing spouses could come of out the tunnel and choose not to reconcile, either out of guilt or shame or having just moved on.

Do you think that these doubts don't occur to us? Do you think that our friends, co-workers, and family don't share similar insights with us?
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"Counting days won't buy us years" —Wings by HAERTS
"Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past."  —Lily Tomlin
"When we commit to our lovers, we implicitly promise to forgive them. There is no other way we can live with someone for better or worse or until death do us part." —Dr. Frederic Luskin
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#42: October 17, 2011, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: StillStanding on October 17, 2011, 08:07:05 PM
Anne,

Why are you so fixated on the negative possibilities?

Yes, it's possible that a cheating spouse could cheat again. Yes, it's possible that our MLCing spouses could come of out the tunnel and choose not to reconcile, either out of guilt or shame or having just moved on.

Do you think that these doubts don't occur to us? Do you think that our friends, co-workers, and family don't share similar insights with us?

Still, I'm not fixated on the negatives. I've explained that on a previous post.

Are most of you on this into year 6?...For what I've read many are into a few months, other 2, 3 years., some have deal with this for longer, but, mainly, people here are dealing with months to 3 maybe 4 years MLC. And most of you have contact with your spouse other than through court. I don't.

Things change. We change. I did not say he would cheat again, nor that a cheater always cheats again. I think that, if out of MLC he will not cheat again. I'm certain you all have  your doubts but, as more time passes, for me, the least the chances. I know all about the gift of time. It does wonders to us. It also makes us be very, very away from our spouse and marriage. At least it is what is making to me.

I have explained several times, divorced you can marry anyone, including remarring your spouse if you both choose so, separated from a man that is alive but from who you have become the widow does not alllow you to remarry nor build a life with someone else.

It comes to a point, at least that is what my journey showed me, where standing and keep hoping is having detrimental effects on my health. Until some time ago standing was fine but not anymore. Now not being divorced only makes me feel traped.

Also, you seem to forget that we are still in the middle of a second fault divorce process. It will take time to go through it, more time to digest it. More time to the end of the fog, let alone MLC. And all that without a clue of how it will turn out.

Plus, there are several financial reasons why it is no good for me to stay married. And, yes, I'm tired of the crisis. I'm very sorry if you all think I'm giving up, I'm not, just not keeping insisting and having a reality check. Otherwise it would be like our MLCErs, living in la la la land. My husband is nowhere near out of the fog. It may take him years. I'm too tired of this dragging and getting nowhere. It just drains me.

Again, what is valid for me and my husband may not be for others.

But, given that standing is for us (at least for me it is), if it comes to a point when it no longer makes me feel well, than,  what is the point?...In my case, nothing to do what family or friends say. They say nothing. Not encourage nor discourage, they just care if I'm doing well. Clearly, lately, I'm not.

Any suggestions, Still?

One more thing, I have established a time frame for staying married or be divorced, given that it is impossible to know how long the crisis will last. It has passed nearly a near since that time frame.
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« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 08:47:05 PM by AnneJ »
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#43: October 17, 2011, 08:48:18 PM
I have often wondered if H would be faithful to me if and when we reconcile?
But I also have to look back and realize what I did in the marriage to make him feel unwanted, unhappy and other things.
I realize it's more than that that brought on the MLC but I am not blaming H for everything. So in the end H has to forgive me for the nasty things I said and did and how I treated him before BD. So even though I didn't cheat I still hope he can forgive me cause I was definetely not a very good wife! So I can forgive H if he can forgive me!!!
I love him even through all the monster and lies and betrayal cause I know INSIDE is what counts and he has a wonderful heart and loves his kids so MLC isn't fun but I'm trying to see past all the MLC behavior and what is inside H.
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#44: October 17, 2011, 09:50:35 PM
Quote from: AnneJ on October 17, 2011, 08:40:33 PM
Still, I'm not fixated on the negatives. I've explained that on a previous post.

I don't agree. I've seen several times just in this thread alone where you respond to someone expressing hope or faith that things will work out for the better with negativity.

Quote from: AnneJ
Syn, what makes you think your husband will not cheat again? The regret and guilt? Do you think he will not cheat when those fade out?...

[...]

And the skills they get and learn with the lying and sneaking around. Also, they learn to overcome they fear, to let everything behind. If we and the marriage were not that important nothing elese is going to be.

[...]

Given that there are no way of knowing how our spouses will be when they come out of the crisis, in case they do, thenm, it makes no sense to stay married to them or hoping them to be back. They will not be the person we knew, we may not like them. So, why wait?

Quote from: AnneJ on October 17, 2011, 08:40:33 PM
I have explained several times, divorced you can marry anyone, including remarring your spouse if you both choose so, separated from a man that is alive but from who you have become the widow does not alllow you to remarry nor build a life with someone else.

It may be that some people have to go through a divorce and remarriage to recreate their relationship; if my wife ultimately chooses to divorce me, there is little I can do to prevent it. Some marriages are like houses that need some renovation done to them; a fresh coat of paint, new fixtures or furnishings. Others need the roof replaced, windows replaced, new insulation put in. Still others have collapsed completely and need to be rebuilt from the ground up. But none of those are the same thing as burning the house down.

Quote from: AnneJ on October 17, 2011, 08:40:33 PM
]
But, given that standing is for us (at least for me it is), if it comes to a point when it no longer makes me feel well, than,  what is the point?...In my case, nothing to do what family or friends say. They say nothing. Not encourage nor discourage, they just care if I'm doing well. Clearly, lately, I'm not.

Any suggestions, Still?

No. As much as I believe in the value of and the virtue in Standing, I do know that it's not for everyone--and that even if it was, some people can't muster the strength or patience to weather the storm.

I also think that some marriages should not be maintained; I have urged people to leave abusive spouses, and I've even helped a woman and her friends go to her house and collect her stuff from abusive soon-to-be ex-husband. One of my best friends' wives had her first husband turn on her on their wedding night; she lived in terror for years until she worked up the courage to escape and file for divorce. It took her years to get over that -- she told me it wasn't until she had been married to my friend for longer than she had been married to her first husband that she really believed that it was going to be okay.

I'm not familiar with all of the details of your situation, but I can see from your comments on this thread but much this has worn you down. If you need to be done with your marriage and away from your husband in order to heal, then it would be unfair of me to hold that against you.

But I also don't think that you are holding some great truth that the rest of us just aren't ready to accept yet. There are several people on this forum that have been at this as long as you, if not longer, and several of them are have renewed their relationships without getting divorced. Rollercoasterrider started this forum precisely to show people that it is possible for things to get better, no matter how dark it seems at times.
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Me: 45, Her: 40. Married 16 1/2 years, together(-ish) 20.
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Every day is another chance to get it right.
http://www.vachss.com/mission/behavior.html

"Counting days won't buy us years" —Wings by HAERTS
"Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past."  —Lily Tomlin
"When we commit to our lovers, we implicitly promise to forgive them. There is no other way we can live with someone for better or worse or until death do us part." —Dr. Frederic Luskin
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#45: October 17, 2011, 09:57:28 PM
Thank you for the hopeful and positive messages Learning and StillStanding.  That is what I come to this board for.  :)

Crazyforhim, I have also been looking a lot at myself and seeing where I need to change as well.  This has been a real learning experience.  I hope that at the end of this both H and myself are better healthier people who can come back together into a better healthier relationship together.
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« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 09:59:40 PM by WarriorPriestess »
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#46: October 17, 2011, 10:08:47 PM
Crazy...Well said.
I just have an extra thing thrown in to confuse my stand.  Narcissism.  Not just the MLC type but the Personality disorder type shown way before MLC. 

This is something I need to conmsider if I'm to ever accept H back.  That is, if he would even want to return, that is.
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#47: October 18, 2011, 04:47:33 AM
dont mean to hijack the thread but what exactly is narcissim behaviour. i also believe we learn so much about our selves on our journey. ive mad changes in the last year and am still doing so. i know almost a year on im completely happy with what i got in my life and have a list of to do things as i so want to keep on building my confidence again. i also love the fact that im laughing again. i never thought i would see that day. a lot can happen in a year. love this thread  ;D
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make the most of everyday. keep smiling and laughing. why because it makes us feel sooooo much better in ourselves :0)
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#48: October 18, 2011, 05:28:07 AM
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« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 05:30:06 AM by StillStanding »
Me: 45, Her: 40. Married 16 1/2 years, together(-ish) 20.
Status: BD 8/25/09, she moved out 8/28/10. No talk of D.

Every day is another chance to get it right.
http://www.vachss.com/mission/behavior.html

"Counting days won't buy us years" —Wings by HAERTS
"Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past."  —Lily Tomlin
"When we commit to our lovers, we implicitly promise to forgive them. There is no other way we can live with someone for better or worse or until death do us part." —Dr. Frederic Luskin
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Re: Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater?
#49: October 18, 2011, 05:41:23 AM
SS and Learning,

Excellent advice and a very good job at putting things in perspective (as always).  You're right that there is hope no matter how dark it may seem. 

Anne,  I for one understand that you are pretty much weathered out.  You've stood your ground for so long and now know that it's time to move on.  Everyone is different and I will be the last to fault you for wanting to move on with your life.  You obviously haven't given up on your H nor have you closed the door on the M, but your tactics are changing and I'm sure you know what is best for you.  I can see how some may have detected negativity in your posts, but alot of that can be attributed to your seeing the world differently than others do.  In most cases, there are no right or wrong answers to all of this.  You're not a bad person for being ready to move on and I admire you for staying in the game as long as you have (I can't imagine at this point).  Your H MAY not take years to come out of this as some seem to exit rather rapidly when it starts.  Who knows, if the D ever makes it to being final that may be what wakes him up.  Wouldn't that be ironic?
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One day at a time.

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