[wondering]

I think if you are constantly bashing the MLCer that it's not good but come on....I've been lied to, cheated on, basically been chewed up and spit out by my H. I think it would be abnormal not to have some sarcastic remarks now and then. This is the place to vent. I would not do it to my family, our friends or to him. I think most of us have compassion for the MLCer. If we didn't we wouldn't be here. We would just kick them to the curb and move on.

I hope people aren't bashing any other poster. I have seen disagreements but thought that is healthy and most seem to work themselves out. We are all so different yet brought together by a common tragedy. I hope we all continue to learn and grow stronger together.

[Freddygone]

I think this is a healthy debate because we can all see why someone would vent AND we can all see that the MLC is a variation of the person they once were. 
You know if we were strangers to them they would not do to us what they do.
It is because they know us so well that they hurt us and why in the long term they will remember back and understand how we felt (maybe a little bit).

I have never known such trauma as this was.
I have lost both parents, one in a not nice way when I was younger and that haunted me for 20 years, but this was worse. I think, (I know I haven't ever) but we are entitled to vent as is not really against our spouse but against the situation.
As Bon Bon said, if this was a physical ailment and there was something to see, we would have friends on our side, but because it is what it is, people think we are nuts.

I foolishly tried to explain to my wife's best friend and she just told me to get a grip and divorce her (because 20 years ago SHE divorced the love of her life) stupid woman. This is my wife's best friend. I don't even want to speak to her again. I think she is also one who is telling my wife she can't go back.
You do find out who your real friends are.

[With Gods Help!]

I too thought this was a place to vent...isn't it better doing it here rather than the actual MLCer.............all of us have gone through the most traumatic time of our lives...rather than hold any resentments that may come up later on to my MLCer i would rather do it now on this board......yes i throw him truth darts......but in the beginning if i had said half of what i say on here and other forums it would have him running for the hills and never looking back.........i believe that this site gave me hope and the strength to stand if i hadn't found it i would have been long gone........the anger would have prevented my stand instead coming here allowed me to get it out and see it for what it is.............i am sorry if any of my posts have upset you or anyone but its the only way of unloading for me without becoming bitter against my h ...i have learnt so much from this site/people that it enables me to stand in a more productive and healthy way  xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[StandandDeliver]

I must agree that I have not found there to be a lot of "bashing" on this site, people are generally respectful and thoughtful and genuinely concerned about each others pain, stress and sadness. You know, I was reading BonBon's description of compassion and I was interested because I too have always considered myself reasonably compassionate and empathetic, but I have struggled enormously with trying to feel genuine compassion and empathy for my H during his crisis. This is the person I loved more than anyone else on the planet, who I chose to be the father of my children, who I vowed to be faithful to forever, who I considered my best friend and who I spent all of my marriage trying to support to the best of my ability, and I have cycled through lots of different feelings and emotions in the last year, from overwhelming confusion, sadness, anger, pity for him but, during this time, I have searched within myself for the soft feeling of compassion that I have so often felt for others over the years and I just could not find it for my H. And I am still trying to analyse why I have felt so unable to maintain compassion - what personal failing in me just can't feel ongoing empathy for him?

We all come to this site imperfect and damaged in one way or another. For some, MLC is yet another trauma in a life marked by various losses, for others it is the first (and hopefully last) significant personal loss in their lives. We arrive with baggage, with cultural differences, with different stresses and, even on this predominantly Christian site, different religious beliefs and starting points. I think that it is remarkable that there is so much support and so little misunderstanding and judgement when you consider that array of considerations!!! I have to say, not to put to fine a point on it, that this site has been integral for me in retaining my faith in some universal truths about the human condition and the basic desire to be good to one another in most people.

[BonBon]

Thanks S&D,
Other than the fact we don't have kids, I could have written exactly what you wrote about your feelings for your H pre-MLC and now as well.

I think it will be interesting to find out down the road if that empathy ever kicks in for you and me and some others who've said the same.  Right now, I don't think it ever will for me.  I've just never bought that the way they chose to behave during MLC was something they had absolutely no control over or that it was an excuse for all the hurt.  In fact if I did think that, I might just have some of them committed...lol...kidding.

I have to agree that with all the diversity here, we all have such a strong bond of compassion for each other and understanding.  It's pretty amazing.

[jilly]

StandandDeliver

I totally agree with what you have said so eloquently.  Sometimes I really struggle with this idea that somehow these MLCer's cannot be held responsible for their actions.  In my case, I really feel that my XH abdicated responsibility for own his mental and emotional health and wreaked havoc on me and his children in the process.  Yet I am expected to take responsibility for picking up the pieces of the mess he has created.  Now I am feeling as if I am coming down with a cold.  I know I have to get a good nights sleep and to dose myself with Vitamin C - I can't afford to be sick - I have 3 kids who depend on me and a full-time job which I need to keep to pay the mortgage.  I would seriously like to "opt out" even for a few days.  But I won't because I have responsibilities, even more so because my children cannot rely on their father.  Who gave the MLCer's the right to opt out?

One of the (many!) things that my Xh has damaged with his behaviour is my somewhat naive view of life before BD.  That has been shattered not just my his behaviour, but the appalling treatment I have received from his family and from some so called "friends", as well as my faith in the legal system.  I know that I can never go back to that warm cocoon again. 

But the compassion and empathy  on this site has been amazing especially as you have said, S&D, given the wide disparity of views, cultures and faiths that we embrace.  Truly, this site has restored my faith in human nature.

Thanks you everyone,

Jilly

[LettingGo]

VENTING is not BASHING. You all are missing the point LBOHG is trying to remind us of....

I AGREE with her, there is a lot of snarky, controlling, opinionated "OPINION" cloaked in false "concern" and "caution" here. If you don't see it, consider yourself lucky... your day is coming. It is coming from a SELECT FEW that confuse "concern" with CONTROL and FIXING.

Please don't confuse "Agape Love" with doormat.... there is unjustifiable FEARMONGERING on this forum so that ANYONE conceding the MLCer might be off their rocker is STILL VEIWED as a doormat! There is definitely PRESSURE here to PUNISH the MLCer or be considered a doormat.

I have been the target of such "concern" and I don't give a flying F*** at this point, but I sure don't appreciate it... That's why I don't post any more... sorry.

By the way... there is still a LOT of good to be gained from the forum IF, you are not a "lightening rod" for certain members.... and IF, you censor YOURSELF and skip certain threads. Just my opinion, take it or leave it...

[Freddygone]

Hi Lettinggo,
I agree that Venting is not bashing, but I don't think we are completely missing the point.

There is some controlling and opinionated posts too, which I for one chose to simply step over.

But I don't think we should accept fearmongering or controlling. I simply filter those out.
Each stander has to make their own decisions and own their direction. The forum is to me something to absorb and filter to select my direction. I have never been good at doing what I am told to do.
There are some great examples of what works and what doesn't here. The rest of it I am not really interested in and I skip.

I still view this MLC as a bit of an illness, a diversion and feel sad that it happened, it was like being kicked out of a warm bed as a child. 
Maybe I had some contributing elements which in improving myself I can correct. My view is that we should NOT be against our spouses, but try and assist them in their new path to a comfortable life as long as it does not involve trampling on me or my daughters. They are my priority now. If my spouse wants to join later and fit in, then maybe that will be possible. Who knows? But I wont shut the door yet.

The forum gives me lots of resources to comfort me and know how to deal with confrontation and also to recognise statements from 'friends' which are controlling and simply ignore them. So I suppose I have seen these controlling statements and subconsciously I write off that contributor (sorry).

Also I have been through this process of retracting and having a think and not posting. But I came back with the view that my opinion is probably no better than another, but it is my experience and that is what we are all here for is to contribute, share and learn, good and bad and filter what we want.

I agree with everything LettingGo is saying, each individual here needs to be allowed to be their own person and make their own decisions.

[stayed]

   

So for me, as for all of us I believe, this forum is a life saver.    For people new to the forum it should be a place of welcome, practical support and understanding as they struggle through the terrible days/months after BD.

Unfortunately, and this is just my opinion, the post by Letting Go, is something that I hope no Newbie has to see in his/her first days on here.        If I had seen such an opinion on joining this forum I would not have continued to use it.      In fact I joined another forum and left because the members seemed to be at undermining each other under the guise of individual opinions or greater knowledge.       

I am actually saddened by the post from LG even though I accept that it is her right to voice her opinion in such a way on this forum. 

Well said CrazyStuff.  I too hope NEWBIES who read LG's comments are not put off from this wonderful forum. 

You see, I don't believe we have to AGREE to SUPPORT!  Simply saying what one wants to hear if you truly do not agree, is insincere and disingenuous, not to mention not very helpful.  I like to think we are all adults here and are able to pick and choose what is most helpful for our personal use.

Quote from BonBon

Dandy Lion, I wish I could say the same as you.  I wish I were just angry at the MLC but I do hold my H partially responsible.  Maybe it comes down to what each one of us decides is the true reason behind MLC.  I do believe there is a chemical aspect and an emotional aspect that may be difficult to control but I don't think it is impossible to control.  I had my own hormonal issues in the past during menopause but other than a snappy moment here and there, I didn't take it out on my spouse.  I am of the belief that since MLC is rarely found in cultures that honor and respect their aging, this is in part a cultural and societal issue that in my opinion, reflects how superficial and frankly, horribly and detrimentally spoiled so many in the West are.  And I think that is something that I have to believe my H could have realized, could have controlled.  So because I don't feel its ALL about chemical depression, I feel that my anger is justified.

BonBon, I too must be lacking in empathy and compassion, because I also STRUGGLE mightily with whether they is as little control over an MLCer's behaviour, as is often depicted here.  Like you, I thought I was a fairly compassionate, empathetic person, but with this situation I have been found sadly lacking.  Maybe it is because of all the other PEOPLE that were dragged into this.  How it affected our children, our lives in general. 

I also tend to believe this a PROSPEROUS societies AFFLICTION.  Just like anorexia, how many people in the Africa, make themselves throw up, so they can remain THIN.  Right NONE!  MLC, seems similar to me.  Oh look at all the pretty people, look how rich they are, look at all the fun they are having... I WANT THAT?     Maybe as you say, it is a lack of respect of AGE.  So many other cultures bow to their elders, where as in our culture we ignore them.  I don't know. 

I think we EVERYBODY benefits from DISCUSSIONS like this.  I honestly do not feel I have seen much MLC bashing whatsoever.  Hurt people venting about words/actions/inaction's that they have been subjected to due to MLC... sure.  But to me, that is NOT BASHING!

hugs Stayed

[LifeGoesOn]

on anger and venting.... this is just one study, more may be found by googling "venting anger".  Something to think about. Do we use "just venting" as a justification to bash? (I know I did/do) Does it help us?

Here is the abstract:

Does Venting Anger Feed or Extinguish the Flame?
Catharsis, Rumination, Distraction,
Anger, and Aggressive Responding
Brad J. Bushman
Iowa State University
Does distraction or rumination work better to diffuse anger?
Catharsis theory predicts that rumination works best, but empirical evidence is lacking. In this study, angered participants hit a
punching bag and thought about the person who had angered
them (rumination group) or thought about becoming physically
fit (distraction group). After hitting the punching bag, they
reported how angry they felt. Next, they were given the chance to
administer loud blasts of noise to the person who had angered
them. There also was a no punching bag control group. People in
the rumination group felt angrier than did people in the distraction or control groups. People in the rumination group were also
most aggressive, followed respectively by people in the distraction
and control groups. Rumination increased rather than
decreased anger and aggression. Doing nothing at all was more
effective than venting anger. These results directly contradict
catharsis theory.

And the link:

https://illinois.edu/lb/files/2009/03/26/9293.pdf