[Freddygone]

Just a brief aside here, still on subject, but a little distraction.

We established in an earlier part that this has been going on for centuries, in the Bible and in history, but seems more common now.
What we are debating is how much we understand (or not) whether we are assessing correctly (or not) whether we are showing empathy (or not).
How many women and men with this problem were burned at the stake in times gone by, or in fact even now in this modern age in far eastern or african countries, are stoned to death for this behaviour?

As we know and see, few people in society would be standers.

If the law in Western countries was not as it is, would there be brutal responses?

[Trustandlove]

I feel like jumping in here...

I did have my own crisis, not at midlife but much earlier on, in response to many stressful factors in my FOO.  Early enough that it could be attributed to youthful folly, but I know myself how much of a crisis it was, particularly in hindsight.  Deep depression was a part of it.  I didn't hurt a husband and children, but certainly did behave very, very badly to my parents, and to a certain extent other family members.   And I got involved with someone I shouldn't have.  Perhaps I hurt that person when I came out of it, I'm not really sure. 

So was it personal?  Well, not the same way that our spouse's MLC is against us, but yes, it was a sort of rebellion against my family.  Although at the time of course I didn't agree that it was.  I was just "choosing to live differently", claiming that I was very happy. 

I remember what it was like, that I was just pressing on ahead with the choices I had made, acknowledging those as choices, thinking that what I was doing was right.  I also remember the waking-up process....  to outsiders it looked like "one minute I was gone, the next I was back"; but of course it wasn't like that.    And coming out of it wasn't without it's stresses, either. 

That was now a long time ago, thankfully, and I know I have erased a lot of it (a good thing), but I do remember that all along there were people telling me that I was making a mistake, that I was heading down a wrong path, you name it.  I totally refused to listen, even laughed at it, all that.  And then I didn't want to come out of it because I didn't want the "I told you so" speeches. 

In the end I realised that I HAD been making a huge mistake, and decided to brave the "I told you so"s of which there turned out not to be any.....   And then, boy, did I move fast.   The whole process took over 5 years, btw....

And I HAD established a totally different life, which proved surprisingly easy to dismantle....  and went back to what was my "real" life, albeit of course with some changes.  But I was able to slip back in.  And yes, I went around apologising profusely to those I had hurt. 

Does that make me any kind of expert?  Of course not.  But it does give me some empathy, and does affect how I treat, or try to treat, my MLCer.  I do remember how I was treated while I was in it, and to this day am a bit distant with those who were very nasty.  And I particularly do remember those friends who tried to keep up with me despite also feeling that I was doing wrong. 

Yes, it was me making those choices at the time, but a lot did have to do with things that were going on in my family, they weren't without blame, even if they weren't directly responsible for my actions.  so that helps me see my own role in things now as well. 

Just wanted to say that....

[honour]

If the law in Western countries was not as it is, would there be brutal responses?

Yes, there would be brutal responses. The adultery part of the crisis occurs here in the west because it is "permitted". It is part of the culture. Books, movies, television, and celebrities in the news engage in it and it is called "affairs" or it is trivialised to the point where it is accepted as virtually the norm.

honour

[stayed]

Interesting T&L... very interesting.  I am sure it would give you a unique experience.  Can't decide whether I should be wishing I had screwed up my life, been able to put it back together again and then I would have a better understanding about this stuff.

Definitely food for thought T&L... thanks.

hugs Stayed

[stayed]

If the law in Western countries was not as it is, would there be brutal responses?

Yes, there would be brutal responses. The adultery part of the crisis occurs here in the west because it is "permitted". It is part of the culture. Books, movies, television, and celebrities in the news engage in it and it is called "affairs" or it is trivialised to the point where it is accepted as virtually the norm.

honour

You are so right honour, my h actually said to me as he walked out the door.... "this is what people do Stayed... there is always ANOTHER PERSON... grow up!"  and he left.

Stayed

[Freddygone]

Sometimes it makes you wonder if these guys in the East have a point about Western way of life. There are extremes I know, but I think you can have excitement in a marriage without going outside it, for what?

I have learnt so much, changed so much, and feel so much better.
Maybe I should not say it, but I think this crisis of my spouse has made me self examine, be a better, more tolerant person. Nothing is black or white to me.
My future may be financial damaged, but the future looks bright even if I am alone. Keep smiling. 

[StillStanding]

If the law in Western countries was not as it is, would there be brutal responses?

Yes, there would be brutal responses. The adultery part of the crisis occurs here in the west because it is "permitted". It is part of the culture. Books, movies, television, and celebrities in the news engage in it and it is called "affairs" or it is trivialised to the point where it is accepted as virtually the norm.

And yet, with all of those brutal responses in the past (and "honor killings" and the like in the present day), adultery still happened and still happens. Assaulting or killing people who cheat doesn't work as a deterrent; it's just a culturally-approved form of revenge.

It might also be worth considering that many cultures, past and present, arrange marriages or otherwise dictate who their children can marry. Marriage may seem less like a blessed covenant and more like a burden or a prison when you're married off to some guy twice your age, or to some woman you've never met.

[Synicca]

HB

I will say this: I knew the outcome from the beginning, Stayed; YET, throughout all the time I was walking through this trial, I was prepared for EVERY possibility that COULD happen, regardless of what I "knew".    My husband could have decided at ANY time to walk away;(he had that kind of power, but SO DID I) and in spite of learning that aspect, I still chose to stand; whether I looked like an idiot or not.

This is how I have always seen my M with Honey...I always knew where it would end. But, Like you I have a choice whether I want that end to happen. I have never doubted that we would be married and together. But the pressures of the crisis cause me to end my stand on a continual basis, because Its emotionally draining.

I have though reached a end to MY enabling of HIS crisis and had a very nice discussion about MY bounderies.
and so far Honey has complied and respected them.

Funny, is one boundery was No more talks about HIS R with OW..and he started to slip lastnight telling me he's not happy and then he said "oops, so how about that heat on your toes" (we were in the car heading to the store) LOL!

[honour]

And yet, with all of those brutal responses in the past (and "honor killings" and the like in the present day), adultery still happened and still happens. Assaulting or killing people who cheat doesn't work as a deterrent; it's just a culturally-approved form of revenge.

It might also be worth considering that many cultures, past and present, arrange marriages or otherwise dictate who their children can marry. Marriage may seem less like a blessed covenant and more like a burden or a prison when you're married off to some guy twice your age, or to some woman you've never met.

I agree. But in the west, culture tends the other way: adultery is romanticised. People who haven't been through this can't understand our pain because, "its just the way life is, get on with it" because they have been conditioned to have a softened view of it. Which is why we are all here huddling together for support.

honour

[OldPilot]

Well maybe in an arranged marriage people learn how to love each other without the "LOVE HORMONES",
but because of respect, trust and communication.

Maybe they have a more solid foundation than those of us that were just in it for "LOVE".