[paradigmshift]

Then again:

I was a relationship virgin when I met my MLCer and was extremely jealous and possessive. I did the no looking at other women/no connecting with exes/ punish him for any perceived transgressions thingy etc. 10 years later, I do not look at his emails/check his hp, or even ask him where he goes or whom he meets, unless we already have plans or I'm cooking dinner and there are any last minute changes. He tells me about the $hit that he surfs and I'm like okay you are old enough to know what you're doing. When his head rotates 180 degrees to look at some young chick walking by, I just make a remark to let him know I noticed it and then leave it at that.

What I am trying to say is, a person can change over time/as the relationship progresses. The OW might be able to take his $hit for however long he needs to travel through the tunnel, and as he comes out of his crisis, she might have matured into a different person. Therefore, do not hold your breath or obsess over their relationship. There are just too many factors beyond our control. Focus instead on you and what you want to achieve in life that is within your control. I don't know about you but I want a husband who returns because he loves me, and not because the ow was not the greener pasture he expected.

[Songanddance]

songanddance your Hs ow sounds awful! What a thing to say "I wish I had never adopted her" WOah! And her possessiveness is creepy, did it feel quite good to hear that information though?

Yes it did because it validated what I already believed.

OW wrote me a letter three weeks after BD. If ever anyone was in doubt about OW - read the summary of this letter which I posted on my 4th thread.


“Dear S&D
I realise that a lot has been said and written (meaning she has read H’s BD letter to me)
And I felt that it was time that I should write things from my perspective. You are under no obligation to read it but I wanted…. to cover the points in a rational manner and in a way that you could digest them at a pace you are happy with.

I would first of all like to say that I never set out to have any feelings for H ….but I am unable to ignore the force that has put us together and forged a union that has taken me completely by surprise.

I did not set out to hurt anybody and have not asked anything of H that he has not willingly given… I will support him in the situation that he needs to be in to be able to be at peace with himself whether that is with me or you………(long info about her finance and current H and her medical issues…)

……Family is one of the most important things to me and I am always the one to provide, my H and I agreed early on that we would not stay together for the sake of the children and I believe that you should stay in a marriage because you want to be with the other person…….you have to be someone that the other person wants to be with… it is not an automatic right because you have made vows…

I have always been quite private and found attention difficult……. In your H I have found someone where I am completely able to be myself…. He brings out the best in me and we are very positive together….. As much as it hurts me for my family to be broken like this…..

(she then expands on how “private” she is….and how she is leaving her H because he doesn’t want to join her “journey” of self discovery)
He is aware that his decision is a major flaw…. As much as he may wish to be he is not the right companion for me at this stage…I very much hope that I can continue my journey with H(mine)

I do not want you to think that I have taken these steps lightly or without a lot of soul searching… It is inevitable that people will be hurt but is it right (now paraphrasing because her sentence is far too long) for l  one to sacrifice his (ie my H) happiness simply out of duty – it is very selfish of the other (ie ME S&D) to expect that.

If you would like to meet to discuss this then I am happy to do so.. I’m sorry if you feel that I have intruded but I am …. A helpful person and care deeply for others often to my own detriment.

I do not ask anything for me…..but I do ask this for H as it is tearing him apart and I will support him with whatever he needs.


Enough said about affair down.

[toughtimes]

S&D, thanks for posting that, one word comes to mind ... DELUSIONAL ... she sounds like a whiny, teenage midlife crisiser! Well that has helped me, it shows how immature the ow is, it sort of sounds like the kind of things my H said at BD "just because we are married doesn't mean I have to stay with you and be unhappy." So, take this letter and contrast with a possessive, controlling woman who doesn't like to see her man talking to his friend of 30 years! What a load of rubbish.
I have always suspected that my Hs ow is whispering in my Hs ear, making me out to be even worse than even he says I am (Hs BF telling me that she was banging on about how unreasonable I have been suggests this don't you think?). This is what I sense from this letter you received. How old was she when she wrote this? She sounds so young and annoying, she thinks she sounds rational and heartfelt but she sounds like a naive girl idealising love ... love and Rs are brutal, they take work and commitment, they swoop between highs and lows. Our MLCers regressed back to that teen attitude that true love is an indescribable force that cannot be withstood. My H said to me when he left "I want to know what it feels like to be in love" ... ouch! 

[paradigmshift]

That doesn't sound like a woman who believes in forever. You just have to wait for her to reach her next stage where your H will no longer be compatible with her new self.

Why are you even keeping that letter. Just toss that rubbish in the bin.

[hawk]

When the First BD with the exow and the divorce happened.
He was pushing for the D's to meet her.

My youngest replied " Sure..I'd like to meet her so I can kick her ass for her"
To which the ex replied " Awww it isn't all her fault"

For me the blame rest squarely on the cheating spouse. If they don't have enough character to resist whatever it is they think these OP have or can offer. To the point that they destroy their own families.

Who needs them?

l like your youngest init , but gotta agree with you .
Once l was drinking with a bunch of blokes and all this came up.
And it was hands down and if a h or w is putting it out , then they are to blame.
Because there is always someone round willing to pick up the pieces or simply looking for a mate but that's when it's up to us or our supposed other halves to say no thanks, we'll work it out.
The guys all agreed you can't really blame an outsider if they are only seeing what is put in front of them and tbh , l go with that too.

My w told him God knows what ! Not that l'll be giving him any medals that's for damn sure, have even be tempted to accidentally swerve and oops, l just ran over om, damn.
But all she had to do is say no thanks, l'm married and have a family, l'm going home.

[hawk]

songanddance your Hs ow sounds awful! What a thing to say "I wish I had never adopted her" WOah! And her possessiveness is creepy, did it feel quite good to hear that information though?

Yes it did because it validated what I already believed.

OW wrote me a letter three weeks after BD. If ever anyone was in doubt about OW - read the summary of this letter which I posted on my 4th thread.


“Dear S&D
I realise that a lot has been said and written (meaning she has read H’s BD letter to me)
And I felt that it was time that I should write things from my perspective. You are under no obligation to read it but I wanted…. to cover the points in a rational manner and in a way that you could digest them at a pace you are happy with.

I would first of all like to say that I never set out to have any feelings for H ….but I am unable to ignore the force that has put us together and forged a union that has taken me completely by surprise.

I did not set out to hurt anybody and have not asked anything of H that he has not willingly given… I will support him in the situation that he needs to be in to be able to be at peace with himself whether that is with me or you………(long info about her finance and current H and her medical issues…)

……Family is one of the most important things to me and I am always the one to provide, my H and I agreed early on that we would not stay together for the sake of the children and I believe that you should stay in a marriage because you want to be with the other person…….you have to be someone that the other person wants to be with… it is not an automatic right because you have made vows…

I have always been quite private and found attention difficult……. In your H I have found someone where I am completely able to be myself…. He brings out the best in me and we are very positive together….. As much as it hurts me for my family to be broken like this…..

(she then expands on how “private” she is….and how she is leaving her H because he doesn’t want to join her “journey” of self discovery)
He is aware that his decision is a major flaw…. As much as he may wish to be he is not the right companion for me at this stage…I very much hope that I can continue my journey with H(mine)

I do not want you to think that I have taken these steps lightly or without a lot of soul searching… It is inevitable that people will be hurt but is it right (now paraphrasing because her sentence is far too long) for l  one to sacrifice his (ie my H) happiness simply out of duty – it is very selfish of the other (ie ME S&D) to expect that.

If you would like to meet to discuss this then I am happy to do so.. I’m sorry if you feel that I have intruded but I am …. A helpful person and care deeply for others often to my own detriment.

I do not ask anything for me…..but I do ask this for H as it is tearing him apart and I will support him with whatever he needs.


Enough said about affair down.

l just wanna accidentally run over her after l finish throwing up.
l especially like the line about her and h agreeing they will never stay just for the kids, only kids after all, right!
And l wonder when that was anyway,20 yrs ago.

[in it]

Well Hawk I don't expect any accolades for this.

When I was 36 a man whom I thought was the love of my life once again made contact with me.

His first words were: Are you happy?
Uhmmm well no.

I was about 8 months pregnant with my second child..the ex was perusing a career in something I knew he would only be doing for a paycheck and attending school.

I agree to see him. He drove 600 miles to see me. We spent some time together. For me it wasn't about sex ( as there was none as he was a full blown alcoholic and had ruined his body) It was about how I FELT when I was with him.

That changed the second time I saw him. He was drinking vodka straight out of the bottle at 7AM.

I realized at that very second I was not going to sacrifice the family for him. I wasn't going back to where he came from with him and take the kids and I wasn't going to divorce the ex and have a relationship with him or move him into the house.

After it was over (I ended it 6 months later) I CLOSED a door I had needed to since I was 16 when I first met him. Most of the relationship was fueled by my guilt.


The ex found out after the fact and left the house (and to be honest didn't want him either but he hounded me so relentlessly I gave in)

That's what started me accounting for every place I went, who I saw, and what I did for the next 18 years or so. But that wasn't enough. He still threw that in my face any chance he got.

So I guess this was payback for that.

[Medusa]

I believe I also just witnessed possessive infatuation at my MILs funeral. OW is in her late 40s, and my take-away after the funeral was that she might as well have just lifted her leg and led on him the way she was behaving.

possessive in-fatuation has a tendency to bring out the worst when the recipient resists or has a spouse or others in the circle of influence who are resistant.

This is what I believe I witnessed in its full glory. She met S21 for the first time at his grandmother's visitation. The man didn't introduce them; she had to introduce herself. She had to know I would be there. She saw my SIL embrace me--a real embrace. She saw her boyfriend and his wife hug. It we a hug of compassion only. But she couldn't know that. And she saw the family accept me. She probably overheard various family members telling me the door was not closed in our relationship.

And so through her behavior, she basically peed on him.

I have always suspected that my Hs ow is whispering in my Hs ear, making me out to be even worse than even he says I am

I think many of us believe this. Shortly after mine moved out, I politely requested that he stop listening to others who tell him my motivations, especially others who have never met me. His response was a flash of guilt then the MLC stare. But not once since have I been told what my motivations are.

Of course they would do something like this. They know the relationship is based on lies. In my sitch, as I am processing everything that happened at MILs funeral, I am beginning to wonder just how solid their relationship could be after 2.5 years.

[Songanddance]

Why are you even keeping that letter. Just toss that rubbish in the bin.

Very simple Paradigm.   When H comes out of the tunnel (whether we are together or not) - when he hits remorse and apologises, when we have that conversation - I will make him read it and then let him have it with both barrels.

I have been remarkably restrained (for the majority of the 2.5 years)  and immeasurably polite, bright and breezy with him. Showing him that letter will help ensure that I make him and keep him accountable for everything he has done.  Stayed says that whether in reconciliation or not - the LBS must hold the MLCer's feet to the fire and not let them think that because it is in the past it is done with. 
This is my way of dealing with that part of the catharsis. 

I will only burn it when I believe that H is fully aware of what he has done and is hurting for doing so!  This is not anger - this will be karma!

[OffRoad]

l like your youngest init , but gotta agree with you .
Once l was drinking with a bunch of blokes and all this came up.
And it was hands down and if a h or w is putting it out , then they are to blame.
Because there is always someone round willing to pick up the pieces or simply looking for a mate but that's when it's up to us or our supposed other halves to say no thanks, we'll work it out.
The guys all agreed you can't really blame an outsider if they are only seeing what is put in front of them and tbh , l go with that too.

My w told him God knows what ! Not that l'll be giving him any medals that's for damn sure, have even be tempted to accidentally swerve and oops, l just ran over om, damn.
But all she had to do is say no thanks, l'm married and have a family, l'm going home.

Song for this thought...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go7gn6dugu0