[Dr. NO]

Thanks OP.  This was very revealing and useful.  Please post more.  Dr. NO

[FindingJoJo]

Thank you for posting this.  I have been doing a lot of soul searching lately, and have been coming to the realization that I need to be someone that BF will feel safe and comfortable coming home to.  If I continue to harbor anger, we will never be any closer to reconciliation.  In actuality I am not angry at him.  I am angry at the choices he made, but what happened has happened.  I can't change it.  But I can change my attitudes about the situation.  Ultimately I want him back in my life.  Don't get me wrong....there is a lot of work he would have to do.  But I can and will meet him in a common place where we can both rebuild our relationship is that is what is meant to be.  I know there are two sides to every story, and I can only know my side with certainty.  Hopefully one day BF will be able to share his side as well.

I have been thinking along the same lines. For me I have turned more to the Lord, don't know if that is your thing or not but it has helped me.  I have also been reading a great book Conflict Free Living and it has exercises in it that you can reflect and apply to your situation.  In doing those exercises I realized my part in our marriage and I am a bit more humble.  I don't own his behavior but I am talking about my own and that I can change.  I also have read co-dependency no more and it helped to open my eyes too.  With all that basically choose your path that suites your lifestyle and you will feel it is right.  I am trying to be more than I am, but true to myself because we were living a stagnant existence and one thing I do know is without this I would have been content, not truly happy, but content.  Now I am learning what would make me happy and it wasn't the life we were living.....lol.  Of course I was also dealing with him and his issues and ignoring myself.

[Dontgiveup]

I would like to thank you as well for posting this Old Pilot.  This posting is one of the better I've seen in regard to what I experienced with my female MLCer.  This is good stuff.  I made a few comments below based on what I have experienced with my MLCer, and some of the things that RCR and/or Conway wrote that I found to be excellent insight.

What I'm wondering, is how cognitive is an MLCer to what they are experiencing?
Not much. It is mass confusion, fueled by anger that runs so deep it never seems to be far away. The term "hairpin trigger" comes to mind... MLCers can be vicious on a good day. Anger is the root, confusion is what we will never in hell admit to, exhaustion is what eventually derails us and we find ourselves looking back at the destruction caused by our own hand.

From RCR's Midlife Crisis Overview article
Midlifers are not always aware of their actions. There is an awareness within each moment, but a global absence of awareness; this only becomes clear later. Driven by emotions, Midlifers are moment and self focused and often unable to link consequences and understand the relation of their behaviour to the external world. Their memory becomes fuzzy; though they may be aware of their actions during each present moment, in clarity they may not recall what takes place during fog and vice versa.
 
Large chunks of time are holistically blank. There may be a memory of certain events within those chunks, but the external relation to the world is lost. Events are not linked solidly to other things and thus may have no chronological placement. Time is a tangled string that rather than linear.


It is almost impossible for me to comprehend that they don't see any of it, none at all?
See what exactly? We know we're b*tches from hell but what we DON'T fully comprehend is WHY. It takes a long time for that to begin to come clear. MLC is rooted in unresolved issues, aging and thinking about possible things we might have missed out on, thoughts of 'what I might be able to do if I left this bullsh*t behind...after all, I'm only getting older'... it is rooted in the mundane things we do everyday and no one notices anymore. We might have woken up and realized we have no identity other than "wife and mother" and everything inside us starts screaming PAY ATTENTION TO ME. You most likely don't see much of that internal stuff until it overflows in the form of anger that has you looking at us like our heads just spun around on our shoulders because you asked if, while we're out, we can pick you up something at the store (or something equally stupid). So there it is. The anger and confusion that has festered is now fullblown MLC and you're about to start sleeping with one eye open for however long you stay under the same roof.

I think this is an excellent description of the unresolved issues and identity crisis that is MLC.  Also the anger and even some paranoia that MLCers can experience.  I believe what the MLCer wrote above is very consistent with what RCR and Conway wrote.


When my wife spews her rage, vitriol and makes horrible comments to me (I wish you were dead. Then my problems would be over) she just HAS to know what she is saying is so wrong, you just don't say that to anyone.
Agreed. That is excessively hateful. But I will admit to you that although I never said it, God forgive me, I THOUGHT things like that when I was in MLC. And I KNOW that even having not said the words outloud, my EVERY action conveyed that thought to my husband regularly.

This made me recall something my MLCer said that I hadn't thought about in a long time.  Right around the time of bomb drop, my MLCer and I met with our pastor and his wife.  The thing my MLCer said to our pastor that stunned me the most was "I have wished either I or DGU would die in a car accident or something".  I don't think any of us realized the depression that was behind that statement.  On top of that, my MLCer used the word "hopeless" quite often in the days and weeks after bomb drop. 

One family friend contacted me and said she could tell from my MLCers posts on facebook that depression had set in.  By that time, I had met with a counselor that I personally know and he told me that he thought it was midlife crisis.


Also, if MLC really started long before I saw the signs, is there any way to determine that?
I know what you're doing. You want to construct a timeline to give yourself some reasonable idea as to how far she is into this thing. PLEASE do yourself a favor, SCREW THE TIMELINE IDEA.

I think there is some wisdom behind this recommendation.  I think there is validity in what we know about the time frame, but many LBS expect (or maybe hope) their MLCers is on the short side of the time frame reference.


I know that two years ago, I got the first "I need some space to sort this out" line, and that was six months after he mother passed away. Then, a month or two later she had her fling, big shopping sprees, her own illnesses (major migraines, seizures, hospitalized three times). It was a rocky road for us since then until the bomb on Christmas Eve '06. Did her MLC timeline begin two years ago?

My MLCer also told me at one time she needed space.  Then she continued her Boomerang behavior.


My wife was all those things you describe; appeared happy (as much as she could be), great mother, pretty good wife, co-existing and working towards common goals. Is the death of her mother (a wound not yet healed) the "something" that happened?
 It could definitely be the trigger that got her looking at her life and realizing her dissatisfaction, which by the way, has ALWAYS been a part of her so don't let yourself think it's your fault.
 Did our not-always-so-great relationship between then and "I need some space" act as a trigger, the "thing in her mind"?
Again, mom's death probably kicked off the mental aspect. Until the day she had that talk with you though, it was an internal thing only, I suspect. But in that time, her mind worked her over. By the time she voiced those things to you, she was in MLC, if that is indeed the conclusion you have rightfully come to.

Conway writes about how the doubt and anxiety that is MLC builds slowly beneath the surface.  Death of a parent can be a common trigger.

Here is RCR's blog "What is Bomb Drop?" that describes the MLCer revealing to the LBS what they are feeling.
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?paged=52


And she doesn't think she is happy, she KNOWS.
So did I.

From RCR's article Back Forward Limbo Repeat
Now, in the darkness, he seems even more certain he hates you, more consistent. He is gone without Hope of returning. He doesn't want to return. In this place of Perpetual Darkness he knows he made the right decision.  The Dark period can be very long.


At least that is what she is telling me and the kids (and anyone else that will listen). She tells me she hates me (that hurts bad) and does believe our marriage has held her back not only from happiness, but of finding her "soul mate" (oh puke).

I did not hear the words "soul mate" from my MLCer, but my friend did.


Was it gradual, or just a sudden slap in the face, an epiphany?
It was gradual and yet very dramatic. I had begun to work at a law firm where one of the attorneys represented children often involved in nasty custody battles and the other attorney practiced mostly bankruptcy law. Between the kids, which tore me apart, and one particular couple that was filing for bankruptcy and yet exhibited SUCH AMAZING DEVOTION to one another, my eyes began to open to the state of my own family. Another HUGE thing that occured was I ended up one day on the scene of a motorcycle accident in which the man laid in the ditch and died with me sitting there beside him. There were other very significant things that occured over a period of months but when I fully awoke, it put me literally on my face in devastation. I could not endure the pain of the realization of what I had done, the role I had played in the destruction of my family. I could not hardly breathe having the knowledge of what I'd done to a man that had loved me, not perfectly, but so utterly completely. Coming OUT of MLC would have surely been the death of me had it not been for the grace of God. The guilt, shame and horror were SOOOOO oppressive...

From RCR's article Touch and Goes and Reconnection
Touch-n-Goes are about testing, information fishing, putting out feelers and reassurance. The MLCer feels guilty and ashamed for causing you pain. Will you accept him, be kind and friendly even though he was not that way to you? They are testing both your forgiveness and acceptance and the integration of the two. Accepting the process of the crisis is different than accepting a person as they are now with their history of mistreatment.

From Conway's book "Women in Midlife Crisis"
"After many of the values are sorted out and realigned, there is a gradual coming-down from anxiety and a return, surprisingly enough, to life structures quite similar to the previous ones, only now more refined and effective."

[/color]


Edited by OldPilot for carriage returns and bold and readability 6/9/2012
This was originally posted on 6/3/2007

[SavingGrace]

Thanks OP for posting both of Amy's postings.

I must say they are a fascinating read into the mind of a MLCer. To be frank, it actually doesn't provide me any more hope reading them, unfortunately. Maybe I am in denial? I don't know. All I know is I am not one to want to know where my H is on his MLC journey. I don't really want to know what is rattling in his head at the current moment or when he will go deeper in the tunnel or if he is there yet. I don't want to know what motivates him at the present moment. I am living these very specific realities in my life as they manifest themselves and play themselves out in real life. I see his violent abusive temper; his obsession with firearms; his consideration of suicide; his lust after a sick and perverse young woman; his volatile hatred and contempt towards me and his chaos and confusion of our love and M. I don't have any desire to delve into his mind and try and figure out where he is on a timeline or where he will be months down the road from now or where he was a year ago. Frankly all of this scares the daylight out of me. I am sure it must for him too. I have come to the realization that even if I knew ALL of it -- the timeline, the reasons why he is doing what he is doing, or the motivations behind it, it wouldn't change a thing. He would still do everything he is doing. I couldn't stop him. If he ever makes it through this crisis and returns to me a broken and humble man, I would be ready and willing to listen. Today, no. I have no desire or use for the musings of his mind. My life is the living reality of it all. It is more than enough for me to just keep up with coping with his MLC life and making a new life for my own.

This is not to say that reading Amy's postings do not help me understand the overall picture of MLC and embrace the process. I just can't be particularly bothered with trying to narrowly focus on my H's MLC and determine what, when, why and what if.... I know I must sound harsh and unloving and I apologize to those who interpret my approach to my spouse in this manner. However, this is his crisis and no matter what I know or what I do, there is nothing I can do to change it. It's best for me to embrace where he is and try to make my life better without trying to dissect his life in the process.

SavingGrace

[Anjae]

Thanks OP. I still think there is a lot of chemical imbalance in the picture. There is depression and much of what AmyC rights about can be said of depression or a few other mental issues. So, medicines to calm their minds down may smooth the whole thing.

Stil, I think this is also right” MLC is rooted in unresolved issues, aging and thinking about possible things we might have missed out on, thoughts of 'what I might be able to do if I left this bullsh*t behind...after all, I'm only getting older'... it is rooted in the mundane things we do everyday and no one notices anymore. We might have woken up and realized we have no identity other than "wife and mother" and everything inside us starts screaming PAY ATTENTION TO ME.”, specially the part of thinking what they may be doing if  they leave it all behind and the feeling no one pays attention to them, even if lots of people do.

The need for attention, lots and lots of attention is pretty much what happens in Replay. They get themselves into all sorts of loony things to make people notice them. Sadly, many need far more than 2 years and cause much more destruction than AmyC. But, bottom line, it is all in their head, they feel trapped, they think we don’t pay attention to them, that we don’t care for them anymore. They’re minds are altered. None of what they think is real

“Anger is the root, confusion is what we will never in hell admit to, exhaustion is what eventually derails us and we find ourselves looking back at the destruction caused by our own hand.” Agree but have to say they manage to make it last for ever and they seem to have a special ability to keep exhaustion from hitting them full blown.

Like any depressed person MLCers are not capable of hear us. Did you have tried to tell a deeply overt depression person that there is a beautiful day out there, that there is hope and lost of great things to do? If so, you know the answer. If not, the depressed person will say, I don’t want to do anything, nothing will ever change, I’m he way I am. Yet, with medicines the depressed person will change its point of view/mind.

It is still a mystery to me out they manage to last so long, given the lives they lead and the fact that they are getting older and older. I know how the whole process unfolds but I think they last to long. In his normal self my husband would have never lasted 6 months without crashing flat if he was depressed. And, if we are not there for them when they are out of the crisis I have no idea what they have gained with it all, except being older and forever regretting what they have done. Those are the things I have seen in the former MLCers I know whose LBS was not there for them. I don’t personally know any LBS who have waited for the MLCer. I’ve heart stories of people (apart the ones on this forum) who have, but those were mainly women from past decades, grandmothers of people I know, etc.

One other thing, we’re always talking about how we would not leave our spouses if they would get cancer or other serious disease. But there is a big difference, people with cancer or other diseases treat themselves. The treatment may not prevent them from die but they try it. MLCers do nothing to try to stop themselves and even run if help is offered. Essentially, it is like we are waiting for the drug addict to admit they are an addict, wants to stop being one and asks for help. Two totally different situations.

[Dr. NO]

AnneJ.

I repeatedly think simlar to what your wrote and then remind myself.. the name of the game is MLC.

This AmyC story did not give me hope, but it does tell me what I need to do.  It also confirmed my action bias rather than 'brooding mode' I was in (still I get into it once in a while, but less freqeuently and duration had gone down too).

I began taking long walk in woods after BD in order to forget it.  It won't leave me.  Now a days, walk help me big time forget my LBS/MLC situation and even when reality hits me (while still on the walk) I manage it more like a workplace problem to solve as opposed to say.....er... dealing with MLC W.

Dr. NO

[Thundarr]

So RCR or OP, how did Dadnotquitting's story end? 

[Dr. NO]

Thundarr,

I guess the  end of story is in the form of Quantum superposition .....the two outcomes probably in a state of Quantum probability cloud overlapping each other.

Like every other MLC- LBS story I guess.  Even after reconcilation.. who knows how it goes.. not enough data I suppose.

May be all the memember of HS and LT should report after 10 years.  We need study on MLC, similar to 30 year long Cornell- Oxford- China, The China study on Nutrition.

DR. NO.

[Dontgiveup]

My hope does not come from other people's situations.  When I look at a story like Amy's, I am looking for confirmation of the process, and what we know about MLC.

My hope comes from my belief system, the knowledge of what the core values of my MLCer were prior to MLC, and knowledge of the MLC process.

[Anjae]

True, Dr. No the name of the game is MLC.

DGU, AmyC story confirms what we already know about MLC and the process but it does not offer any new clue or solution.

All stories are the same: they have to do what they have to do and that is nothing we can do about it. One day they hit rock bottom, start to see the light and become very grateful we have been here, even if they have done the worst stuff on earth.

Knowing about MLC and the process and not looking for solutions is not good enough for me. Saying there is nothing we can do about it when one knows depression plays a major role on the whole thing, to me is like not wanting to go look for a way to minimize this whole thing.

Or maybe I’m just tired of this whole MLC thing… I know, it takes time but too much can really be too much…

I manage to do lots of non MLC related stuff however, since I remain married and are constantly reminded of it through court cases and debt notes, at times it becomes a little hard to forget I have a MLC husband and need a divorce very, very fast. Of course, since I want the divorce, no such luck.

How can we be sure the core believes of the MLCer have not been damaged? If their heads get too messed up, how do we know they are going to even be able to come down to earth in a functional state?

There are many former MLCers in the psychiatric hospital my friend works at. Both in outpatients as well as committed to the wards. Just not to mention the few in the graveyard. The ones in outpatients are the “less” serious cases. They’re ones who, when out of the tunnel, found they were on their own, had blow it all and some have even realised their minds were damaged for good. Some have previously been on the wards and are now on outpatients. The ones in the wards have tried to kill themselves and failed. Some may recover and become functional or semi-funcional, some never will. The ones in the graveyard are the ones who tried to kill themselves and succeed.

I still think for all those MLCers the price to become a better person was too high to pay. Let alone it could had been, if not avoid, at least minimize.

And now you ask why they were not on treatment before? Because, like many other people with psychiatric disorders, they see nothing wrong with them, they don’t look for help and it is usually only when they feel absolutely and totally depressed or try to kill themselves that they end up on the psychiatric hospital.

Of course I’m aware that rejection from the LBS will add to the possibility of having an MLCer trying to kill themselves. When they are on the bottom, try to get in touch with the LBS (it does not make a difference it the LBS has remarried, they will still try to get in touch) and find the LBS is not interested it may be too much for them to handle. At that point they really feel they have lost it all, see no hope for themselves and try to put an end to their lives.