[FindingJoJo]

One thing that helped me understand forgiveness was for me was the book let it go by td jakes.  In it he explained that harboring anger, bitterness and other negative emotions really didn't affect the offender they truly only harm us.  These feelings keep us in chains and we can't move beyond or where we need to because if the chains we have placed on ourselves. 

When the person who has hurt us wants to return back in our lives we are more free to allow that when we have forgiven.  It is okay to say you were hurt by that person while still forgiving them.   When they want back in our lives it is easier to work with them on gaining trust back when we have freed ourselves from the negative chains that once bound us. 

I agree forgiveness and trusting are separate but you can't work towards trust if you can't forgive.

[stayed]

Look, I am not arguing about Forgiveness... I get it... I really do.  The question here was when to give it. 

This comment in particular is what started all this...

Quote from: BirdSoul on December 20, 2012, 07:33:51 PM

I think they would need to be sure that they would be forgiven and are still loved before they would be willing to even consider coming back.

She is saying that the MLCer would need to know this.  I personally do not think that is something anybody can 100% positively guarantee.  I have stated my reasons, it has nothing to do with not understanding what forgiveness is... or how to do so. 

I am being honest with you here.  I am not a religious person, that being said, I have my beliefs.  I thought forgiveness and love was something I could do VERY EASILY... much to my surprise, I found it was not simply a case of MIND over matter... or religious beliefs. 

It's not easy to forgive somebody who has no desire to admit to wrongdoing.  Or admit to how much hurt, grief and pain they have caused.  Now, if you people can do it... unconditionally... well then great!  Lucky you! 

Much to my surprise and chagrin I might add, I found that there is forgiveness and then there is FORGIVENESS... so please, no more lectures.

Hugs Stayed

[FindingJoJo]

I don't think anyone was lecturing you stayed.  The question was when to forgive and information was offered and opinions given about the difference between trusting and forgiveness.  Rather than say when it should occur more food for thoughts were thrown in.  Ultimately each person is different and religious or not if someone can't get over the anger and that drives their actions forgiveness isn't even in the equation. 

Since when did providing alternative opinions or other resouces that may help become a lecture?  We cànt give timelines on when a person should or should not do something but like you and your example in your circumstances the other information provided was just that more information that helped us to understand it, it was not a lecture to you or anyone.  No one mentioned religion or anything on that here, so why shut information flow down.  My post was about what helped me to understand and what helped me to determine when I chose to forgive, it wasn't a lecture to you and it didn't mention my religious views either.  So I wonder why the slap on the hands?

[primwluv]

.

She is saying that the MLCer would need to know this.  I personally do not think that is something anybody can 100% positively guarantee.  I have stated my reasons, it has nothing to do with not understanding what forgiveness is... or how to do so. 

I am being honest with you here.  I am not a religious person, that being said, I have my beliefs.  I thought forgiveness and love was something I could do VERY EASILY... much to my surprise, I found it was not simply a case of MIND over matter... or religious beliefs. 

It's not easy to forgive somebody who has no desire to admit to wrongdoing.  Or admit to how much hurt, grief and pain they have caused.  Now, if you people can do it... unconditionally... well then great!  Lucky you! 

Much to my surprise and chagrin I might add, I found that there is forgiveness and then there is FORGIVENESS... so please, no more lectures.

Hugs Stayed

Forgiveness is hard...and also unpredictiable...I always said that if H ever cheated on me I would hunt him down and then her...lol..I knew (I thought) that I just couldn't forgive that...H did admit to his affair to me straightout and I was mad...I screamed and melted and well, it was bad..but as soon as I stopped and did some praying and thinking I realized I forgave him...not sure how I did that and how I felt so at peace with my forgivness but I did....Not at all what I thought I would feel...so I think everyone is different...

[primwluv]

oops...I am really not getting how to do the quote thing..lol..not sure why..lol

[Still Kicking]

Sorry--I  wasn't trying to lecture but just express my point of view and how I cope.  Just as you are explaining yours.  Different things work for different people. 

Just to clarify and not to lecture--in my definition forgiveness is no guarantee of future results as they say.  It just opens the door.   A person can both forgive and decide it isn't going to work with the other person at the same time, even.   It also doesn't make one person superior over another.  It just has made some feel better about their own lives and more able to cope so they share that.

[FindingJoJo]

oops...I am really not getting how to do the quote thing..lol..not sure why..lol

That is so cute though and a needed breath of fresh air

[OldPilot]

oops...I am really not getting how to do the quote thing..lol..not sure why..lol

That is so cute though and a needed breath of fresh air

I fixed your quote - all that was wrong was you had an extra  / in your first quote.

Read this it might help.

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2252.0

[JAG]

To me it isn't about forgiving the infidelity.  I think that the issue is forgiving all that the MLCers says and does to us that is the hardest to forgive...why? because of exactly this:

It's not easy to forgive somebody who has no desire to admit to wrongdoing.  Or admit to how much hurt, grief and pain they have caused.

[FindingJoJo]

To me it isn't about forgiving the infidelity.  I think that the issue is forgiving all that the MLCers says and does to us that is the hardest to forgive...why? because of exactly this:

It's not easy to forgive somebody who has no desire to admit to wrongdoing.  Or admit to how much hurt, grief and pain they have caused.

That is true, as I think about this I can forgive because that is for me.  I worry if I can ever trust again.  I definitely don't trust anything my H says or does.  I know I will struggle mightily with that one but at least it is moot right now since we aren't reconnecting and I am relieved in a way because I am not ready to deal on that level.  I think that makes it easier to have a mostly vanished H.  We talk but I don't have to see him.