[Medusa]

"There is such a difference btwn the mlcer and lbs."
Im not so sure this is completely accurate.

I agree, DJ. BD sends us into an emotional tailspin, and in many ways we are on a similar trajectory to rebuild ourselves and our lives, just as the MLCer is. The huge difference is that we are not escaping and avoiding--at least, not like they are. We tend to recognize the need to work on ourselves much sooner than the MLCer and, therefore, rebuild ourselves that much faster.

[FacePalm]

Regardless of being the MLCer or LBS we're all human and have to go through the stages of grief/loss:  Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance.  Looking back I can identify each of those stages.  Difference between MLCer and LBS is how we progress through the stages and how we manage them (turn outward vs turn inward). 

[Keep believing]

The key word is SURRENDER..  No matter what your infliction is. When this happens you give up the life you are pretending ..you finally admit your way is not working and you are desperate for help.  With mlcers they always seem to get that reassurance that keeps them from this.  I think that is were the ow comes into play.  An mlcer has to see the manipulation iin the op before hitting bottom.  I beleive the ow is the last thing that holds them up. Until they realize the ow is not what they want they keep going. Just my opinion .

[Thunder]

I believe surrendering to their hellish situation is very true.

The ow holding them up?  Not so sure about.  What about MLCer's who have no OP?  If that were the case they should by all rights come out of their crisis sooner.  But I don't see that to be true.

Maybe it's the fantasy life they hang on to.  Of course that life could include an OP.

[lawprofessor]

Speed,
Rock bottom is he!! for the person in Mlc.  Each person defines hell differently so with each their experience is different.  With my J, I found him crawling across the floor, crying, nearly unable to make it to the toilet to vimit the green bloody bile from his body.  He made a firm well thought out plan to kill himself at the beginning.  That was the beginning of his fall.  He had no where to run.  All avenues were cut off, all bridges burned.  Dying was a valid choice in his mind rather than turning around and facing himself.  Then came glimpses at the destruction.  Each glimpse came as he tried to get on his feet and crawl up, knocking him down again. Over and over.  Each piece came into focus slowly, inch by inch. He peered slowly up to see himself in a mirror and was so confused by what he saw.  A caricature of the man he thought he was.  That's when the throwing up started.  The sleeping.  The nightmares.  He wouldn't get out of bed.  He hid.  No showering.  Just ate a bit and slept only to be awakened shaking, sweating, confused, body aches, in pain. 

Eventually he sought medical help.  I suppose I was one of the lucky ones in that all questions were answered during that time as he would talk and talk.  But only as much as he could take at the time and only as long as I did not react emotionally.  A well placed question or two, lots of nodding, and saying umm hmm, I see and the like.  No helping.  No cushioning.

Some blow up their careers.  Some like J, continue on in their careers for various reasons.  J still made parts for NASA during this time.  He worked nights and so was alone much of the time.
He had no ow during the end, during the time really bad parts.  During one conversation he to told me, "I always knew she would be gone when the money was gone.". And she was.  Now years later when he is back on his feet she has tried to reconnect unsuccessfully.

Yes an op can hold things up.  An op can be a mother, a family a child,, a well meaning friend as well.  It can also be an addiction such as drugs, alcohol, work, whatever.

But in my opinion, the thing that is the surest bet to hold them up on this journey is their spouse standing in the way, trying to help or speed thing along, trying to control the outcome. 

LP

[Jaybeecee]

I think maybe the idea is more that OP distracts them rather than props them up.

No need to think about the destruction, the kids, the wife, the life left behind. The distraction helps them to not have to deal with the crushing depression they feel.  Hide behind OP and the "happiness" and they don't have to hit rock bottom. 

OP is not there to cushion the landing, but rather to prevent them from landing at all.

[Thunder]

I suppose there's some truth to that, Jay.

With my H work was his distraction.  He worked so much overtime, even would ask for more overtime.  He ran himself ragged working 60/70 hours a week.  Then he didn't have time to think.  He'd be so exhausted when he got home all he had time for was a meal and go to bed.

When I look back it really was crazy.  He works overtime now but NOTHING that isn't normal.

Sorry speed, looks like I railroaded your threat. 
Back to rock bottom.   

[BBhelp]

But in my opinion, the thing that is the surest bet to hold them up on this journey is their spouse standing in the way, trying to help or speed thing along, trying to control the outcome. 

AMEN to this!  Way too true to be missed by anyone!

[Velika]

But in my opinion, the thing that is the surest bet to hold them up on this journey is their spouse standing in the way, trying to help or speed thing along, trying to control the outcome. 

There was an interesting discussion about "no contact" on the forum. Would this be in line with "no contact"? Just removing yourself from the equation?

Thanks for an insightful discussion.


AMEN to this!  Way too true to be missed by anyone!

[lawprofessor]

Yes before this stage the op is there to prevent the fall.  Late in Replay she (he) becomes an instrument that helps bring it on in a weird way.  So many times the mlcer has become so weakened that the op has taken charge of so much.  She now has become so much more in control.  So much like his mother perhaps.   It is then that she begins propping him up.  Enabling him to stay on the edge, not falling.  But eventually he sees the jail walls and runs.  It is everything he ran from first but on steroids.

There is much difference between mini stages of the Replay and the role of the op in each.  In each her role and behaviors change.  In so many ways she might like to cushion him but he won't allow it, and its not what she bargained for anyhow.  She bargained for a knight in shining armour not a train wreck.  He cannot be that anymore.  And so down he falls.