[calamity]

Hi,

If anyone can share experiences re:  children, visitation, custody could you please chime in here.  Magnite38 asked me about this & fortunately, I have no experience.  [I can't imagine letting younger children go off with an mlcer].  There's a few on this board with children who are dealing with visitation & schedules & legal arrangements.  Any help appreciated.

[Moving Forward]

Hello Calamity,
I have two children, my son was 11 when my exH left in October 2009 and my daughter was 8. My children are now 14 and almost 12. I can only share what worked for me and it has been the most difficult thing that I have ever done. I put my children's right to have a relationship with their Dad above my own pain - my love for my kids outweighed the 'hatred' I had for their Dad and his actions.

Right from the start I strived for my kids to see their dad 'regularly and consistently' - for me this means that he collect the kids every other Friday from school and returns them each Monday. This means I don't see him, he is very angry, and I have some 'me' time to heal and build my life. He lives within 5 miles of where we do and he passes the end of our road every day to go to work but he pretty much sticks to this routine. My exH married the OW back in June 2011. My children really don't like her - they have come to that conclusion themselves by spending time with her and their Dad. Almost 4 years on they seem to use every little excuse to not got their Dad's whilst she is there and are open in saying to him that they wish to spend more time with him.....alone. He has blown hot and cold about taking them to the cinema/meals etc in between his weekends in the last 3.5 years or so but in the main he sees them every other weekend and takes them away for a week with his wife.

I have read extensively about male depression, divorce and its impact on children etc etc - these are big drivers for me to ensure my children are involved with their Dad 'regularly and consistently' - I do not want to inflict upon my children the pain of a future MLC because I didn't help support them properly through their Dad's departure and subsequent years. Both my children are open and honest about what they think  and feel about their Dad and his life. They are also very open with me about the things we should do more or less of and how they wish their life to look!

I am as 'dark' as I can possibly be with their Dad. - I think Fizzy mentioned 'parallel parenting' and I think that is a good description. I have no desire to co-parent with my exH - he is a broken man, a shadow of the guy he once was and whilst he is in MLC he is not someone I can trust at any level. I know he loves his children, he does what he can for them but it is with a limited set of tools now and I believe he starting to understand the consequences of his choices on his relationship with our children - but this is something he must work through on his own. His relationship with our children is just that....his.

I haven't rushed out to have another relationship (match.com in August 2010 lead me to a little dalliance which was fun and a friend introduced me to one of her friends in late 2011 but my children never met either of them but knew about the guys) which I think has consolidated our 'new normal' - we are a tough little group and our lives are filled with simple joy and lots of fun and laughter. These are the consequences of MY actions when I took the 'right' decision at the very start of this process back in October 2009. My exH is a very angry and manipulative man and for my mental well being I had to learn a whole new way of dealing with him. He doesn't get any of the real me - he gets the Mother of his children, the fun 2013 me is not someone he has any right to be involved with - time may change this but right now it works for me.

Calamity, I am not sure if this helps?? I can't comment on legal rights etc as we are a worldwide community. But I think you have to get your head in the correct mental space first and then you can follow through. the legal stuff should just enforce what you're doing in my view. The absolute bottom line is that my children have a right to have a relationship with their Dad and whilst my pain and hurt at his betrayal may have said otherwise my love for my kids mean that they have 'regular and consistent' contact with their Dad and they can build their relationship from there.

[Stillpraying]

Hi Calamity.
I sought Moving Forward's advice on the recommendation of other's here on the forum so I can certainly endorse what she has to say.
My kids are now 11, 9, 7 and 4.  exH left 2 years ago.  Divorce final today.
It is also the way I am handling things with exH and the kids.  It is very business like when we do interact such as Cello lessons for my son or some extra clothes to keep at his place.
My H also has the kids from Friday night until Monday evening each fortnight.  I don't go to the door if I don't have to.
The kids vent to me and I let them but also work with them on ways they can approach their dad about the things they don't like.  I also take the stance it is about him and them and I am not involved.  Their life with me is now just us and we are having a lot of fun together and certainly drawing closer.
My guiding principle is that I will NEVER stop the kids from seeing their dad but I will never force them to go either.  He knows this.  I've told him exactly that.  If they need to be forced then he will have to do it.  So far he also says he will never force them and sometimes they have ended up staying with me when it was their weekend to be with him.  I step away and let him handle the issue with them but they know this is their home and they don't have to leave.  I do encourage them though as I do want them to have a father.
Hope this helps.
SP

[Magnite38]

Thanks Still and Moving.  I am in the process of trying to figure out some consistent visitation schedules.  My h wants the every other weekend and one evening a week, yet h is so absent, I think this is just talk.  H knows what he should be doing as a parent but can't seem to follow through.  I want him to see the kids regularly but only what he can handle.  We have a S9, D7 and a baby 9months.  He want to do things with the older kids but excludes the baby, too much work.  H is so focused on himself right now, the care of the children are not there.  He seem only capable of taking them out for a meal or sitting with them at the house for a couple hours tops. At some point I hope he can take the kids for a weekend but right now I don't think it is a good idea.  I also don't want to separate the children and he defiantly can't handle a baby.

Here is another long weekend and h has just vanished without a word.  He avoids all contact because he knows he should be seeing his kids. 

I like the parallel parenting concept.  I will not be involved with h's life at all, we are not friends, and until I see a renewed h he is not a part of my life.  H has to figure this parenting stuff out all by himself and he seems to be having a h*ll of a time.  Also h has a 24 yr old OW that I am sure wants nothing to do with the kids and this is a problem.  H has got himself into a mess.  His fantasy that I would help him with the kids, lol, is a big fantasy.  I am allowing him to choose what kind of father he wants to be and he is sucking big time.  Because the kids miss him...well miss old H, I do occasionally suggest extra visitations to h but he is just getting more distant.

[Almost there]

Hi Magnite, what is the worse case scenerio that you can come up with as far as your H having the kids during the time he wants them? If it is abusive I would fight it but if its just that he doesn't handle them the same way you do then maybe you should then look at what you want. If he is expecting to take the older two because they are easier and more fun then maybe he needs a reality check because he is the father of the baby as well and should expect to be responsible for all his children.
 Also you probably need a bit of a break even though at first you probably will miss your kids so much it won't feel like one. The schedule he has given is a pretty typical one for divorced parents. Any way it turns out try to make sure he sticks to the schedule because as soon as it is set he will probably try to exert some sort of control of the situation. I think one thing my exH didn't consider is that by divorcing me he was handing control of the situation over to the courts. He got a major reality check when he took me back to court to try to reduce child support and had his hand smacked.
As far as parallel parenting, I have gone to using an online calendar and email for virtually all my communication. He doesn't monster at me but it still bothers me to even look at or talk to him so I have set it up to have as little contact as possible with him.

[Almost there]

Sorry Calamity, you were talking about Magnite 38 and I forgot this is actually your thread. I don't know if it is possible to move it to the appropriate place. My bad!

[rediscover]

My h left in Sept 2010 and didn't see our daughters for 6 months. When he did start seeing them it was just to pick them up for dinner a few times a month and in Dec 2011 we discovered he lived with OW. When it came to visiting I gave my h no choice, I did however at the recommendation of the girls therapist give them a choice. In Jan 2012 I proposed a schedule of every other weekend at his house and one day during the week, but only if the girls are OK with this. D15 has been following this schedule for about a year. D11 sees him only outside of his home. She will not go anywhere near OW.

My girls are old enough to voice their opinions and do so on a regular basis.

You have to do what's best for the children, and sometimes having a relationship with the MLC'er and OW is not what is best. The only way to figure this out is to talk to the children.

[calamity]

Sorry Calamity, you were talking about Magnite 38 and I forgot this is actually your thread. I don't know if it is possible to move it to the appropriate place. My bad!

No, your bad is not reading well [can you tell I was trained as a teacher?  ]  I started the thread as a discussion for all parents of young children to share experiences.  Another murky area of mlc.  My d is 22--not an issue--as a matter of fact I think she's given up on her father!

[Stillpraying]

Magnite38
I forgot to add the exH also takes one child every Wednesday for dinner alone with him.  The kids do enjoy and look forward to this.  it was a suggestion from the mediator and was their best time with him when, in the first year, he kept taking them every Sunday to OW's house.  So the one on one dinners they just got dad and no OW.  From what I hear of a lot of kids (some who are now adults) going through this, they want to see their parent but not the OW or OM.
I just try to keep things as open as possible for H to be a dad to his kids but it's up to him to take the next step.
Hugs,
SP

[LaughLoveLive]

Hi, just wanted to add in my 2cents worth.

My daughters are 18 & 11 (16 & 9 at BD).  From the beginning we treated them differently just due to their age.

H and I agreed that Dnow18 could do her own thing and choose when she would visit.  she has been spectactularly uninterested in visiting.  She goes occasionally, only when H asks, never on her volition, rarely stays overnight. She has no interest in making her room there "hers". She pops around for coffee mostly.  She has made it clear to him that she does not want to meet with OW while there.  so far that seems to be working.

D11 is a more complicated situation, she finds it all very confusing.  H wanted a more regular schedule with her and I agreed that was probably best, she needed the security of routine.  So he picks her up from me Thursday evenings and drops her home Sunday evening.  Fri evening to Monday morning with another evening mid week is, according to one lawyer I spoke to, a "normal" schedule here in Australia.  He didn't show any interest in a mid week evening and I tweaked things to be Thurs to Sun - that way he has to do the school morning thing rather than just fun weekend stuff but D11 gets to always start the school week off from home here with me.  He rarely makes any contact at all with her outside of this regular schedule. No phone calls, no turning up to school or sports events unless they fall on "his" weekend.  I find this neglect of his little girl appalling but can't do anything about that.  In the end, he is creating (or not creating) their relationship on his terms. 

H doesnt like to have the girls together and I think there are a few reasons:
for a start its more work!
they do argue a bit and he has always found that difficult to deal with and left it to me.  (conflict avoidance!)
Given  the age difference they need different parenting...he can be D18's teenage buddy but has to actually be a parent to D11

D11 doesn't really want to go but has an OK time when she is there.  I think she wants to spend time with her dad but doesn't want to be away from me, her source of security and unconditional love.  We text a lot when she is away from me.  I have already started talking to her about taking a little control of her visitation schedule, this will be difficult for her as she is very afraid that if she says or does anything that might make H unhappy that he "might not love her anymore".  I would like there to be a gradual transition from the set schedule to a schedule that is flexible according to her needs and wishes and then the 'come as you choose" style arrangement that her older sister had from the age of 16.

That doesn't help you Magnite tho coz your kiddos are that much younger.  I think a regular schedule is preferable.  We all know kids do best with routine, after the upheavals they have already experienced they need to know what to expect. Also given your H lack of commitment to parenting so far I think you would start short and build up to longer once everyone was comfortable eg Sat afternoons at first gradually turning into a Sat night overnight.  And unless baby needs mum (eg if sick) the kids are a package.  All or none.