[PatienceGalore]

Wow! that explains why this takes so loooonnnng! My h does refuse to change anything, and believes he has gotten to the bottom of the issues between he and I and there is no point in changing anything....doesn't even believe what I have done as changes is for real....Yep, that would fit. But my point, is if they don't reach that point, then they can stay there for ever? my H comes from a stubborn family anyway, and they are not self aware, and now he says he does not need to see the therapist anymore...hence my chances of him coming back seem to be getting smaller!!!

[panda]

Would be interesting to see the kind of behaviours that are shown when they are approaching awakening.  I am sure I saw something a while back - does anyone have/know the link?

[PatienceGalore]

Panda, I think that is good. I'd like to be able to start to view cyclings, and replay and changes, as I have started to really step back...I am so curious.
I would love to read more.

[CallanG]

Just attaching to this thread, thank you Albatross this is all very helpful and interesting .

Callan

[FindingJoJo]

Wow! that explains why this takes so loooonnnng! My h does refuse to change anything, and believes he has gotten to the bottom of the issues between he and I and there is no point in changing anything....doesn't even believe what I have done as changes is for real....Yep, that would fit. But my point, is if they don't reach that point, then they can stay there for ever? my H comes from a stubborn family anyway, and they are not self aware, and now he says he does not need to see the therapist anymore...hence my chances of him coming back seem to be getting smaller!!!

You said something interesting here.  Your H doesn't believe that your changes are real.....the odd thing is that one thing they have to believe is that our changes are real.  They have to learn to trust us.  In their sickened mind they believe and are hurt by what they believe is our betrayal of them and they don't trust us.  That is why they don't trust our changes especially if recent.  The only thing that can help with that is TIME.  Once they start believing our changes are real they do slowly look at themselves.  It isn't fair but they are the perceived "victims", its why they put the blame on us.  It isn't logical or anything but it is very real to them.  I think that is why as we focus on our self improvement, we become more self aware we radiate those vibes.  As we let go of them, the pressure to keep their defenses up comes off and they become more open and trusting towards us.  Its why the illogical step of letting go is so very effective with them.  Besides letting go allows us to heal.

[panda]

Jojo - you are so right.  When I think back to how I behaved in the earlier days I am quite horrified and realised I actually made it worse - it gave him my behaviour to feed off of - he was in his glory. Now, I have however accepted this is the way it is and its a long road with no idea what will happen in the future.  Quite alot of the time I have had to bite my tongue from saying things I would have in the past and let him get on with it - to a certain degree of course.  There have been a few instances I have had to pull him into line but I think he has been pushing deliberately anyway.

Its amazing that they really don't trust us and forget all we did pre BD - my H hid loads of documents, got super paranoid and that seems to be lessening now.   I sometimes do think he wonders why I have not clung to him, begging.  Maybe he no longer cares anyway, who knows.

[WorkingHard]

You said something interesting here.  Your H doesn't believe that your changes are real.....the odd thing is that one thing they have to believe is that our changes are real.  They have to learn to trust us.  In their sickened mind they believe and are hurt by what they believe is our betrayal of them and they don't trust us.  That is why they don't trust our changes especially if recent.  The only thing that can help with that is TIME.  Once they start believing our changes are real they do slowly look at themselves.  It isn't fair but they are the perceived "victims", its why they put the blame on us.  It isn't logical or anything but it is very real to them.  I think that is why as we focus on our self improvement, we become more self aware we radiate those vibes.  As we let go of them, the pressure to keep their defenses up comes off and they become more open and trusting towards us.  Its why the illogical step of letting go is so very effective with them.  Besides letting go allows us to heal.

This is so true! They have to learn to trust us (or trust us again, like they used to). And it starts with them realizing we have not been awful to them, have not ruined their lives, have not done much of anything to make them feel like the victims they do.

In the last couple of weeks, as my detachment has really improved, the MLC monologue I'm hearing has shifted from, "You've never trusted me in all these years" to "I need to work on my trust issues. I don't trust myself."

I think (but am not sure) that my growing detachment has helped to allow this new insight to emerge. I got tired of the "You've never trusted me all these years" accusations and started tuning them out.

You keep making your wonderful changes and let H make his (or not).

Peace,

WH

[Albatross]

Dissolution of the Persona
- Firstly, one has to become aware of the Persona.
- Secondly, one must dissolve the Persona.

Dissolution of the Persona is a key transition in our development, and thus requires us to ‘separate’ from those qualities of the Persona that we worked so hard to develop and ‘mistook’ to be the qualities of our ‘self’.  Dissolution of the Persona is not only about being able to take off the mask, but more importantly, being able to hang up the mask, while having the ability to put one on when necessary (i.e. social necessity) - though entirely at one’s own bidding. 

At end of SEPARATION phase MLCer have separated ego and persona. Trough process of separation he become aware of persona as part of ego and it is a way different of ego. So, MLCer knows that their persona does not work anymore they decide to kill it. Bold text up said that. They still use it, but they know inside self that is MASK not persona for them anymore. They probably hate own persona. Sure they should rebuild it as better one, but they haven't clue how should look like.

Like transforming an oil painting to a mirror.  Differentiating one’s own consciousness from the previous personal identities (Persona) creates a conscious wherein new objects of consciousness are no longer subject to subconscious projections and therefore this new found objectivity saves the subject from being at the mercy of the reactive mechanism.

Reactive mechanism = unconscious automation of the Persona.
For instance, if there is a spider on your shoulder, and you don’t know it, it has no effect on you.
But once you’re
(1) conscious of it your mind instantaneously experiences:
 2) perception
 3) sensation
 4) reaction.

That means You don't react as You did before, automatically.

Upon dissolution of the Persona, one now becomes an entirely different ‘being’.  A being free to express one’s self without the shackles of the unconscious automation of the Persona.  This period is marked by an unfamiliar silence.  The volume of the voices becomes silent, but what one loses in identity, one gains in personal insight.  This silence in the mind is ‘deafening’ so to speak, and one feels awake.  The occurrence is somewhat similar to the initial experience of having your ears pop after they’ve been plugged for some time and you had no idea.

So, MLCer after dissolution of persona give up from own identity. He is nobody. He is cocoon. He does not know who is he, yet. He just pretend with mask (old persona). Covert depression. Separation phase, also somehow means disconnecting from everyone, the world. MLCer does not work anymore. His identity is not what he really is, but he does not know who he is. Scary ? Sure. He turn inward to find out who he really is.

TIP: You probably notice that Your MLCer not react on similar happening as he did before. They are changed, no automation as before, they respond instead react from ego, not persona.

Why MLCers feel EMPTY ? Because their persona was TICK and rest of ego deflated. So, releasing bigger part of own ego as worthless is some kind of suicide. Such kind of people strongly identify with persona = like whole Self, which is not true. So, he experience somehow as own death, emptiness. He have now tick persona which is worthless and deflated weak rest of ego. Imagine that ? Also usually with tick persona goes bigger distance between persona and rest of ego in therm of thinking. ie one thinks that he is persona, ego interface to the world.

[Dreamer]

If MLC is about regressing for some old issues from childhood, how do ow/OM figure? Have all these mlcers had something that happened that makes them think they need someone new? They all pick someone who is much younger than they are. Is there any to help them progress through the tunnel, as to help them realize they are adults and not a 25 year old looking for a lost love. How would you know when they have hit the point that they have  their awakening and decide they don't ow or marriage as some stay or marry ow? From the different posts I have read, it seems Mlcrs that we're controlling have a harder time coming through, they have always equated love with control. So how to break the cycle ?

[Albatross]

If MLC is about regressing for some old issues from childhood, how do ow/OM figure?

I believe that they have several OM/OW for who we don't know before bomb drop. It is all part of traveling trough time respectively. Some can be just friendly chatting, some as EA, and some PA.

Have all these mlcers had something that happened that makes them think they need someone new? They all pick someone who is much younger than they are.

So far I see here on forum majority have OM/OW from their Youth. Means similar ages as they are. If someone have much younger she or he is somehow copy of LBS.

Is there any to help them progress through the tunnel, as to help them realize they are adults and not a 25 year old looking for a lost love.

It is almost impossible to help them. They have to learn by them self, banging head against wall...

How would you know when they have hit the point that they have  their awakening and decide they don't ow or marriage as some stay or marry ow?

It is very hard to know when awakening will happen, but if your MLCer awake, You will know that for sure. He will come to You and start to pursue You. OFC he will dump OW first.

From the different posts I have read, it seems Mlcrs that we're controlling have a harder time coming through, they have always equated love with control. So how to break the cycle ?

They are mess and can't cope with reality, so they need freedom for own journey. If LBS try to help, they feel it as controlling and we distract them from inner work. Usually they run even faster from us. You meant that MLCers are co-dependent and hallmark of co-dependents is controlling, controlling is for them love. But that not works for them anymore and they now identify infatuation with love...

I hope that I help a bit.