[Bailmor]

in it, than you for posting this.  I read this earlier and this should be something that ever couple getting married should have to read.  And the same goes for the wife or woman as well.  This is truly what a marriage is about.  I appreciate your passing this one.  It is great to read something like this and know there is a blueprint that not all people know.  Continued success in your new business!

[in it]

Thank you Balimor.

 EXACTLY this works BOTH WAYS!!

[hobo1]

Thanks, In It.  I appreciate you posting things for men every once in a while!

I'll give you my rant, and understand that it's not directed at you.

In my Opinion, these are very logical things to do...  it will help people stay together, and love each other...  UNLESS your spouse has an avoidant or other personality disorder.....  and UNLESS they are having a MID LIFE CRISIS. 

This man seems to take responsibility for his divorce and is regretting things he never did.  It could very well be that he was the loser who took his wife for granted and perhaps even abused and controlled her, but while I was NOT PERFECT, and I certainly could have taken some of this advice and worked on it....  but I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY for my divorce.  It was all my xW's desire.  My xW NEVER told me what was wrong, what I can do to change, what she wanted in life, and from me.  I am not a mind reader, and I never want to be.  ALL she did was tell me that she didn't love me anymore.  We didn't have an argument, we didn't have a heart to heart talk, she didn't get mad....  All she wanted to do was withdraw from me, and for me to move out of my own home.  There are many men who fall out of love with their wives too, and a wife has the same responsibilty and obligation as the husband.

1.  Never stop courting, Never stop dating....  YES, we stopped dating after we had kids.  I ALWAYS wanted to date, I kept asking her if we should hire a sitter so that we can go out along.  She ALWAYS said NO>  ALWAYS....  I stopped trying.

2.  I protected my heart, I was fiercely loyal and I reserved a spot only for her....  She never opened up to me....  She was incapable.  I never strayed, and never opened my heart to any one else.  SHE decided to open it to someone else.

3.    ? HUH?  I never fell out of love with my xW.  Do I always feel romantic?  NO, but never once did I think about leaving.  SHE should look to fall in love with me everyday.  She should have showed me appreciation, affection and love...  as opposed to withdrawing and withholding affection.

4.  Yes, she should look at the best in me.  I bust my ass working to provide for the family, and all she could think about is my negatives...  no one is perfect.  She certainly wasnt, but I didn't focus on it, she should always see the best in ME.

5.  She changed, she admitted it....  to be a selfish, idiotic b!tc#, LOVE what she has become?  no thanks.

6.   Agree that I am responsible for my own happiness, but she destroyed the family, and disadvantaged the kids.  Well....  someone is responsible for that....  and it sure ain't me.  I'm not the one who pursued the divorce with vigor.

7.  What?  If she leaves and destroys the family, I should look at my own FOO?  because I should never be frustrated and angry with her?  Don't blame her even though she takes half my salary and destroyed all that I worked for?

8.  I WAS ALWAYS there....  She agreed that I was a great family man, and am always there....  I am there too much

9.  I was always joking and laughing....  Once my son heard a woman laugh, and we looked at each other and asked if that was mommy...  He looked at me and said no....  mommy never laughs.

10.  I asked what would make her happy....  I said whatever will make you happy, that's what I want....  She never said a word.

11.  I was always there, always wanted to talk....  She withdrew... never opened up emotionally

12.  I was passionate about sex....  towards the end, she was like a dead fish.... let's get it over with...

13.  I made plenty of mistakes, and sometimes I am stupid.... but I've never committed a divorcable offense.

14.  She never took time for herself....  Well...  she has all the time with herself now...  She still has the kids most of the time, so I don't see how divorcing me helps

15.  I'm always willing to open my heart, she is not

16.  This completely applies to her, not to me.

17.  Yes, fully agree, I keep telling her what my dreams are....  She never had any... really, not joking

18.  I was concerned about money...  she was too.  But then came a point after BD that she claims that's all i cared about....  Well... after you tell me there is no use in talking about love.... what else is there to talk about...  if you want divorce, then yes, we are talking about money

19.  I need to work on Forgiveness

20.  Yes, there will always be love

An LBSer can possess all these qualities and do all these things, it would never prevent an MLCer from leaving...  This all sickens them.

[in it]

I know and I'm encouraging the RANTS! GOOD ONE HOBO1!

With whomever we were with it wouldn't have mattered one Gosh Darn bit. We weren't some one they could relate to.

We could have been what they considered perfect? Doesn't matter.

That doesn't mean we aren't human beings. And deserve to be treated better.

[twiceburnt]

Thanks for posting this In It.

I have to agree with hobo1 here though.  Sure, all of this is important and probably needs improved upon in a normal relationship.  I probably should have read this list once a week, but I think in the end, it wouldn't have mattered.  This doesn't seem to work for MLCers.  Sure there are times I should have been more romantic, focused more on her emotional needs, etc.  But the same goes for her.  I often felt like my needs weren't important and I sacrificed everything for her to have a good life.  There were many times I didn't feel "madly in love" with my W, but I would never stray or leave her.

All of this stuff could be worked on during a marriage when both are willing and communicate.  Kids, work, etc. throw a major wrench into being able to court/date like you first met.  My W bottles everything up and doesn't bring up things until the BD.  Then it is "too little too late" in her mind.  Then anything the LBS tries to do to "fix" things, just makes the MCLer resent them even more.

The funny part is, when my W came begging for me back after first time she went wayward, all of this stuff didn't seem to matter so much, or she realized that I was doing all of these things - maybe not as well or consistently as I should have, but it is what it is.  And yes, I've been beating myself up again thinking "if I only did more of this, or that", maybe things wouldn't have gotten to this point a second time.  But I'm seeing the same exact patterns in her as last time.  She just wants to "go and go" (her words) and doesn't want to be home, etc.  She's back to the "it's all about her" phase.  If she didn't seem to ignore our son as well, maybe I would think it was about me, but I've seen this before.

I see all kinds of marriages where things are far from perfect, yet they stay together, work on things and don't stray.  It is frustrating really.  I've seen some big mistakes done by people I know and their W's forgive them and they work on things.  Yet, I do some petty thing I didn't even realize I did wrong, and all of the sudden I get accused that I never loved her and it's all my fault.

[in it]

They have to blame SOMEBODY! They will not look at their own FOO issues or whatever. I belive it's inherit in long term relationshps.

All of this stuff could be worked on during a marriage when both are willing and communicate

IMHO That's the key to the whole mess right there.

[hobo1]

I see all kinds of marriages where things are far from perfect, yet they stay together, work on things and don't stray.  It is frustrating really.  I've seen some big mistakes done by people I know and their W's forgive them and they work on things.  Yet, I do some petty thing I didn't even realize I did wrong, and all of the sudden I get accused that I never loved her and it's all my fault.

Twice burnt - I know exactly what you mean.... I know of drug addicted, criminal, cheating and abusive husbands....  treat their wives like dirt....  I mean completely irresponsible unloving SOBs....  Their wives are loyal and adore them...  They are willing to die for them.

Makes me think I must be doing something wrong.

[twiceburnt]

They have to blame SOMEBODY! They will not look at their own FOO issues or whatever. I belive it's inherit in long term relationshps.

All of this stuff could be worked on during a marriage when both are willing and communicate

IMHO That's the key to the whole mess right there.

Yes, I agree completely.  My W even mentioned she cried to her friends, sister, and mom before (about something I did/didn't do or was/wasn't doing), and they gave her advice, but it "didn't work".  Umm...why not tell me or cry to me about it?!  I can't read her mind, I certainly can't read her friends, etc. minds.  Force me to go to marriage counseling....SOMETHING.

But then again, it isn't about me.  I think she was crying to them about something inside herself, but she just didn't/won't realize it.

[in it]

Hobo:No you are not doing something wrong..I don't think.

You may be too giving..

Women like that when they stay with jerks like those guys are codependent and you would not want them..needy..abandonment issues usually.

Will tolerate anything not to be on their own and alone.

We need to be is WHOLE people. We are healing keep posting.

TB
They won't cry to us for thier fear of vulnerability probably and you are right.

 No one is a mind reader.

[honour]

Found this online:

My advice after a divorce following 16 years of marriage, by Gerald Rogers.

The article appears to be written by a LBS who has regrets for taking his W for granted. I don't think the deeply empathetic LBS, male or female, who find a home at forum like this one, are the personality type to have taken their loved one or their marriage for granted.

20. Always choose love. ALWAYS CHOOSE LOVE.

The people who come here did/do choose love. That's why the detaching is so very hard.

In it, is this quote in bold, "I didn't read anything about CONTROL here. Controlling behavior will kill a relationship." your words or Gerald Rogers' words?