[Albatross]

Albatross, I understand the need to have the relationship with the opposite sex, however, does it need to involve intimacy? We all know that the OW is a symptom and I have always understood their role in this but I have also thought that the MLCer gets confused about what it is they need; they confuse their needs (closeness) with sex. Could the MLCer have a friendship with the opposite sex and still be able to move  through the tunnel? Would this then be considered a transition instead of of a crisis?

Some of them are only in EA, but majority are in PA. Affairs are difference between MLT  and MLC.

[I reckon so]

Albatross,

My BD was "I want a divorce". I found out about 5 months later there was OM, she said nothing physical happened and it lasted only few months. From monster after BD, to OM, to eventually moving out the week before Thanksgiving , everything is major MLC. My question is, do you think that it is possible to have all of the other crisis events and the other relationship not get physical. Everything else is there but she has always maintained that nothing physical happened.

[Albatross]

My question is, do you think that it is possible to have all of the other crisis events and the other relationship not get physical. Everything else is there but she has always maintained that nothing physical happened.

It is possible that only EA exists.

[31andcounting]

I reckon so~  My H has had 2 OW , EA only..all he has admitted that and I believe him.  I know both were not physical, I mean hugs,kissing.....I think yes, but no S@$.  Everything else has been "script"  he just never went completely over the boundary......close enough to cause all sorts of havoc.  Has told me it was to that point, but he did not. We are reconnecting/reconciling now.  He never left the home, BD was over 3 years ago, the crisis has been 6 to 7 years in play
I believe it is possible "to not " cross that line for some   I also understand my H is not completely through the tunnel yet...but he is headed that direction
31andcounting

[I reckon so]

31andcounting,

I hope for the possibility of R in the future that my W is telling the truth. I know that she has felt guilt in her life for things that she had no part in. She has a father who is a perfectionist and she became one too. She puts a lot of pressure on herself and I am realizing that she was living a life of accommodation. I know that she is carrying guilt and probably some shame, she is very hurt, but she is in a state that seems to be void of emotions. This is the opposite of what she has always been. She seems hurt, confused, and I believe she is deceived and chasing something that doesn't even exists. Her father cheated on her mother at least twice although they never separated and are very happy today. Even if it was a PR, as hard as that will be to deal with I love her and pray that we are a family again one day.

[31andcounting]

I reckon so~ I understand completely. My H had alot of the same, he even said "i just want to feel something"  he has lived with a life of shame and guilt for things that happened to him as a child, then he had done some"things" early on in out M , IE walked out on me andour 2 babies....divorced me, came back now crisis.   So much shame and guilt   I have stood for our love and for our family for some time now.  Try to be full of grace, that is what truly helped me get through.  Put myself in his pain...........it has been tough but coming around to a much much better place now.  Prayers for you
(((hugs)))
31andcounting

[Albatross]

Stage #1 SEPARATION
1. Difficulty of adaptation. Little progression of libido - Imminently lead to the depression.
2. Regression of energy (depression, lack of disposable energy) - MLCer dive in depression - They start to turn inward.
3. Re-cognizing the Persona (become conscious of the MASK) - breaking point, they have to kill self.
4. Dissolution of the Persona - strictly by ‘act of will’.

Separation phase finished. One become nobody - lost identity.. They experience ego death. Persona is interface to the world, means MLCer is finally cut off from world. Whole his world is only himself.



Stage #2 LIMINALITY - Merger with shadow begins.

1. Activation of unconscious contents
 (fantasies, complexes,archetypal images, inferior function, opposite attitude,shadow, anima/animus, etc.).
- Compensation - A natural process aimed at establishing or maintaining balance within the psyche.

2. Symptoms of neurosis (confusion, fear, anxiety, guilt, moods, extreme affect, etc.)

3. Unconscious or half-conscious conflict between ego and contents activated in the unconscious.
Inner tension. Defensive reactions. Persona complex gets replaced by Archetypes ! Archetypes are complexes, means they become autonomous. Means shadow become autonomous. Link between shadow and ego is animus/anima (Soul).

  - ESCAPE & AVOID

"I should like to emphasize that the integration of the shadow, or the realization of the personal unconscious, marks the first stage in the analytic process, and that without it a recognition of anima and animus is impossible. The shadow can be realized only through a relation to a partner, and anima and animus only through a relation to a partner of the opposite sex, because only in such a relation do their projections become operative." - Jung

- REGRESSION - REGRESSIVE RESTORATION OF PERSONA - REPLAY - Replay continues until next phase.

4. Re-cognizing the Archetypes. - To reach this point one have to reach stage of humility - PROJECTIONS VANISHED.

- AWAKENING !

5. Dissolution of the Archetypes:  (the Shadow, the Anima or Animus, and the Self).

- LIMINAL OVERT DEPRESSION

STAGE #3 REINTEGRATION - INDIVIDUATION
6. Activation of the transcendent function, involving the self and archetypal patterns of wholeness. - CENTERING OF PSYCHE.
7. Formation of symbols (numinosity, synchronicity).
8. Transfer of energy between unconscious contents and consciousness. Enlargement of the ego, progression of energy.
9. Assimilation of unconscious contents.
10. Rebuilding PERSONA - Rebirth - Reintegration can be repeated including tweaking new persona.

[I reckon so]

Albatross, when a MLCer kills their persona which is their mask, what do they generally look like afterwords? I'm hoping for our family to be together again and I love my wife very much even though I don't know who she is right now. I wonder what she will be like on the other side of this. I fell in love with her, persona and all. I know this is not the real her. If what I have always known was not the real her either it is still the her that I married and started a family with.

[I reckon so]

31andcounting,

Thanks for the encouraging words and prayers! 6-7 years of this is a very sobering number. I am 1 year since recognizing the crisis and it seems like forever. I know that a MLCer is in a tunnel and I feel I'm in one too, just a different one. I feel sorry for my W and what she is going through, I know it is painful. The sad part is the things she feels will free her will, in the end, just bring more pain. 
I am so glad to hear your marriage is heading in a good direction! Can't get enough of those stories that keep hope alive.

[31andcounting]

Thanks I reckon so   yes 6 or 7 is long BUT  I did not know it during all that time....I knew something was "off"  could not figure out why "whatever" I did it was wrong......  I am 3 plus years from BD#1 "my heart is not in our home" "I NEVER wanted to marry you" speech.(after 31 years of marriage)  It is a tough road to follow for sure, but worth it.  "I" have become different and will continue to grow, my H too I hope.  Not in is head so I don't really know how he is changing...he is but don't know particulars yet, may not ever know I guess   I am learning that is ok.  The old me would never have gone on without answers to EVERYTHING!!!  It is a growing process for all
We must have darkness before we see light
(((hugs)))
31