[LisaLives]

The thread about MLCers not being the enemy has caused me to think really hard about a lot of issues.  But mostly, how much “forgiveness” do they deserve, and how much does “standing” change your perspective?  And RCR knows I respect her and all her work a lot, but I wonder if she would think differently if she had kids when dealing with her H’s MLC.  My biggest struggle has not been me, it has been with the pain this has caused my kids.  I have worked really hard with my therapist and my kids’ therapists on separating out my projections and issues and their issues and pain.  Of course so much of it is entwined.  There is a reason the saying “ain’t momma happy, ain’t nobody happy” probably resides in some form in half the houses in this country, right?  Families are important and what hurts one person, hurts all.  But they are far more hurt than I am. 

I think if I had been a stander, I would be more apologetic when it comes to the kids.  However, I have been told I can’t tell them he loves them or that he is not in his right mind.  If he ACTS like he doesn’t love them, in their understanding, and he claims he is in his right mind, then I am totally contradicting him, and in reality, I don’t KNOW what he thinks or feels—obviously, I thought he loved me, but he left…  If I were a true stander I would believe all this is temporary and one day he will come back and apologize and work to make things right, so I guess I would try really hard to make everything right.  But I really think he will never admit he was wrong or made a mistake and I don’t have the energy to save me and him and them, someone has to go, and let’s be honest, he is the other grown-up in this picture. 

I can imagine how painful it is to have a true vanisher, but my exH is so needy and dependent on his kids for something (I think it’s narc supply, but I could be wrong, but it is not healthy, whatever it is) that he has never abandoned them.  He calls or texts about a dozen times a day and they hate it.  He became superDad in the schools last year, wanted to be there for every event and scheduled regular meetings with teachers—our kids were in middle school, no reason for that.  I really, truly wish he were a vanisher.  It is so hard to have two kids in crisis with a father who “wants” to be totally involved but truly does not get it.  He still blames me for everything—and so does his therapist, from what he tells me… 

He claims he loves them more than anything, yet he had an affair, dumped me with no warning or notice, changed jobs, moved across the country to be with her and her kids and married her without telling his kids first.  Things that make you go hmmmmm, right?  So S15 finally grew the courage to tell him off this month and exH had a small breakdown.  He begged me to help him.  I sent him a couple long e-mails that he responded to in a positive way, but still nothing really—I think the dude has no concept of empathy. 

S15 failed the eighth grade, went to summer school, eked out a promotion and is failing all his classes this year.  I have a conference on Friday to discuss what to do with him now—it’s not pretty.  And this is a very smart kid.  A kid who last year promised he would not fail science—he knows it is my love.  Going into the final, he had about a 30 average, and got a 98 on his final—he CAN do the work, he just won’t.  Then this am, I left S13 curled up on his bed in the fetal position crying because he was so sad he will never have another “normal” holiday and he wants his life back.  I had two important meetings today—I am commissioned and these were huge meetings—thanks to exH who forced me to go back and get a sub-standard full-time job so I could support two kids and have health insurance for them while he gets to make three times as much money for his new family… 

I really am not bashing him.  I loved him, will always love him, and I want him to be happy, I really do, and I hope he is.  I need everything he did to be worth it.  I am not a true stander like everyone else here, but in some ways I am.  I will never marry again—I believe you marry once, for kids and a family, and that’s it.  But, I also do not believe I should be alone for the rest of my life.  I was a good partner and want that again.  Some guy would be lucky to have me and I don’t want to waste the best years of my life (not to mention my sexual prime) waiting for exH to make up his mind and then nurturing him back to some kind of reality.  I did buy in for better or worse, but sudden abandonment and remarriage to some needy chic across the country were not part of my vows. 

So, today, in so many ways, he is my enemy.  He is hurting my kids in ways I never imagined—I would never let anyone else get away with hurting my kids that badly and yet here I sit, holding the towels and letting them take the punches.  This is where standing for me becomes confusing.  My kids need me to stand for them, and that means that right now, in the most dangerous time of their lives, he is the enemy.  I confess, my born allegiance is with the Nittany Lions and the Sandusky scandal has ripped me to the core.  I have been nauseous for a week.  And while it is not nearly equal, I feel like my exH and so many WAS’s are just like him—able to put aside the feelings of young kids for their own selfish needs.  I am just sick over all of it, and the saddest part for me is that I know I am happier.  I am happy not to have him in my life.  I have wonderful friends and have had a blast dating for the first time in my life.  I truly like people and I love spending time with men I would never have any reason to meet and would certainly not spend the rest of my life with them, but they are great people that I am glad to know.  He was always miserable and impossible to please and so was his mother—and they were a package deal.  I have a charming simple life now.  But my kids are so unhappy and it is all so unfair.  As S15’s therapist said, he has given him every opportunity to do just one thing right, but he keeps making poor choices.  What are we supposed to do with that?  Really?  I keep rereading The Shack, trying to locate that in my heart, but I think I was just born without the "forgiveness" gene.  How do the rest of you do it?   

[Rookie13]

Hi Lisa, I hear your post as I have 4 kids who are/were very hurt and confused. It is stunning to them, just as much or more than us in the beginning of this/her mess. D15 at the time of BD, S13 at the time, "lashed out" at her with some pretty vulgar stuff. S5 at the time became very uncontrolable ( and is 8 now and still is for her) S2 at the time who is autistic ( he's high functioning though, thank God! and is 5 now)  is having emotional problems in his school and has been biting, spitting, scratching and saying bad words to his teachers coincided with her getting together with BF#2.

When my wife left 2 and a half years ago ( she's my ex now) she said "the kids will be fine"  and blames me that I poisioned them! 

I have got them all pretty much stable and "time" has helped also except for the 2 little ones as they have to live in her world with her.

I feel the same as you and I am done with her but the kids will be a life long commitment that I will never give up! I put off my personal life for them and gave them a true model to model after. I am trying to get S16 now to try and reconnect with her as he does not do much with her. D19 now is away at school and "txt's her mother and also keeps in touch through FB. She is disappointed in her mother but wants to keep her relationship with her even if it's a small one.

I stood for her to try and get my kids all under one roof but her MLC is way to powerful for even her! I have the green light from my two oldest to GAL now and dating included! They have told me I have been there for them every step of the way as the BD was just not on me but them too! I took the high road foe the most part and although it was not my intention at the time as I was trying to save us all, it paid off for the kids sake! My 2 youngest are here "a lot" and love it!

I definitely gave her a lot of my energy but no more. I too cannot save her from herself. I knew that a while back. My ex claims the same as your ex that she loves them a lot yet never really "does" anything" to show it. All MLC. It will come back and bite her which is a shame.

My two oldest are also smart and both failed a few courses the first year after BD. D19 is doing GREAT now as I support her in all she does and I love when she calls for advice. S16 is also back on track with his grades and his attitude is much better. S8 is doing pretty good also and is very smart and can get by without much effort. I am afraid for their emotional health though and wonder just how much they are burying/buried. Time will tell.

As far as her being happy, I don't really care if she is or isn't. By the looks of her new BF, I would say she isn't. As far as "always loving her", That is gone with time, a shame, but I can forgive her as I truly feel she knows not what she does so to speak. Yes, she is the enemy of our children only she doesn't know it. Can't really fault her for MLC.

Hang in there, one stable parent can do the work!

[Stillpraying]

Lisa,
I agree, it's the hardest part.  Me?  I could say, Ok H have it your way.  You've lied to me from the start etc etc. and walk away, heal and move on. (not saying that would be easy)but then I think about the kids and how they would so love to have daddy back home.  Although s9 is quite clear that he does not want his dad home unless he apologizes to everyone for what he's done.  He wants his old life with dad back.  Not the current selfish angry dad.  He's been playing old family videos to make himself feel better.  He's suddenly come to the realisation that dad is never coming home (as he says it).
The boys get collected from school.  They told H that no parking at the usual spot because exams are on at the moment.  So H parks there (forgets) and walks all over the school looking for the boys who are simply around the corner at the 'kiss and drop off/pick up' area.  H yells at them because he went everywhere to look for them.  This is what they put up with all the time.  his anger when they haven't done a thing. 
I hate that I cannot do anything except be 'the best mum I can be'.  I hate that this is the only advice I seem to get from anyone.  If this were a different person, I would never leave the kids in their care again.  Just because it is their biological dad, I must send them off to angry MLC land with H and OW.
Like MIL said, just pray for them before they go!

Truely, it is the same as asking a 16 yr old boy with a chip on his shoulder and his girlfriend to look after my kids.
They are the inocent ones.  And the MLCer is a monster to them.  It's exactly the word they use to describe him.

Just read Rookie's post.......
Yes mine said the kids would be fine too.  He also said to me that they were adjusting so well because of his involvement with them He only sees them on Sunday afternoons and for school drop offs/pick ups 3 days a week. He has no idea if they are adjusting or not.  He's never asked.  He never calls them either.
S9 also said he wanted me to meet a new man as he wants a 'real dad' who lives with us.

[WarriorPriestess]

Hi Lisa, I merged this thread with a previous one on the same topic.  A couple other people were also recently asking similar questions as you.  Hopefully this thread will help out a bit.

[LisaLives]

Thanks rookie and SP, rookie, you especially give me hope that he might have a rough time but still get through it.  It is hella hard...  Spent all week trying to get S13 stable and sleeping--he cries all night long.  And S15 teacher conferences to try to figure out how to get some credits for the year...  And exH just keeps saying what can I do, should I come back there for a visit?  How do you say, hell no, they hate you, and your visits are what make their life miserable?  They tell me everything they should be telling him, yet they can't.  It is so hard to grow that kind of backbone--it took me 42 years to do what they need to do, and yet they have to because their Dad who should be the grown up here isn't...  I don't like feeling trapped in the middle, but I am and there is no way to bridge the gap.  Thanks both of you, I knew my oldest was going to be a difficult teen from birth, but I thought that at least I would have the benefit of a stable, and flexible home to get him through...  Oh well, off to pick up pizza.  Everyone have a good night, love and light, Lisa 

[Stillpraying]

Hi Lisa,
How did you get s13 stabel and sleeping?  Mine are so restless at night and will not stay in bed.  Stalling and delaying etc.  It's lately often 10pm before I can get peace and quiet for myself.  Had a major meltdown this morning and I think part of it is due to mental, emotional and physical exhaustion.  Night times are just a place no one wants to go at the moment and I'm at a loss as to what to do.
Ofcourse the next mornign is always a battle to get them all out of bed again and dressed for school etc.
Any advice would be welcome.

Hugs,
SP

[Rookie13]

Hi Lisa and SP, It took me a while, but if the kids see you as Happy and Smiling (even if you fake it for them as the stress is exhausting and can be overwhelming, been there!) they will begin to gain in themselves your happiness and strength. Kids can sense it all, if they sense your upset with your h's, they will be too. It's time to bury the hatchet on your MLCer for now and let your kids know in a nice way that he is sick right now and going through a lot and tell your kids not to give up on their dad or whatever you feel is 'the right words".

I know they miss/angry/pissed at their dad, but you have to become both parents for as long as it takes and when your sick and tired of it all you still have a ways to go. That is what will make them stable again, YOUR strength. Take the confusion out of them by ALWAYS letting them know you are there for them as I know you are probably already doing that. I do not think "replacing" their dad with another one is a very good idea at this point. They are not ready for that. I'm not even sure they are ready for you to date yet. They have a way to go yet. You will see the difference when it's time for that and you can trust me on that. I know we have needs and some yours may be different from mine because of the male and female difference and not just referencing sex but security and stability in our selves is different also. Yes we have our hands and day FULL of other peoples/kids needs and wants and our needs and wants are no where in sight, but it does get easier so don't think the tunnel will be dark forever.

I made this mistake as I was hurt, but never let them see you weak if you can. Kids look for models and strength in their parents. The safer you make the feel, the more SECURE they will become and the sooner your needs will be met. Trust me. The sooner you get a strategy on dealing with it ALL, the sooner stability comes. Take one thing at a time with your kids and master it. Then take the next thing. Be consistent and you will/can master anything in a week or less.

My heart goes out to you and your kids! Patience is gold and I know it is running short right now. Hang in there to see just how incredible you can be. Your reward will be nothing short of amazing. 

[Stillpraying]

Thanks Rookie!!!

Just the pep talk and advice I needed this morning. I'm just not getting that sort of support from family and friends, so I appreciate you taking the time to post the above helpful pointers.

Rest assured, I won't be dating for some time.  I'm married  .  Just posted that to show where s( is at with his feelings.

I like the tip of taking one thing at a time and mastering that.  It will be timely bed times this week!!!  Already told the kids there will be no late night movie night tonight (friday) as we have had way too many late nights this week.  it's normal bed time for us all.

I did put a roster up for the dishwasher, compost run, feeding the dog and setting the table and that has been positive and gives me time to complete another task while they take care of their task.  Even d3 is excited about helping (for now  )

I just lost it this morning when I got home from dropping them all of and sobbed and sobbed.  Haven't done that in a while.  Now I'm ready to pick myself up and get to being the best parent I can be.

Thanks and Hugs,
SP

[Rookie13]

SP, I was writing while you were posting. Getting the kids to bed is tough, THIS is where you need to be fair, firm and CONSISTENT with them. Have a bed time and stick to it. You will need to stay right on top of them for days 1 -4 and things are going to be tough as they are going to RESIST control setting but day 5 or so you will see a difference if YOU are consistent. 7'oclock, last drink! last bathroom trip! 8-9 watch tv, 9, lights out or something like that. Do not budge from what is fair (and you will explain that to them and it has to be fair to them also) be firm and do not allow excuse's and be consistent! KIDS are begging to be controlled inside as that is stability!

They act out to be controlled believe it or not. And we all know they will try and ware us down, but controls are the healthiest thing for a kid/teenager. Try and master that one thing only. If mastered, other things will be that much easier as they will know you are for real and their own tests on your strength will diminish. Security will start settling in on them.

Good luck, I was giving this tool by my father as he is a psychologist and i was as overwhelmed as you and it worked for me. I was amazed and relieved. HAD to stay fair, firm and consistent though or, as he told me, "you will be wasting your time".   

[Rookie13]

lol, i was writing as you were posting again, give it a try though!

Glad to "read" your spirits are up!  and this site is a place were we have the friends we really need, the ones who really do understand what each other is feeling and going through. A blessing for real in an unreal "world"!