[justasking]

nlove

Your adult children have set their boundaries for their father and unfortunately as the others have said you have to let go. They will sort this out for themselves you can't fix it for them.

Hopefully one day their father will wake up and try and rebuild the bridges to new relationships. At the moment this estrangement from his children are your H consequences for his bad choices.

xx

[dollard]

my adult children have absolutely no relationship with their father

my daughter told him in 2008, it would be better if he had died than put our family through what he did.

perhaps with more time things will change, but so far he is still pretty messed up.

I too wonder many times what happened to that wonderful man and father, and would like him to reappear again.

xh married his younger ow and she has a young son, so I doubt he will be waking up

[Standing in Patience]

This is my greatest fear for my h. Not only will he be unable to truly have the relationship with his me but also with his children. And also with any future family-in-laws but grandchildren and extended family. Right now he doesn't know but some are questioning his judgment. I mean who abandons their children no matter their age? A vanisher. I wanted for my h, a relationship that he apparently didn't have with his own parents - close and loving. There were many children in my h family and suspect that h didn't get much attention in the long run. H somehow thinks he has a better relationship with each of them now. H speaks to them every few days for a few minutes catching up on their activities. So very strange.

[Anj]

Okay so 2 days ago I get BD #2.  I found a poem he wrote to OW about their special night.  I called him and just said, I know you are now sleeping with her, admit it.  He did.  We had a long talk.  He is moving out.  He had admitted to the emotional affair about a month ago.

The odd thing is he is very aware of what is going on with him.  He says how he can't give her up yet.  He points out other flaws he has had such as verbally abusing me.  He says when he comes through this he thinks he will be a much better husband and the man I deserve.  He thinks he will be begging for me back at some point and he hopes it is not too late. 

He told me how sorry OW is.  We know each other, not close friends but casual friends.  Her husband cheated on her twice and eventually left for good.  She had young children at the time.  To me I am so hurt by her as well because she knew what this would do to me having lived it herself.  She is 15 years older then I am so it is not like she is 23 with no life experience.  Also for the 9 years I have known her, she has been like the victim to all our mutual friends.  Poor OW...  So my questions...

First off I want to ruin her worse then I want to hurt my own Husband.  I want everyone that she knows to know what she has done.  I can do it too.  Should I?  Or is there a greater chance I will regret it later?  Will I just push my husband further away if I do something to tarnish her reputation?

Secondly I am confused on who I should tell.  Do I try to protect my husband from the backlash of the community?  I have only told 2 close friends and I actually feel like I am betraying him for telling.

And my last question.  I could be wrong but I honestly think I could talk to OW and get her to stay far away from my husband.  Part of me wants to do that.  I feel like if he doesn't have her and he doesn't have me, maybe he will come out of the fog faster.  The other part of me says I should just let it play out.  Like if I am the driving force it will just be a huge setback and I will be in store for OW #2.

I just don't feel like I am very enlightened yet.  It feels more like being a wimp then standing.  I want my husband back, I want to stay married.  But I feel like that makes me weak.  Why would I still want him after what he has put me through this last year?  Now I am the one waiting for him to want me...  It should be the other way around, but I am just here saying I don't care what you did, want me, love me.  Feels very pathetic.  (that was just a vent, I don't expect anyone to answer that)

Thank you for any advice!

Merged this thread in with first posts.

[StillStanding]

First off I want to ruin her worse then I want to hurt my own Husband.  I want everyone that she knows to know what she has done.  I can do it too.  Should I?  Or is there a greater chance I will regret it later?  Will I just push my husband further away if I do something to tarnish her reputation?

It's not about pushing your husband away, it's about being a decent human being. She will probably end up being ditched by your husband at some point. Although attacking her will make her a sympathetic person in his eyes; the only strength she has is what you give her.

Secondly I am confused on who I should tell.  Do I try to protect my husband from the backlash of the community?  I have only told 2 close friends and I actually feel like I am betraying him for telling.

The more people you tell, the more difficult you will make it for him and you. People will naturally wonder "If this guy is such a dog, why are you putting up with it?" Telling family -- yours or his -- will put pressure on them to "take sides", and can complicate future reconciliation.

And my last question.  I could be wrong but I honestly think I could talk to OW and get her to stay far away from my husband.  Part of me wants to do that.  I feel like if he doesn't have her and he doesn't have me, maybe he will come out of the fog faster.  The other part of me says I should just let it play out.  Like if I am the driving force it will just be a huge setback and I will be in store for OW #2.

DO NOT CONTACT HER. It is not worth the effort. Even if you are right and she does back off, he could get angry at you for meddling and trying to control him (and rightly so), and it doesn't prevent him for looking for "happiness" elsewhere.

I just don't feel like I am very enlightened yet.  It feels more like being a wimp then standing.  I want my husband back, I want to stay married.  But I feel like that makes me weak.  Why would I still want him after what he has put me through this last year?  Now I am the one waiting for him to want me...

The difference between Standing and being a doormat is setting and enforcing boundaries. You can learn detachment and to forgive him for what he's done without condoning his actions or allowing him to flaunt the affair in your face.

If he chooses to be with her right now, then going dark or initiating No Contact might be a good plan. He doesn't get to have the both of you. If he's already saying that he thinks he may be back, that's just a sign of how fragile their "relationship" is. If he wants to come back, you should consider requiring him to do counseling -- both marriage and individual -- before you let him back in. (And be prepared for him to reject that and run again; it'd be part of the cycle.)

[Anj]

Thank you for the reply SS!
One thing kind of shocked me though.  Do you mean to tell me in many situations people are not telling their own families?  I thought we would obviously tell our families.  Seems like I would be living a lie to pretend like it is all fine.  He is moving out.  Although we have talked about when we tell our families we will do it as a united front and say we both hope in the end we end up together.  I am hoping that way the only side they will take is the side of our marriage surviving. 
I am interested to hear how others handle family and close family friends.

[StillStanding]

I'm not saying don't tell your family, but be careful what you tell them. If he is moving out, then they should probably know that, especially if they come visit. But there's no need to tell them about OW. Let him shoulder that burden.

I can speak from experience; I over-shared with my family in the months following bomb drop, and my dad and my sister have a hard time accepting what my wife has done or why I choose to Stand.

(As it turns out, my wife has not told her family that she has moved out, at least not that I can tell. I still get cards coming to the house that are addressed to her, or to both of us.)

[Wed2Him?Whatever.]

First off I want to ruin her worse then I want to hurt my own Husband.  I want everyone that she knows to know what she has done.  I can do it too.  Should I?

Secondly I am confused on who I should tell.  Do I try to protect my husband from the backlash of the community?

And my last question.  I could be wrong but I honestly think I could talk to OW and get her to stay far away from my husband.  Part of me wants to do that.

Remember the MLC rule about the OP.  It IS NOT ABOUT HER.  Ruining her isn't necessary.
If you accept the fact your H is in crisis then please protect him, as you would your S or D.
I think that there is never any good to come from talking with the OP but that's up to you.

[StandandDeliver]

Personally, I would agree with those who say that you increase her importance if you acknowledge her existance. I think tha t the best thing to do is to completely disregard her - never use her name, never talk about her - make it clear that to you, she is such a great big nobody and that you have no intention of acknowledging her. Do not even talk about her with your H.

Furthermore, you will look like SO much the bigger person if you don't badmouth her. SO MUCH! It will probably frustrate her more than anything, because letting her know how upset you are gives her power. In fact I would go as far as to say, just act as if "of course he is with you, only messed up people would be with you, when he is psychologically sound again, you will be gone, so enjoy it while it lasts" (don't say it, just act as if!)

There is no predicting outcomes, but the less reactionary you are now, the less you will have to kick yourself over later!

[Affaircare]

So my questions...

First off I want to ruin her worse then I want to hurt my own Husband.  I want everyone that she knows to know what she has done.  I can do it too.  Should I?  Or is there a greater chance I will regret it later?  Will I just push my husband further away if I do something to tarnish her reputation?

I'll be blunt.  The more you think about HER and ruining HER and wanting to hurt HER, the more power you are giving her in your life.  Right now she already has your husband and you are giving her your energy and your time and your thoughts.  Personally, I would suggest that not only do you NOT "ruin her" but also stop giving her what is yours!  You and your husband stood before friends, family and either deity or society(judge) and made very specific promises to each other.  He has not promised to love her "for better, for worse; for richer, for poorer; in sickness and in health until death parts us" and he HAS made that promise to you.  Even more important, YOU made that promise to HIM (and right now you could count it as "worse" and "sickness").  So you owe him some things and he likewise has a duty to you that he just does not have with that other person.  So stop giving her your thoughts--those are yours and they are for YOU, Your husband, and Your family.  Stop giving her your time--that is to be invested in YOU becoming the woman you have the potential to be, in your husband to create the blazing hot love you two both want, and in your family to create a safe, healthy place for people to grow.  Stop giving her your energy--use that to ACT in a way that is different, and use that to become a better woman.

Let that other person "ruin herself" by her own choices.  You won't need to help.

Secondly I am confused on who I should tell.  Do I try to protect my husband from the backlash of the community?  I have only told 2 close friends and I actually feel like I am betraying him for telling.

On this one I believe I disagree with some of the folks who have commented before me, in that I believe in telling friends and family--BUT (and it is an ENORMOUSLY HUGE BUT) the telling is not in a spirit of "hurting them back" but rather in a spirit of telling the truth to those whose lives may be affected and hurt by his choices. Let me give some examples:

If you two have a couple who you two are both friends with, who have been your friends for a long time, and whom you both consider like "best buddy" kind of people...and one day they come to you and say "Oh hey, we've noticed you and H have been sort of quiet lately so can you get him on the phone and let's set up a date to go to the movies."  Those folks are going to have a mini-bombdrop of their own when they hear one day on the grapevine that you two are getting divorced.  I see nothing wrong with telling them, "Oh I am so sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but H has moved out.  He's seeing another woman and it has upset me terribly, so I hope you'll keep us in your prayers while we try to work through these hard times."  Likewise I don't see any wrong with informing people like your family or his family--especially if they ask you point blank. 

Here's why I've reached that conclusion.  For anyone such as his parents or your parents...they are going to find out when the divorce is final.  You can't avoid it.  Now if it has been kept from them, they will basically have a mini-BD of their own, and PART of their world is going to be affected by his choices.  When an MLCer does this, they don't only affect their own life and their spouse's life...and maybe OP and OP's spouse.  NO!! They also affect all the children, all the parents, all the aunts and uncles, all the cousins, etc. because all those people may lose up to half the time or more with an in-law or with grandchildren/cousin...   Thus, again if a family member says something like, "Will you and H be coming to Thanksgiving next month?" just tell the truth and say, "I am not positive if we'll both be there.  H has moved out and is living with another woman and we've been having some issues.  So please keep us in your prayers while we try to get through this." 

Finally, one of the reasons I believe as I do is that it is not YOU that is tarnishing his reputation (or the OW's rep) if you tell the truth.  It is THEIR CHOICE TO COMMIT ADULTERY  that is tarnishing their reputation!!   All you're doing is telling the truth, and if they were being a model spouse, telling the truth would POLISH their reputation.  So often MLCers will try to use that "guilt trip" method of covering up what their doing (again, because deep inside they know it's wrong), but it is not you telling the truth that dragging their name in the mud--it is their choice to be unfaithful that's doing that.    However, you can see why it's so important to NOT be telling people in a spirit of vengeance--because there is a vast difference between "I'm not covering up for your disastrous and hurtful choices" and "I'm tattling and getting others on my side by telling on you".  See it?

And my last question.  I could be wrong but I honestly think I could talk to OW and get her to stay far away from my husband.  Part of me wants to do that.  I feel like if he doesn't have her and he doesn't have me, maybe he will come out of the fog faster.  The other part of me says I should just let it play out. 

Ah, grasshopper.  This is a conclusion your husband has to come to on his own.  If he didn't have her and was still in the crisis part of his MLC, he would just find someone else or another "addiction" to try to avoid facing the crisis.  So my two cents: refer up above.  Don't give her more power, thought, time or energy. 

I just don't feel like I am very enlightened yet.  It feels more like being a wimp then standing.  I want my husband back, I want to stay married.  But I feel like that makes me weak.  Why would I still want him after what he has put me through this last year?  Now I am the one waiting for him to want me...  It should be the other way around, but I am just here saying I don't care what you did, want me, love me.  Feels very pathetic. 

Standing is not being a wimp.  It's being a HERO.  Standing is when the foundation of your vows is shook, and you go through "worse" and "sickness" and "poorer" all at the same time.  Standing is loving someone who is not being loving toward you because you made a promise and have the honor to uphold your promises.  Standing is not you just waiting around saying "I don't care what you did, want me, love me"-its saying "I made a covenant with you and I have the courage to honor my commitments even when it's difficult.  It does matter that you treated me poorly, and we will deal with that, but I will not budge from my responsibilities to you just because you decide to make poor choices for a while."  Standing is learning how to love yourself, and in the due course of time, if he chooses to come back, having the spine to say "Okay things will not ever be the same.  Here's what I need from a life partner."