[OliveOyl]

I'm thinking about the holidays.  We have spent most holidays with just H, me and Ss.  Not really the way I wanted it, so now is the time to start new traditions.  I thought many of us on this forum might benefit from others sharing their ideas for starting new holiday traditions.  Help, I need some ideas!

[What Next]

Okay I am very new to this and wondered if anyone out there who has survived Christmas or the 'Holiday Season' could offer some advice.

My H is out of the country so I don't have to fret over our Ds splitting their time between us or bumping into him ath the Inlaws houses but I want to thread carefully around the thorny issue of sending gifts or seasonal greetings.

Both girls (20 & 15) have mixed feelings at the moment but I am trying to ensure they maintain good relationships with their Dad and have told them they should not change their ways this year.  They then asked me if I was sending him a gift and that led me to think if I should and what I could send. 

Just wondered if any of you faced this dilemma last year and whether you exchanged gifts or even suggest what might be the perfect MLCer gift this year (tongue-in-cheek)? I am very tempted to send a mini library on MLC!

[mercury]

Hello His Angel,

What I did last year was I wanted one last Christmas for the 3 of us, so I did that.  I wouldn't do it this year because ow in the picture  and he lost that privilege, whether he know it or not or cares.  Since my D is 14, I'll have her pick out a few presents for him but I'm not giving him anything from me. I already bought one small gift for him for her to give him. I don't know what to tell you, I stopped "paving the way", I will not do it anymore since he's living with ow and honestly who he is right now is not someone I want home.  I can only suggest, look into your heart and decided. 

[Storm Rider]

There have been quite a few discussions about this one other sites and the general conclusions were that gifts are often seen as pressure, so be careful in general. Something small with not too much meaning could be best. It is hard as he is out of the country so you have to decide in advance.

Last year, I was going give my H nothing nothing, at his request over several weeks. A couple of days before xmas, he started to talk about this great book he had got me for xmas, and why it was so great. So I rushed out and brought a small stationary item to put under the tree. On xmas day, he said "but we agreed no gifts, I did not get you anything" Turns out the book given to me on behalf of the toddlers, not him. It caused a lot of tension, and his gift sat unmoved on the kitchen bench for a month until I threw it in the trash. Two days later, he asked if I had seen it and has EXTREMELY hurt I had thrown it out.

In general, it seems MLCers either really miss their old lives and want to be part of xmas, it is not uncommon for some to try to return during this stage, although not usually lasting.

The other side is those, like my H, who get guilted out, hate xmas and want nothing to do with it. Bomb drops for this lot may occur around this time.

If you have an indication as to how stressed or happy your H is that xmas is approaching, it may give you an indication of which type he will be and how to play it.

[What Next]

Mercury.

I was seeing it as an opportunity to 'Pave the way' but even I know its too early to be sowing those seeds with him, as he really just wants to ignore Christmas this year.  I'll make sure the girls pick up a gift and I'll think about sending a covering card from me.

StormRider 

If you have an indication as to how stressed or happy your H is that xmas is approaching, it may give you an indication of which type he will be and how to play it.

This actually provides me with the answer as he has already stated he wants to keep a low profile this Christmas and I suspect he will only see any gesture of mine as pressure!

Think I'll concentrate on what to buy for myself instead!!

[Phoenix]

Dear All,
How do you do it at the holidays?  My H, D13 and I are still under the same roof though his affair with my "friend" and disconnection from daughter and me continues.  He finally reappeared yesterday after being out all night without a word (OW, no doubt) then avoided D and me by spending the day working in the yard. 

He says he is making other living arrangements after I set a boundary of not seeing other women while still living with me and our daughter, but now I wonder if that was the way to go.  Regardless, the holidays will be hard.  They were always great family times.  We asked if he wanted to accept any of the  Thanksgiving invitations we've received, but he said he does not want the "cozy family" time my daughter and I do, so we should make our own plans.  I went ahead and did that though D and I are not looking forward to the loneliness and grief that will surround us as we try to enjoy the holidays with happy families and friends. 

How do you do it?  How do you maintain some traditions and happiness for yourself and your child(ren), not be tempted to try to include H or feel bad if you don’t or if H is alone (can you believe I am even thinking about that given he has another woman?), or spends it with HER or mutual friends of yours, etc.  Everything that used to be the happiest time of the year for our family now feels terrible and the idea of "new traditions" isn't helping either.  My daughter and I do volunteer and give to others and that does help, but there is still so much sorrow for us. 

Also, my daughter has several holiday performances coming up, but does not want to invite her father.  He is very disconnected from her, gives her no notice in the house, and she feels would only be faking it for other people if he came and pretended to be jovial and "great!" as he seems able to portray to others. He is such a stranger to her that it literally makes her uncomfortable to have him there.  Still, it feels like we are just furthering distancing him from the family by excluding him.

Does the truth about MLC ever come to light or will friends always think he is just fine and making rationale decisions when those of us living with him are witnessing extreme and completely foreign behavior and statements.  He seems able to be his old self around everyone else.  And because he, the other woman, her spouse and children (living separate from her now) and my daughter and I are all in the same social circle, it is very isolating.  I am working to broaden my circle, but that is not easy now either.  One of the most hurtful things is how many people try to play both sides of the fence or take the adulterers’ “side” as though they can’t help it or something must have been terribly wrong for these formally likeable people to betray their marriages, children, the larger social group, begin drinking and acting out in other ways, etc.  How does if often end up that the ones being betrayed and trying to stand, are more lonely and more blamed than those who do the betraying?  It feels like another layer of betrayal and is mind boggling to me.

I would love tips on:

surviving—even enjoying the holidays---with a disconnected MLC spouse and while working to detach, but not give up.

Handling situations when children do not want a parent invited to their activities due to MLC and an affair and their feelings about it (keep in mind OW was also someone very close to and previously very trusted by my daughter)?

Managing the hurt and fallout from behind the back gossip, the humiliating things the OW tells our mutual friends about her and my husband, two-faced “friends,” etc. 

Is there ever some kind of justice or balancing of the scale that occurs?  It seems the LBS bears all the hurt and burden and the MLC spouse goes off to experience a free and easy second youth with their affair partner on our family’s dime and with no regard for the unbearable pain, grief and loss. 

I do not mean to sound whiny, but good grief, when do the “good guys” get a few victories?

Thanks all,
Phoenix

[rememberer]

Hi Pheonix,

I'm pretty new to all this too. I have often wondered about all the same things you have posted here. I'm waiting to see the anwers from more of the 'seasoned' members, however I will offer my opinion.

In the end, it doesn't matter really about what other people are thinking. YOU know the truth, and isn't that what life is about? Finding truth? YOU and HE know the real truth.

In time, it will catch up with him. Every action has an equal reaction. I still believe in KARMA, and JUSTICE in the world. Bide your time, stay true to who you are and the good vaules you believe in. I think time and patience is the key.

I, too, am wondering about how to manage the holidays with the deep sorrow that I'm feeling inside. I have always loved Christmas, and have decided that I'm going to enjoy it to the best of my ability, with or without him.

Christmas is about giving. I'm going to give to my children, my friends, and my family in the most generous way I know how. I'm going to decorate my house to the nines, bake with my kids, go shopping, sing Christmas carols, go out and be with people and still enjoy life! I'm going to let all the goodness in me shine through , whether I'm grieving or not.

And I'll let people make up their own minds about the situation. I still believe.....

You are not alone. As you see there are many others here enduring similar situations,,and there are also many other horrible, devastating things that happen to people everyday. Hold on, find your happiness within yourself and continue to believe in all the good things!

[rediscover]

I have two D's, 9 and 12.  My H moved out into his own home in September.  D12 has not had contact with H in almost 8 weeks, and D9 has had little contact since he moved and has currently not had contact in two weeks. 
The best advice I was given is that it is not my responsibility to maintain the relationship between my children and their father.  It's not mine to repair.  My girls never hear me say anything negative about their father and they are fully aware that at anytime they are able to see him.  I don't speak badly about my H, I love him and he's going through a hard time.  I pray for him and I pray for our family. 

The girls and I were going to go out for Thanksgiving dinner and spend lots of money at a high end restaurant, but very close family friends invited us to dinner.  I gave the girls a choice.  They decided to have dinner with the friends. 

As for Christmas, we usually spend Christmas Eve with H's family and Christmas Day at home.  We are not going to H's family for Christmas Eve.  Christmas Day we will be at home and maybe we'll go away for a few days after.  The girls have picked out a fun colored artificial tree, instead of our usual train ride to the tree lot to cut down our own tree.  I let them decide what they wanted to do. 
They have only taken our Christmas stockings out of the garage and choose not to decorate the tree.  However, they do want to hang Daddy's stocking next to mine on the mantel.

If my H was in the house and being disconnected I would still give the girls the choice to celebrate the holiday as they wished.  They are the most sensitive and hurt right now.  It's about them having good memories to carry with them and get them through.  I will be happy as long as they are happy.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Regardless of whether the MLC spouse is involved or not involved, it is just important to celebrate with the ones that you love. I agree that the children suffer the most and you need to be sensitive to their needs.

To answer your questions: respect your daughter's wish not to be involved with your h and ow. She feels betrayed and you need to support her wishes. This is not being disrespectful to you h because your h is involved in disrespectful behavior.

Most people do not support adultery. I  think you will realize that those that support the marriage and are honest will get the support over the adulterous couple. At first, people tried to talk some sense into my w but it did not work. They began to isolate themselves from the situation. In my situation, it was the hot news for the summer and it has now died out.

My advice is to have a few close friends and cut out those that you don't feel are helpful or worse will carry tails to others.

Enjoy the holidays (((Hugs)) to all the children

[Love being on higher grounds]

My best advicce...as last years holidays were atrocious...really...

DO WHATEVER IT IS YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS AN?OR FAMILY ALWAYS DO!

Do not change anything!!

IF your spouse wants to be a part of it...w/o bringing everyone else down, let them

if they dont want to take part, dont try to make them!

I tried to accomodate H, along with everyone else last year...to keep the peace...it would have been much better just to carry on as normal and let them decide what they want to do...

hugs,
L