[Mitzpah]

MLC can take a LONG time.  If he woke up six years later, and spent two years in recovery, think about the fact that this was a very high energy MLCer...  Not having sustained this kind of life before, how long could he PHYSICALLY run that hard and fast?  What about our less energetic MLCers, the ones who creep along, and never have that endorphin crashing, adrenaline fading WTF hangover... how long do they take?  Ten, fifteen years?

My thoughts exactly... when I consider that my h. had two close friends die of cancer, son diagnosed with cancer, lost his job all in 2006 - we went through son's grueling treatment for about 2 years (he is fine now), he started to descend again at the end of 2008 - 2009 (our silver wedding)- BD at end of 2010 - I wonder what I am looking at 

That is precisely why I have to trust in God and His timing.

[Albatross]

Very insightful story... Thank You for sharing with us. What I get that high energy replayers have addictive prerogatives by design. So they even harder lost self then others, means they are like substance addicts, instead getting chemicals per os they produce them in own body...

So, I start to believe that type of MLCers depend of addiction as a engine for running. Fuel is definitely volume of shadow and mass of addictive substances, does not matter from real substances or hormonal.
Both of those addictions produce more fog, means less of clarity.

In other hand wallowers obviously not prone to be substance addictive, neither chemical or hormonal. So, they are more depressed in general and have less energy. I will add that wallowers are more in fantasy world then high energy replayers because they haven't enough fog and fuel for doing thing in reality.

Lets summarize, there is variables:
1. prone to fantasize
2. prone to be addictive,
3. volume of shadow (how much repressed issues, how much unresolved issues, how much repressed feelings),

More ingredients, and how much of those, crisis is bigger.

Functions can be: Intensity of replay, TIME.

So, bigger shadow, bigger addiction of hormones, biggest addiction of substances, dens fog = very intense replay / big destruction / less clarity / more monster.

My MLCer is prone to fantasize, no addiction of substances, addictive in hormones, big shadow (she was great woman before MLC, means shadow is great also ). And she is most of time wallower. She strongly project in OM's how she see idealistic man. OM1 is her "dream", she can't have him, means they both fantasize and have illusion of platonic "love", emotional affair. OM2 is unusual man but not a man of her "dreams", not idolized. She have PA with him, which doe not make her happy at all, but she have to do it from time to time, or some other reasons.

Just my 2 cents.

[trusting]

In other hand wallowers obviously not prone to be substance addictive, neither chemical or hormonal. So, they are more depressed in general and have less energy. I will add that wallowers are more in fantasy world then high energy replayers because they haven't enough fog and fuel for doing thing in reality.

I have a wallower and I do think he has addictions.  He is not a substance abuser (that I can tell), though he certainly drinks much more the ever did before, which was rare.  But I would agree with it being more of a fantasy world. 

My husband is now about to enter into his seventh year of noticeable MLC. I do see vast improvements in some areas, where he is acting so much more like the old him, but he is still running and still not attempting any relationship with me. 

The part about the running, keeping busy all the time, that is my husband.  To a T. 

[Hmmm]

I think I have a wallower.  He is aware that running, drinking and work were self medication-he is the most intelligent person I know.

Very depressed and has suicidal thoughts.

Caring and wonderful with kis and his Dad but will NOT contact his troubled Mum-far too painful for him.

Does not believe that any marriage is truly happy-even though I genuinely was and still find him very sexy.

I really really hope this doesn't take 6 years

[Thunder]

Reading your friends story almost made me wish my X was a high energy MLCer.  Even though it took him 6 years to crash and burn I think his actions were so severely destructive that it MADE him finally wake up.  A person just can't maintain that way of living for too long.

My wallower doesn't live his fantasy.  I feel some days he could live like this for ever.  Yes, there is depression but he hasn't gone off the deep end.  No partying or drinking or women yet I think in his head he wants to be that partier.  He would love to find someone new and exciting but pretty much gave up trying.
Now he just runs races, works out every day, works tons of overtime and exhausts himself completely.

After close to 4 years I do see some improvements but nothing close to working on himself.
Hmmm, my X is highly intelligent also.  But I don't think it really matters in this crisis.  They still do things that are so self-destructive.  I see mine getting in a lot of financial trouble.

Thank you so much for posting this.  I guess the "waking up" moment hit me the most.  Like others have said I often wondered what happens when they finally do lift the fog and see what they have done.  Finally, one story about how it happens with some.

I guess rock bottom is different with different people.

Looking forward to part 2.   

[sleepless]

Interesting insight. Attaching

[UKStander]

Moment, that MLC friend wouldn't be Brian Newman would it?  There are a few sentences in that story you posted that are verbatim Brian Newman (from his site fortysixty.org - or at least that's where I found it, but not sure it's up there any more). 

The echoes could be script, of course... In which case VERY spooky. 

As some people haven't ever seen the B.Newman story, I'll post it here sometime, for interest.  It's one that I've gone back to many, many times to remind myself what MLC is and how it looks from inside the MLC-ers point of view.... 

Now to read the rest of the article. Can't wait!

[UKStander]

Me again. It's not Brian Newman's story because it ends differently.  Brian Newman ended up back with his wife, Phoenix, the love of his life. And he said his crisis was about 4.5 years in all, if I remember rightly. Spooky, therefore that this MLC-er uses very similar phrases (the 'frying pan' intensity of the crisis; the false 'persona' that they don, almost like a new suit of clothes, and sometimes literally new clothes of course ! 

Stayed, Venus, others I've talked with in depth - this is why I feel some pity for the MLC-ers, why I can't always get up the anger towards them, and why, in the end, I feel more sorrow for them than anything else. I truly believe that they are in survival mode, despite all appearances. Which just makes it SO frustrating that they won't get help. 

I've yet to see a post-MLC story in which the MLC-er openly talks of the demons.  That would be something. But perhaps it's too much for most MLC-ers to reveal, as it would be a betrayal of their families to go public.  For anyone who wants to go down to that level, the demons are very well explained in Alice Miller's book, The Truth Will Set You Free. I think she worked in this area of psychology (the effects of buried, unrecognised pain) for much of her career. When you grasp that bit, I think it's hard to be angry with an MLC-er for even two seconds . . .     

Stayed, I don't think there's very much wilful self-indulgence in there. I know it's hard to believe because our society has a ready-made, forumulaiic, Hollywood-instilled  template of the adulterous husband (or wife) and our MLC-ers fit so very neatly into it - at first glance, or even 100th glance. (The Wolf of Wall St recently helped to confirm that the self-indulgent male is alive and well.)  But MLC is only self-indulgent in the same way that we are when we over-indulge in anything. We KNOW it's wrong, we know payback time is coming, but we can't stop ourselves. I don't believe that they are aware of the hurt that the self-medication is causing - not at the time.

Ironic though it is, and though it doesn't help a fast passage out of here and to peace for the LBS, the MLC-ers deserve our pity. Dreadful word. Maybe I mean sympathy.  Head-spinning stuff.

[a]

Hi All

Wow I did not expect such an overwhelming response. 

I just need to make a correction I didn’t receive this story recently I found it recently and asked permission to post it here recently.

Just a little background on J, my friend who send me this email.  He send this email about 3 years ago when I was still at the depths of my despair.  We met at a Buddhist retreat and I think he could see an emptiness in me.  We got to chatting and he opened up about his experience.

I know that J does not think he went through a MLC, he does not believe this to be a psychological condition with prescriptive patterns of behavior.  To him his experience was just that his experience unique to his perceptions, projections and conditioning – he actually refers to it as a spiritual crisis.  In his email he referred to his crisis as a depression and only called it a MLC for my benefit (I think at the time he realized this is what I needed to process my pain).  At the time I needed to find a reason for the way XH was behaving and MLC seemed to give a possible answer.

Today he has no regrets.  He is on very good terms with his XW and her partner as well as his daughters.  He has found someone else to share his life with, someone more suited to the path he is taking as a practicing Buddhist.  At the time of his crash his XW had already found someone else to share her life with so there was never an opportunity for reconciliation.

J used to be an A type personality.  He was driven to succeed at any cost.  Today he is far removed from that materialistic, success orientated person.  Today he is a teacher and a really gentle, kind man with a very good sense of humor.

  J has a courageousness that I have not seen in many people.  In the end he was willing to sit with his pain and endure every agonizing jab so that he could become a more self aware person.  He admits that there are many paths to enlightenment and that he could have achieved self awareness without destroying his marriage. 

However at the time he was just not aware of what he was dealing with, he simply did not have the consciousness to understand.   

I don’t think my XH will follow the same path as J. My XH does not have the fortitude to face the pain.  Often we learn how to respond to situations in our childhood from our parents. XH parents avoid pain, I remember when they had to have their Boston terrier euthanized, she was their baby, they went on holiday and got a good friend to euthanize her while they were away, they did not want to know when it was going to happen.  XH has never had the courage to face me, my family or friends since BD.  He has embraced OW family and friends he has simply moved into a new life with new people and I truly believe that his marriage to OW will last.  It’s who XH is.  He is not interested in finding inner meaning and is still very much concerned with status and image.

I really think if MLC is a journey some take and that  it is unique to them even if there are some characteristic behaviors and common feelings.

I will post stage 2 as soon as I find it – I will make every effort to look for it this weekend.  It’s not in my mail box but I know I saved it somewhere.

Take care
Moment

p.s  UKStander - J could very well have used similar phrases as Brian Newman and MLCers on the 4060 website because at the time I had sent him articles from this website. He was still healing from the outfall and I thought the articles would help him. I do believe he is sincere and maybe at the time he unconsciously used similar phrases because he could identify with the feelings expressed in those phrases.  I am not sure if I asked him to write about his account today that it would not be somewhat different – his perceptions have changed a great deal.  He has learnt the art of mindfulness. And his perceptions of the world and human behavior has changed.

[holdinon2hope]

Attaching..does give so much onsite to the Mlcer n some Ow in their lives.