[xyzcf]

Hi HT...I hope this clarifys

I said:

I look at the stats on 2nd marriages and the research that has stated that people who were unhappy in their marriages who divorced were not as happy as those who remained married 5 years later.....anyway, doesn't matter....we all have our own very deep reasons why we stand or not.

I often read how people are trying to put a time frame on how long they will stand. I hear people criticize standers for waiting, for allowing life to pass us by. I read people saying that why would anyone waste years of their lives, it is too long, it is too hard. I hear all kinds of ideas about what is happening, our spouses are bi polar or narcissistic, lots of labels and difficulty in believing in MLC is a process that will have an end.The data we have about MLC is often discarded as not being valid or true because it is not based upon pure scientific methodology but rather the reporting of situations by individuals. There is no way to do a double blind study that I could see on MLC, so the data is not always recognized as being correct.

Thus, what I stated is perhaps my attempt at trying to encourage people to hold on longer. It is tough, it is really difficult and we become bone weary...I know that. One of the main reasons I continue to stand is the support I get from other standers.

Those stats are only one reason why if your spouse is having a crisis and there is some chance that he/she may exit and wish to come home again, that it may be a better choice than starting over again with someone new. Regardless of the reason our marriages are dead, and yes, the MLCer is the one who runs but I see LBSers running too. I see LBSers less than one year from BD, trying to find that special person again, and I see people getting hurt again from that quest.

I just read hyperglad's thread. She, and others who talk about their reconciled marriages always seem to have the same message to me...that the relationship is better than it was before.

So, I was pointing out that indeed the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence, for the LBSer. Certainly it might be and again, I have stated that this is a really personal decision that only each LBSer can make.

RCR started this site I think to try and educate LBSers about the reality of MLC and what to expect. I have always felt that here is where we encourage others to do what they can to save their marriages. If I "give up" at some point too, then it is over. There would not be a very good possibility to reconcile once I decided I was done.

That's only my opinion though and very few others share my viewpoint.

Hope that clarifys.

[Thunder]

xyzcf,

I agree with you 100%!!!!

I remember thinking ..ok, the 2 year mark is coming...it's almost time for him to get back to normal now.
Boy, was I wrong.

It has been over 3 1/2 years now and the changes I have seen in my X have been painfully SLOW..but I do see them and I'm willing to wait it out in the hopes that we can be a real couple again.  He is worth the wait.  Our relationship is worth the wait.

He so far has not complicated the situation with another person and I won't either.
Until the day comes when I feel my standing is harming me, I'll remain standing.

[Anjae]

Stayed, like Limitless, when I withdraw from mine he vanished. No pursuit, no nothing.

What pain Stayed? I have no pain. The pain was gone years ago. So was any emotional attachment. What depression? No idea what you are taking about. I was merely saying that imposing boundaries does not bring a MLCer out of crisis and asking OP why boundaries can shorten the crisis since boundaries are for the LBS, not the MLCer. My life? I have a new set of friends, my photography, may film groups, have done several courses, and moving into a science oriented future life, etc.

The apology may satisfy the LBS early on, from a certain point on it no longer matters. At least that is how I see it.

J’s exwife found what many LBS find, a new life, a new person in their lives. Some of us here have a new person in our lives, but that does not seem to seat well with the board. So, some of us may refrain from taking about it or stop posting.

Kikki, most MLCers when the crisis is over apologise, just like J. And try to make amends. But often the LBS has moved on and wants nothing to do with the MLCer. The apologies and wanting to make rights come too late. 

Like Limitless I no longer care if my actions may, or may not affect Mr J crisis. I have a life to live.

J’s makes sense from someone who after his crisis went to Buddhism.

I think as the LBS gets stronger and healthier, I think the MLCer rev's up their behaviour and gets worse and worse. 

Agree. But that would be, again, damned if you do, damned if you don't. So, better do whatever is best for us.

[Thunder]

Anjae,

Please don't think meeting someone new and trying to find happiness is not welcome on this board.  I know it is geared towards standing but not everyone can do this.

I truly envy anyone who finds a new relationship.  I do.  I tried, thinking I could just move on and put this chapter of my life behind me, but I couldn't.  It didn't work.

It worked after my first H left me for an ow but not this time.  I realized 2 things.  My first H was a narcasistic (sp) man who only cared about himself.  He came from a very dysfunctional family.  Very selfish.  My second H was a very caring, highly moral man who loved me....even though he was in the grips of his crisis.

Secondly. the first time met a great guy I was not ready to have a relationship with and hurt him very bad.  I felt that guilt for a very long time and decided I didn't want to meet someone else until I was in a healthy place.

There was just no one I found I wanted to be with so I gave up the search and decided to make me happy...some how all by myself.  It's been a struggle but I'm learning more and more about myself every day.
I'm finding peace I never felt before.

If you find someone to help you through this nightmare great, but be very honest with him and yourself.

[HeartTattoo]

I look at the stats on 2nd marriages and the research that has stated that people who were unhappy in their marriages who divorced were not as happy as those who remained married 5 years later.....anyway, doesn't matter....we all have our own very deep reasons why we stand or not.

What I don't understand is this quote & its relevance to standing.  Is it saying that people in 2nd marriages, who were unhappy & D'ed in their first M's & were now in a 2nd M were less happy after 5 years than unhappily M'ed people who stuck out their first M's? 

I still don't see any relevance to standing as our choice to stick with an "unhappy" M is taken away from us by our runaway MLCer.  The choices for us are not D'ing & remarriage vs. sticking out an "unhappy" M.  Our choices are standing or not standing (which might include a remarriage).  Don't see how the quote refers to this.

Sorry if I'm being dense.

[Pixiegirl]

xyzcf,

I agree with you 100%!!!!

I remember thinking ..ok, the 2 year mark is coming...it's almost time for him to get back to normal now.
Boy, was I wrong.

It has been over 3 1/2 years now and the changes I have seen in my X have been painfully SLOW..but I do see them and I'm willing to wait it out in the hopes that we can be a real couple again.  He is worth the wait.  Our relationship is worth the wait.

He so far has not complicated the situation with another person and I won't either.
Until the day comes when I feel my standing is harming me, I'll remain standing.

I've lived with my H off and on for his MLC. Until a few months ago when I found this site I wasn't even aware he was in MLC. Just thought he went nuts. I can recall signs of MLC back in late 2007 and it just progressed. Late 2010/11 is when he started BD's and searching for his youth. This is the 4th time he has left. I have no clue how I have survived this up until now. My H doesn't have OW yet either. He's too in to himself and living the single life hanging with the boys, racing cars and spending money.

[Anjae]

Pixiegirl, early on our relationships with another person may not work out. Or not the way we wanted to. For me that is part of our learning and growing. Some of us were with the MLCer since our late teens, we have no other experience of a adult relationship.

The board does not exactly disapprove of a LBS finding someone else. Especially if it is years down the road, but there is sometimes a sense that if a LBS end up taking that road it is not the same as to the reconcile with the MLCer. Not all of us will reconcile. And, usually, it is the LBS who chooses not to reconcile.

The second marriages “scorn” intrigues me. Several board members are on their second marriage and no one thinks their marriages are less worthy or that they should not stand for their MLCer. And many second marriages (or third ones) last longer and are happier than first marriages. I’ll use Jed Diamond again, both he and his wife are on their third marriage, they have been married for decades and a good marriage. People grow, change, improve, evolve.

[Pixiegirl]

Anjae,
I agree whole heartedly that although painful, sometimes things just don't work out. It takes two people and during this MLC I feel like I have been the only one trying to keep our marriage together. I honestly devoted too much time trying to make it work and lost myself in the battle. I have to find "me" again.

I truly believe that we all have to decide for ourselves what is best for us. As for me, I am not making any decision right now because I am not healed. It's still too early for me and I have a lot of healing to do.  Everyone has their own journey and I do believe each journey is different. I have no desire for another relationship right now but who knows how I will feel in 6 months or a year from now.

I think some at this point on the journey are ready to move on to another relationship. I think about that and I know in my mind I am not ready but apparently they are. I have friends that are on their 2nd and 3rd marriages and most are very happy. Some are just settling as the other marriages failed and they don't want to be alone. I also have a friend that was her(now) husband's MLC affair. I watched all that unfold years ago and now they have been happily married for 12 years.

Personally, my beliefs will not allow me to pursue another relationship until I am divorced. I will know when the time is right as I continue to trust God with his plan for me.

I think the goal for me is to be happy whether I am with someone or not. I'm not there yet but I sure am on my way

[The lighthouse]

Attaching to the thread.  Thank you Moment for posting your friend's letter and to your friend for giving his permission for you to do so.  His very insightful story and the comments and reactions of LBS's have been very interesting and thought provoking.

Being a glass half full kind of person I would rather focus on the fact that he had the courage to expose himself with such honesty and articulation than focus on whether he fully 'got it' or not at the time he wrote it.  We are all works in progress until our last breaths.

Sadly, I don't think my H would ever be able to express himself so well even if he does at some point 'get it'.

As for the first marriage versus second marriage statistics, I assume statistically second marriages have less chance of surviving because of the 'baggage' we bring into the second marriage from the first.  Perhaps the focus should be more on whether we are 'healed' or not from our previous relationship before we enter into another.

First, second or third marriage, doesn't matter if we haven't done the work before we enter a new relationship.  My second marriage with my MLC'er lasted 19 years (together 23).  Standing for me isn't just about hoping my H will come through the tunnel one day and want to reconcile, it's also about being 'still' while I heal and grow so that if I come to a place through this process where I no longer wish to make myself available for a possible 'new' relationship with my H, I am a better person to move onto the next relationship and give that person my best self.

[summer90]

I would like to thank moment and J for the MLC post.  It certainly got me thinking and has caused much emotion and lots of positive discussion on this wonderful forum.  I am never surprised about the depth of feeling these discussions hold, as we the LBS are often standing under some incredibly difficult circumstances.  Most of us have lost our beloved life partner to MLC and that is not an easy catastrophe to come to terms with.

The letters make me realize that the MLCers are all different in so many ways in the amount of damage they cause and array of different "symptoms" they display. The part that is universal seems to be the cause being  family of origin issues and not the lack of love or integrity of their spouse.  That is very evident to me in J's letters.

The other ingredient in the MLC mess that seems to make the most difference from all the posts I have read about the MLCers, is the "core being" of the person in crisis.  If the MLCer was a person of high moral character and integrity, very dependable and trustworthy, it will, I think, be impossible not for them to return to that person after the crisis and also improve.  This is not to say the person will not inflict an enormous amount damage and hurt during their crisis, but the core will always remain.  I don't believe a parson can lose this part of themselves forever.

The other part of the letter that struck me most was that it didn't matter what J's wife did or how she conducted herself,  he still managed to justify his MLC actions which told me that the discussions on this forum on "leaving them to their crisis and getting on with our own lives" is paramount. We need to make our own lives happy enough to live with or without the MLCer.

Standing is an incredibly difficult task and I have great admiration for all standers on this forum for their belief and unconditional regard of their spouse under almost impossible circumstances.