[DaRealist]

On the flip side, I distinctly remember one other time when he was pushing divorce that he basically asked what it would take to get me to give up.  And yes, he was monstering quite a bit at that time.  He was deliberately trying to hurt me.

My xw was upset that I wouldn't sign the separation agreement.  She knew it hurt me when I found out about her infidelity.  She called me one morning on the way to work and basically said, "I know you don't tolerate cheating.  I'll go **** him again.  Will you sign then?"

Very deliberate.  And still painful to recollect.

[trusting]

Very deliberate.  And still painful to recollect.

Uggh, how awful.  And I can imagine a conversation you will never be able to forget.  I know I won't forget what my husband said to me.

[Dontgiveup]

Do not remember RCR exact words (sadly I lack DGU photographic memory) on the subject but it was something like your MLCer may try to hurt you so that you give up/leave them alone.

RCR's article "Love & Hate"
An MLCer's actions can be cruel because their aim is for pain with the intention of hurting you so that you will hate them, lose hope and give them what they want.

[Anjae]

Thank you, DGU.  Since you were so kind to post the article name, here is the link  to the whole article to all those interested: http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_understanding-infidelity_love-and-hate.html

[xyzcf]

Ok, all I was saying is not every MLCer deliberately tries to hurt the LBSer. In the quote from RCR's article she uses the words "can be cruel" not all will be.

In the same article, as she discusses the MLCer's depression which she considers real as she states:

 

In a state of depression Self love lies buried beneath rubble and until it surfaces the MLCer is incapable of showing love for anything or anyone. There is no caring substance, understanding this can help you to avoid interpreting the lack of caring making it personal. It is not personal; he is dead inside.

A person who is dead inside IMHO is not capable of deliberately doing anything. They are truly in survival mode and although their actions may feel cruel, they may indeed NOT be deliberate in their actions to hurt us.

Since they do all kinds of strange and weird things, I think that the LBSer must always remember that this is not about them. The destruction that they cause is fueled by the MLCers desperate attempt to stop the pain that is raging inside of them. The LBSer is often collateral damage in the war that is going on inside of the MLCer, in effect, we are the innocent bystanders in all this mess.

In looking at things from this view point, the LBSer is truly able to "let go" of the anger, rage and bitterness that will destroy the LBSer if it is allowed to remain unresolved within indefinitely. The energy spent in feeling as though you are somehow the target for his/her crisis will be dissipated and you will be free to embrace life without your loved one and move forward towards peace in your own world.

[DaRealist]

All very true, xyzcf.  That is a very healthy way to look at it and find peace in this situation.  However, there is a little bit of cognitive dissonance here.  Something is deliberate.  It took too much planning, secrecy and rebellion to pull off what my xw and most MLCers do.  The running is deliberate.  In my xw's case, the cheating was.  She chased him and gave herself to him on a silver platter.  My xw didn't just fall out of bed into a brand new apartment -- lights, water, cable and gas turned on with brand new furniture -- while I'm scrambling to save the house from foreclosure after she didn't pay the mortgage for several months without me knowing.  Could she have been hoarding the mortgage and utilities money to save for her apartment?  I can't force myself to entertain that thought right now but if that's the case, then that is certainly deliberate.

Methinks the pictures she posted on her facebook page of her apartment and her keys weeks before she told me she was moving out was deliberately cruel and secretive at the same time.  She cut me out of her life and when I pointed it out to her she said, "that's intentional."  She took the truck, chose not to pay the loan and eventually had it repossessed.  The very next day, she is driving a brand new Acura TL.  She has deliberately not told me about it to this very day, two months later.  She only owed $2300 to get the truck back.  How can she pay for a car?  That took planning and deliberately turning a blind eye to any damage to me and my credit rating.

So...I'm not sure where that leaves us.  I agree that she is dead inside.  I believe she is not in control of herself.  I don't know all of the why's and the how's.  I know this isn't my wife.  I also know her actions...or the way she has acted...or the way she was influenced to act...was definitely deliberate.

[rover77]

I think they do it on purpose..they enjoy it...a sense of power and control..maybe to punish...I think they are on an emotional rampage..and the LBS is their easiest target

[patience.of.a.saint]

I'm fairly certain that mine is in a depression as well as MLC. His aunt was the one who told me she thought he was in a depression because she said she recognized things in him from when she had depression. She has told me some about depression and what it's like and she says there are days when you can barely feel like functioning for yourself, much less put forth any effort toward anyone else. She also said that you don't know that you are in it or need help unless someone tells you and for her, her friend had to mention it several times before it even registered that she should do something about it. I don't think there is intent to hurt someone in depression.

MLC...I think there can be. They don't want us to be there and be nice. They want us to hate them so they have the excuse to move on. I am with the 2nd MLCer of my life...yep I got two of them...lucky me! My first one does not care whatsoever if he hurts me. He's the dad of my kids and didn't even remember to call my daughter for her birthday. He's been in MLC since he left in 2005. I could tell stories up to wazoo of all the dumb things he's said or done in the last 9.5 years. I got to thinking the other day that it's hard to imagine ever loving that particular man. He is an alcoholic so he was only brave enough to hurt me when he had a few drinks. At this point in dealing with him, I don't think he intends to hurt...just does not care one way or another. I do think in his case that his current, 20years younger, wife feeds him a lot of what he says to me. He's really not brave enough to cause conflict on his own. It's either alcohol or wife induced with him.

[living with Hope]

I go between he has/is out to hurt me with the things he is saying/doing because he hates himself and he needs to transfer that hate somewhere else or because he needs to have me angry or emotional towards him so that he can justify what he is doing or feeling.

I know that some of the things he has done he knows exactly the effect it is going to have on me and it is not positive.  He knows.  I just don't know if he knows why he is doing it or if he can stop himself.

I think that is part of the depression.  Not really being in control of his proper thoughts and that leads to making decisions that hurts those who love you or surround you.

[Ready2Transform]

I think it's important to remember we still have the power to control our own experience, and do not have to accept as our fate the hurt they inflict, intended or not.  Just like with a teen who is hormonal and will react with extreme emotions to test boundaries or try to grasp at control, there does not have to be a blind acceptance that their will is law.  That's where, if we're in contact with them, responding not reacting comes into play, and keeping a 40 foot view of the situation so we're not thrown to and fro in their spiral.  And if we choose (or have chosen for us, with our vanishers) to not be in contact, this sometimes goes a long way to actually stop the hurts from happening, and strangely enough, protect the love we have for them from the damage the replay behavior inflicts.