[lawprofessor]

Yes to the violence.

As with this whole mess of MLC, there are mental aspects that make themselves known.

For me, my ex has a brother with schizophrenia and another with an anger management problem.  Both are drug addicts.  His mother has issues with depression. 

I think the underlying symptomology was there all alone.  The MLC made those symptoms or tendencies worse, exaggerated them if you will.

With J, my BFF, he was treated for bipolar disorder for a while after until he became stabilized in his healing.

I do not think these people per se have a personality disorder fully.  They have tendencies surely, at least in the case of my ex.  The MLC exaggerated those tendencies.  For me with my ex I saw signs that I did not connect at the time in our past history.  However, he, for the most part, kept the symptoms under control and very minimal in frequency over our long relationship.  Until MLC.

The question for me is sort of a chicken and an egg question.  Which came first?  Did ex have the symptoms because he grew up in a house where crazy was the norm- ie was his behaviors that I would consider symptoms part of a learned behavior set or real symptoms?  In his case, I think he feared being labeled schizophrenic but he also learned behaviors.  So environmental is a factor. 

Additionally, because he grew up in that sort of home where crazy and violence were the norm, when he did go off into Donkey Land, his go to learned behavior was violence. 

For example, at one point he began punching himself in his own face.  His brother used to do that before he was medicated.  It happened at a time of extreme tension and instability for him in that I was seriously planning to leave him and this was much before MLC.  He was caught having an affair and I was walking away from him.  He was desperate and scared.  I was hurt and very angry and very mean.  So was it a symptom of sickness or was it a learned behavior?

So, as with all else in this, there is no definite answer. 

Also, mine was a former Marine and well versed in weaponry. 

Prior to this he was never violent with me.  He became violent only when I was no longer in his control on any level. 

MLC exaggerates bad traits is a consideration.

But are some masking a mental illness, some including my ex?  It is not out of the realm of possibility.

I also was involved in court proceedings with a man who killed his wife in a fit of MLC rage.  His wife was a friend of mine from a support group.  He drove her van over her.  It happens.

These men are no longer the men who they were previously.  Underestimating them is a mistake.  Ask me.  I will be happy to show you the pictures and xrays to prove my mistake.  I had guns.  I am no small woman.  I had dogs-Rotties and Pits.  It was not my first fist fight with a man.  I am a big girl who lifted weights for decades.  I hold a record for bench press and can lift more than most men I know.  I have a black belt.  And I underestimated him.  I have screws in my face because I underestimated him.  My friend is dead because she underestimated her husband.  You can visit her at the cemetery to see where underestimating a MLC man gets you. 

Be strong.  Be smart.  Be safe. 

Keep writing.  The answers are in there somewhere.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Having no fear might end up being a deadly mistake. I would say, have another adult present when he is around you and/or the children. You cannot predict crazy. He is not thinking straight. He is no longer who he was.

When I say, "I'm not living in fear" I mean it. I'm not going to let this man make me afraid of my own shadow. Now, does that mean that I'm going to act like he's not capable of hurting or killing me and my girls? Hell no, that would make me crazy!

What I am saying is, that I'm going to take all the necessary precautions. When he comes back, I'll have relatives staying with me. The guns are gone, and my neighbors are aware of my situation. I'm also not going to do anything that I know would set him off. Rugged Endurance gave me some great advice on this, and I'm taking it.

I can't predict crazy, and I'm not even going to try. What I am going to do is be vigilant. I don't know what he's capable of, and I hope that he will be able to calm down long enough to think about what's going on. He isn't the man I married, and I'm neither crazy nor stupid enough to trust him as far as I can throw him.

[lawprofessor]

Well said Girl!

Exactly my point!  I don't and never will live in fear but I am not stupid either.

Now about the anger.  Something drives these guys to the anger being extreme.  Anger is there go to response when hurt and scared, when they feel abandoned and feel as though the world is out of control.  I think it is the loss of control and to their whole lives being out of control so they grab on to something and try to squeeze it into control.  Sometimes that is us. 

My guy was always a very CONTROLLED type.  He did everything he was supposed to do and did it perfectly and correctly.  No mistakes, no cutting lose.

J used to talk about all the control he had over these women he was seeing.  He took pride in that even while the world went down the drains for him.  He had two domestic charges.  One on his ex wife for threatening to drive his car through the house and another for a fist fight with his OW when she refused to stay home and allow him to go out alone.  She bailed him out within a few hours. 

Now he has realized he was wrong, that he never really had control over anything.  It was a hard lesson to learn.

[Medusa]

Law, have you given much consideration in to the role Marine Corps training probably had on yourself? Mine is a retired Jarhead who, like yours, did everything he was supposed to and did it perfect (or close to it). With him, it's almost like once he retired, all hell broke lose in part because his retirement was forced.

[Mara]

My h has a diagnosed personality disorder, we knew it before we got married, but could handle it. Ten years he took some anti-depressants (I think, or Anti-psychotics...), but then stopped it. The last 5 years there was more depression, because of struggling with adaption by people (which was something in himself). He never threatened anyone, before BD (october 14). He always should take it out on himself.

Then MLC started. Things like: throwing the sugarpot through the kitchen with this power someone could die if hit by it. Physical punishment of the kids in a way it looked like abuse.
And verbally to me (he didn't dare to hit me, and weapons are forbidden in Europe;)), he said things like: I throw you out of the house, I m gonna hit your pa, a.s.o.
This was all in the beginning of MLC, times of anger at everyone.

People around me where scared for me and the kids. I left one day and stayed atmy brothers house for two nights. But then got back. But I always took the kids safe and wasnot scared myself. I talked my brother out of calling the police a few times.

Now he is back to the calm man, but yes, living in the office upstairs was a good thing so me and the kids could find our safe haven back.

Maybe this kind of violence is not what you mean? I set the boarder by the way, if I notice again this violence, I want him to leave the place. That's the only boarder I made him very clear.

I have a question though.... My H doesn't remember he did does agressive, violent things in the beginning, also not the verbal agressive things. How come? Is that true? He thinks It is in my mind...

Mara

[ruggedendurance]

Of the few cases I've seen where the man kills the woman........  she was living a very public and in your face lifestyle........   Parties, clubbing and posting it all on FB......    The jilted husband/boyfriend feels she is rubbing his nose in her blatant disregard for him.   

He acts in the most extreme manner...............  ugly, violent.

I saw a show.........?  Can't remember the name of it.   W and H are volunteers in the community.    Deeply madly in love.   

Guy turns up murdered in his car......... not an enemy in the world.......   deeper investigation shows that W was having and affair with a married man..........  deeper investigation proves that married man had nothing to do with it.    It seems W was using a person that lived in a rental property to hire a hitman.............

Involved.   Calculated..............

Is this the difference in the violence of the sexes?    Is it just my limited sample........

The W in the second story?    MLC?

[lawprofessor]

Hello European Mara!!  So nice to speak with you! 

Yes, that behavior is a part of the kind of violence we were speaking of here.

If I may attempt to answer your question-

"My H doesn't remember he did does agressive, violent things in the beginning, also not the verbal agressive things. How come? Is that true? He thinks It is in my mind..."

I am not surprised he does not remember doing these things.  I think it is very normal.  I also believe he is being very honest with you when he says he does not remember.  Most MLC people have blank periods in their memories in my experience.

There will likely come a time when he can ALLOW himself to remember those times.  Right now he cannot.  It would be too much for  him to mentally accept it.  He is too fragile.  He is in denial.  He does not want to have been the "bad guy."  Instead he wants to think that there is something wrong with you ("It is in my mind")  It is easier for him to think that.  In that way he does not have to look at himself and see what is wrong. 

It does no good to try to convince he that he did those things.  It will only serve to make him more stubborn about remembering.

You know what happened.  Your family and neighbors and friends know what happened.  That is enough for now.  Your boundaries are correct and appropriate. 

In the future if he heals, you two will be able to discuss these actions openly and honestly.  He will need to discuss them rather than sweeping them under the rug and pretending the events never happened. 

Violence and anger sometimes come from frustration, from lack of control over the events of life, from fear, from mental instability, from fear of abandonment, from fear of aloneness.  Some cry, some get visibly depressed, some become sad victims, others get angry.  Some cycle through this list once or many times. 

Loving someone with MLC and/or other personality disorders is a hard journey, but it is what we choose when we fell in love with them.  There are difficulties in all journeys in life.  How we handle those difficulties is out test.  Gracefully, strongly, caringly, gently, and lovingly is the hope, to the best of our ability while also loving ourselves. 

Best LP

[lawprofessor]

Hey Medusa!

Yes, I have mulled over the roll of his military life.  I can't come to any definite conclusions, but yes, I completely get what you mean about once he retired, all hell broke lose. 

It seemed he was lost.  He didn't know who he was.  He didn't know what to do with himself.  The Corp was his identity.  I would guess that he never really knew who he was even when he joined.  Then for a while he was Mr. Marine.  Then it was as though he were making up for all the time he thought he missed out on-partying and having fun and running from life responsibilities.  It was as though he did not have to be good and focused any more since the Corp no longer wanted him.

Speaking of that, I think he felt abandoned and unloved by the retirement.  There were all these up and coming young men and he felt old. 

As to the mindset of being a Marine, in his education, clearly he was taught ways to fight and to kill.  I do not think this came as naturally to him perhaps although he never showed it.  He was rewarded for strength and for lack of a better term, brutality.  Not that the Corp is brutal but lets face it, they don't train these guys to be weak and whimpy.  With him, I would suggest he reveled in the praise and such, which was sadly lacking in his childhood.  He would have done anything earn praise and promotions which came readily to him. 

Without the Corp he just didn't know who he was.  Abracadabra a MLC identity spark.

For a while in the beginning he was very angry with the Corp and with all members of the military.  I guess he felt less than they were. 

How about your H?

[Medusa]

Law, I could have written every single word you did. He was not just am  Marine, but a Marine's Marine even though he never had a "sexy" MOS.

When he found out he was passed for his last promotion, he was deflated, angry, and totally lost. Or of the reasons he decided to have an affair was because I didn't get him a gaudy Retired. Marine belt buckle. I thought it was a joke! So when he tried to come home, I bought one for his birthday. He was extremely grateful. Just--MLC weird. Anyway, he definitely felt abandoned, angry, and very used. As dear friends of ours (also Corps) said, the Corps is designed to break your heart. And it is.

Has yours, to your knowledge, embellished his USMC career? Once, in mediation, mine said I don't deserve my share of the retirement because I never "put my ass on the line". His ass deployed to Bahrain and Pakistan. Not once did anyone ever shoot at him. He lived in luxury in both places. So I think now he's one of those jackasses who makes his career out to be far sexier than it was. Which is sad: he was a planner and did a lot of really important things.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Hey Medusa!

Yes, I have mulled over the roll of his military life.  I can't come to any definite conclusions, but yes, I completely get what you mean about once he retired, all hell broke lose. 

It seemed he was lost.  He didn't know who he was.  He didn't know what to do with himself.  The Corp was his identity.  I would guess that he never really knew who he was even when he joined.  Then for a while he was Mr. Marine.  Then it was as though he were making up for all the time he thought he missed out on-partying and having fun and running from life responsibilities.  It was as though he did not have to be good and focused any more since the Corp no longer wanted him.

Speaking of that, I think he felt abandoned and unloved by the retirement.  There were all these up and coming young men and he felt old. 

As to the mindset of being a Marine, in his education, clearly he was taught ways to fight and to kill.  I do not think this came as naturally to him perhaps although he never showed it.  He was rewarded for strength and for lack of a better term, brutality.  Not that the Corp is brutal but lets face it, they don't train these guys to be weak and whimpy.  With him, I would suggest he reveled in the praise and such, which was sadly lacking in his childhood.  He would have done anything earn praise and promotions which came readily to him. 

Without the Corp he just didn't know who he was.  Abracadabra a MLC identity spark.

For a while in the beginning he was very angry with the Corp and with all members of the military.  I guess he felt less than they were. 

How about your H?

This the same thing that happened with mine. 21 yrs in and he was lost once he retired. I thought I was the only one going through this.

He had shooting medals and won the Wergman trophy. I don't think he really had much going for him before the Corps, and didn't really think about what he was going to do after.