[lawprofessor]

I am a logical person.  I am not a lifelong deeply religious person as I only returned to the church after BD.  I don't speak about my religious views here or elsewhere.

However,

I do believe in evil.  I see it and spend time with it daily in my work.  My clients murder, rape, molest children, and sell drugs.  I have interviewed nationally and internationally known serial killers.  Yes, some are mentally ill.  That fact has nothing to do with whether or not they are evil.

Just as the idea that a person is in MLC does not preclude the person from having an evil darkside.  If your spouse does not have an evil darkside or you have not seen it, count yourself lucky.  I saw my former husbands darkside.  I saw evil. 

My former husband was a brilliant doctor and a career Marine.  He was kind and loving and gentle.  Sure he had his faults but he was not a violent man and certainly not with me or his mother. 

That all changed with his MLC.

We were on the phone and he was screaming at me.  His mother asked him to be quiet in her home, and he threw her to the ground and stepped over her on his way out the door.  She was 79 at the time.  This was the mother he worshiped.  She was the best cook.  He split his time off between her and our home.  Literally.  He bought her elaborate presents.  He worried about her health.  He was one big mama's boy.  But he threw her to the ground.  I heard him do it.  I called his brother.  His brother found his mother on the floor crying.  She said she fell.  Fell on both sides of her face.  Fell on to a shoe that put a bruise in the shape of a shoe sole on her side.  Sure, she fell.  Sure. 

Now is that evil?  Not in and of itself.  Ugly yes.  A crime yes. 

For me: 

Until you have been there and have seen what I saw, don't tell me its mental illness.  It wasn't.
Don't tell me it has anything to do with the century we are in because it does not. 
Reading from a book is not the same as personal experience. 

I know the exact date I lost the fight with the devil over my ex.
I was there.
I saw it with my own eyes.

MLC is an identity issue.  For me, the crisis comes first and the health problems are a secondary result.  That's why I am not a believer in the neuro theory.  My husband, as a member of the military, had yearly physicals.  His hormones were not out of wack.  He had brain scans and nothing was amiss.  He had blood tests and nothing was amiss.  He had 19 weeks of counseling with psychiatrists, psychologists, and other evaluators.  Nothing.  He was tested for everything from Huntington's Disease to heavy metal poisoning to PTSD and everything in between.  He saw doctors well versed in mental illness who found nothing.  We had the money to pay for the best and did.  Both civilian and military experts.  Psychological exams were compulsory and later of his own free will.  He cooperated since they had nothing to do with me or reconciling.  Nobody could find anything wrong with him. 

The battle was over 2 weeks.  I wont relate it all, and I never have.  I saw things that are just too private to share.

He was normal at first.  Normal for MLC.  He kept explaining to me why we couldn't be together, our differences, etc.  Rational, reasonable.  As the days passed, the conversation ended.  We slipped in to a pattern of just having fun.  He slept on the couch while I slept in the bed.  We made plans, socialized, worked out together, ate together, all just normal.  Then I awakened one night to find him standing in the doorway to my bedroom.  He hadn't even turned on the hall light.  It was just after 3 am and completely dark.  My female dog growled and that's what awakened me.  Ex was standing in the doorway talking to himself.  Over and over he said, "I don't want to do that." Pause.  "I have to do it."  Pause.  "I know I have to."  And a bunch of other things.  But the bottom line was he was arguing with himself over hurting me at least.  I shook off the sleep as my dogs both began growling loudly and sitting up.  I grabbed them and yelled, "Get your a$$ out of here or I will blow your a$$ out the door.  (He knew I keep a gun by the table.)  He turned around and shuffled back to the couch to sleep.  He walked as though he were in a trance except that his head was down. 

The next morning we went to the gym.  At the gym he began acting strange.  He was very competitive with guys in their 20's.  He was spotting me on an exercise and let the weights fall on my neck.  I shoved them off me and fell to the floor.  He stood over me looking at me with a strange odd stiffness to him.  Interested, curious, as I gasped for breath.  But no feeling, no concern.  (I've seen the same look on serial killers face's.)  Another guy ran over and helped me up.  Ex screamed at him to get his hands off me.  The guy backed away.  Then ex went over and began another exercise.  He was lifting extreme amounts of weight, so heavy I couldn't spot him since the weights lifted me off the ground.  The exercise is an iron cross type in which the arms are extended to the sides like a crucifixion.  He just kept adding more and more weights.  He kept making these sounds at me like snarling.  I stood back far away just watching.  When he completed the whole set, he came stalking over to me.  He got nose to nose with me and yelled, "Did you see that?  What do you think of your Jesus now?  I held my own weight plus in the air.  What do you think of your Jesus now?  That killed him.  I am alive."  I shook my head and began backing away.  He grabbed me by the upper arms and shook me so hard my teeth rattled.  He just kept yelling, "What do you think of your Jesus now?  I should be your God."  As he repeated this, his face was bright red, spit flew from his mouth, and his eyes were dark and dead.  I finally had enough and snarled at him to let me go, that I wasn't impressed and I wanted to leave as everyone was staring at us.  A switch flipped and he slid back to normal almost as he noted the counter man was dialing the police.  He walked off with a stiff back, and shaking, veins sticking out everywhere, eyes dilated and the whites all red and blood shot.  He had a strange body odor as well, not normal sweaty, but strong.   His speech was strange, a different tone, hissing, lips back, teeth barred.  I wiped the spit off my face and left.  We rode home in silence.  The towel he used to shower turned crusty and the pattern faded by evening.  The lab said it was salt.  I was treated for two blisters on each arm the next day, just where he held me. 

Ex slept 5 hours after that which is very unusual as the man never once slept during the day in all the years we were together.  He could hardly sleep at night like a normal person. 

Ex has no memory of that time.  He denied it until he saw camera footage. 

As to names he began calling me "Mommy" and tried to demand I called him Dr. X.  (his name).  I declined.  When the police came to get him much later in my story it took 4 officers to subdue him with tasers, and he still fought.  All 4 went to the hospital for treatment.  When the military came for him they brought 6 soldiers.  They needed every one of them. 

No doctor as yet has found an explanation for his behavior during those two weeks.  An FBI profiler compared him to a specific serial killer who underwent an exorcism and became a productive member of society.  Another psychiatrist said he had a psychotic break, but has no explanation for why it has never happened again, the lack of physical indicators or lingering effects.  My bishop and my priest met him during this time.  Bishop D threw up and my Priest was so shaken he cried and said, "A devil can also spout scripture with great sincerity. Stay away from him as his soul is lost."  The only people he reacted to so strongly were myself, my priest, and my bishop.

Even Heart's Blessing told me to stay away from him as he is dangerous to my soul and my safety.  I think I am the only person she has ever advised to not stand under any circumstance as she believes he is evil.

That's the short story.  You all call it what you want.  You weren't there.  I was. 

Lp

[Thunder]

Oh my God LP.

Your story really shook me.
I am at a total loss for words.  How do you even begin to explain what happened to him during this time?

When I hear people talk about the dead, black, soul-less of the eyes I can only remember only one time seeing them and it frightened me.

It's not the same dead, vacant eyes I saw my H have after BD.
It was a time before we were married.  I will never forget it as long as I live...and have never seen it since.
We were in a grocery store and some man kept repeatedly running into my H's heals with his shopping cart.

I happened to turn around a saw his eyes.  The were the blackest eyes I have ever seen in my life.  It wasn't anger it was more PURE hatred.  Like his eyes were nothing but solid black pupils....and it was like he wasn't even there.  Then in a few minutes they were back to normal.

I told him afterwards I NEVER want to see those eyes look at me like that.  They were pure evil looking.

I have seen that look in serial killers eye, but only in pictures.

Anyway, thank you for sharing you experience.  Really makes you wonder.

[lawprofessor]

How do I explain what happened to him? 

His darkside was very dark.  The amount of pain and anger and hurt he surpressed over the years was huge.  It ate at him, making a weak spot in which evil grew.  One day the darkside took over.  That's all I need to know and yet it seems I will know more as he feels the need to share his dark side with me even though I rarely respond as he works out his demons in the emails to me.  Some are filled with confusion.  Some anger.  Some rage.  Some such pain.  All just short of taking responsibility yet.

The secrets some of these men carry are so dark, so frightening, so ugly, as to damage all around them.  Thats why some are so angry, some want to destroy the spouse in total.  No medication can fix that.  It is something that must be faced and aired to heal if that is possible.  Medication only helps in the late stages based on my experience with me these two men.  And then it is only a crutch to get them a chance to heal. 

I've been to hell with J as well, know his secrets and what drove him to his crisis.  I listened day after day, week after week, just listened.  No pity.  No comfort.  Just an ear.  All my questions were answered about MLC, the why's and how's in the process yet the cost was high.  He is doing well though.  It is only me that remembers in great detail the stories he told. 

Ex keeps telling me, "things weren't supposed to turn out like this".  He wants to come home.  But the price is too high and I'm too tired to do any more battles with the dark side. 

The bottom line is evil exists and no pill or brain scan can fix that.  Each person must choose to fight his own demons or live with them. 
Lp

[Anjae]

Like Lawprofessor, I am a logical person. I am not religious, but I am spiritual. However, it is not a secret and have even being praying to Mary for grandmother. But I tend to separate a person's belief from the Church, the institution. And, for me, it is more the power of belief and the energy that comes from it. Be it praying to the Universe, Nature, God, Mary, or Higher Power.

Evil for me is the energy and behaviours that can be formed in certain situations. War, big greedy ruthless corporations and the mentality they exert upon those who work for them, unscrupulous poloticians.

What about those types of clients LP mentioned? For sure some of them have a very dark side. An horrendous dark side, in fact. I am just not so sure if the evil has nothing to do with being mentally and/or morally ill. I am in no way excusing those people actions. Their actions are abhorrent. But why do they behave that way? What lead to those actions? I don't know. In some, like LP said, there is obvious mental illness. In others, I truly do not know. Some defy reason.

I would not find it unlikely that those that defy reason also have a mental illness or some very messed up brain (phaedophilia is thought to come from a misswiring in the brain that, so far, no one knows how to correct). However, at our current level of knowledge we do not have any way of stop serial killers from being serial killers, paedophiles from being paedophiles or rapist from being rapists (from what I know some rapist seem to suffer from complicated phycological issues that no one knows how to treat). Murderers rehabilitation I think it would depend of the type of murder.

I am all for rehabilitation when possible, and when it does not put society at danger. If it does, it is better those people are kept away from society. Not necessarly in a prison, but in some appropriated facility. Even if here, with our maximum jail sentence at 25 years (and that requires something of gigantic magnitude) many of those people are quicly back in society. Or, with luck, are taken to a psychiatric hospital.

Do normal people have a dark side? Maybe. Or maybe the dark side is just our side when we are stressed, depressed, angry. I always think of  Shantilly Lace, a former board member who had post-partum depression and wanted to kill, if I am not mistaken, her husband (maybe also the child and hersel? I don't remember.) and who has written about that time in her life. How out of control she was. Was she evil? Or was it the post.partum depression that brought up the dark side?

I saw more less with Mr J, if not the same, as Lawprofessor saw with her husband. But had seen my paternal aunt who suffered from mental illness (I was never told which illness) and my schizophrenic maternal grand aunt, plus hearing my mum and sibling taking of how my maternal grandfather acted when on his episodes (bipolar or borderline, no one knows for sure), I knew that it was some sort of mental illness. At the time I just did not knew what I was seeing. I was seeing psychotic episodes. Really nasty ones.

One day I was dragged from bed across the flat floor with Mr J screaming at me that he was going to rip that child out of me (we thought I was pregnant). Then he opened the flat door and tried to push me down the stairs. The next day he come by the flat and he had no recollection of what had happend.

Another time he ripped apart the internet cabble so that I could not work and picked the destop tower and nearly smashed it out of the windown. Then he broke in tears and run.

This just to name a few things that happened. Like LP's husband, Mr J does not remember any of the incidents.

For me it is different, the stress, anxiety and depression lead to the crisis mode and make the other issues come to the front. Regardless of our view of MLC, it does not change the horror of being physically hurt by our spouse who, until MLC was a normal person.

Even Heart's Blessing told me to stay away from him as he is dangerous to my soul and my safety.  I think I am the only person she has ever advised to not stand under any circumstance as she believes he is evil.

No, you are not. She told me the same. Except she does not think Mr J is evil but quite ill. And that she can see some hope for him if he ever crashes and does a very hard, long work. But she told me to not to try to get close to him, a thing I did not intended to. And, much I keep saying how I regret had come back home, the truth is that I may not be alive if I had stayed. A thing HB agress wirh.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Yes, I believe there is a dark side at work in MLC. Our university police chief, who has a lot of experience working the streets on big city police forces, once told me not all cops believe in God but they all believe in the devil. I would say with good reason.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Velika,

Read the book, "People of the Lie", by M Scott Peck. It's an eye opener on this very subject. He's a therapist with some interesting insight on the subject.

[lawprofessor]

not all cops believe in God but they all believe in the devil.

Absolutely true in the Chicago area as well. 

[Absolutely Fabulous]

I've talked to a few people who have come out of MLC and they have an eerily similar story to tell about how things were during MLC. People who have had demons routed out have said that their experiences of not being unable to control themselves, feeling like they were watching themselves, and the voices telling them what to do are similar.

The is evidence of people who have been delivered from demons telling about: something taking over, being compelled and wanting to stop what they were  doing, not being able to is out there. We can't just dismiss it. I've noticed that some people who are set in their beliefs and ways of thinking are condescending to those who don't think like or believe as they do.

Being spiritual is no excuse for that type of attititude or behavior. To them I say, it's time to check your ego, and give everyone else the courtesy being able to speak their minds here, that has been openly extented to you. I believe it's worth researching.

I absolutely believe in God and the Devil, and have personally met possesed people. You can feel the spiritual energy of darkness on people possessed. There is a heaviness in the air when in their presence. You can feel the hairs on the back of your neck stand up with some. And a since if foreboding when they're around. Not a pleasant experience.

The Ex had that heaviness surrounding him. I could feel it the minute he entered the home. It would fill the room. And he would look at me and start complaining which lead to screaming at me. For no reason, and then storm off upstairs. It was a draining daily experience.

I'm with LP, the s*it he put me, and more importantly our girls through was absolutely evil. I don't buy this being mental illness depression as the sole reason, this is something far more sinister.

[whatthe????]

LP
You have been on my mind since I read your post last night.  I am just speechless!  There have been a few times where h will say "your God" and will curse him up and down.  It's not h talking at all..he talks in the 3rd person as if someone is speaking through him.  FREAKY!  And I k ow about the bad energy they give off...I've felt it.  It stops me in my tracks every single time until I can get my bearings and say a prayer of protection.  They make the room feel like you are standing in molases....And they eyes...I have a few pics of h that I can't even look at bc it scares the $h!te out of me! 

[Battlefield]

I haven't been on in a very long time. I just got a random email of a response, so I thought I would see what is going on. I came across this thread. I will tell you I know this is exactly what it is. I will tell you a little bit of what I have learned bc I have been doing research since 2011 on this very thing.

In January 2011 after BD after a few returns H came home again was home for a few days as usual then started again. Only being a few months in at this time I'm so confused, hurt, angry Ect.  We talked and that day he cried like I have never seen.  He then left. What happened next he drove down the street, sat in his truck and cried so hard he said that he felt something lift (literally) lift off of him.
"it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation." Matt 12:45

As soon as that happened he was confused and said he knew how much he loved me and always did, didn't know why or what was going on. He called his mom talked to her. Which she told him he could not go home he did to much to me and she was afraid he was going to do it again. I understand why. Told him he needed to go. H went to OW's house bc he didn't know what to do. He left called his mom again telling her omg I can't I don't know her I don't even like her. She tried to touch me and I pulled away from her and told her don't touch me. He told his mom to call me.
Long story short it lifted off him, returned even worse a few days later he was not a born again or he did not have a relationship with the lord.
People (OW) can transfer spirits  by just touching them. H remembers now he was fine but remembers after she asked if she could give him a hug he said everything felt different. He said it just got foggy! That was out it started day 1 also
Looking at her history she has broke up many marriages.

"But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us. If they do not belong to God, they do not listen to us. That is how we know if someone has the Spirit of truth or the spirit of deception." 1John 4:6
There is way more to it. The Bible has scripture after scripture of spirits from Depression ,lying spirits to familiar.
Bottom line is people don't say or do the exact same things in a timeline without something guiding them.

"For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world's rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." Eph 6:12




I will tell you God is good. Power over any

I know this is very confusing I'm trying to put 5 years worth of info in this but
When you think about illness or Disease like Diabetes for instance
They may have the same symptoms. This is different when u read about it and the people going through this, they are Saying and doing the Exact same things!