[Thunder]

I don't know Changing, I went back and forth about this.

Are they really unable to control themselves?  I know the way they feel is painful, empty and scary so I never blamed my H for how he "felt."  But even in this weak state they are still responsible for their choices.
If they really can't control their urges than why have any guilt at all?  If the choice was out of their hands 
then they had no choice.  They blindly had to do what they did.

I'm a firm believer in consequences...AND compassion.

I think we can show then compassion but we also need to let them feel consequences.  If they are being Monster or nasty or irresponsible then we can't just hold them up and say well he can't help it.  Yes, I feel they can help it but they have to want to help themselves.  Is it tough?  I'm sure it is.  Does it take a lot of courage, of course.

I'm not saying you are doing that, but by being nasty they should feel what the consequences are for those actions.  That may not look like compassion from us.  It may be turning our backs on them until they can treat us with in a more decent manner.  Looks like you have done that a few times.  I think it's healthy.

Just my thoughts on it for what it's worth.

[xyzcf]

An exert from "The Devil Exists"  Pope Francis 4/11/2014 - Morning meditation in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae

“We are all tempted, because … our spiritual life, our Christian life, is a battle”, the Pope said. This comes from the fact that “the devil does not want us to become holy, he does not want us to follow Jesus”. “Of course one of you will say: but Father, you are so old fashioned, speaking about the devil in the 21st century!”. To this Pope Francis replied: “watch out, the devil exists! The devil exists even in the 21st century. And we must not be naive. We must learn from the Gospel how to battle against him”.

http://english.clonline.org/default.asp?id=867&id_n=20513

Right after BD, I spoke to a woman whose husband had gone through a similar battle. She took my shoulders in her hands and looked me straight in the eye and said

" This is Satan's way of destroying good Christian marriages". I thought she was crazy.

Yet, my husband and I are practicing Catholics, even to this day he attends mass regularly.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a spiritual as well as a physical, emotional and biochemical battle. We dismiss this as being old fashion...but I have experienced this evil and it is very very real.

[Velika]

Thunder, you were lucky your husband wasn't heavy monster. But I think for many of us who do see ongoing monster, there is an aspect of how LEC describes. I clearly saw my husband do just what he writes about, almost like he was being pulled back or controlled.

LEC if you compare your wife's experience to Watcher's dream it is eery.

Can someone tell me what "when the beast" means? OW posted this once with a photo my husband had taken on a family vacation pre bomb drop.

[Slow Fade]

" This is Satan's way of destroying good Christian marriages".

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a spiritual as well as a physical, emotional and biochemical battle.

I couldn't agree more......

[Thunder]

I agree Velika, my H didn't monster much at all...and I'm grateful for that but sometimes being cold and completely, emotionally indifferent can hurt just as bad.

There were times I wanted him to Monster or anything just to show any kind of emotion.
I even pushed it a few times.  I think to Monster you have to care.   To hate you have to care.
You wouldn't Monster or hate a perfect stranger.  There's emotion involved in hate.

Anyway..sorry, that has nothing to do with your topic on demonic possession.   

[Watcher]

My W could have written what XYZCF just posted. She truly believes that Satan is attacking our marriage. Yesterday at mass she had the rosary that I replaced for her a couple of weeks ago blessed by the priest. She carries it in her purse. Satan is very real to her.

I also agree that it's a combination of spiritual, emotional, physical, chemical imbalance.

Our house has been blessed and she has Holy Water at the ready. Her view is that I'm the one who is currently vulnerable. She was the one who wanted divorce and strayed from the marriage. She has had her awakening and she now feels that I am the one who is susceptible  to stray and end the marriage because of her behavior.

The theme at mass yesterday was temptation. Yes, she fell to her temptation with OM. But it got me thinking that I have also fallen myself. It could be alcohol, gambling, drugs, internet  or any other vice that one can think of. It doesn't necessarily have to alone be infidelity. It's anything that distracts one from their marriage.

There are many avenues that Satan can take into ones marriage and that is W point of view. I cannot judge her. It's her experience and what she has gone through and feels.

[Not Applicable]

I'm not saying you are doing that, but by being nasty they should feel what the consequences are for those actions.  That may not look like compassion from us.  It may be turning our backs on them until they can treat us with in a more decent manner.  Looks like you have done that a few times.  I think it's healthy.

I totally agree. And I do NOT excuse Monster at all. I walk away, I even challenge him. I've told him monster is not him. That he is better than this. I even got religious on him after his last big blow up and told him how religiously unacceptable his monstering is. He gets no free pass in this regard. OW does give him a free pass. I do not and the fact that she does pushes me even harder to NOT tolerate it. Because no boundaries just keeps him in perpetual monster. And I know that is what stopped his father from abusing him and his mother, the fact that he stood up to him. So really to me it is absolutely essential I don't feed Monster.

But Monster is not the biggest demon our marriage and our relationship faces, to be perfectly honest. Monster is an annoyance, monster is even a threat, but it's something I can mostly deal with. In fact, sometimes Monster feels better than no Monster because Monster FEELS something, even if it is anger, whereas no monster is a zombie. Just as you say, Thunder.

There's something else much more problematic for me and it isn't something I can actually DO anything about. Because it's something he's NOT doing, rather than something he is doing. You can't force someone to do something they believe they "can't" do. If anyone has any idea how you can then I am open to suggestions.

[BBhelp]

My only comment is that my wife was deeply religious before MLC...renounced it during MLC...and found her exit and the start of her healing when she found it again.

Before MLC she was devout but not afraid.  Like Watcher's wife...Even Now...all these years later, she is still afraid.  She will always say the "Satan is Real...Evil is Real...I know because I have seen it and I have lived it".  And then she doesn't want to talk about it any further...like mentioning it somehow gives it power.

I know that there was a time I did battle with some Thing that was not my wife and felt out of this world.  It was the scariest thing I have ever seen.  She was a panting, pacing caged animal that cursed me, God and my children for everything.  She did and said things I will never share and try to forget because they simply cannot be real.  She didn't eat or sleep for weeks as the hate just consumed her.   But once she had burned all the bridges and shined light on all the evil she was doing and living...it was gone.  She slept for a week straight after this and had no memory of it then nor now.  I can see now what a battle she had to fight to shine that light and I am thankful that she did.

And after reading Law Professor's account earlier...my hair stood on end.   It is tough not to believe that there are many forces at work with an MLC'r.

BB

[LEC16]

This is the dilemma, what is the cause and what is the effect. I also wonder at times if we are just making up excuses for bad behavior because it hurts too much to accept that our spouses became really bad people. Then I think why did it happen suddenly and how can a person change so much so fast. I also wonder how could someone be something that they are not for years, and why do mlc's all follow the same play book? 

I mean we're not looking for big foot, we all have seen the mlc spouse and observed them in action. The comment the Monsignor made to me about all prisoners justifying their actions and believing that they are victims makes sense, but the full scope of the mlc reevaluation to me suggests more than guilt. Guilt doesn't make people buy cars or get tattoos. Depression makes sense, but why try the mlc play book?  I get high stimulation is necessary for a depressed person to have feelings, but why do they lose their ability to think rationally and make logical choices?  Meds make sense, but some start after mlc. Hormones also make sense, but why are we so far behind in our understanding of the connection. Spiritual makes sense for believers, but why are other elements present?

I think it could be a combo or one opens the door for the others. I will look to natural explications first, but I won't dismiss others. One side note, I had a weird reoccurring dream in the years prior to mlc where I was in bed with my wife but she didn't want to be married. She wasn't cruel in the dream, she just didn't want to be married. I remember waking up a holding her tight. I now really wonder why I had that dream as it was like the mlc wife being in bed with me but not wanting to be married. No monster in the dream though. Also will add W and I always had a happy marriage.

[Not Applicable]

I think the cause IS the effect. They are depressed. They do things that they think will help them deal with the depression, and those things in turn make them more depressed. For example, they think their wife is the big source of their troubles. So they get an OW. Their wife gets angry about it or they feel guilty. Now they feel even worse.

One does not need to believe in demonic possession to still see the devil behind this. The devil simply could be leading people to make poor choices. Or the same brain chemistry is playing out in all of them leading them to make the same poor choices. Whatever your belief, the effect is the same.

Just an aside, may or may not be related. My husband just brought a large quantity of tissues. He bought some yesterday and they were like really underpriced, so I told him to go back and buy some more. He brought them by to me just now and we were discussing whether he should go back and buy even more and I just suddenly smiled and blew him a kiss. He stopped speaking, just stared deep into my eyes for a few seconds like he was connecting to me but also like he wasn't sure what was going on, and then resumed speaking about the tissues. I'd never seen that look before. It was really strange. Like I pulled him off into another world for a few seconds and then he pulled himself back. In the past if I did something like this he would have reacted right away, probably telling me not to be silly or not to waste his time.