[calamity]

Whoever criticized 'career politicians' and the rich--I'm not going to look so it's not personal and I've heard this from many.  Why would you want someone that is not a 'career politician'?  I'd expect politicians to be trained for their jobs as are career doctors and lawyers and teachers.  And why would anyone think Trump, who is richer than any other politician, represents working class interests?  Or that the well established english ruling class will be uprooted by leaving the EU? 

I'm heartened that we can have this discussion.  Lots of north americans think it's impolite and politics is very important.

[Roma]

Just imagine, if my Native American ancestors 'built a wall to keep everyone out' Most of the people would NOT be here....including Trump!

[osb]

TBH I'm finding the US election results triggering in so many ways. For one thing, it's been tragic to watch (from a safe distance) the tremendous gas-lighting of an ordinary but strong woman ("she's a criminal! emails! Benghazi! ...oh, not actually criminal? Nooo, it must have been criminal!! She's a witch, burn her, burn her!!"). Over and over, investigations reveal no substance to the accusations; but they just piled up, till I'm sure she was doubting her own memory, never mind the electorate's.  Feels like we've all seen this sort of thing before...

Also: I'm a brown woman married to a white man. The day after my H asked for a divorce, my FIL told me "The problem is, you're too bloody foreign. Not salt of the earth like me. My son should go marry someone he can relate to, who'd make him real food, who knows what being Canadian means." I understood this as bigotry; my H does not. I cannot forgive it, to this day; my H wishes I could "just get over it". Perspective. My best friend's parents met each other in an internment camp, dispossessed of all they owned because Japanese were The Enemy, that year. Perspective. Yesterday brought my FIL's words roaring back into my mind. I'm as Canadian as he is. How many generations does someone have to live in a country to feel safe, to be considered 'salt of the earth'? To not be classified as exotic, quaint, foreign, strange, deportable? And what will it take for people not at risk of being dispossessed of their sense of belonging, not at risk of being 'othered' by virtue of their skin colour, to realize, yes this is bigotry?

Apologies, this is of course bringing waaaay too much of my personal baggage into a political discussion; but as they say, the personal is political. And in my view the political, in the US, just became personal.

[lawprofessor]

It somewhat amazes me people have such hatred for a healthcare system  that would actually benefit them?

Elegance,

I know, a rational person would think that way.  I did at one time.  But, the thing is the new healthcare system doesn't benefit these people, the working lower middle class. 

Take J

J works 60 hours a week plus and is a metallurgist.
His shop makes parts for NASA and Caterpillar and dozens of other big corporations.
His shop does not offer health insurance.

He applied for Obamacare as required by the law.
The package he was eligible for:

$5,000 deductible
Less than 80% coverage
No prescription drug coverage
No well doctor visits

Cost:  28.5% of his income.  One full paycheck a month plus.
His child support is another full paycheck a month.

That totals to 57% of his income.

He couldn't afford a place to live, food, shoes, uniforms for work, heat, electricity, or his transportation to work which is generally either a bicycle or the bus if he complied with the coverage.

That is not helpful.  It is not equitable.  It is not sensible.

These guys see illegal aliens getting free healthcare. 
They see people on welfare getting free healthcare.

But because these guys work rather than lay around on aid, they are stripped of a full paycheck a month for coverage that is next to worthless.

And none could ever cover the deductible much less the 20+% not covered when stripped of one paycheck a month.

As well, stripping them of one paycheck a month puts many of the guys J works with below the poverty line but they can't claim benefits because they work. 

So in effect, they would be better off not working.

Now you may think, What happens when or if they get truly ill or injured?  The hospitals out here have charity programs with payments according to income and based on other restrictions.  For example, J gets charity assistance from the hospital.  He applied for it, and had to explain his story to the hospital in writing and in an interview.  He is granted charity with the restriction that he pass random drug and alcohol testing which he has to pay for, as well as follow an appointment schedule, and take his medicine correctly as well as continue working.  Percentages depend on income and dependents. 
 
While the Obama care system may have helped some, it did not help a huge percentage of workers.  As well he is financially penalized at tax time for not having insurance.  Yet the owner of his shop made over $2 million last year, and purposefully keeps the employment rolls below the level mandating insurance.  He gets around that by hiring temp service workers and then ends their contracts just before required to hire them on. 

So yes, to them, they are thrilled with Trumps election.  They were a part of the Trump voters who were part of the silent majority.

Lp 

[Anjae]

1trouble, like any other EU country, the UK has its sovereignty, in fact, the UK has benefits other countries do not have. For example, the UK does not have Schengen.

EU citizens are not emmigrants, we are EU citizens in any European country. UK citizens are EU nationals here and we were in the UK.

The leave vote pretty much felt like a vote against us, the people of the EU, not against the bureaucrats of the EU. And, by the way, they are elected, we all vote for European Parliament. There are positions there are not elected by the people, but the same is true in every country, like central bank governor or supreme court judge. And you do elect the Queen/King, do you? 

What you voted for will not allow me, or any other EU citizen to go to the UK (well, we may, like back in the day, which is of no interest). I has planning to chose an English University to going back to study, now I will not. If Scotland remains in the EU, I may select a Scottish one, but England, and London (my favourite city in the world) have been crossed from my list.

If I was American I do not know who I would voted for.  Jill Stein, maybe (my democrat choice was Sanders, but he was no longer in the race). I deslike both Hillary and Donald, and always thought that, for many reasons (other than my dislike), Hillary was an ill suited candidate (none of the reasons had to do with her being a woman), and that the Democrats had made a mistake by having her as their candidate.

But it was easy to know Trump was going to win. It was coming many miles away. I know the only poll that thought it was possible it was the LA times one and that Nate Silver was the only? statistician who included a probable Trump victory, but all it would take was to factor a number of key elements to realise who was going to win.

So, no, I am not surprised, I was expecting it. Do I like it? No. 

For me, what is strange in the US election is that one person does not mean one vote. That a president is elected by an electoral college, meaning that someone may even have more votes but will not win. Here, one person equals one vote for the chosen candidate.

[Thunder]

Osb,  make him REAL food?  How terribly hurtful.

Both my grandparents and great grandparents came over via Ellis Island (ok I’m old ..lol) looking  for a better future for themselves and their families.  They wanted freedom from the countries they came from.  It was a dream for them.  (One from Poland, one from Hungary…depending on where the borders were during the wars).

Was there still segregated neighborhoods?  Of course.   There were the Irish, the Italians, the Hungarians and the Poles.   My mom and dad eloped because the families did not agree to their marriage but their love was strong, they raised 5 of us kids and where happily married for almost 60 happy years when my mother passed away at 82 years old. 
Their nationality was no barrier for them.

The U.S. is a melting pot and I’m proud of that.  I know there are bigots out there but they don’t speak for me.  One woman I thought I knew very well said..well, Trump is just saying out loud what most of are afraid to say.   : o  I’m sorry but I personally  call them haters.
He surely does not speak for me!

I have grandkids (12) and great grandkids (4) who are mixed with African American, Mexican American and American Indian.   A few through adoption.

I just hope and pray Donald Trump means what he says about being the president for everyone.  We’ll see.

[karmirtsaghik]

LP,
America needs to adopt single payer health care system, like the rest of civilized world. I feel sorry for people like J. who has to go through the charity process in the local hospital in order to have some access to health care. There is something wrong when the drug companies are allowed to gauge the prices beyond any imagination under the non-sensical and frankly criminal justification that the price reflects research and development investments. Could someone explain to me why we have to pay $2500 for a tube of Zovirax, while the same drug costs $100 just North of the border. These stories go on and on. Like the recent saga with Epipen.  I gave birth to my daughter in the US and to my son in Austria. I would take the Austrian system anytime.

Obamacare, in fact does not fix anything it is an ill-concieved program based on the asumption that the more people buy in to the system the lower will be the costs. But it exerts no control over private insurance pricing. In fact, just recently the CEO of United Health Care announced that should the regulators disapprove th company's merger with Humana, his company would drop  out health exchange markets. Our health care system is a complete and utter mess. And we pay per capita multiple times more than any industrilized country. Insurance and pharmaceutical industries are running the show. But now, with the Republican congress and Trump in the white house we can forget about having any sensible reforms. Trump is still a big subscriber to Reganomics, i.e. trickle down economics. This means that another financial crisis is just round the corner with unhinged corporations and their greed.

SF
I believe in women's right to choose. It should be a health care decision that every woman should have a right to and not an ideological one,  based on religious or other notions. It does not mean that I am advocating abortions, it means that I am for upholding women's consitutional rights. In fact abortion rates under Obama are at all time low.

OSB
I too believe there is a huge racial bias in the results of US elections. I believe that with all its faults, Obama's Presidency was a remarkable 8 years in the history of the US. People are forgetting what total mess he inherited from JWB. He leaves the country in much better shape and he did a lot for our country. And this is done whith a total obstructionist Congress. I for one thing will miss the Obamas. I admire their intellectual and emotional intelligence and leadership.

[Thunder]

Anjae, I couldn't agree with you more!  The electoral college made sense YEARS ago but it doesn't anymore and should be thrown out.
It should be one person one vote. winner wins.

If that were the case Hillary (so far) and Al Gore would have been our presidents.

Karmirt I agree.  If the Democrats had fought harder, or stood up to the Republicans,we would have gotten a much better healthcare plan but they buckled to ensure the plan was adopted.  Big mistake.
Single payer would have been a much better plan.

One more thing, I have been a fan pf Bernie Sanders for many years.  (Also Hillary's)  I loved both of them and would have voted for either.
I think the problem was people were afraid Bernie was too liberal (socialist) and couldn't get the middle so Hillary seemed more main stream.  She, as Bill, could get Independents and some Republicans.
Maybe we were wrong.  Maybe people were ready for Bernie after all.

[Anjae]

Anjae, I couldn't agree with you more!  The electoral college made sense YEARS ago but it doesn't anymore and should be thrown out.
It should be one person one vote. winner wins.

If that were the case Hillary (so far) and Al Gore would have been our presidents.

I know. Who gets the most votes must be the winner. I think in the UK the system for Parliement is somehow similar, the winner is not who really has the most votes.

Here it is always one person, one vote. Be it Parliement, President, Mayor, head of borough, etc.

I understand how the electoral college works, state X provides Z amount of votes, State B amount A, and that it depends of how many votes are up for grabs in each state, it just does not represent people's true vote.

I think this was one of the big mistakes, to think Hillary could bring in independents as much as Bernie could. She could not.

I think people were ready for Bernie, the establishment, journalists, analysts, etc, missread the people. The people were fed up with political dynasties, and Clinton (any Clinton) is part of those. She also is not likelble or relatable for many (Bernie was), a thing that must always be taken in consideration when running for office (Bill is more likeable than Hillary).

Trump also did not rate high on approval/being liked, but people do not perceive him as being part of the establishment (even if he is a billionaire). It is a big like Farage in the UK; Farage ranted against the EU, but he is a member of the European Parliement, where he makes good money a month.

Bernie is a socialist always makes me smile. For an European he is, at best, a Social Democrat.

Karmit, a tube of Zorivax (50mg) costs €6.60 here, that would be $7,28 (and if a med has National Health Service prescription discount, meds can cheaper than the retail price). One thing to have in consideration, wages are very low in Portugal. A very low wage in the US is a more than good wage in Portugal.

Another thing, free lance workers here have to pay a lot of taxes and to Social Security, often if does not pay to work as a free lance worker unless one has a steady job. Not everything here is roses, but we do pay thounsands of euros for meds. There are meds that cost a lot of money (like for hepatitis c), but, usually, the cost will be payed by the state.

My eyes always go  when I see how much meds or normal medical treatment costs in the US.

[karmirtsaghik]

Thunder,

The problem with Democrats is that they are as vested in corporate interest as Republicans. Citizens United decision of the Supreme Court basically opened a pandora box in politics, allowing uncontrolled infusion of capital in the electoral process. Presidential elections anymore cost billions, equalling the GDP of some countries. It is not only the issue with personalities but the entire process is flawed, including the antiquated Electoral Vote system.
Re. our health care system. In one of his last interviews Obama rightfully admitted that the single payer system is the way to go, but as he said dismantelling  the current system is too difficult. We have a disease management system as opposed to health care system, with very limited focus on prevention and healthy life style, i.e. things that do not enrich insurance and big Pharma companies.