[terrified_in_TN]

...
It is unconceivable to me that Trump could even be considered a candidate, let alone get elected (shaking my head here - I am going to get a severe crick in my neck soon). I am no fan of HRC either, at least she was a legit candidate.
...

  As I mentioned above, had I voted, it would have been for Trump exactly because he wasn't a politician, but I am in agreement with you here.

I think part of the reason he won is he is representative of this nation's priorities, which I think is very sad.  What I mean is, people are more consumed by "The Kardashians", and other "Reality Celebs" that what is going on in their own lives.

I am surprised I haven't stumbled upon a news article where the headline read "Trump:  Your HIRED!!!"

-T

I don't pretend to have the answers, but I view our two party system as "Black and White", and unfortunately NOTHING ever is.  I also forgot who mentioned it, but government positions should have term limits, and should probably be serviced by random selection similar to "Jury Selection".  I just think it should be a civil duty that any citizen could be called upon for, rather than a career opportunity.  Maybe that woudn't work either, I don't know.

[Thunder]

Mitzpah,

I love America, it's beautiful and filled with wonderful people.   I wouldn't want to live any place else, but out political system is broken.

Until we get the money out of our politics it will not change.   Also we need to break up the power of a 2 party system.

I'm concerned about Trump, but not really afraid of him, he's an actor/businessman who I honestly don't think he really wanted this job.  He'd actually have to work for a change.  I'm more worried about there being no checks and balances in the Congress.  The Republican's will have the control over everything.  THAT scares me.
Not that there aren't some reasonable Republicans, there are but not enough to override the extreme right wing ones.

If Trump did anything too dangerous we could have him impeached.

Love the Redeemer and Lady Liberty together.  Funny!   

[stayed]

I like your calm and orderly comments Mitzpah.  Soothing to be honest.  The only thing I would disagree about is your opinion of HRC.  She has been given an extremely bad reputation, quite unjustly in many people far more informed then myself.  Sadly, the media tries to be real, and report the news but they are operating on RATINGS much the same as any other TV/Cable network. 

That means, that if it attracts more attention to report that Hilary Rodham Clintons emails have been leaked and there is some pretty incriminating stuff in there, then so be it.  They KNOW most people will never read the damn things.  Being a bit of news junky and a closet Hilary Clinton fan, I actually took a look at those emails.  Seriously, I was shocked at how little was in them.  My personal opinion, this was a woman who had prepared her entire life to run for the highest office in he land and she was scrupulously careful about everything she did, wrote and said. 

Even her taxes were laid out straightforward, not even taking a chance claiming something that would reduce her taxes on the off chance that she could be accused of tax evasion or some such thing. The list goes on.  I think her team could have explained the emails and many of the accusations much better then they did.  Still, her being the person she is, I think she felt her ACTIONS spoke for her. 

This is quite a travesty to be honest.  Hilary was the most qualified, honest, even tempered person for this job.  Trump and his hatchet team, managed to portray her otherwise, the media in their NEED for ratings, helped.  The rest is history. 

I think we are watching the beginning of the end for the United States of America.  A divided nation cannot survive.  A nation unwilling to keep pace or work within the dynamics of its time, cannot survive.  A nation that supports guns, violence, hypocrisy and divisiveness, cannot survive. 

I will not be watching the Inauguration this time.  Watching one of the classiest first families leaving Washington and being replaced by a Your Fired and his porn star first lady, will be more then I can stomach.

Stayed

[Phoenix]

America has never been post racial. Many people are progressive, open and are utterly and completely appalled, and put our actions where we say our values are. There is still, however, a faction of people who--due to a lack of education or exposure--coupled with a distrust of government, and a frustration with the economy and jobs are looking for someone to blame and someone to "save" them. They believe the racist hype that "those people" took my job. No. The truth is that companies--including some of Trump's--choose to outsource and in doing so, also abuse people from other countries by not paying them a living wage because they can get away with it. Or they are automating to save money and eliminating jobs.  Greed took those jobs not people who need to eat and feed their children just as everyone else does. This country was built and populated by immigrants. Unless you are Native American in the U.S., you are from an immigrant legacy.

This country has, unfortunately, also been a white male patriarchy for a long time. Many white men are fine sharing the pie with others and, in fact work tirelessly for equality. But there are those who have long been threatened by the change---the shift from all white and male faces in power. They have liked the position of unchallenged superiority and power. They know how women and people of color have been treated in this country and fear that what they have done to others will be done to them.

The election of Obama was a seismic shift. But even then, I was seeing shirts that read, "Put the white back into the whitehouse" and people consistently said racist remark such as, "Obama doesn't seem black. He's smart and well spoken." "He seems like one of us and dresses like one of us." It was overwhelmingly women and people of color who elected Obama. And for some people it was okay "this one time." But a black man followed by a woman as President?  No way. That is too much. What if the white guys never get back into power? Of course we know that is nonsense given our political representatives are so skewed to the white male population. But there is fear....deep fear about a loss of the status quo and life as people know it. Change and difference---especially in some more rural areas--scares and intimidates. It's too much of an unknown. People feel out of their element--out of their comfort zone. And certain other people prey on this and use that fear just as Trump did to get elected.

I have to agree with Stayed about feigning ignorance or not voting. Those are choices. People can also choose to educate and inform themselves and exercise their priviledge to vote. We do not have a president in a vaccuum and we cannot elect one in a vaccuum. Yes, there are our personal issues to consider, but ultimately, it is about which person is best for our overall country and even our global friends and partners. We do not exist in a bubble. We have a responsibility to each other. We can't afford the luxury of not voting and not being informed. It is one of our most important and fundamental responsibilities/obligations as free people and citizens. And there has to be an understanding that it is a vote when people don't vote as it impacts the election either way. It may make people feel better to think this is not the case, but it is. It lets your fellow countrypeople and global community down. Period.

And if a person thinks a system is broken, be able to articulate exactly how and why and back that up with well researched fact. Then help fix it as there is surely room for improvement and I agree about term limits and such.

It's also untrue the president has no power. Yes, there are checks and balances and there should be, and our politicians work together (hopefully) but Presidents do have power, influence, impact and represent our country and agenda on the world stage. They also individually and personally meet with members of their own party and other parties to affect change, negotiate, and gain agreements for moving change forward. Saying the president has no real power is just another excuse for not exercising one's civic duty and becoming informed.

I also find the argument that people voted for Trump because he is not a career politician perplexing. In no other caree--let alone one this important--do we say, "I want someone to perform open heart surgery on me because she is not a career cardiac surgeon," or "I want a group of amateurs to rescue my family from a burning building because they are not career fire fighters, or I want my mail carrier to fly a jet with my family in it because she is not a career pilot. Geesh. There is nothing wrong with experienced experts in their field getting those jobs and if anyone thinks Trump has not greased a lot of palms and made a lot of promises, because he is not a "career politician," you are naive. Guilliani was one of Trump's biggest surrogates and now Trump is discussing him for his cabinet---quid pro quo. At least a career politician would have an idea what the hell he is doing.  If we don't like it. Change it. But change doesn't come from not participating.

Phoenix

[Thunder]

You're right Phoenix, when I said I was concerned, that is where my concern lies...on the world stage, not at home.
Can he meet world leaders and represent us in a positive way, it remains to be seen.

Bernie Sanders, he did want to fix some of out broken system and you see where that got him.
There is just too much powerful, big money behind this.  How do you fight them?  I don't know.

Term limits may help.  But other than that the American people would all need to stand up and say ENOUGH.
Maybe this will be a beginning.  Maybe..
Or everyone will just go back totheir place in line and nothing will change.

Sorry T, I also agree about not voting for a "career politician."
Unfortunately we need politicians who understand how our government works.  It's very different from running a company, but I'm sure you know that.   

[terrified_in_TN]

...

I also find the argument that people voted for Trump because he is not a career politician perplexing. In no other caree--let alone one this important--do we say, "I want someone to perform open heart surgery on me because she is not a career cardiac surgeon," or "I want a group of amateurs to rescue my family from a burning building because they are not career fire fighters, or I want my mail carrier to fly a jet with my family in it because she is not a career pilot. Geesh. There is nothing wrong with experienced experts in their field getting those jobs and if anyone thinks Trump has not greased a lot of palms and made a lot of promises, because he is not a "career politician," you are naive. Guilliani was one of Trump's biggest surrogates and now Trump is discussing him for his cabinet---quid pro quo. At least a career politician would have an idea what the hell he is doing.  If we don't like it. Change it. But change doesn't come from not participating.

Phoenix

You are correct, I wouldn't want a "non career pilot" flying my plane; but I feel *POLITICS* is different.  Why?  I am a pessimist I guess-although I do not know how many times it has happened in the past, the popular vote DOESN'T MATTER.  Doesn't count.  Yes it tells our "government" who "the people" want to lead this country, but in the end, it means a hill of beans.

The other problem I have is lobbyists.  Yes, I have no knowledge of what *actually* happens in D.C., but I feel that *MOST* politicians (and people in general) can be bought.  It all comes down to what their price is.

I am sure there are folks in political office that truly believe in their heart what they are doing for their country is in the BEST INTEREST of that country, but I believe it to be a very rare few.  Also, just because a person is PASSIONATE about their beliefs, does not make them right.

Make no mistake, politics IS a business.  And no one gets into business just for something to do.  You go into business to MAKE MONEY.

I am not your normal guy.  My personal stance:  "I am a PERSONAL CONSERVATIVE who believes in LIBERAL PUBLIC POLICY."

I guess you could say I am almost a closet socialist.  I look at countries like Denmark, Norway, and Sweden with envy.  Oh, I know there is no such thing as utopia, but I believe they have done things right.

I don't trust our government to do anything right, period.  I believe in socialized healthcare.  I believe in socialized education.  But our government, as it currently stands will NEVER get these programs right.  As long as corporate greed exists, politicians can be bought, and there is a dollar to be made, I see no way of turning things around.

Things will continue on just as they always have:  The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer, eventually the middle class will be wiped out, and then the economy will collapse because there are no more consumers left to "consume" and no more "Credit" left to hand out due to the sheer indebtedness of the population.

Letting my *almost* conspiracy mind show here (I don't believe in the new world order, the 9/11 conspiracies, and other radical things), but from what little I know of history, there are two events the put the nail in this country's coffin as far as I am conerned:

1913-President Woodrow Wilson enacts the Federal Income Tax law.
1971-Richard Nixon removes the US from the Gold Standard.

Getting off topic-I am not a *political* guy, but I AM a NUMBERS guy.  And our current economic model mathematically is unsustainable.

The most BORING, yet informative video you will see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

-T

[osb]

America has never been post racial. Many people are progressive, open and are utterly and completely appalled, and put our actions where we say our values are. There is still, however, a faction of people who--due to a lack of education or exposure--coupled with a distrust of government, and a frustration with the economy and jobs are looking for someone to blame and someone to "save" them. They believe the racist hype that "those people" took my job. No. The truth is that companies--including some of Trump's--choose to outsource and in doing so, also abuse people from other countries by not paying them a living wage because they can get away with it. Or they are automating to save money and eliminating jobs.  Greed took those jobs not people who need to eat and feed their children just as everyone else does. This country was built and populated by immigrants. Unless you are Native American in the U.S., you are from an immigrant legacy.
.....
I also find the argument that people voted for Trump because he is not a career politician perplexing. In no other career--let alone one this important--do we say, "I want someone to perform open heart surgery on me because she is not a career cardiac surgeon," or "I want a group of amateurs to rescue my family from a burning building because they are not career fire fighters, or I want my mail carrier to fly a jet with my family in it because she is not a career pilot.

Phoenix, hats off. Scapegoating, in times of economic trouble, has a dangerous legacy.

FWIW my brother in law became a politician, after 20 years as a doctor. Won a seat in parliament. Yes, he's seen the effects of poverty first-hand in his old job, and wants to fix the problem at source. But he's very conscious of being a rookie, and that this is a new job which requires knowledge and a skill set, for which there is a learning curve and to which his original skill set may not transfer. So he's learning how to be a politician, and I'm proud of him. I just can't imagine him showing up to say, "well, I've done a different job for 20 years, so now that I'm in politics, hand me the reins and get outta my way!"... 

Being in public life and working for the good of your fellow man requires some effort, and some willingness to learn; there's a why and a how to the business of effective compromise and consensus building. To dismiss anyone who's put in the time and learned how to do so  as 'a career politician' seems pretty facile. Terrified in TN, politics is not different from other jobs - as you say, people can be bought in any walk of life - but we need to trust that good people will be good, whatever job they happen to do at that moment. Then we need to vote for good people.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I also feel that although the president does have power (especially "influence"...look at the stock market....it was up based upon what he SAID he was going to do....nothing has actually happened YET), but other than that, he has no real power to enact any real meaningful change ON HIS OWN.

T,

I'm not into politics either but there are a few things that I know about the presidency and one is that the president has a lot of power to enact meaningful change. That is, change that can affect all of us in our daily affairs. Here are a few of the things the president can do. This is what our country has handed over to Donald Trump and it scares the heck out of me.

1. Issue executive orders. "Executive Orders do not require Congressional approval to take effect but they have the same legal weight as laws passed by Congress. " Here are links to an article about executive orders and a subject directory of the executive orders issued by President Obama.

http://www.thisnation.com/question/040.html
https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/obama-subjects.html

2. Choose and remove members of the president's cabinet. These are the people who direct some of the most powerful agencies in the world. In addition to selecting the agency directors, each agency has a large number of high level executives who are political appointees and serve at the pleasure of the president. Here's a list of the agencies represented in the president's cabinet. These agencies impact almost every aspect of most of our lives. Not only US citizens but people all over the world which is why Mitzpah makes a good point when she states that everyone in the world should have a say in the selection of the president.

http://www.ducksters.com/history/us_cabinet.php

3. Commander-in-Chief of the United States Military. Every single person in the military serves under the direction of the president of the United States. The president is authorized to direct the military's response to any real or perceived external threat. The president can send troops off to battle for up to 60 days without Congressional approval. And, of course, the president can order the use of nuclear weapons at any time with no oversight. Some links regarding the president's role as commander-in-chief and the power we have given Donald Trump to initiate a nuclear war..

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/commander_in_chief_powers
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-nuclear-weapons-missiles-nukes-button-launch-foreign-policy-213955

4. Veto bills lawfully passed by the Congress. In other words, reject the actions of the people's chosen representatives.

http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2016/10/04/how-important-is-the-u-s-presidents-veto-power-game-theory-tuesdays/

5. Nominate federal judges and justices. These are the people who interpret how our laws are applied. The Supreme Court justices even have the final authority to interpret how the US Constitution is to be applied. "Because federal judges and Supreme Court justices serve for life, a president's nomination decisions are in many ways his or her most important legacy. Many of these appointments will serve long after a president's term of office ends. Whether or not the results are a "combination of Justinian, Jesus Christ, and John Marshall," these choices can have an impact on generations to come." It's expected that during the next four years 4 new Supreme Court justices will be nominated. That's roughly half the members of the Supreme Court.

http://www.ushistory.org/gov/9d.asp
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/next-president-likely-appoint-4-supreme-court-justices

6. Nominate the members of the Federal Reserve Board. These people have a tremendous influence over the direction of not only the US economy but the world economy. A mere whisper regarding an impending FRB decision can cause stock markets around the world to strongly react. They directly control the cost of credit which impacts everything from the interest you'll pay on a housing loan to whether or not you'll be able to get a housing loan to whether businesses will be able to afford to borrow money to do business or to expand. Members of the FRB serve for 14 years and I almost forgot to mention them.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12591.htm
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2016/11/10/forget-the-supreme-court-lets-talk-president-trump-and-federal-reserve-board-appointments/#57f48ccd1637

These are some of the reasons why the US president is considered by many to be the most powerful man in the world. It's probably also why many president's seem to age significantly during their term(s).

I hate to say this because it may make me sound like an elitist but it really bothers me to see people entering the polling place who I know are clueless about the issues when their vote carries the same weight as that of people like Phoenix and Thunder who carefully study the issues and vote with their consciences.

Your article about the demise of democracies does not have to come true. We can disrupt it by overcoming the apathy. I've read articles recently stating that the shock of Brexit and Trump's election seem to have caused many to begin to be more involved in the political process. I pray this is true and that it continues and accelerates.

"From bondage to spiritual faith;
 from spiritual faith to great courage;
 from courage to liberty;
 from liberty to abundance;
 from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to apathy;
 from apathy to dependence;
 from dependency back again into bondage."

The other problem I have is lobbyists.  Yes, I have no knowledge of what *actually* happens in D.C., but I feel that *MOST* politicians (and people in general) can be bought.  It all comes down to what their price is.

I won't argue with but I will say that I donate to Political Action Committees that advocate for the issues I'm interested in. You might also be surprised to hear that most politicians have an office staff who track and count communications from their constituency about the issues. A written letter will carry more weight than an email.

I can't believe I spent so much time writing this. I hope somebody reads it. 

[Phoenix]

I don't disagree with you on a number of points, TN, including aspects of countries like Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. I'm also not one to villify aspects of socialism. There is no perfect system and we can learn from many of them, as we can learn from each other.

Great point Osb:

To dismiss anyone who's put in the time and learned how to do so  as 'a career politician' seems pretty facile. Politics is not different from other jobs -  people can be bought in any walk of life - but we need to trust that good people will be good, whatever job they happen to do at that moment. Then we need to vote for good people.

And EXCELLENT information MyBrainIsBroken. Thank you for posting it!

Maybe, those of us who have navigated MLC and lived to tell about it, are ready for the next challenge---saving America and revising our political system. 

Phoenix

[MoreWillBeRevealed]

I am just so upset my vote didn't count because I live in New York. Thanks to our electoral college system the popular vote didn't win. Instead, certain states get extra votes. THAT part is the biggest travesty. Clinton won the popular vote. WE voted her in. But not so. Ridiculous. The only positive thing is Trump is not a true conservative republican. He has some moderate to liberal views. Possibly this could help some of us. Also, we get to see Alec Baldwin portray Trump on Saturday Night Live. Can't wait for that!