[nah]

This thread is better than the man cave.

[ruggedendurance]

Thanks for all the posts.
It gives me hope that I am processing this properly.
When it first happened.   I couldn't find my a$$ with both hands and a flashlight.   I was completely sideswiped by the whole thing.   I never imagined my marriage would produce the bull$hit I've lived for the last 4yrs.
I spent the first year in shock.
Second year in disbelief.   
Third year...........  that was last year.
Now.   I finally feel that I am completely done with any thoughts of her, one way or the other.
I've accepted all of it for what it was.

The question bothered me because of what I had heard and what I had seen from couples.    When I heard that bit from the comedian.   I assumed.   Most women marry a man and expect to turn him into the "perfect" mate.

I believe it is fine and good to bring out the best in your spouse.    But.   If your effort is to bring out certain qualities for selfish reasons?

I guess I'm saying.   I've learned a lot about projection.....

If my spouse believes she needs more money to be happy.   She could assume that I would be happier if I had a a better paying job......   So she comes up with this plan that sends me to a couple of years of schooling.    Then she is all over the resume' and the job hunt.   She is on cloud nine because I am going to get a better paying job...........   She is positive I am on cloud nine with her because of all the effort and encouragement I'm getting from her.

Fact is.   I liked my job.   I made enough money to be comfortable.

I am starting to feel pushed into some new lifestyle that I am not very interested in.

You know what?   If she could get control of her spending........... we would have more money!  Problem solved!   I keep the job I like and everybody is happy.........

That is just a scenario.  But.   I feel that is the kind of $hit I was being subjected to.    She wanted me to be a certain way, so she could feel better about herself.........

I called it feminized, less macho, a bunch of other bull$hit.   But the reality was.   She didn't feel good about herself so I had to change.........

Fact is.   I was being pushed and manipulated in the marriage and I never realized it.    I was supposed to become some kind of shining example for her benefit.

$hitty set-up.

So.  Confidence is the word.   

Knowledge would go a long ways also.

I am thinking now.   It wasn't so much a lack of confidence as it was a willingness to go along.    Be a team player.   Do what is best for the team/marriage/family.

I was being manipulated and didn't recognize it.    I was being pushed to be more of myself to make up for some lack in her.   When in actuality.......   she simply suffered from low self esteem and it was easier for her to work on me than it was for her to work on herself.

I could never do enough to make her happy........   she had no interest in looking inside for answers.

As of this minute.   this sounds logical.....   It even makes a certain amount of sense.

If I'm on the right track with this?   Who knows...........

[OldPilot]

I could never do enough to make her happy........   she had no interest in looking inside for answers.

It wasn't your job to make her happy.

It is only your job to make yourself happy.

Hopefully you can find this happiness without the use of mind altering drugs or chemicals.

I think you are on the right track.

[in it]

RE?

I was being manipulated and didn't recognize it.    I was being pushed to be more of myself to make up for some lack in her.   When in actuality.......   she simply suffered from low self esteem and it was easier for her to work on me than it was for her to work on herself.

That statement makes a great deal of sense to me. At some point we allowed that for whatever reason or maybe some unconscious need.

I agree with OP in his statement. It wasn't your job to make someone else happy.

[hawk]

Rugged,


This is something to think about too.. a while ago it was in the news that a bunch of rough and tough veterans were coming out as transgender. Is it a surprise? Get rid of the stereotypical macho stuff and think about what first responders are typically associated with? A deep love of children, animals, family, cooking, a sense of nesting and protecting the "family" whether it be theirs or someone else's... Those are all female personality traits. The "male" drive that it takes to commit acts of violence or response makes up only a small portion of that person.

gman , love where ya comin from.  but with respect gotta disagree on one thing,
Yaknow , well for me anyway, anyone else can do what they want.
But l would never call those things like the children animals family and ra ra female traits at all.
There's nothing unmanly about any of that what so ever. l have all those traits and a lot more . My gf calls me a big chiwawa, can't spell that btw, LP l need you     ,  It's bloody funny actually but don't worry she calls me lots of other things too that l better not put in or l might blow up hs but they're nice things , cool things, ummm. mostly  .

But personally l've always thought it's the bigger man that can be gentle and loving of things such as stuff like you've mentioned. l'd actually think the man that can't feel things like that kinda love has problems.
We're no different from anyone else , we have a heart and soft spots for affection and many of the things in life too.
But there is a difference and l do get where RE and yourself and some others are coming from especially with the manipulation thing.
And especially with a double standard thing in some cases ..

ahhh, dunno if any of this made sense. but just sayin my 2 cents for what it's worth.


Edit - Fix Quote - OP

[gman242]

Youre not wrong.. Kindness and gentleness are qualaties you cant put a label on, although we often do in our culture.

I just meant it to say you are who you are and I myself have found it interesting that what qualaties we would often consider to be polar opposites, often peacefully co exisit within the same person.

My grandfather in particular is an excellent example of that. He is about the saltiest WW2 i have ever seen, but i also have never met a kinder person in my life either.
.

[ruggedendurance]

gman,
I appreciate the response and agree with most of it.

This is something to think about too.. a while ago it was in the news that a bunch of rough and tough veterans were coming out as transgender. Is it a surprise? Get rid of the stereotypical macho stuff and think about what first responders are typically associated with? A deep love of children, animals, family, cooking, a sense of nesting and protecting the "family" whether it be theirs or someone else's... Those are all female personality traits. The "male" drive that it takes to commit acts of violence or response makes up only a small portion of that person.

One of my boys had served a tour in Iraq.   The kid that went over there was as kind and loving as any on the planet.   The person that came home was tortured and conflicted.
Which leads me to the point I'm going to make.   Or at least my reasoning for it.
I don't know if it takes a man to commit acts of violence.   Many of our finest women have served also and down through history.   There have been women snipers that have been extremely proficient at their jobs...    I cannot think of one occupation that would better qualify as violent..

I feel that a person that completely changes their personality or identity is a tortured/conflicted person.   They become so disillusioned by the thoughts of themselves.   They turned on everything they used to think.    I see these people as very similar to the people that went into MLC and did their level best to be the exact opposite of the person they portrayed to us in the marriage...
I felt the same way about Bruce Jenner.   The media promoted him as being so "brave" to have mutilated himself into a woman............    I saw him as a tortured human being.     Completely uncomfortable in his own skin.

I may be way off on this.  Many of my thoughts are suspect.   Even to me.   Although.   I do feel that it takes a great deal of pain to make a person want to change everything about themselves.

I think it is far more normal to admit our weaknesses and work around them, than it is to $hit can our entire lives, to launch off into the world as a totally new/different human being.

[Dji76]

What if we take the other side of that coin re? I agree, an incredible amount of pain will cause an incredible change in a person. What if we lbs take that pain, recogize our weaknesses and decide to level up our lives? Work hard on ourselves to make positive changes and become the person we want to be! I guess I disagree with the "we are who we are" idea... Or maybe thats just who i am.

[BBhelp]

What if we take the other side of that coin re? I agree, an incredible amount of pain will cause an incredible change in a person. What if we lbs take that pain, recogize our weaknesses and decide to level up our lives? Work hard on ourselves to make positive changes and become the person we want to be! I guess I disagree with the "we are who we are" idea... Or maybe thats just who i am.

^^^THIS^^^

[gman242]

I don't know if it takes a man to commit acts of violence.

I was referring simply to the "essence" rather than the physical gender, to do so. I'm just saying that concern for family and protection (even in those female snipers) makes up the core of their person, whereas the drive to do what's necessary makes up a very small proportion in comparison.

You've made an excellent point and connection though in your post. I am sorry for your son's experiences and homecoming and please know that there is plenty of help available to him, if he isn't seeking it already. I would contact your local VA for resources as a place to start.

I too will ^^THIS^^ to Dji76's post.