[denjef31]

Question: don't you think when you areconfised and trying to make decisions the the affair partner doesn't help matters? Why not get rid of them ? And I still don't understand this emotional attach emery . Can you give an example ? Maybe in a conversation they may have or action ? That part really confused me .  Explain this emotional attachment pleas . I just don't get it .

Regardless of whether this is an MLC affair or EXIT affair, the basic principals and concepts are the same. Most affairs start off with basic conversation. Someone acknowledging something small such as they love the shirt, dress, shoes, glasses (insert whatever you choose) That makes anyone feel good about themselves to be noticed by someone who appears to have no motivation to say that so it must be true!

They start talking casually, finding out things about each other, they laugh, they make jokes, they talk about simple things that married couples who have been together for years have simply forgotten to do as it just doesn't seem so important anymore when you have bills, kids, cleaning, cooking and other responsibilities. While this is the reality of your life, this OP is slowly filling a void that has been neglected for quite sometime. You didn't realize you were neglecting your H/W because you did everything you thought a loving spouse should and your spouse gave you no indication that things were off. It happens!!!

At some point an emotional attachment is built and your spouse starts to look at this OP as a very close friend, perhaps there best friend. After all they haven't laughed this hard, or shared this much with anyone and felt totally comfortable in years. They cant tell you, you would suspect something was wrong. They feel it to but they feel they are capable of having a platonic friendship and if they told you then you would just nag them and accuse them of things they are not doing (yet).

At some point lines do get crossed, somebody says something inappropriate to the other, and instead of getting a look of shock the person receives a look of being pleasantly surprised with a smile on their face. It is clear the other person has been thinking about the same things....if only I wasn't married, if only I met you first, or where were you 20 years ago? This then becomes an obsession where you are constantly thinking about OP. The euphoric feelings start to kick in because suddenly you have become aware that someone you think you have so much in common with obviously feels the same way about you. This has got to be fate right? How is that of all the milliions of people on this earth, two people who have so much in common, and are attracted to each other happen to work in the same office, or frequent the same restaurant or coffee shop, or have same circle of friends/business acquaintances.

You can see how this quickly adds up to a person who is thinking irrationally and behaving impulsively. By the time the spouse usually finds out it has been going on for a while and now the feelings are strong. They cant imagine not having the OP in their life but they still realize they have a marriage, family, and obligations so this is when you will start to see the confusion and cycling. They want to make it work and stop what is clearly wrong but it hasn't to be right or why do I feel this way? Why did you bring her/him into my life if it wasn't meant to be?  When you have reached this point most people are not able to walk away. They are not able to willingly go into withdrawal and feel the loss of this OP who has awoke something they haven't felt in so long.

At first they know they love their spouse and that is where they belong, but the more time that is spent with OM/OW those feelings become muddy and they are no longer sure about anything because the feelings for OW/OM are growing. They feel it is love but it isn't. It is the hormones. Here comes BD and your world as you know it turned upside down. Some will try to end it and promise to stop talking to OP but this is false. They want to, they try, but someone initiates contact and the confusion, running in circles, and being unsure of what to do begins. This is why it must play out, infatuation does not last and there is nothing you can do to stop it so you must step aside and let them carry on with it until it's conclusion.

[denjef31]

Thanks . I totally " saw my h in the beginning fun part. He always seemed happy but he was always drinking . Anyway he is way past that. Over an odd feeling he keeps saying to himself , one last time with ow. To much to explain of why I feel this .  But beside the big you get what is this emotional bond.   Like someone said she. Making a decision whether to go home or not,they would be with their h feel good but then go back to om for emotional well being .what is the difference?   I understand the addiction thing  , that's not emotional. I also believe that could be true of the mlc saying if you stopped begging I would have woke up sooner a little but isn't it over when the crisis is over. All about them. Is that just another excuse or putting blame on the lbs that the crisis last longer..   I'm a recovering alcoholic . Now I could say thAt a million times. If only he did oft hey would do .... It wasn't until I was emotionally empty. Now if the begging and pleading stop and help the Mlc to get to that empty place then it makes sense.

It is both. It is an addiction as well as an emotional connection. Most affairs are not just physical, they have built a friendship, and an emotional attachment to another person who are not their spouse. They share hopes, dreams, aspirations, future desires, and what if with each other just as you would if you were single and dating but at least one of them are not single and free to be dating. What is unique about this is the one of these individuals are depressed and searching for happiness outside of their normal lives, and marriages. They are looking for a fixer, to rewrite history.

What they do not realize is that while at first this OP may seem like they make you happy, but it is only temporary and the reality of you are no better than you were before you met them, and usually worse because now you are experiencing guilt, self loathe, you hurt, your kids hurt, your spouse hurt, and you know what you should and need to do but the reality is either way you look at it you are going to hurt someone. Someone is going to get hurt with whatever decision you make so you do nothing but hope one of them makes it easy on you and leave the relationship. You think this would relieve your guilt as you didn't leave your spouse did.

Eventually you realize your spouse leaving due to your affair still did not give you the happiness you thought you would have. Nor did it relieve your guilt. The OP is not making you happy, it was a nice dream when you could leave him/her and go back to your real family and life. When you move in with AP and start sharing a household, bills, having kids, expectations increases, fights start and then you realized what you just got out of is happening again. You didn't gain anything as it was never about the marriage, it was about you and your own insecurities and self doubt. What is inside you internally if not fixed will carry on with you for each future relationships and that is what the MLC'er has to acknowledge and understand.

Maybe I am not making sense to some of you, but I hope some of you get it. Although it is not real love for the MLC'er they very much believe it is. They do feel and they do care but it just isn't love and so it will not last under false pretenses, lies, and guilt.

Edit to fix quote marks

[denjef31]

I don't know how that happened I quoted Keep Believing to respond to her and my reply is built within her quote sorry about that everybody

[No expectations]

It makes total sense, Denjaf.  Once again, thanks for your incredible insights

[Keep believing]

That's exactly what my h said. He didn't want to hurt her but feels bad for hurting me . That was in July . I told him how could that even matter . You have only known her for 2 years . But it was so easy to hurt your family . He also said no matter he's firetrucked . He is definitely waiting for some one to make the decision for him . Which the ow will never let him go . She is d with 4 little kids. She will take whatever he gives her.. He has now been staring to me why does it matter who he hangs out with. Like he doesn't want to let her go completely . His problem . If that's what he wants fine . I'm not going to compete with her . He will lose on the end . For what . A ow who coaxed him through a rough time . I told him before, she knew you were married so that's her problem . He tries to justify it by saying we were separated .wjatever he has to say to believe he didn't do wrong .  He also told me in July that they had talked and he said she said she told herself she wouldn't get involved with a man again with a crazy " wife or ex.   

[strength]

Denjef,  Great information.  I felt as though I was reading my H's story.  That is exactly how it happened for them.  I agree with KB that the OW had no right to pursue H when she knew H was married.  That shows OW has no self respect, dignity or morals.  It is mind boggling to think H can give  up his entire life for OW.  When I look at my H's case of almost 40 year difference, I can't imagine how in the world you can sustain a relationship.  What in the world can you have in common?  I believe all LBS will be the survivors in the end and the MLC'ers will be the losers if they don't push through the MLC and see all the damage they have done.  There is a lot for all MLC'ers to do in the end.  It is total devastation to the family, especially when absolutely no-one saw it coming in the M.

[Christina13]

   
     I have struggled in my situation to see what kind of affair this was. In my case , h went on a dating site . Met once for lunch then to a hotel the next day. And two more times in a week. I found out a month later by checking the bank. According to bank records it seems to show he was telling the truth in that area. There is nothing out of the usual before or since that week.
 My H also had used Snd I believe still is using drugs. The way he cheated even seems to be what would be considered a manic phase I think. Very over the top And out of character. He had told me straight out it was just for sex. Which is disgusting to me but I tend to believe him. I know the way he was with me after BD and he was different. Vulgar and crude. Like another person.
He told me we could remain intimate without feelings.
I just can't see him having feeling for anyone. He has abandoned the household , kids , and me.
 He has shown signs of mental illness. His doctor believes it's a dual diagnosis. Not just MLC but it's that too. I just don't know which came first. The chicken or the egg.
  I've wondered many times if it was an exit affair. But then I remember the complete confusion And going back and forth with me. Snd the lies. The change in personality. And even now manipulating our children.
  I don't know the extent of the relationship with the ow. He laughs and says it wasn't a relationship. The way he talks about it , he doesn't care if he hurts me. He acts like this is normal talk and I'm not his wife.
He even says so what I f someone , you did so much worse to me.
I would think if he believed he was in love or this was a relationship hevwas leaving me for he'd be cruel enough to say. And I would know by now. He lives with his parents.
 Im wondering what part his cheating played in all of this mess.
Gman,
I've seen that manic phase. I just don't know if it's drugs or mental or both.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this kind of cheating and why he is running harder all of a sudden ?

[Roma]

Hi Christina,

It sounds a lot like your H was/is in Replay which mimics Bipolar. The highs of mania and lows of 'male or MLC depression'. pls see my thread on what male on MLC depression because 'male depression is completely different than female depression.

The medical community doesn't accept MLC, yet those of us who experience it by others sure do. I see MLC as temporary mental illness. you can find Bipolar, Narcissism, Borderline personality, and maybe others.

The most important thing is for you to focus on yourself and let your H go through the MLC phases so he can finally heal childhood wounds. His MLC has nothing to do with you.

[1trouble]

Christina

My H had a coke problem a long time ago, when he went into MLC I thought he was relapsing, the behaviour was very very similar.

He was manic, couldn't sleep, was hyper active, was on an extreme diet............what I was seeing was the dopamine rush the OW was giving him (coke acts the same, giving a dopamine high).

When people are infatuated with someone they are 'high' we can all remember some time in our life where this has been the case.

BUT.....my H also said about 5-6 weeks after I started seeing this 'manic' behaviour....that he had a foggy head, he couldn't think straight.....he felt numb............he knew he loved me, but he couldn't feel it......he couldn't see any point in eating, music, TV anything, he just felt numb....

Now from what I have read from depression that's how they feel devoid of feeling.

So imagine you feel nothing.................the high, the dopamine rush the AP gives is going to be accentuated ......

Because the affair partner is like a life jacket to a drowning man..............in the beginning that is.

BUT as with cocaine, the initial high is the biggest high.............after that they are on a downward slope...........chasing the dragon....the elusive high of the first 'hit'.........they will never find again............but they keep looking for it, doing everything the AP wants, demands, needs because the reward is (they think) the high, but the high is fleeting because like any 'chemically induced high its artificial and eventually doesnt work as the brain gets use to it and so they have to face what they have been running from OR go further into the depths and never facing anything

In the beginning they totally lack empathy because they are being driven by a primeval need to run away from the depths of despair they are feeling and they are looking for external reasons for the despair...its easy to think we are the reason because running away might make it better, might mean they can fix it and with the high they get from the initial 'escape' and affair it only goes to reaffirm this belief...as time goes on the guilt and shame creep in, the high goes, there are moments of lucidity and they 'know' but it takes a very long time for them to face the problem might be with them.

In between time they make a mess a big royal mess.............

But these "relationships" are never about lurve..................they are all about a chemical high, an escape and an illusion....

once you really get this, it hurts less......it still hurts but it hurts less....and you realise, really you cant do anything but get on with your life, as your H has to go through this and you either have to wait for the brain chemicals to right themselves or move on....what ever you feel is your path...

I have said it many many times but OW is just cocaine with a pulse and I know that's true

[whatthe????]

El,
can you provide the link to the particular thread that has the MLC depression list please.  I saw a good while back a comprehensive list with descriptions that I would like to pass on to a friend who has found herself in an all too familiar place.
thanks