[Did your MLC'er suffer from childhood abuse (physically, emotionally or other)?]

Did your MLC'er suffer from childhood abuse (physically, emotionally or other)?

Yes

65 (70.7%)

No

17 (18.5%)

Don't Know

10 (10.9%)

Total Members Voted: 92

[in it]

And, at least here, men talk about their issues, including depression. Not all men, of course, but more and more do.

Yes Anjae I agree and that's a good thing..

[Keep believing]

I believe that is the question still.   if most mental illnesses are not dx through testing but pure behavior and thoughts , it still doesn't make sense that mlc is not dx. I do believe it is a true type of mental illness. call it a syndrome .  syndrome definition: is a group of symptoms in which a  dx is made : which  all mlcers have the same of . i can't get over the similarities, words spoken, action, rage, upbrupty  leaving , the abandonment of children , do not all fit into a dx for something in the medical/psychological world.  maybe because it has been made of something people make fun of. all the jokes of a midlife crisis. ( i would have to say those are the transitions and not true crisis cases). I quite honestly am so sick of people saying , it was your marriage,. he just didn't want to be with you.   then can they explain the abandment of their kids, their partying , acting like teenagers. no responsibility taken. most become broke. why the anger and blame on the lbs. do people make fun of bipolar or depression or anxiety ? nope and they are all dx.  if they were made fun of , would people take it seriously? probably not   . just another view.

[Not Applicable]

Blaming hormones is a popular thing in culture especially when a woman is in a bad mood, either her period or menopause is blamed. I don't think that MLC is a hormonal problem though. It just happens to occur when there are hormonal changes going on in people but that doesn't necessarily mean the hormones are involved.

Look at the number of people in the poll above that have said their spouses were abused as children. I think the rates are likely higher. Simply because at least in the case of sexual abuse, I have read that it can take 30 years before a sexually abused child will even tell ANYONE what happened to them. I know an LBS whose MLCer's attitudes toward his mother and her own remarks suggest that she abused him in some way. My friend suspects she molested him as a child. But he has never said that she did at all. So those who voted "no" in the above poll may simply be married to MLCers who have kept the abuse they suffered secret.

That said, I believe MLC is caused by damage to the growing child's brain due to abuse. There are studies that show that abuse can affect a child's brain development. Obviously, there are also CPTSD elements that could come into play in that regard. The affects of what happened decades earlier only manifest themselves at a later date, due to some sort of trigger.

[Jackolar12]

Blaming hormones is a popular thing in culture especially when a woman is in a bad mood, either her period or menopause is blamed. I don't think that MLC is a hormonal problem though. It just happens to occur when there are hormonal changes going on in people but that doesn't necessarily mean the hormones are involved.

On the other hand Goner several women who have committed murder have successfully defended their case by using out of control hormones during their menses as the cause of their murderous behaviours. Yes the hormones made me do it!! Adolescents go through puberty and change their attitudes and behaviours and so could an adult going through a change of life. These changes are medically recognised while MLC is not. Other cultures value old age and have a better time during the menopause/andropause.

[Anjae]

Keep, no, it does not make MLC is not diagnosed, since most mentall illness is diagnosed on behaviour and thoughts, not tests.

Do you have anything against female doctors, Jack? If the doctors were male, the appointment was going to be as short. It has to do with the system, not the Dr gender.

Doctors make mistakes, regardless of gender or country. Medicine is not a science, let alone and exact one.

But those are different issues.

The medical profession do not seem concerned about MLC, it would seem many don't believe it exists at all. What would it take to change their minds?

I don't know. A start may be to define what is MLC. A doctor is not going to pay attention to the oh, it is a childhood/FOO issue, unless they are a psychiatrist and even so, it would depend.

And can it be better explained by other phenomena.

It can be explained with depression, that is a medical issue.

On the other hand Goner several women who have committed murder have successfully defended their case by using out of control hormones during their menses as the cause of their murderous behaviours. Yes the hormones made me do it!!

Maybe where you're from. And men have managed to use a series of other things. Lets be clear, hormones can totally mess up some people, men or women. It is not an exclusive of women. But there is no indication most MLCers have an hormonal probk

Depression can totally mess up men and women.

I don't believe MCL comes from sexual abuse in childhood. I think it has to do with stress, depression and fear of aging. All real life MLCers I know, my self aside, mention age as the cause of their crisis. And depression can totally mess up both men and women.

The reason why MLC is not recognised medically and in society is because even among those who believe in MLC there is no consensus about what MLC is/what causes it.

[Not Applicable]

My husband has explained his choices as being due to fear of aging. No doubt about that. He's been very explicit in that regard. I will give you that many of them do use aging as justification for what they do.

However, his actual odd behavior during this MLC can only be explained as very twisted and complex reaction and manifestation of the abuse he suffered as a child and his childhood in general. It has absolutely nothing to do with the coming old age.

I think there is a disconnect with between how they justify their behavior and the actual behavior itself.

And perhaps that is why and how they eventually come out of it. They realize their justifications just didn't hold water and they realize what was subconsciously motivating them.

[Treasur]

I suspect it is mostly recognised as Anjae says by the external symptoms...depression or anxiety, maybe addiction if that's in the mix. Occasionally maybe as a kind of complex-ptsd depending on life events. There are a few therapists who see it as a kind of crisis, even if they don't call it MLC. Maybe less so with psychiatrists. Like other complex physical illnesses though, multiple causes and differential 'symptoms' make it difficult to pin down probably. And I suspect most MLCers - while in crisis anyway - are less than fully engaged or honest in the process. Most seem to use therapy to justify their choices.

Perhaps later in the crisis, therapists and psychiatrists may see a fuller picture and the MLCer may be more actively ready to look at the wider picture.

[Anjae]

I will give you that many of them do use aging as justification for what they do.

I think often that is all there is to it, we just like to complicate what is simple. They start with the age thinking thing, it leads to them being depressed, then, bang I need to do something now before I become too old. Forgetting that while they are doing it they are getting old.

Not all MLCers were abused. Therefore, abuse cannot be the reason. Or, at least, it cannot be the reason for all MLCers.

I don't know what makes them come out of it. It seems to be different for each one. But I have never heard a post-MLC MLCer saying anything other than it was because of age. It there were others issues, they forgot them or never knew.

Therapist and psychiatrists don't seem to help at all in a real MLC. There are many therapists and experts, Larry Bilotta, Jed Diamond,  Conway and others who say they can help a person in MLC. What they mean is a person in midlife transition. So far, I have never come across anyone who can really help a deep in crisis true MLCer.

When a MLCer hits rock bottom, then, a therapist/psychiatrists may be of help. It was for my cousin.

[Jackolar12]

Keep, no, it does not make MLC is not diagnosed, since most mentall illness is diagnosed on behaviour and thoughts, not tests.

Do you have anything against female doctors, Jack? If the doctors were male, the appointment was going to be as short. It has to do with the system, not the Dr gender.

Doctors make mistakes, regardless of gender or country. Medicine is not a science, let alone and exact one.

But those are different issues.

The medical profession do not seem concerned about MLC, it would seem many don't believe it exists at all. What would it take to change their minds?

I don't know. A start may be to define what is MLC. A doctor is not going to pay attention to the oh, it is a childhood/FOO issue, unless they are a psychiatrist and even so, it would depend.

And can it be better explained by other phenomena.

It can be explained with depression, that is a medical issue.

On the other hand Goner several women who have committed murder have successfully defended their case by using out of control hormones during their menses as the cause of their murderous behaviours. Yes the hormones made me do it!!

Maybe where you're from. And men have managed to use a series of other things. Lets be clear, hormones can totally mess up some people, men or women. It is not an exclusive of women. But there is no indication most MLCers have an hormonal probk

Depression can totally mess up men and women.

I don't believe MCL comes from sexual abuse in childhood. I think it has to do with stress, depression and fear of aging. All real life MLCers I know, my self aside, mention age as the cause of their crisis. And depression can totally mess up both men and women.

The reason why MLC is not recognised medically and in society is because even among those who believe in MLC there is no consensus about what MLC is/what causes it.

Anjae I only see female doctors in my surgery who I happen to like. Yes the systems at fault I haven’t said otherwise and doctors make mistakes and leave trusting people in pain and get sued/ struck off for their negligence some times.

People are driven by chemicals which include hormones and yes certain people can get crazy when their out of balance just like people in MLC, the example I gave was an American murder case. We haven’t had an andropause defence to my knowledge in my country.

I think childhood issues might have relevance with some people in the throes of turmoil and the fog of confusion looking back for tried and tested coping mechanisms to help them heal if they can’t see forward.

If the medical profession thought MLC existed it would have been in the DSM by now but there’s simply no tangible evidence to support it other than depression which can happen to any of us and can be attributed to many causes. The lack of academic research in this area would need to be addressed to prove its existence and importance. And I for one think surging hormones at midlife have a lot to do with it.

[Ready2Transform]

Right there with you, Jackolar12. Mentioning hormones may seem like a personal attack, but if you think more in terms of neurotransmitters and how new the science around them is, it's valid. Two resources I found early on that helped were the book "Venus on Fire, Mars on Ice" by Dr. John Gray, and this link from Dr. Joe Carver (especially the section on Serotonin): http://www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/Chemical%20Imbalance.html

No matter what I have learned and studied in all of these years post BD, I always go back to that link to find the most resonate truth for my situation.