[Treasur]

I think you make a fair point OR about trusting our own fear instincts. Not all of our spouses are physically violent but some are. All of them are emotionally abusive to different degrees.. And all of them blame others and see themselves as victims often. One of the hardest things for most LBS is accepting that the person we knew really IS doing what they are doing with no apparent empathy or concern about their previous values or persona or us. And most of us have seen the shark eyes.

[Velika]

I want to agree with OR and Treasur.

I think that many MLCers are functional psychopaths. Psychopathy isn’t an emotional state, but a physical state of the brain. Unfortunately I think a lot of therapy operates on the level of “humors” when it comes to the brain. I really hope one day many therapy offices look at the brain like Amen Clinic, as a having a physical impact on emotion and behavior.

Until this time, many of us are faced with a double trauma of seeing something is horribly wrong with our spouse and not having others believe us. Shark eyes aren’t the only physical symptom of MLC. Some LBS wrote about their former spouse having an odd smell, aging rapidly, having a stiff gait, gaining weight in a certain pattern.

I think emotional and physical violence are deal breakers. If your former spouse “monsters” or hurts you in any way, go no contact. Early on, many LBS are in such a shock they can’t process what is happening. I know I myself went into a type of fantasy thinking that my ex would slowly wake up. I didn’t want to lose my family, my home, so much time with my son.

My ex has never harmed me physically but he could. He began purchasing a lot of guns and became obsessed with hunting soon into this. This did not just include shooting animals but also skinning, gutting, and dismembering them.

I also want to add, if your spouse has done something where you can press charges, like sexual assault, please press charges and get a restraining order. Protect your physical safety.

[Anjae]

How do we know MLCERS go back to "normal",  BTW? From what is written here, it sure doesnt seem like they ALL do. I will also point out I said "likening" not "linking"  likening means like, as in "looks like"

Easy, I did, Ready2 did, all HS member who had a MLC did, my cousin who had a MLC did, everyone I know in real life whose crisis is done did, RCR's husband did, Stayed's husband did, everyone here reconciled knows it, etc.

Do I think the black eye/shark eye phenomenon is related to an emotional state? Yes. Do I think MLCers  and serial killers/rapists end up in an emotional state? Yes. It would be false logic to then say if serial killers/rapists and MLCers  both have the black eye phenomenon,  they are the same.

Except the black eyes things is not what most MLCer have. MLCers (most of them) have dead eyes/shark eyes, different from black eyes. Serial killer suffer from a PD, that is not emotional, that is neurological and they tend to had been born that way. Just lile pedophiles, who are also born that way because of a malfuction of the brain.

As for rapist, there are different types of rapist, the serial rapist (was the person born that way? who, like the serial rapist has a PD, therefore, not an emotional, but a brain issue), the war rapist, the guy who goes along belong he is with a gang, the domestic abuser, etc. Are they all in an emotional state? I have no idea.


It does not make sense to compare someone that is not emotional - serial killier and serial rapists, and narcisist (another PD, hence, not emotional), to MLCer that are emotional.

All of a sudden, it seems pretty much everyone on HS found out their spouse had PD traits, but, for whatever reason, the LBS never notice them before. Both weird and interesting.

This got really contentious because someone asked "So apparently, rapists adopt shark eyes, too.What happens, physiologically, to have their eyes turn this way? " It seemed a fair question.

No, it was black eyes. Black eyes and shark/dead eyes are not the same thing. It does not seem fair at all. Let alone coming from a woman whose husband is a rapist - her husband raped her. Therefore, I would say that, yes, when it comes to megogirl's husband he may have the same eyes rapist have because he is a rapist, but that does not apply to most MLCer, since most of our MLCer are not rapists.

And most of us have seen the shark eyes.

We have. But, again, the shark/dead eyes are not the eyes turning black.

I think that many MLCers are functional psychopaths.

I doubt, V. MLCers are emotional, psychopaths aren't.

[OffRoad]

How do we know MLCERS go back to "normal",  BTW? From what is written here, it sure doesnt seem like they ALL do. I will also point out I said "likening" not "linking"  likening means like, as in "looks like"

Easy, I did, Ready2 did, all HS member who had a MLC did, my cousin who had a MLC did, everyone I know in real life whose crisis is done did, RCR's husband did, Stayed's husband did, everyone here reconciled knows it, etc.

That is so funny! Because SOME people went back to normal, you say that proves they ALL do?  I don't think so, but as I said, you are entitled to your opinion.

[megogirl]

In all fairness, I thought "shark" eyes WERE black.  Black-eyes is my only frame of reference, so apparently I've never seen "shark" eyes.

Thank you tho, OR - I was definitely surprised there was any backlash at my comment!

[Ready2Transform]

Pupil dilation is regulated by the sympathetic nervous system, the part of the body that controls our fight-or-flight response. So even when psychosis causes changes in pupil dilation, such as by triggering an excited state of fear or anger, the dilation itself is identical to dilation in the non-mentally ill.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/01/james_holmes_mental_illness_are_dilated_pupils_a_sign_of_mental_state.html


This is a minor issue compared to the other big issues on this thread about the likelihood of a violent offender being cured by a personality crisis. I think xyz's post is very on point. Sometimes something so bad can happen that cognitive dissonance attempts to normalize it so we don't go into a deeper state of trauma. We have all likely been there at least once during the course of this experience, though the causes may not have been so huge. Sometimes we have to define things in a different way for awhile until we're ready to tackle it. That may mean feeling a spouse is not as disordered as they actually are, or the opposite - seeing them as an extreme version of the crisis to justify more extreme detachment. Whatever it is, we do what we have to when we need to until we heal. Being an LBS, in stages, is also a crisis of its own.

[Anjae]

That is so funny! Because SOME people went back to normal, you say that proves they ALL do?  I don't think so, but as I said, you are entitled to your opinion.

I never said all. Nor do I recall anyone of HS ever saying all. I have always said most. It is also in the articles that MLC is, for most, temporary.

It is not some people, it is a lot of people. I did not mention everyone here who had a MLC, knows former MLCers, is reconcilled but has long stop posting, has a spouse wanting back, but the LBS is not interested, the threads that talk about former non HS members MLCer, etc.

Not sure I understand you OR. I always thought you believe in MLC, but, now, it does not seem so.

It is  a fact that MLCers go back to normal, but someone with a PD does not since the PD does not go away. It is also a fact that some MLCers remain stuck in MLC. Remain stuck in MLC is not the same as having a PD.

Of course your comment caused a backlash, megogirl. What were you expecting? Saying that someone said they noticed Harvey Weinstein'ss black eyes (one person, by the way. We have no idea if others saw the black eyes or didn't)  - I asked what colour are his eyes, but you didn't answer, saying your husband, a rapist, eyes turned black and going to MCLer's eyes are like rapist eyes, is not going to leave people pleased.

Most sharks eyes have a black cornea and blue iris. But shark eyes when applied to a MLCer or depressed person has more to do with empty, no one is one, no soul than the colour. MLCers, like depressed people, have dead eyes. There is no expression, no life, nothing, they are dead. Some MLCers even seem to have a veil that clouds their eyes.

This is a minor issue compared to the other big issues on this thread about the likelihood of a violent offender being cured by a personality crisis.

Agree. A violent offender is not going to be cured by MLC. He/she may be cured, or have treatment that will help him/her, but a MLC is not going to do it. Experts will, and we are not such experts.

OR, I think it would make more sense for you to be concerned with the fact that Megogirl's husband is a violent offender that has raped her, than with what is well known and has been talked about on HS for years on end, that MLCer do come out of MLC, and that MCL is, for most, a temporary condition.

As for you, Megogirl, it may be a good idea to allow yourself thinking time. 

[Not Applicable]

My ex has never harmed me physically but he could. He began purchasing a lot of guns and became obsessed with hunting soon into this. This did not just include shooting animals but also skinning, gutting, and dismembering them.

Uhh, all animals we eat have been killed, skinned, gutted and dismembered. It's just that buying your meat at the supermarket makes you forget those stages.

[Ready2Transform]

My ex has never harmed me physically but he could. He began purchasing a lot of guns and became obsessed with hunting soon into this. This did not just include shooting animals but also skinning, gutting, and dismembering them.

Uhh, all animals we eat have been killed, skinned, gutted and dismembered. It's just that buying your meat at the supermarket makes you forget those stages.

I think Velika was referring to the extreme change in her H's behavior to do these things, not the developed world in general. Mine did the same thing - went from vegetarian Buddhist to an extreme interest in hunting and gore that was out of character. Would watch YouTube videos to purposely desensitize himself to gutting things, which didn't seem to be completely related to the sport of hunting to me at the time (he was just being more violent in general). I'd grown up around hunters and going to the butcher shop with my parents my whole life, so it wasn't an "ick" factor for me, but more of a red flag, as this was on the completely opposite end of the lifestyle spectrum for him.

For what it's worth, Velika, mine is now not just Buddhist again, but vegan (something he refused to do when we were vegetarians because he didn't want to give up dairy). He and the OW went from planning to be pig farmers, to raising chickens, to now being extremists on the other end. I have no idea if he ever actually hunted or if it was just part of his public masculine mask. But you might give it a few years and see if the pendulum swings back again.

[Thunder]

I think if a person grows up doing those things, that's fine you're used to it, but it would be pretty disturbing to have man start doing this in middle age.    I would have thought it very strange, almost shocking, had my H started killing and gutting animals in his crisis.  He never hunted, or even owned a gun in his life.

I'm assuming the same with Velika's X.