[Dontgiveup]

trying2bok

While I agree that saving the marriage is not the primary intent here, I will say that one of the reasons I came on here was that RCR talked about Standing because of the belief in marriage.  When dealing with a spouse in MLC, saving the marriage may not be able to be a goal, as the MLCer can control on the front side of MLC whether the marriage stays or goes.

I Stand because it's the right thing to do.....it's my belief system.....and I love my ex-wife to the point that I am willing to let this MLC process do it's thing.

[limitless]

DGU,
Congratulations on reaching your 500th post!
You are an example of the fact that a divorce (if it happens) is just a piece of paper.
It really doesn't mean anything regarding the MLC and LBS journeys.
It doesn't end the pain that the MLC feels - even though they think that it could.
It doesn't end the LBS' journey.
It actually doesn't really end the marriage.  That happened back at BD.  The marriage died.  That relationship can never come back.
I guess what makes us different - is that deep down we know that a new marriage, a new relationship CAN be there - out in the distance of the horizon.
We hold on (even though we detach ) - as we know that our spouses are there - somewhere - deep in the alien who has invaded their body.  The people that we loved - had character, were brave, were loving/kind people - before they somehow lost their way.
I do not love the man my H is now.  I love the man he was....the man he can be.
Although I have truly let him go....I haven't given up on him.  I trust that he will do what he needs to do - to become the man he needs to be for himself.  Just as I work to become the woman that I need to be for my kids and myself.
I guess that's what makes us different.

L

[Dontgiveup]

Laursecan

Thank you.....that's very kind of you to say. 

I agree....no reason to be concerned about my divorce right now as my ex-wife's MLC trumps that.  One thing at a time I guess......besides, I'm a man, so I'm sure you will understand about my inability to multitask.

[Bewildered]

I agree with V .. I think I am lucky that I am using this time to become the person I can be and funny its what I want my H to be the person he can be ... so WOW if we can both navigate the issues that are his MLC and my reacting to it then well we maybe OK (or more than OK)

Use this time to do as V says .. it isn't about him yes keep an eye on him as it may give you a sense of peace but don't let what you hear or see unless its accurate (and I am not sure thus ever applies) become real .. remember we get a glimpse of reality - we may have A but B,C, D are missing - Don't fill in these blocks  - they wont be true or honest - just go wit the flow and learn to love yourself and if he or she cant do the same ...well what will you find attractive in a mean, angry,pitiful,l self- absorbed, selfish etc person ......... 0!

b x

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Yes, this is about your journey. Standing is not about saving the marriage. It may start in that quest, but eventually, it becomes about healing and rebuilding one person. The LBSer has to change and develop in order to becomes a stronger. You will reach a point as well where you will realize that the only way you can overcome is to build your own life as if he or she is not coming back.

That is when the journey really begins and the LBSer identifies the traits and issues that they contributed to the issues of the marriage. Where they can identify their own strengths and weaknesses that they need to address and analyze for their own self growth.

The rest is up to the MLCer and if they can find their way back. There is a shift of power as the LBSer originally concedes everything to the MLCer. That the MLCer enjoys life, has no cares or concerns, and is having their way. Then the LBSer begins to recover. The difference is that many dump the MLCer and divorce immediately. THe LBSer recovers and decides to try and win the MLCer back.

They may or may not succeed, but the ability to recover and renew put the LBSer at a better position to succeed in life. It is not easy and the path is fraught with pain and disappointment, but the end is an emotionally healthier person. (((Hugs)))

[Bewildered]

I can testify this is what happens  .. the LBS gets stronger the MLC weaker
the LBS more assured the MLCer broken and confused
the LBS likes themselves because they have looked deep into WHO they had become and throw away the bad bits the MLC er well they are not sure vacillating from this person tothat person until they start to accept they need to be the better side of themselves - all lessons of life.
my H is now more nervous around me, tries to please the kids all the time and me inadvertently and is the lost one
a true reversal of where we both where at the beginning o his MLC!

[stayed]

Not many people get to experience what we do. By that i mean the LBS standing experience. Many move on quickly, many get stuck in their pain.
But those of us who are able to do it, for however long, it brings unexpected gifts and treasures. I'm a work in progress still, but I'm enjoying the process a lot more.

Voyager, your ENTIRE post was 100% correct.  You explained all the stages so perfectly, it was like you were in my head.  I guess the MLCer's are not the only ones, who have a "script". 

I too feel I have been given a gift.  An opportunity to "remake" myself, so to say.  I am STILL a work in procress, as the tendency to "return" to how you were, is strong within each of us. 

Everybody, Ready, Bewildered, Voyager, and others, have given you the most in depth look at this process that even RCR's and HB's well written articles, had not provided.  We are all real people, living/surviving a real situation.

Everybody who has responded to this QUESTION, has chosen to make this MISSION about themselves.  They have chosen to rebuild themselves, learn and grow, survive and thrive. 

They are magnificent people.  Your choice dear.  Choose wisely, like they have.

hugs Stayed...

[Trustandlove]

Hi,  trying2bok,

I, too, am one who came here -- to RCR's site even before the forum started -- with the idea of still finding a way to fix everything.  And I'm a long-term inmate in the LBS process.....

I did all you describe, read everything, found a counsellor who was going to help me strategise my way through this, we tried to manufacture the situations that would make H think, turn back, all that. 

Along the way, I'll add, I DID get a life, work on myself, everything -- everything that is advocated here.  But I was still trying to fix it, even while detaching and letting go. 

We, too, as LBS have to go through a process, and it's a long one.  I think this site helps us navigate it better than any other I've found, and I do read a lot. 

I'm not trying to remake myself into something completely different -- I think of it as me, only better.   

Funnily enough, I was talking around this to my H last week.  He was wondering if I really had changed with regards to a certain topic, I said yes, definitely.  It's true.  It's one area where I know for sure that I have changed my behaviour.  And I won't change back; I like it a lot better this way. 

That is only one specific behaviour; there are other examples.  But the key here is that I also said that I hadn't changed the core of who I was -- and that that core was the same one with which he fell in love over 20 years ago.  I'm me, only better. 

We stand for all the reasons that stayed and Voyager and everyone else writes about so eloquently, and also because we see and know the core of the person we love -- we stand because we believe that that core is still there, despite current behaviour. 

T2b, I heard that story about Holland and Italy when my children were born, as they have a host of special needs.  At the time I remember kicking and screaming against that.  Well, it's true.  Holland is actually quite nice.

When this happened I remember thinking 'Oh, s***, don't tell me I have to go to Holland again'.  I was yet again kicking and screaming against this process.  I've watched my H cycle through his process for a long time now; I finally see how me making changes does change what he responds to, even if it can't influence his response. 

All I know is that we have to see this process through to the end, for US. 

Interestingly, I've found that a byproduct of all the work I've been doing on this for myself has an effect on how I deal with problems in my FOO, and how I deal with work issues.  All in a very positive way. 

Us being stronger can act as an attractive force to the MLCer, but ultimately it benefits us ourselves. 

xx

[stayed]

we stand because we believe that that core is still there, despite current behaviour. 

So true T&L!  The man my h was during his full blown MLC, was not anybody I knew.  I had seen some of the traits in small doses throughout our marriage, but never massed all into ONE big package.  My heart told me, he was going to REGRET what he was doing.  I was right.  I think MOST will as well, if given enough time.  The question always is, how much time does and LBS want to give it?  That is up to the individual.  So we stand until we have had ENOUGH.  Until, we are able to let go and feel we must move forward with or without our MLCer.

All I know is that we have to see this process through to the end, for US. 

I agree with this TOTALLY.  I believe it so strongly, I become extremely WORRIED when I see another LBS knee jerking.  Making MAJOR decisions before they are in a position of strength and knowledge to make.  I honestly feel, that if we PULL THE PLUG too quickly, we will simply make the situation a thousand times worse.  Ending up divorced, remarried and even more MISERABLE then we were. 

We are terribly fragile and vulnerable after something like this.  The need to somehow BOOST our self esteem can be consuming and many seem to feel WE must be attached to another person to be happy.  This is so untrue.  We need to be happy within ourselves so we do not expect anybody to MAKE us happy.  Until we totally understand that and are able to be happy by ourselves for ourselves, we have no business partnering up with another.

Interestingly, I've found that a byproduct of all the work I've been doing on this for myself has an effect on how I deal with problems in my FOO, and how I deal with work issues.  All in a very positive way. 

This was the amazing outcome for me as well T&L.  My discoveries from the journey, I was forced to take, proved to benefit ME... in almost every ASPECT of my life.  Work, home, family, community... every possible way. 

Quite honestly, as much as I hated every moment of this ugly situation, I can say, it changed my entire life, without changing the core of who I am, for the better, in every way.

hugs... Stayed...

[HeartsBlessing]

Dear Stayed,

Everybody, Ready, Bewildered, Voyager, and others, have given you the most in depth look at this process that even RCR's and HB's well written articles, had not provided.  We are all real people, living/surviving a real situation.

Each person learns at a DIFFERENT pace; and the journey for each is just as different as each person is different.

There is not only the straightforward journey; but the aspects that are faced by each person.

There is NO way to cover every possibility; there wasn't then, when I was going through, and there isn't now.

The articles provide each person who reads them a guide and a beginning to the journey for each person; that's all.

Now where each person goes with this GUIDE and BEGINNING; is up to them.

You can't possibly think that this kind of INDIVIDUAL KNOWLEDGE is to be HANDED to people on a silver platter; as this is not to be; people's comprehension and understanding is way different; and at different times, just as EACH individual person is different.

RCR and I certainly should NOT EVER be expected to carry that kind of burden for people; no one carried it for US; and it is unreasonable for anyone to expect us to do this for others.

No one did this for me, either; there were many things I had to think out for myself; and this will be true no matter how many people come through on this same type journey.

I learned BETTER and MORE when I thought these things out for myself...and the further I walked my journey; the more I figured out for ME.

Some of the aspects I learned were NOT the same as other people's;  I was an individual, too, and still am.

And unless someone asks the right questions; I can't possibly think of everything; and I should not have to, and I'm NOT supposed to think for others...it is way better when people come to these realizations on their own.

It is better learned that way, for better understanding.

It just doesn't work when people are directly handed the tools; they must learn to USE them in a way that helps them as individuals; and while some things can be taught; some things must be learned on one's own.

My job, as it were, is to get people started; what they do after that, is up to them.

Be thankful that there is at least the articles to get people started; without these; many would still be stumbling in the dark...and that's a fact, as I think back to my own humble beginnings in this trial so long ago.

Stayed, even you came in looking for something you were having trouble finding, you may have found it somewhere else, if not here...but you were looking and found it here.

This place exists because of a dream on RCR's part; and I've been here since this board started last May; because she asked me to come on board.

There's something here for everyone; and I would hope people would take what's offered; and use it for whatever they need it for.

Have a good one.