[beyondblessed]

Nah....you and I may go about stating things differently, but I do very much see things from your perspective.  Yes to them being the biggest cowards in search of someone worse than themselves.  That's why mine hooked up with Gutter Troll....the very same woman he describeD to me as as high trash, low class ow when he first started working with her. 

 And, yes, my rationality is a real thorn in this firetrucked mess this idiot is making of his life, but seriously, all I can do sit kick back and watch.  His life and choices were shoved firmly back to him when he started this $h!te with me.  He was so arrogant and out of his weak, little mind when he thought he was just going to leave me holding his bag of unwanted $h!te.  Now, he gets to reap the rewards of his choices.  My rationale suggests he pick another personality to adopt if he ever wants to be able to look anyone meaningful in the eye ever again, but hey, that view from a seat at the sanity table is going to be a very difficult climb for him to make.

[nah]

My rationale suggests he pick another personality to adopt if he ever wants to be able to look anyone meaningful in the eye ever again, but hey, that view from a seat at the sanity table is going to be a very difficult climb for him to make.

I agree.  For me, I do not want to reconcile with the Leaver BUT if I could have one thing, it would be for him to man up and become a better person for no other reason than he is the father to my children. 

[Tyks]

My h wasn't an a$$hole either. The key) word being wasn't. He was a kind hardworking lazy around the house not very attentive guy. I accepted it bc he sometimes peeked out and was attentive. I always thought I hit the jackpot bc he didn't drink and beat me up. Don't get me wrong, I hate what he has done and how he went about it.  All he had to do was tell me there were problems... mine or his... but he didn't.

Now he is in the a$$hole category. What a waste of what used to be a good man.

[beyondblessed]

Ditto, Tyks.  We accept so very little, because we expected so very little.

[stillbaffled]

So if he was looking for a change why would one choose down in the gutter instead of reaching higher to something better??

IMO, I think this is where the OP comes into play.

Now, I have never been one to blame the OP.  Yes, I believe they suck BUT I didn't marry the girl so I don't get into the "it's all her fault" game BUT.... this is for trying to understand reasons only.

These MLCers are weak.  Especially Vanishers, they are cowards to the highest degree.  I still believe something happened to my husband.  His sudden changes and choices are just too weird for plain old, he fell out of love.  I believe he lost the ability to make rational choices.  I know that's a factor to why he was fired, he lost his ability to make decisions.

So here is a weak-minded, fire trucked up guy looking to escape.  Now if he meets a rational person with high morals and he tries to run away with that person, they will reject him.  Why?  Because strong people do not hook up with married people. 

That's why they hook up with fire trucked up people.  They aren't looking for someone better than their spouses, they are looking for someone worse than themselves. 

They met, they hook up, and they give all the power to this person.  That way they no longer have to make decisions, the other person will do all the decision making for them. 

I know for a fact that the girl use to walk around the scrap yard and make decisions for the Leaver.  He handed all the power to her.  It was like Monica Lewinsky running the country. 

So of course, the OP is weak-minded and can't believe their luck they get to lead around and make decisions for, these formally good men.  Sometimes I wonder if they get off on seeing how low they can make these men go.   

No wonder these guys are hiding.  Even they probably can't believe how low they have sunk.

Mine wasn't an a$$hole either. 

But wow, Nah, you describe his actions with OW like you've been watching them both for the last 16 months!  Where have you been hiding in this tiny town to observe?!!?

[Shocked]

Wow Nah!!! I agree with SB!!! That is an amazing observation!!! Mine was a great guy too!!! That's what makes this so hard. We had them in their prime, at their best. That's what we all miss the most the men they were. I don't want to be with the manboy he is now!!! I do believe mine was always a coward. He was in sales. It was easy to sell him anything! He just the newest shiny thing that wouldn't make him look like a coward!!!

[nah]

Are vanishers bigger cowards than the average MLCer?  Is that why they hide?  I think so, I think their fears are bigger than the average MLCer. I also think they are very concerned to how we feel about them. They are far from being proud of their actions. Otherwise, they would not have a problem facing us.

As much as I feel I struggled more in the early days, I couldn't understand why other MLCers couldn't leave their spouse but mine ran like he was on fire.

What hurt the most is he seemed like he didn't care at all if I lived or died.

Now I read other threads and the clingers just seem so firetrucking abusive.

IMO, the vanishers did us a favor. Oddly in their own way they either knew we wouldn't take it very long or they couldn't live with themselves piling the crap onto us. 

Again, that's where the OP comes into play.  They will take the abuse. 

Years ago my husband chose to stop drinking. He said he did it for me. I was confused, I never asked him to stop, it was his choice. He said, he knew a woman like me wouldn't accept his behavior for long, that at any time I could choose to be with any man of my choosing, so why would I stick around an alcoholic.  He said he chose to stop before it was too late.

His vanishing was the same thing. He decided to disappear because he knew I would only take so much for so long.

If he just plain old fell out of love, I think he could sit down once in a while and at least talk to me. I mean, geez, 28 years and you can't find an hour or two out of your week to let your spouse vent??  Mr. scaredy pants couldn't face the tears. In a weird way he vanished bc he feared me.  They fear us bc there are feelings, no feelings = no fear. Plain and simple.

[BrenM]

Are vanishers bigger cowards than the average MLCer?  Is that why they hide?  I think so, I think their fears are bigger than the average MLCer. I also think they are very concerned to how we feel about them. They are far from being proud of their actions. Otherwise, they would not have a problem facing us.

Or their kids.....I totally agree with this comment Nah.  They know they have fire trucked up and run.  The couple of times my H has spoken to S20 (when he wasn't monstering) he has had tears in his eyes and full of promises which never eventuate.  They definitely are ashamed of themselves and have no idea how to fix the whole situation, so they run and hide.  Definitely gutless cowards!!!

If he just plain old fell out of love, I think he could sit down once in a while and at least talk to me. I mean, geez, 28 years and you can't find an hour or two out of your week to let your spouse vent??  Mr. scaredy pants couldn't face the tears. In a weird way he vanished bc he feared me.  They fear us bc there are feelings, no feelings = no fear. Plain and simple.

Totally agree again.  They are scared to admit their feelings.  I guess time will tell. 

[1phoenix]

I still miss him and love him.  Maybe one day the tears will stop.

[Tyks]

1P... I dont know about this. I have days where I am great and then days where I'm like wtf? It feels like the days where I am like wtf take longer than the days I'm great.

I struggle with the whole does he love me thing or does he know that i love him? Someone told me recently that he doesn't love himself and feels unworthy. I wish I could know for sure that was the case and why won't he let me help him. Whenever I do talk to him, which is rare, he just tells me he feels no connection to me. How can that be?

I am not a stander bc in my heart of hearts I firmly believe that he is never coming back and life is too short. I am not actively looking for the next love of my life either. If he were to approach me at this point I think I would agree to counselling for us both and if he didnt agree I would say no. But he is not coming back either way bc people constantly tell me how happy be is.