[HeartTattoo]

...someday life will take a turn and the fun and excitement that once was will return...I don't know in what way for the years seem to stretch out without much to anticipate or look forward to....there is still time to feel fully alive again.

I just don't think this way. Maybe I'm a pessimist at heart, although I consider myself more of a realist. Maybe I just don't have the imagination to anticipate what exciting & wonderful thing could possibly happen at this point in my life.

I try, & for the most part, succeed, to feel joy at the simple things of life--seeing the woodpecker get the suet instead of the pesky starlings, spotting the beautiful albino squirrel that nests nearby, my spring flowers, my hobbies, & the new hobby I am contemplating.

Would it be wonderful if my H wanted to renew a R with me? First of all, I don't have a shred of confidence that that will ever happen. But allowing for the possibility, maybe it could eventually be wonderful, but I believe that first it would be extremely difficult & painful (as most LBSs with returned MLCers describe).

Some wonderful things I contemplate would show me to be a not-very-nice person--if I heard somehow that H is desperately unhappy with his life & his choices (but, alas, feels trapped), that H/OW retire to their dream beach house (I'm making this all up) & it is flooded &/or blown away by climate change effects, that H's old age leaves OW a frustrated caregiver watching their (his) savings dribble away. You get the drift; my imagination works pretty good here & not in a good way.

I don't know, XYZ, I believe I have a good life with simple joys & that there really isn't anything that will ever erase the still aching scar that was inflicted upon my heart. I can't imagine what could possibly make that scar disappear.

Hugs,
HT

[HeartTattoo]

I never had a “knowing” like RCR, that her H would return to their M. But, for a very long time, I thought my H would return. Surely after the two year minimum for MLC to run its course, based on the now-rather-disputed two to seven year time span for MLC. Seven years would be unimaginable.

But at the two year mark he was pushing for the D I did not want. And two years and eight months later, two weeks after our D was final, he M’ed the OW. Then my “knowing” was that I better get on with the purging & packing I’d already begun. Get serious about moving & getting a real job. My “knowing” was that I was not going to sit in “our” house feeling lonely & rejected & waiting for something I was becoming increasingly sure would never happen.

Now, at the seven year post-BD mark, I have an inkling of another kind of “knowing”. A tickle in the back of the mind. A curiosity. An occasional what-if game. I just don’t think the story is over. It’s not a need for the story to continue, it’s more a coming-to-the-end-of-the-book kind of curiosity.

I had occasion a month ago to glimpse my Vanisher MLCer, my first sighting since our D court hearing, and oddly enough it occurred in the very same courthouse. We were both testifying in the property line dispute raised by our former neighbors when I put our marital home up for sale. The new owner’s lawyer, while prepping me, mentioned my H would also be testifying, & saying he knew there was some “sensitivity” there, had arranged the order of our appearances so it was possible that we would not cross paths.

I know many LBSs have quite a lot of contact with their MLCers for one reason or another. It even seems to be encouraged. Be “friendly & breezy”. I’ve done that when I had to—when our son was M’ed 18 months post-BD & then making absolutely inane small talk when we took the elevator together at D court.

But, in reality, the thought of interacting with my H causes my heart to stop. I don’t feel “friendly & breezy”. I still feel betrayed, devastated, heart-broken. Oh, I have moved forward in my life in every regard; I knew I had to. But I will never believe that “this was all for the best” or that “what I’ve learned about myself was worth it”. No, my H’s actions were nothing but a tragedy that destroyed a long, faithful M & two sons’ trust in their father & in their own understanding of what M is about.

The No Contact plans seemed to be working, but Nature called & I had to leave my little closed-door room. I made it around the corner to the bathroom with no sighting. But on my return I passed another witness room with the door wide open & there was my H, standing with his back turned to the door (what a weird haircut he has, I thought). I slipped by—Success, & ultimately left the courthouse with no further contact.

But my “inkling”, my “tickle” is this. With his door open did he want an “accidental” encounter? Was his ridiculous inquiry last year about 20 year old medical records some sort of a reaching out? And, I don’t mean that these were necessarily calculated actions, but unconscious ones. Will he someday consciously reach out “Can’t we be friends after all this time?” Well, the answer to that question would depend on some pretty stringent boundaries, but that’s a story for another day.

[stillbaffled]

But, in reality, the thought of interacting with my H causes my heart to stop. I don’t feel “friendly & breezy”. I still feel betrayed, devastated, heart-broken. Oh, I have moved forward in my life in every regard; I knew I had to. But I will never believe that “this was all for the best” or that “what I’ve learned about myself was worth it”. No, my H’s actions were nothing but a tragedy that destroyed a long, faithful M & two sons’ trust in their father & in their own understanding of what M is about.

Your thoughts shared in the above paragraph most certainly echo my own, HT. 

I'm a few years behind you on a timeline (just started in year 5 since BD) and I do know there will be some events in the near future where I'll be in the same venue as the MLCer and the OWifey. 

I hope the property line dispute is a settled, done deal. 

[HeartTattoo]

stillbaffled,

I'm sorry you're going to have to see/interact with your H & OWifey (I like how you did that!) We shouldn't have to bear that. I, quite luckily never had to see my H & the OW together. I only actually had to lay eyes on the OW one time while shopping. It was about one year post-BD & while I was doing much better by that point, I know I was still crazy because I actually considered confronting her in the store & making some kind of scene (so not like me in my normal self), but I was still enough of myself that I didn't do that. I just followed her for awhile (still a little crazy) & then realized how stupid even that was--How does that change anything?

I've even worked out how I would respond if I ever encountered H & OW by accident & he moved like to make introductions. The more polite version is "Oh, wait. I've got to be somewhere else" & walk off. The less polite version is to saying glaringly "Wait. We're not doing this" & walk off. The H I will acknowledge & interact with if necessary. But, the OW will never get my acknowledgement. I have a long & loving history with my H. OW is nothing to me & I owe her nothing. Not politeness. Not acknowledgement. I'm not saying that's the right way to do things & some would say this shows I've not evolved enough (done enough mirror-work, moved on enough). I say the woman who aided & assisted my H in knowingly destroying my M & my family deserves less than nothing from me.

[Tyks]

I read your post yesterday, heart tattoo, and I had no words. I felt everything you wrote and I am 3.5 years in. I think I will feel the same way you do even at 7 years. I don't think there will ever be an end to the pain and betrayal. I think we just learn to live with it.

I have often wondered how I would react when faced with the inevitable meeting of ow. So far I have been lucky and my xh has not had the gall to bring her to any of d17's events which actually surprised me. I guess that shows some sort of respect on his part or maybe she doesn't go because she knows my daughters cannot stand her. Either way, I do not believe that I would react or respond with grace. I think I would take the less polite version that you mentioned. Ow does not deserve acknowledgment, good or bad.

[Milly]

Heart, I'm almost 6 years in and feel just like you about the whole thing: "I believe I have a good life with simple joys & that there really isn't anything that will ever erase the still aching scar that was inflicted upon my heart. I can't imagine what could possibly make that scar disappear."

I have said it before somewhere, maybe on my own thread, I would rather have still been married to my H in an imperfect marriage, than have done my mirror work and discovered myself. This whole disaster has not been worth it to me. I envy those who do come away from this stronger and happy to be leaving behind someone who treated them with such little respect. I wish I could be them but it doesn't seem to be happening to me. I am trying to accept this, too. Luckily I have kids and can be grateful for them.

[OffRoad]

It's funny, my answer to "Can't we be friends after all these years" would be "No". My friends don't treat me like he treated me.

People always say "It's better to have loved and lost..." I disagree. If I'd never loved, I'd be happy in my ignorance. Was the juice worth the squeeze? That depends. If I'd known my juice would end up sour and not be enough, maybe I'd have chosen differently. (Maybe not, I have kids I love beyond measure).

The scars remain. No matter who you are. But they are only a part of us, they do not have to define us unless we let them. I will never trust like I did before, but is that a bad thing?  I don't think "Wow, how great that it took being betrayed to realize I trust too much" (that would just be freakish) but I do accept that this SUCKED big time, so I'll take any tiny amount of something I can use from it.

In my world, I still win even with scars. I have honor, integrity, loyalty.  XH renounced his. Am I "glad" or "grateful" I got these "lessons"? That's just silly. Who would rather have had a decent, non screwed up human being as a spouse from the get go, raise your hand?

[Treasur]

Who would rather have had a decent, non screwed up human being as a spouse from the get go, raise your hand?

Laughed out loud over coffee reading this 

I suspect that making some peace with these questions is an issue for all of us, HT.
And of course the reality is that we can't go back and change those big decisions. And at the time we made them based on what we knew and saw then didn't we?
I enjoyed my relationship with my h. I've never been able to regret that as a life experience. But it is also true that in many ways marrying my h turned out to be a terrible mistake, the worst mistake I have made in my life. And, even with a tough eye, I simply could not have conceived at the time that my h would become what he did or do what he did do. No one who knew him for years could have foreseen it.......how could I?

I think the trickiest bit about the idea of Post-Traumatic Growth as a concept is that it gets a bit chicken and egg.
How do we separate the Growth bits (good) from the Trauma (bad)? Or feel that the Growth stuff is big enough to counterbalance the horror of the Trauma which sometimes our brain wants to do maybe? And does linking the Growth good stuff minimise or devalue the reality of the Trauma? Or that we were forced to Grow in crisis and to survive rather than it being a more open choice by us? Or that we paid for what we have now somehow with the coin of Trauma so continually ask ourselves if it was 'worth' it, that 'juice worth the squeeze' thing as OR puts it? 

I remember about a year or so after BD, some well meaning person (idiot) saying to me that I would look back and see that God's plan would bring better things bc of my losses. One of the few times in my life I have wanted to punch someone in the face lol. I think IIRC I took a deep breath and replied icily that I had no idea what God thought I might need that was worth losing my father, mother, husband and home for.....but it would have to be pretty f**king unimaginably fantastic.....and then I walked away leaving them with their mouth open lol.

And I had a time when I hated people telling me I was so 'strong' or that I should be proud of being a 'survivor'. Yup, that made me want to punch people too 

Fwiw.....I think we have to separate the two things. Which takes a while. And part of that is about owning the Growth but not owning the Trauma. Whatever we have made after it, we made that, no matter how small or big. But the Trauma was something done to us, not by us (mostly). They are inherently different things imho. If I look at my life now, I have both Trauma residues (unchosen) and Growth goodies (chosen and usually hard-earned). That is my reality. I suspect that is how it is for most of us tbh.

[UrsaMajor]

It's funny, my answer to "Can't we be friends after all these years" would be "No". My friends don't treat me like he treated me.
<...snip...>
 That's just silly. Who would rather have had a decent, non screwed up human being as a spouse from the get go, raise your hand?

My answer is the same as yours OR.. "No, I don't have friends who have treated me the way you have treated me.... No, we are not "friends." I am your ex-husband and the father of our children."

[HeartTattoo]

I have said it before somewhere, maybe on my own thread, I would rather have still been married to my H in an imperfect marriage, than have done my mirror work and discovered myself. This whole disaster has not been worth it to me. I envy those who do come away from this stronger and happy to be leaving behind someone who treated them with such little respect. I wish I could be them but it doesn't seem to be happening to me. I am trying to accept this, too. Luckily I have kids and can be grateful for them.

Milly,

I really never understand very well the concept of Mirror Work. Sure, any single human has flaws that can be worked on. But at BD I had entered the year I would turn 60. I knew myself very well. We had been M'ed nearly 39 years. And yes, there was MLC & an affair I was completely unaware of. But I was a whole person. Our M was a team that had raised two sons, shared a profession, built a house, constructed a life. I had interests, he had interests, we had shared interests. I didn't need to "find myself".

My "work" after BD was recovering from what I consider a "nervous breakdown". My joke to people was that I never really understood what a "nervous breakdown" was, but I was pretty sure now that I had had one. Most of us lived this experience--mania, obsessive thoughts, panic, suicidal ideation, physical pain, inability to eat or sleep, sudden & drastic weight loss, etc.

My counselor gave me constant reassurance--your thoughts are normal; your feelings are normal; recovery will take as long as it takes; yes, this is grief; you are the sanest person I have had in this office; this is not on you, this is on him.

My work was to take care of myself--try to eat, try to sleep, seek support, & let myself slowly feel better. I don't think it is realistic to think we will get rid of our scars. Some LBSs I think have come to the conclusion that their M's were not healthy places for them even before BD. They seem to have put it all behind them--I'm a better person, I found myself, I've never been happier, I'm now with the love of my life, etc. Great! I'm happy for you. But that is not all of us. Some of us had very happy, if flawed, M's. Some of us had H's who were honest & honorable & faithful, who loved us before MLC grabbed them. I can't just tell myself "Well, his MLC & his infidelity & his abandonment were so disrespectful, that my goal is to wash my hands of him forever". It's not working that way for me & my counselor would say that's normal for you & you've developed skills to function in your new life.

We all have pain in life. I don't think the goal is to wash that pain out of our lives, but to learn from it if we can, recover from the initial shock of it, & go on living the best life that we can.

Hugs,
HT