[Treasur]

I can choose to look at the glass as half empty, or half full, and I choose the latter. That's all.

But if the glass was empty, it would be empty. I'm not saying you have it easy and that it doesn't hurt, but from a practical standpoint, I think the choice about what to DO would be pretty straightforward.

I appreciate that it might seem that way, or that there are less challenges about what to DO...but it really isn't so.  So, for instance, if you know your husband is suicidal and no-one else will help because they don't believe you and you don't want him to die and you know that if he will interpret your support as pressure so it might push him over the edge and will probably kill any chance of reconnection....what do you DO? Or if you accept that he has filed for a divorce you don't want and is stealing money from you as well as building huge cc debt and he then stops talking to his own L or responding to yours and won't respond to you and you can't shut accounts without his signature...what do you DO?

They are just different challenges unless you shrug your shoulders the day after BD and don't care about your H or your M. But I think if you do, like most of us, try to stand for your M and stand upright in the chaos, it's really hard to figure out what to do with so little information.

I just think that all of us share similarities in what MLC brings as well as different challenges, and that we shouldn't be judging each other or weighing one against the other. I have to tell you that, difficult as I see the decisions for folks with boomerangs, say, there are plenty of times when just the opportunity to see my H's face for an hour or know he was alive would have been worth almost anything to me.

Maybe using your metaphor, it's like trying to see the glass as half full when the glass is invisible 

PS Unusually for me, your post made me feel a bit cross and a bit sneered at, GIG. I'm sure that wasn't your intention but it came across as you saying two things. One, why are you here because the glass is empty so you should just get over it...which is a bit close to what so many of us hear from real-life friends which makes us feel unheard. And second, that there is no point standing with a vanishing spouse but better to just move on and find another one...which is a pretty harsh judgement after 20 years of marriage and a bit of a slap in the mush to anyone trying to stand with a vanisher or part-vanisher. I truly don't know, and I suspect you don't either, if vanishers reappear to reconnect. I've read the odd tale where they do because the process is working even though you can't see it...and actually we all know that our hands in it largely makes no difference.

In my situation, I have forced myself to give up hope because I've lost my whole family and disappointed hope and grief was killing me. Do I know if that's a right or wrong decision? I don't. Is it as possible that I could post in a month 'gosh what should I do, my vanisher has reappeared and wants to talk'? Yes, could happen...I just had to choose to move forward as if it won't.

I just would like to ask all of us to be gentle with each other, because we're all hurting and struggling with difficult things we never thought we'd have to face.

[nah]

and I will defend him as a wife naturally defends her husband from outside attacks.

I'm not talking to Goner here, I'm talking to those of you with vanishers who are kind of new at this....

Here's another advantage of having a vanisher as opposed to a clinger/boomerang.

Early after BD, The Leaver's best friend said to me, "well, Nah, you know The Leaver has always had a selfish side."  I actually stood up out of my chair ready to attack The Leaver's best friend in defense and then I sat back down because I realized he was right.  I spent close to thirty years defending The Leaver, because that's what a wife does but The Leaver was no longer here, he vanished.  Never, not one time, did I let someone attack The Leaver without defending him, until now.  Why did I allow it this time?  Already I was changing, yes I was changing because for the first time it was about me not "us".

Now again, this was The Leaver's best friend, he loved him like a brother (and still does) but he was feeding me some truth that I was too close to see when The Leaver was my husband.  Only now, once The Leaver was out of my face could I step back and see him with a clear lens.

Now it may seem to other LBS's who have another type of MLCer that I am attacking their spouse, well, I kind of attack all the MLCers as a group, not as an individual unless they are especially abusive, and my favorite target is the other woman (but I have yet to find a LBS that will defend an other woman) but what I'm really doing is describing my thoughts on the only journey I know,... and I'm a spouse of a vanisher and this happens to be the vanisher thread.

What spouses who don't have a vanisher doesn't understand, while I agree with Treasur 100% this is not a contest, but it is natural for a vanisher spouse to wrongly believe that we were loved less then a clinger spouse because it seems to us in the early days that our spouse never wavered, that it was easier for them.  I say Bullsh!t and then I list my reasons why, I can do this because as Goner has so eloquently point out is that I have been here for a long time.  Time is another factor for having a clearer lens.

I guess I can use my imagination OR I can recall actual events (which anybody on here that follows me will know that I often recall actual events, I might not remember where I put my keys but I can remember situations from twenty years ago like it was yesterday)...

The day after BD I said to The Leaver, "Are you sure this is what you want?  You know if I go out there it will take me ten minutes to replace you"

He put his head down and slowly shook his head "yes", he whispered barely audible, "I can't imagine you with anyone else"

Looking back, I know I should have stepped back, took a breath, and worked on myself.  That would have been the correct way to heal.  Instead I went out and Firetrucked every not married guy I could find that I knew would drive The Leaver insane with jealousy. 

My first of many mistakes over the first two years.

Or that's their way of dealing with guilt? Or avoiding looking at reality? Or fear of our reaction? Or a way to exercise control? Or hidden anger? Or....No way to know, I think. We make a best guess based on what we see and know of our spouse, but maybe we can't know until further down the road.

Yes, all of these, but from my husband, my journey, I know he ran because he knew (right or wrong) that I would eventually challenge him and throw in his face that I could do exactly what he was doing.... and more.  You see, at the time, he was throwing on my shoulders HIS insecurities and I was taking it.  He had us BOTH believing that I was old, fat and worthless and he was too good to be with a used up old hag like me.  I believe, he knew deep down, that once released I would rise.... and I did.  He knew that he would lose the contest that HE created.  Sure, it was a warped kind of respect, but all of this is a warped situation.

Now am I here saying I'm better than anyone else?  Far from it.  If anything I often describe my insecurities, my journey of self-destruction, my boatload of mistakes.  I can't count how many times on here I have written, "this was not the best thing to do, but it's what I did",.... I strip down and let everyone see my raw emotions and stupid decisions so they can see they are not alone. 

I'm here, and I'm not leaving even though through the years I have been questioned many times why I'm still here because, again I have a very good situational memory, and I remember that pain like it was yesterday.

[ChrissYAH]

Goner your husband hasn't vanished so why are u here? to discourage the rest of us?

[Treasur]

Never, not one time, did I let someone attack The Leaver without defending him, until now.  Why did I allow it this time?  Already I was changing, yes I was changing because for the first time it was about me not "us".
I agree with that, nah. I did the same in the first few months when we had some contact and my H was still asking me to not give up on him or us. Distance does allow you to step back a bit and you're forced to focus on 'me'. I have gulped when I have seen the pain and effort of people trying hard to detach with a crazy spouse rollercoaster right in their face. And I have felt grateful that my memory does not include a long list of '100 reasons why your H thinks you're s$it' (whilst I'm sure my H has thought these things and said them to other people perhaps  )


What spouses who don't have a vanisher doesn't understand, while I agree with Treasur 100% this is not a contest, but it is natural for a vanisher spouse to wrongly believe that we were loved less then a clinger spouse because it seems to us in the early days that our spouse never wavered, that it was easier for them.  I say Bullsh!t and then I list my reasons why, I can do this because as Goner has so eloquently point out is that I have been here for a long time.  Time is another factor for having a clearer lens.
I did feel this, I think, and maybe that's why Goner's comments stung a bit. Like you, with time, I don't believe that is true. I think my H's vanishing is much more about his coping strategy than a reflection of his love for me. Actually, in a weird way, the more I see him not respond calmly and 'normally' after so long, the more it tells me that this isn't easy or straightforward for him...Silence can be surprisingly loud!


Looking back, I know I should have stepped back, took a breath, and worked on myself.  That would have been the correct way to heal.  Instead I went out and Firetrucked every not married guy I could find that I knew would drive The Leaver insane with jealousy. 

My first of many mistakes over the first two years.
Join the gang...I've made a million mistakes!

Now am I here saying I'm better than anyone else?  Far from it.  If anything I often describe my insecurities, my journey of self-destruction, my boatload of mistakes.  I can't count how many times on here I have written, "this was not the best thing to do, but it's what I did",.... I strip down and let everyone see my raw emotions and stupid decisions so they can see they are not alone. 

I'm here, and I'm not leaving even though through the years I have been questioned many times why I'm still here because, again I have a very good situational memory, and I remember that pain like it was yesterday.
Same for me. I share my thoughts and feelings to try to figure out what they actually are, and what to do with them. Sometimes I look for hope and wonder if I should stand. Sometimes I just look for a hug or encouragement to keep going. Sometimes I read things that make me question myself or keep my eye on my own healing. I remember bits of the pain, a few bits I've probably blanked out but a trigger can make them reappear in a heartbeat.

[nah]

Treasur, you are a huge asset to this site and I hope you stick around for a long time.

You just might be our next Thunder (my all-time favorite  )

Funny how so many will question those of us that have been here for a long time and then others will wonder where are all the reconciled marriages.  None of this is quick or easy.

I still will get a trigger once in a while but they vanish almost as quickly as my husband.

See what I did there?   

[Thunder]

Thank you nah (and Shocked & Chriss), you are seriously too kind.

I do read this thread, but don't often comment.  I read a lot of threads because it helps me, as a Mentor, to try to understand all these MLCer's, but I also find this one particularly interesting. 

I love how you guys have found such camaraderie here.  It's a joy to see.
Maybe I should have started a thread for Wallower's.  ha ha   

I just wanted to say, not having a Vanisher, I don't understand it and I have no clue how I would have reacted or what I would do.

There were times when I thought...well maybe a Vanisher is better, at least with a Vanisher you are forced to heal and let go, because you are given no other choice.  Possible you heal faster.
Clinger's can suck the life out of you and it's harder to even start to heal because their always in your face.

But after reading what everyone has been saying I no longer think that's true (about LBS's w/Vanisher's).  Yes, you may be about to get on with your life faster, but to me it would be much harder to have someone vanish from your life leaving you with 1.000 questions. 
Walking away like that is such a cowardly way to leave someone and I'm sure it, not only makes the confusion worse, but it also hurts like h!ll.   

I really feel you ladies are all Gladiators.  Some of the strongest women on here.   

Btw, YES, treasur, is a TREASURE for sure!!   

[Treasur]

I have a girl crush on Thunder too  and thank you, Thunder xxx

And I did see what you did, nah 

[Strongcurrent]

Well this discussion has got very lively ....
Without a doubt there is a place for those of us with vanishers, like Treasur so eloquently said we all have our challenges to face, and being a part of this forum is that we can discuss openly these issues.

This forum doesn't exist for those that only reconcile with their spouses, if so there would be only a handful of members - we all know the lack of purple icons on this board.

After BD for the first 6 months my ExH was a clinger - he would come home every 2-3 days, text and phone and we even went away together then bang - he skipped the country to hookup with Ms Memphis newly divorced whom he meet on line and myself and the children were left in the wake.

I do not wish to reconcile with my ExH but I am here trying to figure out or calm my brain as to what actually happened to my life and my future.  Just because my ExH has vanished my glass is not half empty but infact is half full waiting for me to replenish it to the brim.

SCx

[Not Applicable]

Now it may seem to other LBS's who have another type of MLCer that I am attacking their spouse, well, I kind of attack all the MLCers as a group, not as an individual unless they are especially abusive, and my favorite target is the other woman (but I have yet to find a LBS that will defend an other woman)

You said:

Here's a few examples of what I have read over the years....

One heard her spouse having sex upstairs with the other woman,their small children in the house.
One found her MLCer packing to go camping with the ow, while she had a medical issue, he literally stepped over her to leave.
One would everyday, leave to see the other woman, then come home and sleep on the sofa.
Many say they are over "her", sleep with the wife and then the wife finds a message.
Have friends, family, your children see him with you, and then her, and then you, and then her....

Now, none of those are taken from anything I have posted here but at least one of them I recognize exactly who is being described, but indeed you were NOT talking generally here and even you admit you don't always refrain from talking generally, from your exceptions you seem to be painting this person's spouse and all other spouses referred to in this list as "particularly abusive," which is you passing judgment on someone else's spouse.

I don't have an issue with those who vanishers as a general group. None of us deserve that happened to us, but there's stuff I hold back on posting publicly here because I know I would almost certainly find my husband in your specific list of "especially abusive" MLCers simply because it doesn't jive with what you think is acceptable.

[Treasur]

Gig, you seem to be unhappy about something but I'm not sure what exactly? Something around blaming or attacking the behaviours of MLC spouses and the extent to which nah, or anyone else here, judges those behaviours as abusive? Say a little more to help us understand if I've misinterpreted that?

On the issue of abuse, and attacking/defending our spouses...I've had a couple of struggles with that. There are things my STBXH has done which I know my pre-BD H would be horrified by. I've been horrified by them and struggled to accept that some dark part of my H is even capable of it...but they are real facts. There are things I have chosen not to share IRL with people who know us because...IDK...they are so awful that I don't want to speak them out loud maybe. Or I feel like others will never forgive or accept what I can? Not sure.

But I also had to push myself hard to accept they were real, he had done these things. He may need to hide from them, but I really feel for myself that hiding from them isn't healthy. But they hurt to look at. I don't want to think of my H as an abusive man, or myself as an abused woman...but some of the extreme STBXH behaviours ARE abusive and clearly about fear, control and power. And to protect myself, I've had to find the courage to see them for what they are.

Do I believe my H is a bad man? No, I don't. Do I believe his mental health has lead him to do bad, abusive things intentionally? Sometimes, yes. And I'm pretty sure that he will never recover unless he reaches a point where he can accept that too, but I can't imagine how hard that would be to do. I just feel that honouring my H as a flawed human being is about accepting all of him, and that if a day ever comes when I have a supporting role in his recovery, my ability to love him and not deny the abusive behaviour is important and real. No different really from accepting that I am a good sane person who has occasionally done some nutty things - some of which have hurt other people - as I have struggled with my own mental health.