Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Anon on October 23, 2019, 08:01:20 AM
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For the most part I believe my spouse is having a MLC. It explains a lot about why my happy life was blown up. The overnight abandonment, presence of the AP, change in appearance, focus on fitness, etc.
But,,, there is still a nagging doubt it’s really MLC. In my case the doubt comes from this: He’s too nice, too polite, very careful not to hurt me any more, too helpful, and too willing to help if I ask. Basically, I have not seen MONSTER. It’s almost a given that MLCers monster, isn’t it? His daughter sees monster occasionally I believe. Possibly the ow but I doubt it.
There are other reasons that I think it might not be MLC but the lack of monster is the biggest reason. I think there are more MLC indicators than not, but the lack of monster over 2.5 years since BD has me wondering.
Are you wondering in your own situation?
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I am not familiar with your story to give you an opinion one way or the other.
I know I am not alone though in thinking there are quite a few people on this forum who are not dealing with MLCers based on the descriptions they have given.
But if you go re-read the homepage for this web site, with all the implied outcomes it suggests of an MLC you will see why someone who does not want to lose their spouse would latch on to the idea it is MLC, whether their particular situation points to it or not. This site is selling the idea that MLC is something temporary and you can get your spouse back. What's not to like about that if you don't want your marriage to end? Threads like Shock Sis' thread are selling this fantasy big time and there are a lot of people who will defend it blindly, even though they have no evidence that their spouses are interested in coming back at this time.
Unfortunately, you can't tell someone they aren't dealing with an MLCer without upsetting them on this forum because if they aren't an MLCer, then maybe the problem is with the marriage, or them, or their spouse simply is done. No one wants to hear that.
I think if you want a more objective analysis of your situation, post your story along with a poll with 3 options-it's MLC, it's not MLC, not sure. That way you can gauge the collective wisdom of the forum and get others' honest opinions. I think that would be the best way to do it. In fact, I think someone did do that a while back and I think every vote was for it being MLC.
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Hi anon
I often wonder if my ex is in mlc or if he just fell in love with someone else and she just happens to be the love of his life. Perhaps it’s as simple as “love” and I am complicating matters and making excuses by describing his behaviour as an mlc.
In saying that I saw monster. There was no physical abuse but definitely emotional and psychological abuse to both myself and my then 2 year old daughter. My nanny also saw the emotional abuse to our daughter. He was supposed to take care of her but instead would fly to a different country to spend weekends with his “friends”. (Girlfriend). My nanny saw him close the door on her while she is crying to be be let into the room. He turned narcissistic. He was always selfish but not to the degree of abandoning his longed for daughter. He moved countries to be with his girlfriend and just abandoned us.
So his personality completely flipped. He has become someone who he despises. But once again this woman could be the love of his life and his daughter and I are in the way.
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My Wife displays all the indicators of a crisis, except for Monster. I know based on her history that there is more than simply MLC going on with her though.
Having said that, pre-Drop she did display anger and frustration toward me. No “monster” though. At times after drop she was outwardly caring and considerate and behind my back telling people she feared for her life. This would occur within the same hour. I stayed clear of her and these days she blames her terror on her therapist. Who knows?
The hardest part of this journey was finding my own place of understanding as to what is going on with her. Questioning is part of all this, but the uncertainty can be hindering to our progress.
I know what you are feeling and in time I am sure you will come to your own solid understanding and place of calm.
Ultimately it really is up to each of us to decide what is going on with our loved ones.
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Think most of us wonder at times, Anon.
For me, after a while, the more useful question behind the question was why I wanted to know for sure.
In my case, I wasn't standing so not looking for the reasssurance that NYM describes although I understand why others might.
I think mostly it was about two questions, both about my own sense of sanity lol. Did I imagine the very different person I shared my life with for so many years? And is/was some of what happened no matter what I did truly as surreal and abnormal as it felt at the time?
Bit by bit, I found a way to mostly answer those questions well enough to make peace with it. To this day, I don't know exactly how to label it tbh.. and.my xh was diagnosed with depression/OCD and under psychiatric care, no idea if that was right either as a diagnosis as in many ways he got more bonkers not less after months of therapy &a medication....so I accept that something I call WIW (whatever it was) happened to my then h and his solution was to erase his old life and make a new one. With maximum destruction and a sense of underpinning rage and a missing empathy chip lol. The exact nature or causes of the WIW is probably more relevant to his life now than to mine. Jmo.
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I know for a fact there is SOMETHING seriously wrong with Beast.
Is it MLC exactly? Hard to say. Most likely he is a Narc or just a nut job. ::)
Kinda doesn't matter to much what the label is at this point other than knowing how to cope with our interactions.
I think the more important thing is to really look inside yourself and see how you feel about it all.
How did you feel in the lead up to BD, during BD, since BD?
How do you feel about the imaginary scenario of him coming back? Does it fill you with joy or dread?
If he never comes back what is it that you want? If you could pick the ideal man what would he be like?
If your MLCer were to come back semi healed could he be any of those things?
At the end of the day this whole $h!tee storm is as much about us as it is them. We get to really look at ourselves, our behaviours, and what we want.
The label we put on it hardly matters, but I do think sometimes we hide behind the labels to not look at the tough questions.
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I believe it is 100% natural to question what exactly this is . I would almost guarantee every single person has wondered the exact same thing, I certainly know that I did. It would certainly be great if there was a blood test for all that ails them and then we would know. But we certainly would never get them to the doctor anyway. Even now, from time to time I question this exact thing ...did he really have a MLC or just a fling before the old age home ? When I read about MLC and clearly see my husband ….I feel "better", for all the reasons NYM mentioned. Of all odd things , the very 1st therapist we saw told me flat out and straight up...you husband is having an identity crisis . At the time, I had to google what the hell that even meant. My husband has been in therapy for near 5 years to deal with his "crisis" and his catastrophic childhood issues. My husband totally believes and states that he had a MLC. So I KNOW that he had a mlc ( correction: he is STILL in some sort of unrest internally) and still I have moments of doubt. We are "normal" I think. We just need confirmation as to exactly WHAT happened ...it is that traumatic.
I had monster , oh indeed I had monster . Sometimes a firetruck you monster and other times a shocked monster who would say " what the hell is wrong with me ?" He was nasty, cruel and selfish beyond any description. I do not believe that they ALL monster ..some have more internal control perhaps. My husband occasionally apologized after monster because he did "not want to hurt me ". But , he sure did.
I agree 100% that there are some members on HS that seems spouse is not in MLC. I have seen that and thought that many times. I do not think your husband could have 9 out of 10 indicators ..but because he does not "monster" you do not believe it is MLC. Utter and complete vanishers do not monster either ...that we can see. They just disappear. I do not believe there is anyway to be 100% positively sure ...but there certainly are clear indications. I believe my husband had a MLC 99.999%.
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I always found this a pretty useful list http://whatismidlifecrisis.blogspot.com/2013/07/signs-of-depression-in-mlc.html
It's funny but I think we must all have some kind of mental checklist where we read a post and go yup....or probably...or hmmm doesn't sound like it. Well at least about others posts lol. I wonder what is on our mental lists? For instance, whilst I respected that Anjae always said she had an MLC, how she described it didn't sound like my picture of an MLC but more like a kind of situational depression. Why? And with the caveat that this is just based on the little she has said about it, I never picked up either that sense of simmering rage or staggering kind of really extreme self-centredness that is so strange to see in an adult and which makes dealing with them rationally feel so WTF.
I had a mostly silent vanisher Anon so the Monster I experienced was more covert and passive....but I could still feel the rage or need for control underneath often if that makes sense. Perhaps we get the kind of Monster they think will hurt or control us most? I got ghosting and gaslighting and a kind of secret war of theft and secrets that I didn't find out about factually for well over a year....for my character, and given what else was happening, I suspect being ignored and unheard was the most damaging thing Monster could do both emotionally and practically. Monster spew in my face probably would have seemed so nonsensical that it would have been less damaging to me....ha ha, the gift of a big ego lol.
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Hi Anon,
Really understandable question. During our divorce proceedings in my state. We had to attend (separately) a day long co-parenting class to prepare for life with children after D. A whole section of that class was devoted to the stages of D - the pre- stages at home, separation and ultimately D. There was a huge disconnect it what my kids and I were experiencing versus a “typical” divorce. MLC seems to come out of the blue and slams you into complete shock and disbelief.
Here’s some questions I would ask you..
We’re you shocked or seriously surprised at bomb drop?
Did you have some issues in your marriage but they were “typical” relationship woes and didn’t rise to the level where you thought your marriage was at risk?
Did your spouse seem to change almost overnight?
Is your spouse behaving in a way that seems at odds to his value system?
Does your spouse seem to be confused or send you mixed or contradictory messages?
Has your spouse become forgetful?
Did other relationships change with pets, family, friends, etc?
Has your spouse rewritten history? Are even the “good years” now glossed over?
Is your spouse critical of things you do or say? Where before he may have loved these traits/quirks?
I don’t think your spouse has to be in monster to be in MLC. Lots of people split up, get divorced etc - IMO, your gut and intuition will tell you if this is “normal” or something different, like MLC, driving this behavior.
Does it make a difference? Maybe it does. In MLC if a person makes it through the tunnel, they MAY want to return and you MAY want to be open to that, so you choose to live your life as if they are never returning but remain open to the possibility. For other people, if they believe the door is shut or very unlikely for a future relationship, then they may choose to just shut the door themselves.
Either way, you get to choose the right path for yourself.
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Treasure, I think that’s the best, most comprehensive list available on-line. Thanks for reminding.
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Anon,
Not all MLCer's are the same. You could have been describing my XH to T, so I get your confusion.
Never Monstered, was always kind, never mean, polite, no ow, divorce done friendly, the whole shebang.
I doubted for a long time he was not in a MLC. He just didn't fit what I was reading here. Maybe he really did just fall out of love with me.
UNTIL the day he rewrote history. I can't tell you how shocked I was, he not only talked about something he claimed I said (which I never would, even in anger), but he put people in it that weren't there.
When I said what I said, it was no way near how he said I said it, but we were at home sitting on the couch, just the two of us. Nope, we were in the kitchen and so and so was there and they were shocked you would say that too by the look on their face. :o
There was no convincing him but I thought, ok this IS a MLC. That did not happen.
Also a few weeks after BD I made reference to something he said the night of BD, he immediately looked horrified and said.."I never said that, I would never say something like that!"
But he did. ;D
I don't think SS sells any fantasy, but I do agree there probably are people on here who's spouse's are not in MLC. Most are, but I wouldn't think all. Sometimes it's just easier to believe that, than that their spouse just walked away. There are some marriages where one or the other really wasn't happy, for what ever reason.
I think you will just know in hindsight.
Still I believe a lot of the advice on here is good for either a walk away spouse, or a Midlifer.
Protect your finances, detach, live your life 'as if" they are not coming back and be kind to yourself. Concentrate on you and make your life the best you can. Let them go.
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That is a good list that Treasur posted.
I would also add that I think MLC is triggered by childhood issues, and in the absence of such issues, it's not MLC. I know some don't agree with this. But for me that is an essential part of what I believe is an illness. Someone else may appear to be in MLC, but without that underlying cause/trigger, it simply can't be the same thing. Every illness has causes and symptoms. You can't have one without the other.
As for monster, I would just point out that the spouse is not necessarily the (only) target of Monster. The OP, family members, coworkers, friends can also be subject to monster behavior. So just because you don't see it doesn't mean he isn't exhibiting it to someone.
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Treasure, I think that’s the best, most comprehensive list available on-line. Thanks for reminding.
It is comprehensive. It also pretty much a list which encapsulates behaviours expected in and springing from, at best, a very avoidant attachment style and at the more extreme end, a narcissistic personality adaptation.
Monster is about projection and projective identification, unconscious means of regulating self esteem and avoiding shame.
There isn’t a boundaried condition called mlc, surely? I’d say anyone who leaves a long marriage or a marriage with children when their spouse is not in agreement is in crisis and under stress.
The thing that we struggle so hard with I think is that their actions and our preoccupation with them derail us from being in control our own lives. A lot of the things Treasur writes, especially recently, are gratefully received by us all. And she focuses us not on whether it’s mlc but what feel about and what we are going to do about behaviour that doesn’t belong in an equal partnership. That’s what we find so hard but it’s what she is so clear sighted about.
They are all in crisis. We are almost all thrown into Crisis too.
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Treasur - It's a good list and it definitely bears repeated readings. Additionally, I can say it applies to female MLC as well. My W ticks almost every box on there, and that's not all from just my observation. She's verbalized many of those qualities directly to me. They KNOW what they are going through in many cases. I just think they feel unable to stop it.
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Well said Nerissa
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I would also add that I think MLC is triggered by childhood issues,
I would agree with this. A friend who is a mental health specialist said pretty much everyone referred to her has a problem with its roots in attachment issues. I asked my T if it was that straightforward and she agreed in that just about every problem we have in life is relational and our relational behaviours are driven by attachment styles. The spouse is the primary attachment figure where the mother once performed that role.
A therapist who is a professor at UCLA school of medicine has suggested that affairs are a function of insecure childhood attachment. My simplistic interpretation is that the extreme difficulty of breaking attachments but the opposing difficulty of maintaining a marriage where attachment issues are affecting the unconscious dynamics is what causes the monstering and push pull behaviours.
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The 1st time I saw that list was on my husbands desk under a pile of papers. He obviously printed it and kept it. I just left it where I found it.
They are all in crisis. We are almost all thrown into Crisis too.
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This is the truest fact . I am in crisis...there is no question . Is it MLC ? I have no idea. This is indeed 1 of the most impossible situations ...when men in MLC return too early . Time is a gift ..not that I saw that at the time. I had NO time to do my own work, processing, healing etc. Trying to rebuild or reconnect after such a shock is extremely difficult when you are circling around your own black hole. His crisis and all his actions absolutely spun me into my own life altering critical mess. Trying to "heal" together ? Just a sh#t storm. Time is an absolute gift and if I had it to do again? I never would have let him return as quickly as I did.
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Oh I've had plenty of doubt myself. I have had bigtime MONSTER. Pretty nasty stuff.
I thought it was Bipolar for the longest time and my IC kept shooting that down. I was on this Narcissism track for awhile because she put me on that trail. Recently this Summer I was thinking borderline personality disorder.
I've now dismissed them all. There are elements of every disorder found in MLC. My IC always said identity crisis.
I'm back to MLC now myself. She is a clinically depressed woman (8yrs treated) who is having a crisis. I went to her appointments for years and talked to her IC.
Clinical depression, anxiety, panic attacks. That's all we ever discussed. Nothing more.
She definitely is having some type of crisis. That is for sure.
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This is the truest fact . I am in crisis...there is no question . Is it MLC ? I have no idea. This is indeed 1 of the most impossible situations ...when men in MLC return too early . Time is a gift ..not that I saw that at the time. I had NO time to do my own work, processing, healing etc. Trying to rebuild or reconnect after such a shock is extremely difficult when you are circling around your own black hole. His crisis and all his actions absolutely spun me into my own life altering critical mess. Trying to "heal" together ? Just a sh#t storm. Time is an absolute gift and if I had it to do again? I never would have let him return as quickly as I did.
This is interesting. Someone wrote on another thread that MLC is a choice and the MLCer could choose to not have the MLC. I was considering starting a Discussion Thread asking whether anyone knew of anyone who seemed to have started down the road to an MLC and then decided to stop. I've never heard of it happening and I don't believe it's possible. The closest I can come to that is a few situations like Barbie's where the MLCer returns early and it seems like it's always extremely difficult when the MLCer returns and they aren't "fully baked".
Anon, my wife's behavior is similar to your husbands. I have no doubt that she's going through what would be considered an MLC on here. I also agree with NYM and Nerissa about MLC being triggered by childhood wounding but I don't think we can use that as an indicator because I believe the wounding isn't always overt and noticeable.
I believe the monstering is a stress response. Fight-flight stress responses fall onto a continuum that runs from fight to fawn and another that runs from flight to freeze. I think an MLCer's location on these continuums determines the type and level of monstering. My wife leans more towards fawning than fighting and more toward flight than freezing so she moved out but tries to stay on my good side. I also lean more toward fawning but I'm strongly orientated towards freezing so I was a civil wallower.
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I agree with both NYM and Nerissa about FOO/attachment issues plus for some maybe early life trauma. Perfect storm of unresolved FOO/trauma + events + poor coping skills + depression + weak sense of self...the bit that seems very MLCish is the desire to run/escape in such an extreme way...so as Nerissa says morevof a melting pot than a strict boundary? Jmo. Someone recent,y said, maybe Alvin, that perhaps called it MLC isn't very helpful....it's a kind of shorthand...but maybe it would be more accurate to call it an existential or identity crisis. Or the old fashioned RL word 'breakdown' even. As Watcher says, lots of behaviour comes out that looks like the traits of other label doesn't it?
And yes most LBS experience their own crisis in reaction....but maybe different flavours bc we have different contributing components?
Some of the 'mlc' behaviours do seem to happen with limerent exit affairs from what i' e read. The difference seems to be in how extreme some of the changes can be and how long and deep the crisis is maybe.
And some of the weird things as Thunder describes. I still remember when my then h did not recognise himself in a photo of us on my desk. He was being genuine; he really didn't. In fact he thought it was some unknown man with me instead of a laughing picture of us on our first vacation which had been on my desk for years. I knew that wasn't normal....and as MBIB said it never felt at least initially when I saw more of my then h's behaviour that he had woken up and chosen to have s crisis/breakdown. Perhaps at times he had some choice over how he dealt with it, just like I did when I had PTSD. Or not lol.
I honestly think labels can serve us and also not. Having the label of PTSD helped me find the right kind of treatment for instance, so useful. But sometimes trusting our own instinct and judgment about what feels normal or not, ok or not, is better imho....so we can call it Fish if that works for us! In fact I called PTSD Lucy the Lizard for several months - as far as I know not yet in the DSM lol. Although perhaps the DSM would be more fun with animal cartoons now I think about it :)
So I think what we're saying Anon is that working out WHY you want to feel sure when you feel detached enough to look at it with more of a helicopter view will allow you to reach the conclusion that FEELS right to you and serves you best. What we do to survive and rebuild is often much the same.
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This is interesting. Someone wrote on another thread that MLC is a choice and the MLCer could choose to not have the MLC.
I doubt they can choose their feelings. They can choose what to do with those feelings. By definition, they aren’t especially self aware. Those that develop awareness have a shorter crisis. Virtually none, as far as I can see, find a really good therapist because they are too busy ‘living in the moment’ and doing what feels right at the time. It’s called ‘ego syntonic ‘ behaviour because it feels good. To get understanding and feel at fault and to change is jolly tough. That would be ‘ego dystonic’. If most of them were that emotionally mature they wouldn’t wreak this destruction.
And knowingly or not, without doing anything ‘wrong’ we are a part of the dynamic.
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I saw some discussion about detachment issues on another thread and it was all very foreign to me and didn't make much sense because it is not something I have ever seen in m H. My H simply does not have attachment issues. His childhood issues have nothing to do with attachment whatsoever. It's about control and physical abuse. However, I can see how certain childhood traumas would cause some people to have attachment issues, especially if they experienced some kind of loss or abandonment. I just wanted to say that I think that the childhood issues should be so narrowly defined to one type of issue.
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I think there is a lot of overlap in the ‘symptoms’ of infidelity and MLC - Emotional distancing from the spouse, kids, friends and FOO; angry and being critical toward the spouse; overt attention to physical appearance; spending money like water, etc. In my opinion, one of the major differences between a garden variety walk-away spouse and MLC is the presence of childhood/teenage issues. Of course, this, too, can be ‘found’ if LBS tries hard enough (you will see what you want to see), considering that not many people can claim a perfect childhood with perfect parents.
I agree that not all situations on HS are MLC related and it could be a person having an affair and moving on, or taking stock at midlife and deciding that they want something different. It is understandable that LBS prefers MLC explanation, because, then, there is some chance that their spouses will come back, so we read. It may also partly explain what I see as some LBSs projecting their spouses on to ShockSis and taking it personally if she is challenged. She said she always loved her H deep down and that she wanted to get back with him. Probing questions, observations and opinions presented to ShockSis which are not ‘thank you’s and praises, perhaps challenge LBS’s own dream that his/her spouses really loves them deep down and will want to come back to them eventually? One needs to believe her spouse is in MLC in order to validate this ‘dream’ and not think of oneself as gone cuckoo.
I think that it’s not only LBSs who want to believe their spouses are in MLC. It’s possible that the errant spouse may latch onto the idea of MLC as a fog to obscure one's infidelity. You know, a tailor-made ‘reason’ why they behaved dishonourably to escape one’s full accountability.
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I also agree with NYM and Nerissa about MLC being triggered by childhood wounding but I don't think we can use that as an indicator because I believe the wounding isn't always overt and noticeable.
I agree it may not always be overt and noticeable. But I would say the proportion of people on here who have cited it as a factor in their spouse's MLC is so high that I think that the ones who haven't mentioned it simply are the minority where it isn't overt and noticeable, but it is likely still there.
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She said she always loved her H deep down and that she wanted to get back with him.
All quite romantic and dreamy when it isn't a reality. I think if she actually did get back together with him the story would not be so nice and neat and packaged with a red heart on top. There'd be another woman and her two children divorced and dumped and probably a lot of other issues that would need to be dealt with. No one will tell you reconnection and reconciliation are easy or pleasant except for someone who isn't reconnecting or reconciling. Again, the lack of actual reconnection or reconciliation makes it all more like a fantasy that is very palatable to some. But there also seems to be a disconnect here because unlike SS's followers, SS's XH has moved on, divorced her and married someone else. I'm not sure how her story could be a model for them because they have nothing in common with the LBS in this case.
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Barbie - thank you for sharing that, having your uncooked MLCer return too soon could be all kinds of crazy making. I can’t even imagine living with my spouse ATM, with all the gaslighting, monster, lies etc.
Him being a close contacter is difficult enough. Heartsblessing talks a lot about the return/reconciliation being more difficult than replay - and maybe that’s true for many if not all. None of it is easy, and like you, I am in my own crisis now, born from the depths of his. However, I recognize it and am actively working on identifying my issues, creating space for health and healing and taking a constructive approach without blaming him, or anyone else, for my current emotional well being.
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When I said what I said, it was no way near how he said I said it, but we were at home sitting on the couch, just the two of us. Nope, we were in the kitchen and so and so was there and they were shocked you would say that too by the look on their face. :o
There was no convincing him but I thought, ok this IS a MLC. That did not happen.
Also a few weeks after BD I made reference to something he said the night of BD, he immediately looked horrified and said.."I never said that, I would never say something like that!"
But he did. ;D
That made me laugh so hard....... YES.... the completely missing and false memories..... that is SUCH a trip.
Or even weirder, when the memories come back completely unannounced and they can't remember not remembering. ;D
I mean, when you can't remember, you can't remember.... but when you can remember but can't remember not remembering......
;)
-SS
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I saw some discussion about detachment issues on another thread and it was all very foreign to me and didn't make much sense because it is not something I have ever seen in m H. My H simply does not have attachment issues. His childhood issues have nothing to do with attachment whatsoever. It's about control and physical abuse. However, I can see how certain childhood traumas would cause some people to have attachment issues, especially if they experienced some kind of loss or abandonment. I just wanted to say that I think that the childhood issues should be so narrowly defined to one type of issue.
It’s not a narrow field. Everyone of us has an attachment style. Everyone has specific traits in relating to others. It’s called attachment , not detachment. It originates with our mothers. It’s probably the biggest area of current research in mental health. It involves right brain development. The right brain is the place where all emotion resides.
It began in the 1950s when John Bowlby argued that humans biggest drive was not, as Freud posited, sex, but attachment to others. It means survival. We are social creatures and know ourselves only in relationship to others. Developments in neuroscience mean that the Physical aspects of the brain may be mapped while babies/mothers are interacting. The way our mothers regulate our emotions for us actually creates the structure of our brain. It links with much psychoanalytical theory - the theory of mother as ‘container’ - receiving our feelings and feeding them back to us in a way that calms and holds us. It’s compelling. I don’t mean simple internet articles, but the real science. The UK govt is rolling out an expensive investment in school Based therapists trained by people with psychoanalytical/attachment based training upon the research and advice of Professor Peter Fonagy. In the US it’s Alan Schore. Also Daniel Stern. Dan Siegel. Stephen Porges.
I’m a member of a charity here - an infant /parent project which helps new parents learn these things so their attachment is as secure as possible. It was set up by Sue Gerhardt, author of ‘why Love Matters’. I don’t do anything for the charity but I attend lectures by specialist child psychiatrists from universities on these issues and their centrality to secure emotional development. Secure attachment and untraumatised babies would save a fortune in social costs.
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Actually there are many articles written about the cause of a Midlife Crisis.
If you Google "causes of a Midlife Crisis?" you will get many different theories.
The causes can be more than just a bad childhood.
Here just one example of one I read:
https://www.liveabout.com/what-is-a-midlife-crisis-1102907
I found the Avoidant Personality part interesting, since so many of us have reported our MLCer's display this type of personality.
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I think that the word ‘cause’ can be a misnomer. I would regard many of them as the ‘catalyst’, not the root cause. Empty nest, redundancy, mounting debt, serious health problems and death of a loved one, a friend or a colleague. Any of these can be the straw that broke camel’s back but not the main burden. Just my opinion. :)
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The causes can be more than just a bad childhood.
I’m sorry to labour a point but it doesn’t need to be a bad childhood. Just one with misattunment from caregivers. Or caregivers who valu things or self over relationship. Or suffering depression or too many children or sickness among family members or death. Just life in fact.
But everything that happens to us as infants shapes our brains and the way we handle our emotions and other people. Therefore what we learn and experience influences our future. Everyone develops and has transition and changes throughout life. Everyone encounters trouble. The destruction depends upon the way we deal with these things and the way we deal with them (since problems involve people) depends upon our view of relationships and our relational habits and style.
The way we handle debt or job loss or bereavement is learned very early. Not because babies learn about debt but they absorb the way difficult and positive emotions are experienced and processed first by motherr then father and others. Right brain to right brain communication is non verbal and unconscious. And we learn it first from our mothers. And we use it all the time in social
Situations.
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I sure don't know, Acorn. That could be true.
I guess we all have our opinions on what caused our spouse to go into a crisis.
I suppose because there are no hard, factual, or medical reason for it, so we're left to our own devices.
No studies done, but then how would they ever get enough MLCer's to admit there is something wrong with them to be tested, or studied?
I personally felt my H's was more hormonal and fear of aging. He just panicked, thought he was OLD at 46.
I saw his energy levels go way down, aches and pains and depression set it big time.
But who knows, that's just my theory on one MLCer. ;)
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I agree with Nerissa that attachment is about survival and hard-wiring. Tbh for us as LBS understanding attachment andvattachment trauma is helpful in understanding our own responses to this life experience. In my case, I had the opposite of a bad childhood and a secure attachment style...but losing both my parents and my h created a level of attachment distress that overwhelmed me. From what I know of my xh's history, his childhood was not so good and his attachment issues are quite different.
And without blaming the LBS, as Nerissa says, accepting that attachment is/was part of the dynamics of our marital relationship as it was too. Imho learning more about attachment can help LBS navigate their own path even if their spouse never reaches a level of insight that allows them to do so.
And the fear of aging that Thunder describes and others here see, that sense of time running out to be who you really want to be or do? My suspicion is that it is more about the fear behind the fear and the reason (perhaps linked to FOO stuff) why you feel you didn't do or be or feel content with where you are. Jmo.
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Nerissa,
I agree with you there.
My H learned his avoidance traits from his mother when he was very young. She was the same way.
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I personally felt my H's was more hormonal and fear of aging.
Notice I did not mention fear of aging or hormones? ;D
For my H, his acute awareness of getting old was one of the catalysts that brought up all kinds of FOO issue worms and he wanted to solve the puzzle and settle down in peace for what’s left of his life.
For your H, you say aging issues and out-of-whack hormones were the cause of MLC. What you have seen and heard from your H are enough reasons for you to come to that conclusion. That’s perfectly valid!
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The way we handle debt or job loss or bereavement is learned very early. Not because babies learn about debt but they absorb the way difficult and positive emotions are experienced and processed first by motherr then father and others. Right brain to right brain communication is non verbal and unconscious. And we learn it first from our mothers. And we use it all the time in social
Situations.
I'm reading a great book that discusses the impact a child's mother has on a young child. The book discusses the concept of "good enough" mothering and it also explains what happens when a child doesn't receive good enough mothering. I think it should be encouraging for female LBSes who are raising children to learn that they don't have to be a perfect mother, just good enough, for their children to turn out ok in spite of a father's MLC. And as somebody who didn't experience good enough mothering, I've found it has explained many of the issues that I've had to deal with.
Jasmin Lee Cori is the author. The book is called The Emotionally Absent Mother, Updated and Expanded Second Edition: How to Recognize and Heal the Invisible Effects of Childhood Emotional Neglect.
I was happy to find that my Amazon Prime membership made it possible for me to borrow the book from the Prime lending library and read it for free. The author has also written another book which I already own called Healing from Trauma: A Survivor's Guide to Understanding Your Symptoms and Reclaiming Your Life.
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The way we handle debt or job loss or bereavement is learned very early. Not because babies learn about debt but they absorb the way difficult and positive emotions are experienced and processed first by motherr then father and others. Right brain to right brain communication is non verbal and unconscious. And we learn it first from our mothers. And we use it all the time in social
Situations.
I'm reading a great book that discusses the impact a child's mother has on a young child. The book discusses the concept of "good enough" mothering and it also explains what happens when a child doesn't receive good enough mothering. I think it should be encouraging for female LBSes who are raising children to learn that they don't have to be a perfect mother, just good enough, for their children to turn out ok in spite of a father's MLC. And as somebody who didn't experience good enough mothering, I've found it has explained many of the issues that I've had to deal with.
Jasmin Lee Cori is the author. The book is called The Emotionally Absent Mother, Updated and Expanded Second Edition: How to Recognize and Heal the Invisible Effects of Childhood Emotional Neglect.
I was happy to find that my Amazon Prime membership made it possible for me to borrow the book from the Prime lending library and read it for free. The author has also written another book which I already own called Healing from Trauma: A Survivor's Guide to Understanding Your Symptoms and Reclaiming Your Life.
Brain you might like to listen to these. 🤗
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c0sKY86Qmzo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lY7XOu0yi-E
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AB51V3fAAvs
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Thanks Nerissa! The links look very interesting!
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I think it’s quite normal to question whether it’s MLC, I have many times and still do tbh. But when we face such unexpected and often bizarre situations it’s natural to want to find an explanation. One thing we know for sure is that unlike more ‘ordinary’ breakups most of us were unaware of any issues in our relationships. I never had a word of dissatisfaction. That’s why we refer to ‘bomb drop’ because it is as sudden as an explosion. That in itself isn’t normal unless you have someone who really is expert at never sharing their feelings. I would actually put my MLCr in that category - he was incredibly emotionally detached (avoidant personality) which came from the fact his parents were emotionally unavailable - nothing could ever be wrong, people couldn’t be ill it was a ‘keep smiling and carry on’ childhood. He also would never talk about it much so there was something else there. Many MLCrs seem to have an avoidant personality in my opinion.
I remember very early on someone advising that actually it’s better if it ISNT MLC - affairs do happen but actually the majority of affairs don’t end in the unfaithful spouse leaving (lots of research out there to read) or the bizarre behaviours we see. I would say the chances of a non MLC leaver returning are probably higher. Having someone in MLC is not the preference. Once I started having an explanation for some of the bizarre behaviours and seemingly complete personality changes before BD and then running away within a matter of days from BD, I knew something more was going on.
Before I found hero spouse I actually used the term ‘alien in my H’s body’ I thought he had been body snatched! It was just bizarre and I saw the dead, shark eyes etc. I thought I was dealing with a major depressive episode and I knew my H had issues it was only once I found this site that so many things ‘fit’ yet I was desperate for it not to be MLC. It’s the only thing that makes sense though.
There is a thread on here which is about the behaviours or things your MLCr said - it’s very useful for seeing whether what you have experienced is there. I think it’s the thing so many of us notice that how incredibly similar so many of our experiences are - MLC like other ailments is symptomatic and displays the same symptoms over and over.
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Sparkle, thank you so much for questioning the underpinning belief that some of us have some of the time that MLC is a 'better' label than other possible 'labels'. Tbh what struck me this morning was how truly awful it is to see someone you love unravel and implode, let alone experiencing ones own unravelling in reaction if that happens too - why would anyone wish that to be the explanation or see it as the answer they hope for? My only guess is that it is bc we believe somewhere inside us that any great unravelling can also be a place of grace and hope for an equally great repairing. Even if there is nothing at all we can do about it for someone else other than hear them if they want to talk to us I suppose.
Thank for giving us a different viewpoint than we sometimes see here. And yes, it makes complete sense to NOT want it to be MLC when you look at it from a different angle.
Slightly at a tangent, but maybe only a little one, I accidentally tripped over this interview with the man who wrote a book called The Shack https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a_YEoK72YYk . Some of you might have read the book, some of you might not much like the religious overtones. I had never heard the story of what led the author to write it...and hearing his own words about how the shack is a metaphor for the broken places in us and how he constructed a life 100 yards out from the shack so it looked perfect until it all blew up...it was like listening to a recovered MLCer imho and very humbling and quite moving to hear.
Is this what it feels like to be one of our spouses, I wonder? And he mentions his wife's suffering with real remorse and acknowledgement that both of them were destroyed on one BD day...and that their shared and individual healing took over a decade. I learned a lot from listening to him....of course a slight reflex twitch that I wish I could share some of it with my xh...but I learned a lot about my own shack and healing from it bc the guy does not soft soap it at all. So imho, worth a listen regardless of your faith views bc he talks less about God and more about the metaphorical shack....
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I think for me, I didn’t “NEED” it to be MLC. I just needed some explanation. I’ve got one of those brains where I over analyse and I need answers and explanations and then I can move on. My mum always said that was the difference between me and my brother. I questioned everything. She could say to him “brush your teeth” and away he would go. But I needed “Sacha brush your teeth because if you don’t you will get build up on plague which will cause bad breath” etc. Once I heard that I was fine.
I never get monster. I think I may have had a monster-ish episode once. But from Ow Instagram feed it would appear she gets monster. I question a lot “is it midlife crisis” because Clington isn’t at “midlife” at bomb drop Clington was 32...so to me that was too young.
However, he has all the other tick list. It’s strange because looking back with hindsight I can see the warning signs but I didn’t see them then. Things like about 5 months before BD he demanded he needed to do his bike license. So he did an intensive course and suddenly bought himself a Harley Davidson. He viewed himself different to everyone else. Often I would catch him fresh out of a shower staring in the mirror pinching fat at his stomach. His Ow is complete opposite of not just what his usual type is. But everything he hates in a person. He can’t stand the royal family. She’s obsessed. He doesn’t believe uni education is needed. She is uni educated and believes everyone should be. Brexit. She was in. He was out. I suppose I can’t tell much about his childhood issues because I never met his dad. His dad died when Clington was 15. Oddly enough BD came the year Clingtons Dad was dead 16 year’s meaning his dad had been dead longer than alive for him. However it appears Clingtons dad was a flirt. From stories I’ve heard he had some kind of obsession with Clingtons mums best friend. From what I heard Clingtons dad favoured Clington. He would often wake up to money in his school shoes and his brother didn’t get anything. His dad was away with work a lot and came home and went straight to the pub. He was a very 1980s 1990s style parent. Boys don’t cry. Boys don’t show emotion etc. To the point where when his dad died, nobody saw Clington cry. He ran up to his room and stayed their. I do also remember one time when me BIL Clington MIL and a few friends were in a pub drinking. Me and Clington arrived last so were sober. BIL and MIL were drinking and BIL grabbed MILs arm and she said “Wow you are just like your dad” or something like that. But Clington rarely spoke about his childhood to me. I only know what I know from piecing things together. From a story here to a story there.
I think for me, and anyone who is familiar with my story. Clington is exceptionally clingy. Which wouldn’t make sense if he was a WAS. If he was a WAS. He would have found Ow. Moved on. Been happy. But that’s not the case.
I also agree that, midlife crisis may seem like “oh that’s the excuse” but it’s no excuse. It’s like when a child misses its nap and is cranky and lashes out at a sibling. You don’t say “oh it’s okay she punched her sister in the face. She’s tired” it’s no excuse but it does explain it. It’s also not the easy option. If I had to choose, I certainly wouldn’t choose midlife crisis.
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Hi Sachat,
What your H may be experiencing is a quarter life crisis.
From everything I've read about a quarter life crisis (usually between 25 to early 30's) the only difference from a midlife crisis is the age.
Just because a person is not in their midlife (approximately age 40 to age 65) doesn't mean they can't experience a real crisis.
So I think this site is great for which ever crisis a person is having.
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I have also delved into weather it could be a quarter life too aswell. He ticks almost every single box going. And I think that’s where the forum comes in handy...it’s not about him. The forum is for a community feeling so we know we’re not alone.
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Yep, I agree! :)
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The Shack video is very moving and very fascinating. Thanks for posting it.
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Hi My W only monstered at me 3 times which was within the first 3 months of BD1 and leaving. After BD2 nd BD3 I never saw the monster again although OM got it She then worked through her MLC with OM. After 3yrs and 5 months we are now reconnecting. slowly but steadily. We have talked lots about her behaviour and action over the last 8 months of reconnecting and she cannot remember ever being a monster although I don't think she doubts me when I tell her there was just 3 occurrence's. I have not told her any details of them, as I tell her they were in the past when she was another person so no need to open those wounds again. For every other MLC issue she defo had it and remembers them and regrets them. So I don't think every MLC is the same but they all have the same stages and issues that they have to work through to get out of the other side.
DW
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There is so much on this thread and lots to comment on and I wish I had more time to comment. For now, here are some thoughts after reading through the thread.
Does it matter whether it’s a MLC or something else. For me, yes. I’m not standing and that may never change so why does it matter? It matters because I really want to believe the destruction of my marriage and the life I loved, with the man I loved, had nothing to do with the marriage, the person I am, or the wife I was. I want to believe all that happened had nothing to do with who I am and would have happened regardless of who my h married. Otherwise, how do I explain to myself how my h could have done to me what he did? and how was he able to end a marriage in the most cruel and destructive way that I can possibly imagine? The only way I can handle that it happened at all is to believe that it’s because of MLC craziness. I accept that this may be a huge weakness in me to want to believe it’s MLC for this reason.
A poll asking for opinions on whether it’s a MLC or not, would very likely result in an overwhelming vote for YES. My h fits most of the profile, and ticks many of the boxes for MLC. Why don’t I accept it then? Because I have read lots on Google about affairs, limerance, infatuation, FOO issues, wife abandonment,, etc. and found there are other explanations for a lot of it that have nothing to do with MLC.
The Shack - what an incredible story. The book sold millions because maybe millions can relate to it, not just MLCers. There are so many people with internal ‘shacks’ where all the secrets reside and where we allow no one access. It leads to chronic undefinable unhappiness. That unhappiness either continues endlessly, or we deal with it gradually, or it eventually blows up in a spectacular way leaving us no choice but to search for a way (successful or not) to alleviate it. I think it’s a rare thing for anyone to come through childhood completely unscathed and to not have an internal ‘shack’ that eventually must be torn down if we are to be emotionally healthy. I wonder if MLC is simply the spectacular blow-up because of inability to destroy the ‘shack’. idk,,, just musing.
My h grew up without a father. Father was a drunk who abandoned the family when h was 4 (and became a homeless man). Mother raised the family on welfare but was emotionally absent for the most part, or emotionally cruel. She was especially hot and cold with h so he never had a stable source of love and was always seeking her approval. To this day, he is a people pleaser and will sacrifice himself to win the acceptance and approval of others. You would never know this to look at him - he hides it well - but it’s a huge bottomless pit that if it ever gets filled up, never stays that way. No surprise a person like this will do everything they can to protect the ‘shack’ and so the internal unhappiness continues until the whole big ball of depression and unresolved unhappiness blows up. But is this MLC??? Or just another emotionally maladjusted person who needs years of therapy? His wounds crippled him that much that he couldn’t fix it on his own and he never sought help with it either. I was also raised in a similar environment. So why didn’t I have the so-called mid-life crisis? or even a MLT? The answer is I don’t know except that perhaps my coping skills were different, more effective, or maybe I was just born with more resilience and the ability to gradually find my way through it. I was also able to talk about this with my childhood friends who had similar struggles. We comforted each other. I met a girl in grade 7 whose home life was far worse than mine and we were fast friends and STILL ARE - 55 years later. I just came back from a week visiting her in the US. My h had no such outlet as he chose to present the facade of the super cool guy which won him many friends that he still has ongoing contact with. But nothing was discussed then or now about childhood pain and feeling lack of love and acceptance.
Okay I could go on but I’ve run out of time. Thanks for listening and posting. Great discussion.
Interview with the author of The Shack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_A0-kyYXQ This is a longer interview than the link posted earlier in the thread but,,,I was glued to it. If you have the time, watch this longer interview. I can’t imagine what could possibly be left out and still have the impact it did. It does reference God and faith frequently but the central message is applicable to anyone so don’t let that deter you. It’s well worth watching.
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But is this MLC??? Or just another emotionally maladjusted person who needs years of therapy?
I think these are the same thing.
I was also raised in a similar environment. So why didn’t I have the so-called mid-life crisis? or even a MLT?
I mean no disrespect but maybe your time hasn't come yet. If you were raised in a similar environment, it could still happen to you. We don't know before it happens that we're going to have a crisis. It's only afterwards, looking back, that we realize what happened.
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MBIB - I am well past the age for having even a late life crisis. Those here who have met me will confirm that, lol. The next crisis that could possibly hit me would be an end of life crisis. ::)
I also cannot relate to years of chronic internal unhappiness or depression either. Quite the opposite. As far as whether MLC is the same as any other emotionally maladjusted chronically unhappy person? Could be, but then is MLC just another ineffective way to deal with the “shack” and the unhappiness that comes with it. If so, it seems like an unnecessary and confusing additional label.
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So why didn’t I have the so-called mid-life crisis? or even a MLT?
If this is a serious, rather than rhetorical, question I would propose that you probably had the opportunity to develop a secure attachment with somebody during your early years. It doesn't sound like your husband had that opportunity. Research seems to show that children with insecure attachments are at grave risk for future mental and emotional problems. It could be that you're resilient. It could also be that you were fortunate. And it could be that you're resilient because you were fortunate.
No child deserves a childhood like the one your husband had. I hope he's able to find a way to heal the damaged child within him.
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So why didn’t I have the so-called mid-life crisis? or even a MLT?
If this is a serious, rather than rhetorical, question I would propose that you probably had the opportunity to develop a secure attachment with somebody during your early years. It doesn't sound like your husband had that opportunity. Research seems to show that children with insecure attachments are at grave risk for future mental and emotional problems. It could be that you're resilient. It could also be that you were fortunate. And it could be that you're resilient because you were fortunate.
No child deserves a childhood like the one your husband had. I hope he's able to find a way to heal the damaged child within him.
All this MBIB, I agree 100%. “There, but for the grace of God go I”. I also hope my h finds healing and happiness one day. If he ever gets unstuck and out of Replay,,,maybe. Thanks for your comments.
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Thank you, Anon, for your gracious response. I was afraid I might have pushed too hard. I do that sometimes. :(
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I remember very early on someone advising that actually it’s better if it ISNT MLC - affairs do happen but actually the majority of affairs don’t end in the unfaithful spouse leaving (lots of research out there to read) or the bizarre behaviours we see. I would say the chances of a non MLC leaver returning are probably higher. Having someone in MLC is not the preference. Once I started having an explanation for some of the bizarre behaviours and seemingly complete personality changes before BD and then running away within a matter of days from BD, I knew something more was going on.
This is a really interesting comment and I have been thinking about it the last few days. It made me ask myself: If this is so, then why have we been sold this story that many MLCers will come out of it and want to return? Why is MLC made out to be some sort of hopeful situation when really it is crappier than your garden variety affair?
I got to thinking about how HB and I think RCR have articles about the difference between an MLC affair and an exit affair. But that is actually a red herring. Because there is something else other than an MLC OR exit affair. Namely, an affair that doesn't involve MLC and ends without divorce. And I thought about it. In that situation, the person having the affair probably doesn't undergo such a personality change. The spouse may sense something but in some cases they won't. In some cases the affair will end without the spouse even knowing about it, or when they find out, the cheater will end it immediately and recommit to their marriage and spouse. This probably accounts for more situations, so why on earth is MLC seen as somehow more of a hopeful situation than that?!?
So I got to thinking about RCR and HB's motivations. RCR, when she made this site, was very clear that her goal was to reduce the divorce rate. Well, if you want to do that, then the first thing you need to do is to convince the LBS to hang on. So you have to give them some hope. The same thing with HB, she is very against divorce and in support of standing. So both have a motivation to make it seem like MLC is a temporary thing that will be over and result in a better marriage. Because if the focus was simply on replay, no one in their right mind would stand.
But what Sparkle says above makes it seem even more counterintuitive that there are many people in this forum who have been basically waiting for their spouses to come back, get better, etc etc. for years. Why are people encouraged to stand in the worst of cases?
I think HB and RCR's descriptions of the MLC process are pretty accurate. But I find myself questioning more and more their relationship advice, partially because I think their agenda to save marriages is applied to all indiscriminately and not all MLC affected marriages are salvageable.
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I think you hit it on the head NYM........ the difference being "Affair" and "Exit Affair".
"Normal" affair, yeah they (may) come back (would you want them?).
"Exit affair", they are gone and it's over.
One long term, one quick.
Personally, I'd choose MLC over either of these.
"Normal" affair"? Nope. Goodbye. I'm not going to be married to a tramp. It would take something extraordinary for me to reverse my heart on that one.
"Exit affair"? Well, the choice would be made for me. There's nothing to do. Goodbye.
MLC affair or "just" MLC? That's a tough one isn't it? Is it "them" or isn't it? There is so much to have compassion for in MLC, and with compassion is love and forgiveness. That personality change is a swerve no one can see coming, or know what to do with it.
I'd take MLC over the flavors of standard affairs any day. Worst part is time. MLC takes the most by far. I watched a video saying a standard affair takes two years of work to regain trust. That's just a warm up for a MLC'er. LOL!!!! Spending our limited and valuable time currency at midlife on someone that may not have a return on investment is just too high a cost for many (and it's understandable).
-SS
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Come back in 3 years and tell us if you think MLC is so wonderful like you think it is now.
Every newbie suffers from a "my midlifer is different" syndrome, that their MLC will be mild and they will get through it with minimal disruption and damage to their life, their relationship and everything else, that all they need to do is be a perfect spouse and their MLCer will magically be cured.
It doesn't work that way. It either is MLC and will get a lot uglier and unpleasant for you and her than it is now, or it isn't MLC, and it won't.
You really need to get over yourself. You aren't so special that you can cure an MLCer without them having to wreak havoc with your life.
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I agree with everything Standing Strong wrote. MLC is completely different because it is so unexpected and the MLCer changes so drastically. Although we may question whether it's MLC, deep inside we know that this is not the person we knew and that the person we knew would never have had either an affair or an exit affair.
Why are people encouraged to stand in the worst of cases?
This is easy to ask but how do you know which cases are the worst? I couldn't tell you which ones are more likely to have a successful outcome.
You really need to get over yourself. You aren't so special that you can cure an MLCer without them having to wreak havoc with your life.
Perhaps you could explain why you felt the need to make a comment like this because to me it just seems cold and cruel. I thought you were better than this.
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I know my wife is going through MLC, and it is the most terrible thing she has gone through as far as I know (and I know her past very well and there are some doozies there). The pattern of MLC is just so clear when you step away a little bit, it is so different than an exit affair or just a failing relationship.
And I will say I do not wish MLC on anyone, even my enemies. In a lot of ways I wish my wife was not going through MLC, rather she had an “exit affair,” that she simply drifted away. If that was the case my life and the changes would still be exactly the same, I will be fine and am living my life in the new reality. But at least I would know that this person I shared most of my life with, for whom I care deeply and have loved could or would be happy. That actually would be a relief. Sometimes I even imagine she is happy, back to her old joyful self, and living a great life with another person (or alone). When I do I feel lighter and its so much easier to move on. But then all the details of what has happened creep back in and I remember the look of pain and confusion on her face. One thing I did that has helped me a lot is I would take notes as I interacted with her. Because sometimes even I start wondering was it all real, or am I just coming up with excuses to make myself feel better. Then reading about the behaviors, things she said, and just whiplash back and forth reminds me no, none of it was normal.
I think a lot of people at start think they can get a hold of MLC and they can “fix” it. They misread the GAL and move on as a trick, that if they do that they will simply survive the help their spouse. It’s natural specially if you don’t have a lot of experience with human psychology, trauma and mental fractures. It’s easy to imagine this is kind of a serious game. But when you understand what is going on when someone falls deeply into a condition we call MLC you realize what a significant event this is, that if there is recovery it will be something akin to recovering from near death experience and being flown to shock trauma. But its hard to internalize this understanding of how badly off our loved ones are.
Maybe we all need to live in denial until we recover enough to start confronting the real truth. I know its been said a lot but all the stages of grieving also apply to the LBS. Denial/bargaining is a big part of the early days.
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Every newbie suffers from a "my midlifer is different" syndrome, that their MLC will be mild and they will get through it with minimal disruption and damage to their life, their relationship and everything else, that all they need to do is be a perfect spouse and their MLCer will magically be cured.
Yep, that’s me!
It doesn't work that way. It either is MLC and will get a lot uglier and unpleasant for you and her than it is now, or it isn't MLC, and it won't.
Yep, it did get very ugly, very unpleasant, very unbelievable, very nasty...
And then this happened:
But when you understand what is going on when someone falls deeply into a condition we call MLC you realize what a significant event this is, that if there is recovery it will be something akin to recovering from near death experience and being flown to shock trauma. But its hard to internalize this understanding of how badly off our loved ones are.
I would not wish MLC on my worst enemy.
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“Come back in 3 years and tell us if you think MLC is so wonderful like you think it is now.”
Actually how ‘bout stick around and continue to document your experiences for us.
“Every newbie suffers from a "my midlifer is different" syndrome, that their MLC will be mild and they will get through it with minimal disruption and damage to their life, their relationship and everything else, that all they need to do is be a perfect spouse and their MLCer will magically be cured.”
(Sample of one speaking) I never felt my Wife was different. Quite the contrary as I identified her as very similar to other people’s spouses. I learned this thanks to this site and it’s contributors. Not sure what a perfect spouse is, not sure I'd even want one, but for sure I didn't put any weight into the -If I just do this or that she'll return mentality-
“It doesn't work that way. It either is MLC and will get a lot uglier and unpleasant for you and her than it is now, or it isn't MLC, and it won’t.”
Really? This is garaunteed? 100%? or is just very likely?
“You really need to get over yourself. You aren't so special that you can cure an MLCer without them having to wreak havoc with your life.”
Yes Mr.Stand, how dare you step out of line and try to do things differently!!!! Oh wait, it is the people who are willing to try new things, to explore other possibilities and outcomes that move the world forward. Please carry on….
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In my opinion, this is where some posters cross the line - telling someone they are not “special” and to “get over themselves” is insulting and disparaging. So unfortunate that a person would stoop to this level with anyone, even more so someone who’s bomb drop was recent.
For me, I too am almost comforted by the fact that this experience is MLC - and my husband is at the extreme end of the spectrum... that said, the man I knew for 18 years prior to bomb drop was a loving, hilarious, responsible man who cherished his wife and sons. And while many do not return or want to reconcile, many do. I would rather consider this time my opportunity to grow and evolve as an individual, support and guide my children’s growth. I had a really lovely life and marriage - I was blessed beyond imagination, my desire is to stand in the gap for my husband as he goes through his identity crisis, I consider this the “or worse” portion of my vows. And at the end of the day, if he never chooses to recreate any kind of relationship, friendship or rebuilt marriage, I will know that I honored my marriage, was true to myself, my boys, my vows and my husband. Does that mean I will stand for ever? At this point choosing to stand is a daily decision, I don’t know what the future brings...
It is a decision we all must make for ourselves - and if you are going through this, stay strong, know people are here to support you, and ignore those comments designed to bring you down
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You really need to get over yourself. You aren't so special that you can cure an MLCer without them having to wreak havoc with your life.
This was just nasty, NYM
And unnecessary.
I have no idea why a woman of your purported erudition couldn't find a more adult way to make your point. Or indeed even how you inferred this from what he actually posted....bc Standing Strong didn't claim to be special or deny the havoc. In fact he said almost the opposite as a reason for understanding why people don't stand in his last sentence.
Whatever fed your response came from your head or a bad day, not Standing's words
I am sure that he will react with the same grace that he has shown before. I am not sure i have ever seen you apologise on HS before. Perhaps this would be a good day to try something new as a role model for 'getting over yourself'....
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In my opinion, this is where some posters cross the line - telling someone they are not “special” and to “get over themselves” is insulting and disparaging. So unfortunate that a person would stoop to this level with anyone, even more so someone who’s bomb drop was recent.
For me, I too am almost comforted by the fact that this experience is MLC - and my husband is at the extreme end of the spectrum... that said, the man I knew for 18 years prior to bomb drop was a loving, hilarious, responsible man who cherished his wife and sons. And while many do not return or want to reconcile, many do. I would rather consider this time my opportunity to grow and evolve as an individual, support and guide my children’s growth. I had a really lovely life and marriage - I was blessed beyond imagination, my desire is to stand in the gap for my husband as he goes through his identity crisis, I consider this the “or worse” portion of my vows. And at the end of the day, if he never chooses to recreate any kind of relationship, friendship or rebuilt marriage, I will know that I honored my marriage, was true to myself, my boys, my vows and my husband. Does that mean I will stand for ever? At this point choosing to stand is a daily decision, I don’t know what the future brings...
How we each approach this? It is a decision we all must make for ourselves - and if you are going through this, stay strong, know people are here to support you, and ignore those comments designed to bring you down.
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NYM - your response was out of line and unacceptably rude.
SS posted his thoughts and they are his thoughts. It is fine for you to disagree whole-heartedly with them but you have overstepped the line here by asking him to "get over himself" You do not know him and I would draw your attention to the code of conduct
"Respectful behavior is polite, tolerant and considerate of the feelings of your fellow posters and seeks to resolve conflict with peace and empathy.
Disrespect results in hurt feelings and distresses, disturbs, and/or offends others. Uncivil behavior is rude, impolite, discourteous behavior that displays a lack of regard for others.
Be Kind, Choose Your Words with Care
Please be kind and gracious to your fellow community members. Insults, bullying, harassment, threats… will not be tolerated.
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For me, I too am almost comforted by the fact that this experience is MLC - and my husband is at the extreme end of the spectrum... that said, the man I knew for 18 years prior to bomb drop was a loving, hilarious, responsible man who cherished his wife and sons. And while many do not return or want to reconcile, many do. I would rather consider this time my opportunity to grow and evolve as an individual, support and guide my children’s growth. I had a really lovely life and marriage - I was blessed beyond imagination, my desire is to stand in the gap for my husband as he goes through his identity crisis, I consider this the “or worse” portion of my vows. And at the end of the day, if he never chooses to recreate any kind of relationship, friendship or rebuilt marriage, I will know that I honored my marriage, was true to myself, my boys, my vows and my husband. Does that mean I will stand for ever? At this point choosing to stand is a daily decision, I don’t know what the future brings...
Beautifully stated. :)
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I think I’m still wavering on the MLC aspect my STBXW certainly seems to be happy in her new life. Although we remain no contact I get a lot of monster through her solicitors letters. She’s already done so much damage to our lives that’s it’s hard for me some days to consider how we could ever rebuild a life together as family and friends now despise her. I hope she does find a path through bit from being here I realise that it’s going to take a lot of work from both of us.
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Interview with the author of The Shack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_A0-kyYXQ This is a longer interview than the link posted earlier in the thread but,,,I was glued to it. If you have the time, watch this longer interview. I can’t imagine what could possibly be left out and still have the impact it did. It does reference God and faith frequently but the central message is applicable to anyone so don’t let that deter you. It’s well worth watching.
Thank you for sharing this, Anon. I am listening to it while stacking logs in the autumn sunshine here. The phrase that touches me most is that 'God is especially fond of each of us'...LBS and MLCer alike...what a nice thought that is :) Makes me feel better that, notwithstanding the end of my m and my xh's behaviour towards me, a bit of me is still 'especially fond of him' too quietly and from a long way away.
Wilder, you may be too close to see the wood for the trees....as we all are for a while. I don't know if the MLC label fits but nothing you have posted on your own thread sounds like how a rational, healthy, happy adult behaves. Your w is taking a wrecking ball to her own life and behaving in ways which are far from normal. Truly. And that is not caused by you although it effects you of course. When people are doing this kind of destruction and crazy, there is no shared path....so right now all you can do is invest the work in your own life and wellbeing and protect yourself. I don't know how to label it, MLC or not, but your w is not behaving like a normal healthy adult, Wilder. Not even close. And grim as it is, this is the kind of behaviour that removes doubt that something very dark and weird is going on with your w. Which is the strange kind of gift of the WTF stuff that is so shocking and exhausting to deal with. Let the future unfold and look after yourself the best you can right now. Sufficient unto the day etc etc.
When I doubted most, it was bc my then h became a vanisher so, bc I had little information, it was easier to doubt my own judgments or to assume that it was normal so the problem must be in my head.
When I doubted least, it was when WTF crazy stuff just happened without my involvement, just showed up, and when I get those moments even now of disbelief about how surreal it all felt or how I got from there to here.
A little time and distance does help you to see two things I think.
This is not what normal feels like, even an end of a marriage normal, particularly if it continues way after they have left or divorce is done or you have very little contact.
And if it quacks like a weird duck, it is most probably a weird duck whether it is an MLC duck or not ;)
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I can’t speak for NYM but how I read her reply of “getting over yourself” was not targeting SS individually but to all of us when we are newbies and the normal thought processes we all go through.
Yes, most of us think that our MLCer will be “mild”. Most of us new to MLC think we will be different, our marriage was so special that we will have an early return. I know I thought all these things. I just KNEW that my marriage was so much better than the typical marriage, bc everybody in our lives said so, we said so, I said so,..
I needed to “get over myself”
Reread what NYM wrote. It was a good discussion that I feel was misinterpreted.
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Don't disagree with NYM's points at all as you say Nah.
Most of us have been down that path and then learned that we were wrong ;)
Just found her tone rather nasty and bc it followed on from Standing's post, and seemed to react to it, it came across as being aimed at him as a newbie, pricking his 'bubble' perhaps.
But I am happy to be corrected by NYM if I was wrong about that. Just found the tone a bit idk aggressive and over-personal I suppose.