[Nerissa]

This is interesting. Someone wrote on another thread that MLC is a choice and the MLCer could choose to not have the MLC.

I doubt they can choose their feelings.  They can choose what to do with those feelings.  By definition, they aren’t especially self aware.  Those that develop awareness have a shorter crisis.  Virtually none, as far as I can see, find a really good therapist because they are too busy ‘living in the moment’ and doing what feels right at the time.  It’s called ‘ego syntonic ‘ behaviour because it feels good.  To get understanding and feel at fault and to change is jolly tough.  That would be ‘ego dystonic’.  If most of them were that emotionally mature they wouldn’t  wreak this destruction. 

And knowingly or not, without  doing anything ‘wrong’ we are a part of the dynamic.

[Not Applicable]

I saw some discussion about detachment issues on another thread and it was all very foreign to me and didn't make much sense because it is not something I have ever seen in m H. My H simply does not have attachment issues. His childhood issues have nothing to do with attachment whatsoever. It's about control and physical abuse. However, I can see how certain childhood traumas would cause some people to have attachment issues, especially if they experienced some kind of loss or abandonment. I just wanted to say that I think that the childhood issues should be so narrowly defined to one type of issue.

[Acorn]

I think there is a lot of overlap in the ‘symptoms’ of infidelity and MLC - Emotional distancing from the spouse, kids, friends and FOO; angry and being critical toward the spouse; overt attention to physical appearance; spending money like water, etc.  In my opinion, one of the major differences between a garden variety walk-away spouse and MLC is the presence of childhood/teenage issues.  Of course, this, too, can be ‘found’ if LBS tries hard enough (you will see what you want to see), considering that not many people can claim a perfect childhood with perfect parents. 

I agree that not all situations on HS are MLC related and it could be a person having an affair and moving on, or taking stock at midlife and deciding that they want something different.  It is understandable that LBS prefers MLC explanation, because, then, there is some chance that their spouses will come back, so we read.  It may also partly explain what I see as some LBSs projecting their spouses on to ShockSis and taking it personally if she is challenged.  She said she always loved her H deep down and that she wanted to get back with him.  Probing questions, observations and opinions presented to ShockSis which are not ‘thank you’s and praises, perhaps challenge LBS’s own dream that his/her spouses really loves them deep down and will want to come back to them eventually?  One needs to believe her spouse is in MLC in order to validate this ‘dream’ and not think of oneself as gone cuckoo. 

I think that it’s not only LBSs who want to believe their spouses are in MLC.  It’s possible that the errant spouse may latch onto the idea of MLC as a fog to obscure one's infidelity. You know, a tailor-made ‘reason’ why they behaved dishonourably to escape one’s full accountability.

[Not Applicable]

I also agree with NYM and Nerissa about MLC being triggered by childhood wounding but I don't think we can use that as an indicator because I believe the wounding isn't always overt and noticeable.

I agree it may not always be overt and noticeable. But I would say the proportion of people on here who have cited it as a factor in their spouse's MLC is so high that I think that the ones who haven't mentioned it simply are the minority where it isn't overt and noticeable, but it is likely still there.

[Not Applicable]

  She said she always loved her H deep down and that she wanted to get back with him.

All quite romantic and dreamy when it isn't a reality. I think if she actually did get back together with him the story would not be so nice and neat and packaged with a red heart on top. There'd be another woman and her two children divorced and dumped and probably a lot of other issues that would need to be dealt with. No one will tell you reconnection and reconciliation are easy or pleasant except for someone who isn't reconnecting or reconciling. Again, the lack of actual reconnection or reconciliation makes it all more like a fantasy that is very palatable to some. But there also seems to be a disconnect here because unlike SS's followers, SS's XH has moved on, divorced her and married someone else. I'm not sure how her story could be a model for them because they have nothing in common with the LBS in this case.

[3Boys4Me]

Barbie - thank you for sharing that, having your uncooked MLCer return too soon could be all kinds of crazy making. I can’t even imagine living with my spouse ATM, with all the gaslighting, monster, lies etc.

Him being a close contacter is difficult enough.  Heartsblessing talks a lot about the return/reconciliation being more difficult than replay - and maybe that’s true for many if not all. None of it is easy, and like you, I am in my own crisis now, born from the depths of his. However, I recognize it and am actively working on identifying my issues, creating space for health and healing and taking a constructive approach without blaming him, or anyone else, for my current emotional well being.

[Standing Strong]

When I said what I said, it was no way near how he said I said it, but we were at home sitting on the couch, just the two of us.  Nope, we were in the kitchen and so and so was there and they were shocked you would say that too by the look on their face.   

There was no convincing him but I thought, ok this IS a MLC.  That did not happen.

Also a few weeks after BD I made reference to something he said the night of BD, he immediately looked horrified and said.."I never said that, I would never say something like that!"

But he did.   

That made me laugh so hard....... YES.... the completely missing and false memories..... that is SUCH a trip.
Or even weirder, when the memories come back completely unannounced and they can't remember not remembering. 
I mean, when you can't remember, you can't remember.... but when you can remember but can't remember not remembering......
 

-SS

[Nerissa]

I saw some discussion about detachment issues on another thread and it was all very foreign to me and didn't make much sense because it is not something I have ever seen in m H. My H simply does not have attachment issues. His childhood issues have nothing to do with attachment whatsoever. It's about control and physical abuse. However, I can see how certain childhood traumas would cause some people to have attachment issues, especially if they experienced some kind of loss or abandonment. I just wanted to say that I think that the childhood issues should be so narrowly defined to one type of issue.

It’s not a narrow field. Everyone of us has an attachment style.  Everyone has specific traits in relating to others.  It’s called attachment , not detachment.  It originates with our mothers. It’s probably the biggest area of current research in mental health.  It involves right brain development.  The right brain is the place where all emotion resides. 

It began in the 1950s when John Bowlby argued  that humans biggest drive was not, as Freud posited, sex, but attachment to others.  It means survival.  We are social creatures and know ourselves only in relationship to others.  Developments in neuroscience mean that the Physical aspects of the brain may be mapped while babies/mothers are interacting.  The way our mothers regulate our emotions for us actually creates the structure of our brain.  It links with much psychoanalytical theory - the theory of mother as ‘container’ - receiving our feelings and feeding them back to us in a way that calms and holds us.  It’s  compelling.  I don’t mean simple  internet articles, but the real science.  The UK govt is rolling out an expensive investment in school Based therapists trained by people with psychoanalytical/attachment based training upon the research and advice of Professor Peter Fonagy.  In the US it’s Alan Schore.  Also Daniel Stern.  Dan Siegel.  Stephen Porges.

I’m a member of a charity here - an infant /parent project which helps new parents learn these things so their attachment is as  secure as possible.  It was set up by Sue Gerhardt, author of ‘why Love Matters’. I don’t do anything for the charity but I attend lectures by specialist child psychiatrists from universities on these issues and their centrality to secure emotional development.  Secure attachment and untraumatised babies would save a fortune in social costs.

[Thunder]

Actually there are many articles written about the cause of a Midlife Crisis.
If you Google "causes of a Midlife Crisis?" you will get many different theories.

The causes can be more than just a bad childhood.

Here just one example of one I read:

https://www.liveabout.com/what-is-a-midlife-crisis-1102907

I found the Avoidant Personality part interesting, since so many of us have reported our MLCer's display this type of personality.

[Acorn]

I think that the word ‘cause’ can be a misnomer.  I would regard many of them as the ‘catalyst’, not the root cause.  Empty nest, redundancy, mounting debt, serious health problems and death of a loved one, a friend or a colleague.  Any of these can be the straw that broke camel’s back but not the main burden.  Just my opinion.