[Thunder]

Anon,

Not all MLCer's are the same.  You could have been describing my XH to T, so I get your confusion.
Never Monstered, was always kind, never mean, polite, no ow, divorce done friendly, the whole shebang.

I doubted for a long time he was not in a MLC.  He just didn't fit what I was reading here.  Maybe he really did just fall out of love with me.

UNTIL the day he rewrote history.  I can't tell you how shocked I was, he not only talked about something he claimed I said (which I never would, even in anger), but he put people in it that weren't there.
When I said what I said, it was no way near how he said I said it, but we were at home sitting on the couch, just the two of us.  Nope, we were in the kitchen and so and so was there and they were shocked you would say that too by the look on their face.   

There was no convincing him but I thought, ok this IS a MLC.  That did not happen.

Also a few weeks after BD I made reference to something he said the night of BD, he immediately looked horrified and said.."I never said that, I would never say something like that!"

But he did.   

I don't think SS sells any fantasy, but I do agree there probably are people on here who's spouse's are not in MLC.  Most are, but I wouldn't think all.  Sometimes it's just easier to believe that, than that their spouse just walked away.  There are some marriages where one or the other really wasn't happy, for what ever reason.

I think you will just know in hindsight.

Still I believe a lot of the advice on here is good for either a walk away spouse, or a Midlifer.
Protect your finances, detach, live your life 'as if" they are not coming back and be kind to yourself.  Concentrate on you and make your life the best you can.  Let them go.

[Not Applicable]

That is a good list that Treasur posted.

I would also add that I think MLC is triggered by childhood issues, and in the absence of such issues, it's not MLC. I know some don't agree with this. But for me that is an essential part of what I believe is an illness. Someone else may appear to be in MLC, but without that underlying cause/trigger, it simply can't be the same thing. Every illness has causes and symptoms. You can't have one without the other.

As for monster, I would just point out that the spouse is not necessarily the (only) target of Monster. The OP, family members, coworkers, friends can also be  subject to monster behavior. So just because you don't see it doesn't mean he isn't exhibiting it to someone.

[Nerissa]

Treasure, I think that’s the best, most comprehensive list available on-line. Thanks for reminding.

It is comprehensive.  It also pretty much a list which encapsulates behaviours expected in and springing from, at best, a very avoidant attachment style and at the more extreme end, a narcissistic personality adaptation.

Monster is about projection and projective identification, unconscious means of regulating self esteem and avoiding shame.

There isn’t a boundaried condition called mlc, surely?  I’d say anyone who leaves a long marriage or a marriage with children when their spouse is not in agreement is in crisis and under stress.

The thing that we struggle  so hard with I think is that their actions and our preoccupation with them derail us from being in control our own lives.  A lot of the things Treasur writes, especially recently, are gratefully received by us all.  And she focuses us not on whether it’s mlc but what feel about and what we are going to do about behaviour that doesn’t belong in an equal partnership.  That’s what we find so hard but it’s what she is so clear sighted about.

They are all in crisis.  We are almost all thrown into Crisis too.

[Disillusioned]

Treasur - It's a good list and it definitely bears repeated readings.  Additionally, I can say it applies to female MLC as well.  My W ticks almost every box on there, and that's not all from just my observation.  She's verbalized many of those qualities directly to me.  They KNOW what they are going through in many cases.  I just think they feel unable to stop it.

[3Boys4Me]

Well said Nerissa

[Nerissa]

I would also add that I think MLC is triggered by childhood issues,

I would agree with this.  A friend who is a mental health specialist said pretty much everyone referred to her has a problem with its roots in attachment issues.  I asked my T if it was that straightforward and she agreed in that just about every problem we have in life is relational and our relational behaviours are driven by attachment styles.  The spouse is the primary attachment figure where the mother once performed that role.

A therapist who is a professor at UCLA school of medicine has suggested that affairs are a function of insecure childhood attachment.   My simplistic interpretation is that the extreme difficulty of breaking attachments but the opposing difficulty of maintaining a marriage where attachment issues are affecting the unconscious dynamics is what  causes the monstering and push pull behaviours.

[barbiedoll]

The 1st time I saw that list was on my husbands desk under a pile of papers. He obviously printed it and kept it. I just left it where I found it.

They are all in crisis.  We are almost all thrown into Crisis too.

.

This is the truest fact . I am in crisis...there is no question . Is it MLC ?  I have no idea. This is indeed 1 of the most impossible situations ...when men in MLC return too early . Time is a gift ..not that I saw that at the time. I had NO time to do my own work, processing, healing etc. Trying to rebuild or reconnect after such a shock is extremely difficult when you are circling around your own black hole. His crisis and all his actions absolutely spun me into my own life altering critical mess.  Trying to "heal" together ?   Just a sh#t storm. Time is an absolute gift and if I had it to do again? I never would have let him return as quickly as I did.

[Watcher]

Oh I've had plenty of doubt myself. I have had bigtime MONSTER. Pretty nasty stuff.

I thought it was Bipolar for the longest time and my IC kept shooting that down. I was on this Narcissism track for awhile because she put me on that trail. Recently this Summer I was thinking borderline personality disorder.

I've now dismissed them all. There are elements of every disorder found in MLC.  My IC always said identity crisis.

I'm back to MLC now myself. She is a clinically depressed woman (8yrs treated) who is having a crisis. I went to her appointments for years and talked to her IC.

Clinical depression, anxiety, panic attacks. That's all we ever discussed. Nothing more.

She definitely is having some type of crisis. That is for sure.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

This is the truest fact . I am in crisis...there is no question . Is it MLC ?  I have no idea. This is indeed 1 of the most impossible situations ...when men in MLC return too early . Time is a gift ..not that I saw that at the time. I had NO time to do my own work, processing, healing etc. Trying to rebuild or reconnect after such a shock is extremely difficult when you are circling around your own black hole. His crisis and all his actions absolutely spun me into my own life altering critical mess.  Trying to "heal" together ?   Just a sh#t storm. Time is an absolute gift and if I had it to do again? I never would have let him return as quickly as I did.

This is interesting. Someone wrote on another thread that MLC is a choice and the MLCer could choose to not have the MLC. I was considering starting a Discussion Thread asking whether anyone knew of anyone who seemed to have started down the road to an MLC and then decided to stop. I've never heard of it happening and I don't believe it's possible. The closest I can come to that is a few situations like Barbie's where the MLCer returns early and it seems like it's always extremely difficult when the MLCer returns and they aren't "fully baked".

Anon, my wife's behavior is similar to your husbands. I have no doubt that she's going through what would be considered an MLC on here. I also agree with NYM and Nerissa about MLC being triggered by childhood wounding but I don't think we can use that as an indicator because I believe the wounding isn't always overt and noticeable.

I believe the monstering is a stress response. Fight-flight stress responses fall onto a continuum that runs from fight to fawn and another that runs from flight to freeze. I think an MLCer's location on these continuums determines the type and level of monstering. My wife leans more towards fawning than fighting and more toward flight than freezing so she moved out but tries to stay on my good side. I also lean more toward fawning but I'm strongly orientated towards freezing so I was a civil wallower.

[Treasur]

I agree with both NYM and Nerissa about FOO/attachment issues plus for some maybe early life trauma. Perfect storm of unresolved FOO/trauma + events + poor coping skills + depression + weak sense of self...the bit that seems very MLCish is the desire to run/escape in such an extreme way...so as Nerissa says morevof a melting pot than a strict boundary? Jmo. Someone recent,y said, maybe Alvin, that perhaps called it MLC isn't very helpful....it's a kind of shorthand...but maybe it would be more accurate to call it an existential or identity crisis. Or the old fashioned RL word 'breakdown' even. As Watcher says, lots of behaviour comes out that looks like the traits of other label doesn't it?

And yes most LBS experience their own crisis in reaction....but maybe different flavours bc we have different contributing components?

Some of the 'mlc' behaviours do seem to happen with limerent exit affairs from what i' e read. The difference seems to be in how extreme some of the changes can be and how long and deep the crisis is maybe.

And some of the weird things as Thunder describes. I still remember when my then h did not recognise himself in a photo of us on my desk. He was being genuine; he really didn't. In fact he thought it was some unknown man with me instead of a laughing picture of us on our first vacation which had been on my desk for years. I knew that wasn't normal....and as MBIB said it never felt at least initially when I saw more of my then h's behaviour that he had woken up and chosen to have s crisis/breakdown. Perhaps at times he had some choice over how he dealt with it, just like I did when I had PTSD. Or not lol.

I honestly think labels can serve us and also not. Having the label of PTSD helped me find the right kind of treatment for instance, so useful. But sometimes trusting our own instinct and judgment about what feels normal or not, ok or not, is better imho....so we can call it Fish if that works for us! In fact I called PTSD Lucy the Lizard for several months - as far as I know not yet in the DSM lol. Although perhaps the DSM would be more fun with animal cartoons now I think about it 

So I think what we're saying Anon is that working out WHY you want to feel sure when you feel detached enough to look at it with more of a helicopter view will allow you to reach the conclusion that FEELS right to you and serves you best. What we do to survive and rebuild is often much the same.