[Nerissa]

The causes can be more than just a bad childhood.

I’m sorry to labour a point but it doesn’t need to be a bad childhood. Just one with misattunment from caregivers.  Or caregivers who valu things or self over relationship.  Or suffering depression or too many children or sickness among family members or death.  Just life in fact.

But everything that happens to us as infants shapes our brains and the way we handle our emotions and other people.  Therefore what we learn and experience influences our future.  Everyone develops and has transition and changes throughout life.  Everyone encounters trouble.  The destruction depends upon the way we deal with these things and the way we deal with them (since problems involve people) depends upon our view of relationships and our relational habits and style.

The way we handle debt or job loss or bereavement is learned very early.  Not because babies learn about debt but they absorb the way difficult and positive emotions are experienced and processed first by motherr then father and others.  Right brain to right brain communication is non verbal and unconscious.  And we learn it first from our mothers.  And we use it all the time in social
Situations.

[Thunder]

I sure don't know, Acorn.  That could be true.

I guess we all have our opinions on what caused our spouse to go into a crisis.
I suppose because there are no hard, factual, or medical reason for it, so we're left to our own devices.
No studies done, but then how would they ever get enough MLCer's to admit there is something wrong with them to be tested, or studied?

I personally felt my H's was more hormonal and fear of aging.  He just panicked, thought he was OLD at 46. 
I saw his energy levels go way down, aches and pains and depression set it big time.

But who knows, that's just my theory on one MLCer.   

[Treasur]

I agree with Nerissa that attachment is about survival and hard-wiring. Tbh for us as LBS understanding attachment andvattachment trauma is helpful in understanding our own responses to this life experience. In my case, I had the opposite of a bad childhood and a secure attachment style...but losing both my parents and my h created a level of attachment distress that overwhelmed me. From what I know of my xh's history, his childhood was not so good and his attachment issues are quite different.

And without blaming the LBS, as Nerissa says, accepting that attachment is/was part of the dynamics of our marital relationship as it was too. Imho learning more about attachment can help LBS navigate their own path even if their spouse never reaches a level of insight that allows them to do so.

And the fear of aging that Thunder describes and others here see, that sense of time running out to be who you really want to be or do? My suspicion is that it is more about the fear behind the fear and the reason (perhaps linked to FOO stuff) why you feel you didn't do or be or feel content with where you are. Jmo.

[Thunder]

Nerissa,

I agree with you there.
My H learned his avoidance traits from his mother when he was very young.  She was the same way.

[Acorn]

I personally felt my H's was more hormonal and fear of aging.

Notice I did not mention fear of aging or hormones? 

For my H, his acute awareness of getting old was one of the catalysts that brought up all kinds of FOO issue worms and he wanted to solve the puzzle and settle down in peace for what’s left of his life. 

For your H, you say aging issues and out-of-whack hormones were the cause of MLC.  What you have seen and heard from your H are enough reasons for you to come to that conclusion.  That’s perfectly valid!

[MyBrainIsBroken]

The way we handle debt or job loss or bereavement is learned very early.  Not because babies learn about debt but they absorb the way difficult and positive emotions are experienced and processed first by motherr then father and others.  Right brain to right brain communication is non verbal and unconscious.  And we learn it first from our mothers.  And we use it all the time in social
Situations.

I'm reading a great book that discusses the impact a child's mother has on a young child. The book discusses the concept of "good enough" mothering and it also explains what happens when a child doesn't receive good enough mothering. I think it should be encouraging for female LBSes who are raising children to learn that they don't have to be a perfect mother, just good enough, for their children to turn out ok in spite of a father's MLC. And as somebody who didn't experience good enough mothering, I've found it has explained many of the issues that I've had to deal with.

Jasmin Lee Cori is the author. The book is called The Emotionally Absent Mother, Updated and Expanded Second Edition: How to Recognize and Heal the Invisible Effects of Childhood Emotional Neglect.

I was happy to find that my Amazon Prime membership made it possible for me to borrow the book from the Prime lending library and read it for free. The author has also written another book which I already own called Healing from Trauma: A Survivor's Guide to Understanding Your Symptoms and Reclaiming Your Life.

[Nerissa]

The way we handle debt or job loss or bereavement is learned very early.  Not because babies learn about debt but they absorb the way difficult and positive emotions are experienced and processed first by motherr then father and others.  Right brain to right brain communication is non verbal and unconscious.  And we learn it first from our mothers.  And we use it all the time in social
Situations.

I'm reading a great book that discusses the impact a child's mother has on a young child. The book discusses the concept of "good enough" mothering and it also explains what happens when a child doesn't receive good enough mothering. I think it should be encouraging for female LBSes who are raising children to learn that they don't have to be a perfect mother, just good enough, for their children to turn out ok in spite of a father's MLC. And as somebody who didn't experience good enough mothering, I've found it has explained many of the issues that I've had to deal with.

Jasmin Lee Cori is the author. The book is called The Emotionally Absent Mother, Updated and Expanded Second Edition: How to Recognize and Heal the Invisible Effects of Childhood Emotional Neglect.

I was happy to find that my Amazon Prime membership made it possible for me to borrow the book from the Prime lending library and read it for free. The author has also written another book which I already own called Healing from Trauma: A Survivor's Guide to Understanding Your Symptoms and Reclaiming Your Life.

Brain you might like to listen to these. 🤗

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c0sKY86Qmzo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lY7XOu0yi-E

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AB51V3fAAvs

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Thanks Nerissa! The links look very interesting!

[sparklestar]

I think it’s quite normal to question whether it’s MLC, I have many times and still do tbh. But when we face such unexpected and often bizarre situations it’s natural to want to find an explanation. One thing we know for sure is that unlike more ‘ordinary’ breakups most of us were unaware of any issues in our relationships. I never had a word of dissatisfaction. That’s why we refer to ‘bomb drop’ because it is as sudden as an explosion. That in itself isn’t normal unless you have someone who really is expert at never sharing their feelings. I would actually put my MLCr in that category - he was incredibly emotionally detached (avoidant personality) which came from the fact his parents were emotionally unavailable - nothing could ever be wrong, people couldn’t be ill it was a ‘keep smiling and carry on’ childhood. He also would never talk about it much so there was something else there. Many MLCrs seem to have an avoidant personality in my opinion.

I remember very early on someone advising that actually it’s better if it ISNT MLC - affairs do happen but actually the majority of affairs don’t end in the unfaithful spouse leaving (lots of research out there to read) or the bizarre behaviours we see. I would say the chances of a non MLC leaver returning are probably higher. Having someone in MLC is not the preference. Once I started having an explanation for some of the bizarre behaviours and seemingly complete personality changes before BD and then running away within a matter of days from BD, I knew something more was going on.

Before I found hero spouse I actually used the term ‘alien in my H’s body’ I thought he had been body snatched! It was just bizarre and I saw the dead, shark eyes etc. I thought I was dealing with a major depressive episode and I knew my H had issues it was only once I found this site that so many things ‘fit’ yet I was desperate for it not to be MLC. It’s the only thing that makes sense though.

There is a thread on here which is about the behaviours or things your MLCr said - it’s very useful for seeing whether what you have experienced is there. I think it’s the thing so many of us notice that how incredibly similar so many of our experiences are - MLC like other ailments is symptomatic and displays the same symptoms over and over.

[Treasur]

Sparkle, thank you so much for questioning the underpinning belief that some of us have some of the time that MLC is a 'better' label than other possible 'labels'. Tbh what struck me this morning was how truly awful it is to see someone you love unravel and implode, let alone experiencing ones own unravelling in reaction if that happens too - why would anyone wish that to be the explanation or see it as the answer they hope for? My only guess is that it is bc we believe somewhere inside us that any great unravelling can also be a place of grace and hope for an equally great repairing. Even if there is nothing at all we can do about it for someone else other than hear them if they want to talk to us I suppose.

Thank for giving us a different viewpoint than we sometimes see here. And yes, it makes complete sense to NOT want it to be MLC when you look at it from a different angle.

Slightly at a tangent, but maybe only a little one, I accidentally tripped over this interview with the man who wrote a book called The Shack https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a_YEoK72YYk . Some of you might have read the book, some of you might not much like the religious overtones. I had never heard the story of what led the author to write it...and hearing his own words about how the shack is a metaphor for the broken places in us and how he constructed a life 100 yards out from the shack so it looked perfect until it all blew up...it was like listening to a recovered MLCer imho and very humbling and quite moving to hear.

Is this what it feels like to be one of our spouses, I wonder? And he mentions his wife's suffering with real remorse and acknowledgement that both of them were destroyed on one BD day...and that their shared and individual healing took over a decade. I learned a lot from listening to him....of course a slight reflex twitch that I wish I could share some of it with my xh...but I learned a lot about my own shack and healing from it bc the guy does not soft soap it at all. So imho, worth a listen regardless of your faith views bc he talks less about God and more about the metaphorical shack....