Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Rollercoasterider on June 20, 2011, 01:28:35 PM
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Update July 2012
I started this thread in order to gain information on low-energy MLCers so that I could write an article about them. You can now read that blog post here.
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=1023
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=303.0
If your MLCer is low energy, would you please post below. I would like to compile information for writing about Low-Energy MLCers on the blog.
I don't need a lot of info because I can go to your threads for more details. I would like you to provide the following here.
- Gender
- Age at Bomb Drop
- Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore...
- Are they home?
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?) - Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living?
- Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb
Here are my current ideas about low energy MLCers
- Less likely to have a long-term affair.
- An emotional affair is more likely than the affair going physical
- Often the affair ends quickly, maybe even before Bomb
Overt Depression. - Though they may try to escape and avoid these behaviors are more internal. They are less likely to move out of the home--or if they do eventually they remain at home much longer than high energy MLCers
- They may be more aware that they are confused--though I'm merely guessing and you can tell me more
- The crisis seems milder than those who are high-energy--when you compare to other stories on the boards
The crisis may take longer (or not, I'm not sure) because without the high energy of in-fatuation they do not have as much to work against. - You, as the LBS, may question of it is MLC since high-energy is more to the sterotype.
Link back to Member groups
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1530.0
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Male
41
E,P not anymore
no living in one room (his cave) 5 mins from here , but calls here most days
3 kids, he has two step kids one living away and one at home D 26 and we have a son almost 16
He was always the pursuer...but i found myself pursuing at times and when i do he will now distance himself
His A was 11 mths b4 i found out and then on off for another 14 mths
It was physical although he has always maintained it wasn't about the sex , if you saw her you would believe that
He did have overt depression, seems to have gone covert now
He did and said many of the things that high E MLC said
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Male, 55 years old at BD, Brief affair (if what he told me is true)..I suspect may be in an EA with someone in Asia. Home was Hong Kong but he sent me back to Colorado for a year and then moved on to Brazil so we have not lived together for 2 years. In looking back, at least a year before, he started to be more distant and I had talked to him and we were supposed to work on that.
Very little communication and throughout the past two years has not acknowledged that there is anything "wrong" with him...he wasn't happy. Does not share any of his emotions. Workaholic (has not taken a vacation in over 2 years, works continuously). Does not engage in any previously enjoyed activities (ie: golf, taking care of his home). Seems to have very few friends. Distant from our daughter as well. She is 26 and lives in Canada so our whole family live in different places.
I was the pursuer prior to BD..I am now the distancer. Does he pursue? He remains connected with emails about once a week.
Exhibits suppressed anger and rage, loss of humour, in my mind seems like a 5 year old...
The crisis is not milder although he isn't the monster that others have encountered..but he is deep in what I see as a depression as his life is totally out of balance..unless he's really good at hiding, I believe he is living totally alone in a country where he doesn't speak the language (even in the office that's a problem) and being the head of the company, don't think he can find any social interactions within the office. He says it is dangerous for him to go out at night in the city in which he lives (which I believe to be true). He is now unsatisfied with his work and boss which has never been the case before.
Previously, attended mass very regularly..thinks that God wants him to be happy so that justifies what he does. He is an only child, parents are both deceased and we just have the one daughter who he seems unhappy with as well.
Hope this helps.
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I voted - low energy.
There is a thread here on low enrgy MLC-ers from last year.
The only thing I not sure I agree with is this.
They may be more aware that they are confused--though I'm merely guessing and you can tell me more
My wife does not think she is confused, neither does STILL's Husband or Trusings IMHO.
* Gender - Female
* Age at Bomb Drop - 55
* Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore... Maybe an EA? not anymore, if anyone it is parents
* Are they home? YES
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?)
* Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living? D25, S23 - living on their own
* Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb. I was the pursuer, now no pursuit .
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My H knows he's confused also knows he avoided...now he says he just is :o and is not ready to come home, i said who asked you ;)
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I voted the third choice - not sure.
Gender - Male
Age at Bomb Drop - 56
Infidelity - EA (PA??) with out of state ex-wife and ex-girlfriend - He only physically has seen either/both 1-3 times.
Are they home? No
Living with his parents.
3 kids - Boy and Girl twins - 16 when he left...17 now. D21 at college
Pursuit and Dystance - I am/was the pursuer. He is the distancer. Throughout our relationship - pre and after BD.
Limitless
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Male, late 30s.
I believe he had an EA (though he has always denied any kind of inappropriate relationship but I have enough "proof"), don't believe it was ever a PA, and I believe it lasted less than a year but have no real way of knowing right now.
He lives at home, in the basement since bomb drop. He has never officially used the D word, though has hinted at it a few times. I only ever saw monster really leading up to and just post BD. I don't get spewed on anymore and haven't for a long time.
He has become an extreme workaholic and I believe that is his way of running right now.
We have elementary aged kids. He cycles with the way he interacts with them. Initially he pretty much ignored them altogether but gradually he has been acting more like Dad again.
He used to be the pursuer in the relationship, the few years leading up to BD I was probably the pursuer.
His depression shows and he is exhausted all the time.
I have always felt his MLC was "milder" than many.
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So T IDK if you saw my post but does your H know he is confused??
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age at BD: first one at 36; second one at 47
Infidelity: May have had an emotional and physical affair when he was 36. I never knew for sure. His MLC behavior was much more high energy at that time. He had an EA prior to this last bomb drop. I found out for sure about that and he "supposedly" ended it almost a year before latest BD. I can find no evidence that it or any other affair is ongoing.
Home?: He has never left. Threatened it but has not gone.
Kids: 3; Boy, 26 and on his own; Boy, 21 and in college; girl, 12 at home.
I was always the pursuer and I still am I suppose although I try not to be.
Yes to overt depression.
Yes to confusion. Not about the sitch per se but admits to being confused over decisions that he tries to make and other issues. When I used to ask him if he was sure about us being over he would always say "I'm not sure of anything." I haven't asked in a very long time.
Yes to it being an internal struggle with him.
Yes this crisis is much milder as far as activity than the other one was.
Yes I have questioned whether or not this was MLC unlike the last time when I knew it was.
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I voted for the third choice as some of H's behaviors seem high energy while others seem low energy.
Male
Age 44 at BD
No known infidelity, now or in the past
Has lived in a small apartment since March 2008
Two children - both ours' - D20 and S17
I have been the pursuer in our relationship, but do not initiate contact now unless it is necessary concerning the children.
He will call, stop by, email. His mistress seems to be extreme sports, mainly rock climbing - which he did in high school and college and then stopped. He is an engineer/physicist. A workaholic. He was diagnosed at age 31 with psychosis and I believe he shows signs of bi-polar and obsessive/compulsive disorder though those have not been medically diagnosed.
I was his first long term relationship. He has communication issues and does not know how to relate to his own children. He has always been somewhat distant and selfish, though those two qualities have really hit their ugly extremes during his MLC.
He has been a life-long Christian, but does not seem to think abandoning his wife and children is wrong or in disobedience to God. :o :o :o However, he no longer attends church regularly and the few times he has attended with me since our separation, he either cries or all out sobs during parts of the service.
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I voted, "don't know for sure"
Male, age 47
BD - Oct. 09, Moved out Dec. 09, Filed for divorce Feb. 10, divorce final, Oct. 10
Got the typical "ILYBNILWY" speech and he was unhappy, crying, didn't know what was wrong, felt used and unappreciated
Moved in apartment (alone).
Affair with OW#1 started as EA (Oct 09) then went PA (after he moved out??) - ended around Feb. 10
Affair with OW#2 started March 10 (lived in different State) - ended June 10
Still alone as far as I know
Has said he is done and just wants to be alone
Went on a major spending spree the first 6 to 8 months
He expressed confusion and angry at everything
He has expressed his regrets in many of his decisions and actions other than the divorce
Back and forth with contact. He always initiates (now). Goes from emails, text to phone calls. Most recent contact through phone calls (over the last couple of months).
No children
Has told me about two or three months ago he still loves me and always will.
We both attended Church together and prior to our marriage. He questioned his belief in the beginning after BD, now states he reads his Bible. Still not back in Church.
He drank heavily leading up to BD and continued after. Picked up smoking habit with OW#1. Hasn't stopped
Has been under doctor's care for social anxiety (about 2 years prior BD) and continues with therapy and a number of other meds (antidepressants, etc).
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OP, he has never expressed confusion but his behavior seems to indicate he isn't sure exactly what he wants.
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My H expressed confusion at BD and the 2 1/2 month prior to leaving our home.
During that time, he went for counseling by himself.
Back in November of 2010 - he wrote me an email about his confusion and trying to figure out "who he was" and that it would take him "many months" to become the man he wanted to be.
Back in February of 2011 - after the affair was revealed - he emailed our kids to explain - and wrote about no longer being the "man who wrote" those emails to his ex-wife and not really knowing who he is.
He has shown Overt depression (or maybe it was just guilt and shame) when in front of me - but, apparently has Covert depression when around other members of his extended family (brother, sister, parents) - as he appears to be "happy."
L
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This is a very interesting topic for me as I've been thinking about it lately. My H was NO DOUBT a low-energy MLCer from BD #1 until BD #2. He became HIGH energy when he left the home.
Gender Male
Age at Bomb Drop 31
Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore...EA originally which he ended but rekindled and became physical when he left the home
Are they home? Not now but stayed for 1 year-1 1/2 after BD
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?) Lived home then at parents then to alienators
Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living?Yes S1 year D3 and D8 living at home with me
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb I was emotional pursuer and sexual distancer but that changed right before BD when I felt something pulling away in him. I became the emotional and sexual pursuer at the time. He currently initiates all phone calls (mostly kids) and conversations.
Here are my current ideas about low energy MLCers ?The cases that I have read the low energy MLCers just seem to take longer and end up doing what the HIgh energy MLCers do initially leave, or file. It seems to me perhaps they are more fearful ...and very withdrawn. I give those that have lived through many years with an at home MLCer.
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Hi
I would like to have the definition again on Low/high energy MLC or the link where to find the info
TX
Eternity
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Good idea for a thread.
Gender: F
Age at Bomb Drop: 48
Infidelity: EA with ex-bf from 30 yrs ago and ongoing AFAIK. Have there been other EA or PA? Who knows!
Home? Yes
Kids: Yes – Boys 12 and 15 at home
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: I am (was) the pursuer.
The depression is mainly covert in my wife’s case, though I think she’s cycling and has shown signs of overt depression.
I have doubted it is MLC, still do to some extent, but a lot of the classic triggers and symptoms are there: bereavements and job/career problems, friends aging/dying, EA, blaming me for her unhappiness, re-writing history, coincidence with perimenopause, etc.
She is not confused or has a problem according to her. This is why I’ve doubted MLC as a ‘diagnosis’. She seems totally rational and clear. When I made the mistake of saying I thought she was having some sort of MLC she said she must have been having one for 9 years or so and didn’t like the inference. She did struggle with turning 40 and shortly after that she had a mini meltdown that lasted a few months then we reconnected (was that BD #1?) and is obviously having physical symptoms associated with menopause
I know she has wanted to ‘run away’ as she put it and I know she looked at rental properties on the Internet a few months back, but has never done anything. She says she ‘can’t’ leave and ‘won’t’ leave the boys, but expected me to leave for her sake to give her ‘space and time’.
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I voted in-between; he seems to have traits of both. High-energy at the beginning; then more overt depression showed, then he spent several years bashing it down; didn't come clean about As for a long time; went through several jobs, has always had his high-adrenaline hobby/business, which he had long before BD; now has overt OW, seems to be more high-energy again.
I guess I always classed him as high-energy, but I've seen the lows as well. Not a clinger, although did come by here more often in the first years. Feels huge guilt, says he's just not going to feel it any more.
Seems to be putting on a great act.
If you want more from me I'll write it....
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My H is low energy.
•Age at Bomb Drop:51
•Infidelity: EA, but has never accepted that it was more than "just very good friends"
•Are they home? Yes. He's moved out to our country cottage a few times but always finds a reason to come back.
•Kids: Two daughters, now aged 15 and 20. Both live with us, but D20 spends the week away at university.
•Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: I'm the pursuer, and H is very much a distancer, even early on in our marriage. He is introverted, and says he needs his space. This need reached a high point at BD. But I am not a controller by nature, H is, like his mother.
Prior to BD he was very depressed. His way of trying to resolve his problems is more in his head than anything else, although he did have a period of suddenly going out a lot more to concerts, theatre and cinema. (First with me, then with OW.) His biggest activity now is going bicycling.
He has always known that he is confused. Since BD he has spoken about this a lot, and I have posted a lot of his thoughts here, as it seemed to give insight into the mind of a MLCer.
It has taken a long time. BD was January 2009, although the year before he started emailing OW. There were several years before that when he seemed to be intolerant of me and the girls. Although he is back home, he sleeps in his own room, and lives his own life. I have no idea whether this is permanent, or temporary. Only last weekend he was talking about buying more stuff for the cottage.
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I voted high energy, although H seems to be mild, no extremes, except for moving out
Gender: male
Age: BD1 (EA) 42 : with a lot of monster > did not leave then although he distanced himself completely for months
BD2 (PA) 45 : is physically gone now but much less emotionally than with the EA; less monster but I recognized the same characteristics from the EA - > I did not have a clue about MLC at that point)
Infidelity: PA, still ongoing
(started 9 weeks before BD2)
Living at home? NO, lives together with OW19 since BD2 (Oct2010)
Kids: S17 living at home
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics
Pursuer: before BD : me
after BD : me : much less pursuing
Distancer: before BD :H
after BD : ? , If I ask questions I get subtle monster, If I don't, H ask questions
H confirms he blocks everything, does not think about the future and avoids permanent decisions in either way, for me as well as for OW (lease for a house with OW was cancelled, as H did not want to rent a house, wanted to buy a house and stopped this as well, rent of the studio has been renewed)
H admits that he fears this will come down hard on him some day
H cycles between replay heights and overt depression. Replay heights have diminished (or he doesn't brag about them to me anymore)
Has clear moments. I have the impression H knows this is not the way to go for himself but he won't/can't give up his new life now.
H drinks heavily for years already. Told me some time ago when I asked about this that he drinks to forget
H uses coke on a regular basis, I am not sure how much he uses or what regular means.
His drinking and drugs does not seem to affect his job.
H visits us every couple of weeks and apart from that the contact goes by text and email on a weekly basis, also with S.
Sometimes he calls
Eternity
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Hi
I would like to have the definition again on Low/high energy MLC or the link where to find the info
TX
Eternity
This is the original Low Energy thread.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=303.0
Here are my current ideas about low energy MLCers
- Less likely to have a long-term affair.
- An emotional affair is more likely than the affair going physical
- Often the affair ends quickly, maybe even before Bomb
Overt Depression. - Though they may try to escape and avoid these behaviors are more internal. They are less likely to move out of the home--or if they do eventually they remain at home much longer than high energy MLCers
- They may be more aware that they are confused--though I'm merely guessing and you can tell me more
- The crisis seems milder than those who are high-energy--when you compare to other stories on the boards
The crisis may take longer (or not, I'm not sure) because without the high energy of in-fatuation they do not have as much to work against. - You, as the LBS, may question of it is MLC since high-energy is more to the sterotype.
I do not think that you can be both a high energy and a low energy MLC'er.
It is one or the other and you may see different characteristics with in the crisis that can swing over to either side.
My wife was higher energy during replay, but overall she didn't ever pull the antics of someone with an alienator.
I would think that the alienator part of this is the big key whether it is high or low energy.
A physical affair vs an emotional affair.
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Looking at that, my MLCer is much more high-energy. I've seen the overt depression, but every time that happens he frantically looks for something to fill the void. He said he was confused at the beginning, but as time goes on he seems more and more certain of his decisions. "Secure in his crisis" is how RCR put it....
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Definitely low energy.
•Gender
Male
Age at Bomb Drop
38
•Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore...•
Fantasy Only (I believe)
Are they home?
Moved out recently, was home over 2 years after BD
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?)
Lives in a rental home alone..3 blocks away
•Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living?
One adult child, twins(11) 1/2 time each place
•Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb
Pursuer...Early years MLC'er, later years me
They may be more aware that they are confused--though I'm merely guessing and you can tell me more
If he is aware that he is confused, he isn't indicating it. His actions speak of a confused man......saying he was leaving and staying for over 2 years, claiming to be a Christian, but not stepping foot in a church in 10 months nor taking his Bible when he left; no longer communicating with most of his friends.....etc.
As far as crisis goes, I think my H's is very mild compared to others. He has never expressed a "change of mind" since the initial bomb drop, but continued to take part in all family activities (school events, dinners out, dinners at the table, vacations, etc.), until him moved out. After that, no more family activities have taken place. When he left, he clearly made that mental separation, as well. Another thing I have noticed, he only spoke of wanting to divorce/separate to a very select few individuals before moving. Now that he has left, many people have contacted me because he is apparently "spreading the word" to everyone. Odd as he has always been a very private person.
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•Male, 35
•Age at BD 31 (but I knew something was wrong about 6 mths prior)
•Infidelity: Brief (4 mths, she moved away and did pop up again a year later, but only visited. Neither had anything nice to say about the other, neither had respect for the other very degrading situation. I do not think anything else has happened, maybe one more but I have no substantial proof / evidence.)
•Are they home? He moved out but comes over nearly everyday and will sleep at home for weeks / months at a time with no interruption, but then cycles back to missing a few days here and there. The longest we did not see each other in four years is 11 days.)
If not, where are they living? Alone in an apartment. Does not call it home, calls it "over there" "the apartment", calls our home "the house", has mentioned to family members it is time for him to move home, yet has not done so yet. Last time he mentioned moving home was January 2010, that I know of.
•Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living?
Yes, S14, D12, S7, S5 Live home with me
•Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb
We both pursue and distance, I think I probably pursue a little more. But when I distance he will pursue after a few days. Sort of like he is checking to make sure I am still there.
My H is a workaholic. He works 6 days a week sometimes he would work seven days a week for weeks on end. I know he is not satisfied with his job and has tried to get a new one but that has not worked out, plus he cares for the kids while I work and that also makes it difficult.
He drinks a lot. Started drinking liquor within this crisis. Before he was just a beer drinker. He goes through times of wanting to work out and then stop drinking but then starts up again. He also smokes.
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Gender: Female
Age at Bomb Drop: 45
Infidelity: Started as emotional, progressed to physical, not sure about now.
Are they home? Moved out shortly after BD. She has moved far away now. I'm not sure if she's living with an alienator or not. I suspect she is.
Children: Two teenage boys, they were 14 and 17 when she left, now they are 17 and 19. They both live with me.
Pursuer vs. Distancer: I pursued and she distanced herself from the family for about a year. I stopped pursuing and she has continued to move farther away.
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Gender: Male
Age at Bomb Drop: 48
Infidelity: Started as emotional. They met on the bus and were friends for 2 years. Progressed to physical. She was lonely and willing had sex with him at her home once a week for 11 months. Affair is over, as both spouses found out.
Are they home? Yes, he is physically home.
Children: Three boys, they are 15, 12 and 11.
Pursuer vs. Distancer: Can we both be distancers? He pursued our initial relationship, but over time the only thing he really pursued was more sex! He is very quiet by nature. Has anxiety and seems slightly depressed all the time. Has been on anti depres. for as long as I've know him. Takes meds for anxiety as needed.
I do not know if he is aware that he's confused. Blames affair on lack of sex. Does not seem remorseful. Has not exhibited Monster behavior. Just has not taken responsibility for anything and not sure if he wants a relationship with me. An empty shell.
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I think mine is a type of low energy...
Gender - Male
•Age at Bomb Drop - 49
•Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore... Brief EA (I think) but now seems to have a very close emotional link to younger half sister
•Are they home? No
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?) Lives with elderly aunt (83 years old,older than his father would be if alive)
•Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living? Yes, son 19, son 17 and daughter 16, all living with me
•Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb
Now: I am trying hard to be a distancer but tend towards pursuit and he is definitely a distancer now!
pre BD: I was a distancer and I pursued if I felt him distancing, he was a nice affectionate pursuer most of the time.
Some of his replay antics seem to be high energy in spurts, like buying on impulse, partying for short periods (two or three days running and then nothing). He took quite a while to move out and said he was very confused at the beginning, in fact he said that he was not going to say anything about it (BD speech) until after Christmas and New Year. Nowadays he says he is 'sure' about what he is doing and seems to have a 'plan' to get level financially and then move on with his life... He also says he is 'happy' with himself and that this is the way it has to be. He seems to be settling a little - low energy, I suppose :-\
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Gender: Male
Age at Bomb drop: 48
Infidelity: Brief physical affair, also an emotional affair with another women. Both appeared over in October 2009.
Home or not: Was home until June 11 (had come and gone for a few days at a time, always returned). Has now been out since June 11 and says wants 6 month separation and then file in January 2012.
Kids: 1 daughter, age 18
Pursuit and Distance dynamics: I am mostly the pursuer, and H is the distancer. Although the dynamic changed from time to time. When I detached more, H became more pursuant. Has been more pursuant since he moved out.
H has periods of high energy (monster) followed by calm periods (low energy), but I see him mostly as low energy. Before BD had noticed some further distancing, but throughout relationship, he was more distant, but changed when it seemed I would back off.
Says he is happier than he has been in 2 years now. Says he "will never live with me again". Yet, he is back to calling and texting frequently. I reply with polite response, but am not initiating any communication. Will speak to him about finances, and then plan to go completely NC.
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Gender: Female
Age at Bomb Drop 43
Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore...: EA still going strong
Are they home? Yes
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?)
Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living? Two daughters Ages 15 and 11 both at home
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb I am the Pursuer, still pursuer but less intense.
Wife has stated she is confused, her mind is wrong that she does not think like a 44 year old woman.
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Gender: Male
Age at BD: 37
Infidelity Physical, still ongoing.
Are they home: spends most nights here. Other nights at alienator
Kids: 5 daughters at home
Pursuit and distance: At BD I became pursuer. previously I was most likely the distancer. Now he is pusuing a little more.
Knows he's confused and that the life he is in can't be sustained.
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High Energy Mlcer here
Gender: Male
Age at Bomb Drop 42
Infidelity: Emotional, Physical: PA still going strong ( right now EA as they do not live in the same State )
Are they home? Yes
Moved out, rented Apt with Ow..Now home, Still with OW
Kids: Yes D13
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb I am the Pursuer, still pursuer but less intense.
Husband states that he will Marry Ow, She will return to live in Cali again once H is settled back in our home
and myself and my D13 are gone. Still thinks Ow is his future.
Not alot of Monster, lots of ILY's directly after BD. Stated he Missed me even while living with Ow.
Has been nice most of the time. Going on 10 months w/ Ow
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* Gender: Male
* Age at Bomb Drop: 55
* Infidelity: I suspect Emotional pre-BD and Physical post-BD, don't have a clue if it's still going on because we don't speak all that often (maybe once a month) and are just so plain polite to each other when we do speak.
* Are they home? No, moved in with friends for 9 months, then bought his own place an hour away.
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?) Living in a purchased condo, don't know if living with alienator, but if I had to guess, I'd say no.
* Kids: S28 lives an hour away and D26 lives an hour away. Both have lost all respect for him.
* Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: H was the pursuer pre-BD, I pursued for 6 months after BD, now we both seem to be distancers!
H was definitely high-energy at beginning. At BD, first thing out of his mouth was he wanted a divorce and was leaving same day. ILYBNILWY and needed freedom. Lots of anger and monster spew for 6 months or so (hmmm...correlates with me pursuing) interspersed with lovely conversations like we were best friends as long as I didn't speak about relationship. Occasionally spoke of divorce until October, but hasn't brought it up since then. After my R talk stopped and I stopped pursuing, H seemed to become low energy. Really don't know where he's at in the tunnel nor do I know if OW is in the picture. I think I'm the Queen of Limboland ???
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This is more to RCR and HB if she ever comes back but anyone else can respond to this too.
I have been thinking a lot about this low-energy MLC'er and how it relates to the Stages of MLC.
RCR writes somewhere that if it is under 2 years that they are in replay.(and DGU plays that song over and over) (nickel DGU)
So now with many low-energy mlc'ers there is no alienator and the stages of mlc can seem to go rapidly through the cycle.
Until they get to depression withdrawal stage when everything comes grinding to a halt.
Now one of my theories is that what we have seen as progressing through the different stages of MLC is not as it seems.
I believe that there may be a Fantasy alienator involved with the MLC'er.
This is not a REAL person.
But a made up person that the MLC'er is having an affair with.
My wife reads all sorts of those trashy romance novels.
I would not be surprised if she has fallen in love with one of the characters.
Of course since I am not inside her head how would I know.
Ready's wife has a real life fantasy guy that she has never met and lives 6000 miles away.
Still's husband seems to be in love with some students of his that he has never pushed further along.
Trusting's husband I have no idea about but I am going to guess that he has some fantasy person too.
So maybe my point is that all these MLC'ers who are two years or less ARE still in replay.
With a Fantasy person.
Anyways this has been running around in my head for a while and I decided to write it down and see who responds.
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OP, my H's (suspected) OW EA lives in a different state and he has not gone there at all and I have no reason to suspect she has been here to visit ever. Based on what I know about her, who she is, and what I know about my H, I do think it was at least in part a "fantasy" relationship on his part.
BTW, no real reason now to think they are still in contact, at least not like they were, but honestly have no idea.
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I guess what I am thinking is that he may not be in contact IRL but the question is the fantasy still going on inside his head.
This I realize is mind reading but I am trying to see if my theory has any merit.
Thank you for adding in your piece to the puzzle.
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Very interesting thoughts, OP. I've been sort of wondering along those same lines lately. In the beginning my ex hubby had two OW's (back to back). He seemed to be on a mission. He was wide open for at least 6 to 9 months or so. Both his affairs ended very quickly. That was a year ago now. I do not know if he is with anybody else now (don't think so) but he has seemed somewhat "better" in the last few months or so. He has communicated with me in person more and on the phone. We are approaching the two year post BD so maybe that has something to do with his change. I'm just not sure. I know, it doesn't really matter. Maybe my ex's fantasy doesn't involve another woman.........maybe it just a fantasy life he's looking for. Does that sound crazy?
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OP, I wonder if that has the affect of dragging some aspects of replay out even longer? Because if the fantasy REALLY is a fantasy, then they never have the fantasy destroyed by the reality of a real person.
My H's OW was a fantasy for him when I discovered the affair. Clandestine, hidden from everyone he knew, they lived in a true bubble where they had stolen moments. Then they moved in together. They have been together for 7 months now and I don't believe that it has been a 7 month perfect fantasy (not that he shows any signs of wanting out either).
I don't know what could "end" a fantasy that is not real. I wonder in that situation if it might be almost better to walk away from them? Just thinking outloud here, don't have an answer. Because then, especially if the fantasy is a fictional character in a book, they are left with the reality of being alone with nothing BUT a fantasy and then maybe eventually the loneliness and the fact that a fantasy with NO reality does not actually provide true companionship would force them to start moving a little through the tunnel??
Having said that, I have no idea if being in a "real" R with OW has brought H any closer to moving through his tunnel. So who knows.
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This is more to RCR and HB if she ever comes back but anyone else can respond to this too.
I have been thinking a lot about this low-energy MLC'er and how it relates to the Stages of MLC.
RCR writes somewhere that if it is under 2 years that they are in replay.(and DGU plays that song over and over) (nickel DGU)
So now with many low-energy mlc'ers there is no alienator and the stages of mlc can seem to go rapidly through the cycle.
Until they get to depression withdrawal stage when everything comes grinding to a halt.
Now one of my theories is that what we have seen as progressing through the different stages of MLC is not as it seems.
I believe that there may be a Fantasy alienator involved with the MLC'er.
This is not a REAL person.
But a made up person that the MLC'er is having an affair with.
My wife reads all sorts of those trashy romance novels.
I would not be surprised if she has fallen in love with one of the characters.
Of course since I am not inside her head how would I know.
Ready's wife has a real life fantasy guy that she has never met and lives 6000 miles away.
Still's husband seems to be in love with some students of his that he has never pushed further along.
Trusting's husband I have no idea about but I am going to guess that he has some fantasy person too.
So maybe my point is that all these MLC'ers who are two years or less ARE still in replay.
With a Fantasy person.
Anyways this has been running around in my head for a while and I decided to write it down and see who responds.
Think of story--a book or movie--there is a hero and a villain. The hero is the main character whether good or evil. Now think of the villain. Tell the story of Titanic. Now in the movie there was a guy running around with a gun. But who was the real villain. Ah, trick question, so I will rephrase. What was the real villain? It was the disaster--iceberg, sinking ship, ocean...the villain was not a person. In the movie The Perfect Storm the storm was the villain.
In the MLC script the alienator is the villain. But that does not mean the alienator has to be a person--it just usually works out that way. Some people have affairs with their career or it is platonic friends that alienate a couple apart. Definitely fantasy and in the case of low-energy MLCers the alienator the alienator is more likely to be a fantasy or some other type of alienation than it is for high-energy MLCers.
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OP, I don't have facts, just what I have gotten through what I know about them and some bits and pieces I have gathered to confirm, but I do believe that H getting in contact with (suspected) OW was based on a fantasy in his head at the time.
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RCR
Thanks for that, it is kind of what I have been thinking but I wanted to get it written down.
OP, I wonder if that has the affect of dragging some aspects of replay out even longer? Because if the fantasy REALLY is a fantasy, then they never have the fantasy destroyed by the reality of a real person.
Absolutely, that is why the low energy mlcers take so long.
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I'm going to throw something out there and see if it sticks.
These MLcer's seem to think that their happiness should have come from their spouses.
In real life we the LBS' know we aren't perfect and have accepted ourselves, warts and all.
Since they figured out that we CAN'T make them happy, they look for happiness someplace else,
sticking with the flawed idea that happiness comes from the outside. Reply, new relationships,
cars, Harleys, you name it. Until they figure out that what they are looking for comes from the
inside, they are stuck. Why do they have this flawed idea of happiness? FOO, IMO. Probably
never shown love just for who they are, only for their looks, or what they can do.
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Interesting-My H was having an affair since last summer I think. Moved in together in our apartment where he worked during the week
in December. I only know that because she posted her change of address on her FB page. ::) Anyway, their affair was totally secret
from everyone they worked with until I exposed them mid April. H seemed happy during the time it was all a big secret although
I believe he let his mother know what was going on last fall. To think she supported him. >:( Anyway, I have had NC since I
outed them out until a week ago. Since then I have talked to him 4 times and he is coming down tomorrow to see our S. I dread it.
Anyway, he doesn't sound happy and he says he is tired all the time, works more than ever, his back hurts ect, up
every hour, ect... I think that the
excitement kind of disappeared once I exposed them. Now it is just a normal relationship. He does try to defend her to me which
totally pisses me off. I told him do never ever defend her to me and that I wish to never speak of her. I won't even address her
by her name. I think I read that when the affair because public and everyone finds out, the relationship changes. Does anyone
know if I am correct about this? Why is it when it the relationship is a secret, they seem happier, more energy ect. but then once
it becomes public, it just becomes a normal everyday relationship?
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Hearbroken,
My ex hubby's affair was the same way.........once it was exposed it fizzled out........fast. Everybody at his work place knew about it (with a coworker). She ended up quitting her job.......couldn't handle the pressure, I suppose. Once they were exposed the affair ended........then my ex immediately hooked up with yet another one but a distant one (in another State) so he thought it could be kept secret. I discovered it quick and exposed that one as well. It also ended very quickly. He had his two affairs start and end within an 8 month period. To answer your question, I think it is the excitement that the secrecy hightens in them. They are looking for a quick fix and a high. Once it's exposed it's not that thrilling for them. That's my two cents.
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OP,
Interesting topic.
I'm sure that most know my story....
I have the MLCer who lives in the guest room with his parents.
For a long time, I thought there was NO alienator - as there was absolutely no sign or proof that one existed.
Then he started communicating with an ex high school girlfriend via emails and texts (maybe skype). Ended up she was OW #2. This culminated in a week long trip he took with her. Shortly after this trip - she unfriended him on FB and the relationship (whatever it was) was over. I heard through the grapevine that he found her to be "too argumentative."
Then I find out about OW#1 (Ex-wife) through emails (from March 2010) professing his "love" and that he plans to divorce me to be with her. She also lives in the same state as OW #2 (Maybe he could do a 2 for 1 when he visited??)
If I can believe what he says (I know that is doubtful). This was a "fantasy" in his head and not real. That she encouraged him to work on this marriage. That it had been over for more than 9 months (as of February of this year). I believe that he only physically was with her for 1 weekend back in August of'09 (He admitted - but claimed it was "platonic.")
So. Who the heck knows....but I believe that this "love" he has for her is more of a fantasy in his head. I believe that he pursued the heck out of her. I think she may have enjoyed the attention (I believe that she was recently divorced) - but had little real interest in him - since he has nothing (financially) to offer her.
So. If this is a fantasy in his head - that I think he continues to feed - this fits somewhat into what OP has written. My H appears to be more Overtly depressed than the MLCers described on this website. (Although he may be strutting his stuff - to others - as I don't see him). I know that when he sees the kids - it is clear that he is depressed and/or filled with guilt and shame. I do not believe he has true remorse (except for the part about being "caught.")
He continues to see a counselor (1/month), he avoids, he hides....he may still be carrying on with OW#1 via a long distance affair - but makes no moves to see her (visit her State) or move to be with her.
Low energy? I don't know. So far the new life that he wanted so badly - seems to have little in it except an escape from responsibility.
Limitless
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LoveMyMan-I wish my H's relationship fizzled out after I exposed them but it hasn't. They are still living together. From what I know,
he met her at a pizza joint she worked at last summer. She must have flirted or something with him. Then he hired her at one of the auto
dealerships in Sept. or Oct.. By Dec. she moved in with him in our apt.. It's just so shocking he can give up me, his wife of 24 years
for some bimbo he has only known for 6 months. Last week he was defending her to me. I didn't bring her up, he did trying to tell me
she was a good mother, that her baby died. She lost custody of the other one who is now 17. I think he was trying to tell me she is a
good mother so I would let our S be around her. NEVER, not happening. How could he even ask that of me knowing her history? He
is so blind. I thought these relationships lasted 1-2 years before they fizzled out. I would love to spy on them. I know I shouldn't care
but just once would be fun. And even though I do not want to see him tomorrow, I can't wait to see what he looks like. ;D He is
going to see a really skinny wife, not that I was heavy before. Size 5/6 and now I am a size 0 or 00. ;) I bet H will have
no comment. I hope he got fatter! ;D ;D :o ;D ;D There are these
hot chips that are fattening that he loves. For some reason he can't get them in the town where they live so I think I will go buy him
a case tonight. ;D ;D
Oh, I really must stop these thoughts of mine but at least I am getting a laugh. haha
L - I think that is what my H was thinking too. If he left us, he was getting rid of all responsiblilty for me and our S.
He has found out that is not true.
He still has not given me any money and it's been almost 2 months.
I have talked with him alot this past week and he told me to add up how much I need
until our court date in August and give it to my Atty and his Atty will call my Atty on Tuesday. Finally! :) So hopefully
next week I will finally have some money.
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Heartbroken,
I'm glad your H is starting to thaw regarding the money issue.
Let your lawyer know how much $ you need ASAP. Get the cash. You need to be able to take care of you and your Son.
Regarding the fizzling of the OW/MLCer relationship. This doesn't happen overnight. Sometimes it will - but many times it won't. Just because you don't see it falling apart - doesn't mean that it's not. Sometimes the "relationship" carries on longer than it should - as the OW or the MLCer doesn't want to acknowledge that they made a mistake. Easier to just let it be.
Limitless
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OP,
I think you have some very interesting thoughts which I have also wondered. I agree that my Low Energy MLC'er went through the first few stages very rapidly. Replay was less that a year and a half. I think he has been in depression/withdrawal for well over a year now.
I believe, without a doubt, that my H has a fantasy OW. I actually think she is an eclectic perfect woman with all the various aspects that he would find ideal in one woman. His extreme arrogance about his life with "puffed out chest" and sarcastic narcissistic remarks makes him appear like a rooster in the hen house.
His new behavior, which was always non-existent, is telling everyone/anyone about our situation. I have had more people in the last month offer me concern because my H has told them how bad things have been ( :o :o :o) and we are now separated. It is like he is trying to lay this groundwork for his next phase in life. If I didn't know better, I would say he is getting closer and closer to acting on the obtaining of his fantasy woman.
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Still,
I am curious why or how you came to the conclusion that your H finished Replay in a year and a half.
If he has moved out and may, at this time, be setting up to finally have his affair with the "perfect" woman (is there such a thing?) - wouldn't that still be Replay?
What makes me curious about your H is that he is just so mean and cruel (similar to OP's wife) - in that he seems to want to hurt or injure you (emotionally).
My H - even though he abandoned the family - didn't seem to want to "hurt" me - except on the day he moved out and the next month or so afterwards. Those were the only times I really saw "Monster." Otherwise, he seems to want me to have a good life.....wants me to go places, do things. Wants to fix things that break around the house (never actually finish - but makes a meager effort). And, my H is in FULL REPLAY right now (13 months post BD).
L
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Gender: Male
Age at BD= 52
EA started 2 weeks before BD
PA started at BD (2-14-11)
Lives at OWs since BD
Ds 9 and 11
Before BD H was pursuer
I was distancer busy w/ work I pay all bills
Now I try never to pursue EVER (it's hard) but i do it.
H clingy boomerang but distancer
He moves so slowly through out his lifetime people want to smack him. He must be Low energy. I'm not sure sometimes he seems jumpy and nervous and running wide eyed. Is that high energy? The one thing I KNOW is that he LOVES me he always has. I also KNOW he didn't cheat until BD. He told me that and I all ready knew he wouldn't have. He tried to be a stay at home Dad but his vicodin kept causing him to be less than successful. Sleeps on couch..back hurts,sinus hurts blah blah blah complaining ALL THE TIME.
Depressed down the basement for at least 2 or 3 years. Concerned with looks,weight,zits and Vitamin World. Clean and sober like me for over 10 years. Then he went back to vicodin and alcohol and slid into OW R. His mother had been staying with us and he was taking care of her. She is 93 years old. She told him he Lost the family business(a motel) and she made him feel like s**t. She went to Florida for 3 mos and when I said she could come back in the spring He Bolted for OW......He spends no money from our joint acct. Makes hardly any at his little job(Limo runs) He only uses our cellphone companions to call me and the Ds or his Mom or get a haircut. He says he has no friends except me. still says that. He has shown kindness and caring for me except for the OW residence. he took furniture a few weeks ago but says I can have anything I like back. Did I mention OW is a Bowser and I am cute ;D I couldn't help it. He is textbook MLC. I really feel for him. The jerk. When he wakes up he is gonna be so mad at himself. This I KNOW also. Let me know if he's high or low MLC? Thanks
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Still,
I am curious why or how you came to the conclusion that your H finished Replay in a year and a half.
If he has moved out and may, at this time, be setting up to finally have his affair with the "perfect" woman (is there such a thing?) - wouldn't that still be Replay?
L,
That is a great question.
My H's replay behaviors were very specific. For that period of time, he attended numerous concerts (sometimes traveling 4 hours one way), secretly drank, trained excessively, watched ultimate fighting by the hours (NEVER watched before), starting hanging with a more outgoing crowd, used slang constantly, colored his facial hair, lost a great deal of weight, and seemed to never sleep (bed at 2:00-3:00 up by 6:00).
That seemed to stop abruptly early last year. He then began to show many signs of extreme depression. He would zone at the television, sit in one place for hours, no longer did any care of the house, worked excessive hours, didn't want anyone around, completely irritated by family/friends/finances, couldn't handle the "kid stuff" would need to leave because of the anxiety it caused. It was almost the exact opposite of the previous 18 months.
Still, he believed/believes that I am the root of the problem. He left because he could no longer stay in this house and be so miserable. Since he has left, he has gone through periods of "monster", periods of low, lots of stopping by to pick up things (though never attempting to reconnect with me), the home he lives in is not completed and is not indicative of a "happy" man.
These are the conclusions I have drawn for myself.
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Still,
Thank you for the explanation.
Since your H lived at home for so long, you have had the "advantage" of seeing his actions first hand. (Notice that "advantage" is in quotes. No real advantage. I believe that you have had much pain).
In my H - I NEVER see him. So, I cannot judge his Replay activity. Who knows? I am thinking that I will see a change in him - when I see his actions and activity with our kids change. Maybe not, but that is what I think.
Again, who knows?
Thanks for the explanation. I can see how and why you believe that Replay has finished.
I wonder about the ones who don't leave the home or take such a long time to leave. Are these MLCer's angrier? Or is it because the LBS is around the MLCer so much - that the Monster is easy to see?
L
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RCR
Thanks for that, it is kind of what I have been thinking but I wanted to get it written down.
OP, I wonder if that has the affect of dragging some aspects of replay out even longer? Because if the fantasy REALLY is a fantasy, then they never have the fantasy destroyed by the reality of a real person.
Absolutely, that is why the low energy mlcers take so long.
This kind of worries me. I wonder about this for my H. After three years of not seeing the alienator he will be visiting near where she lives. He told me there is a possibility he might see her. She even told me long long ago before leaving that she thinks my H is living in a fantasy.
Well, I am still praying this is coming to an end for him. Something in changing I just cant exactly put my finger on it but I have to keep hope and faith it is for the best for our family.
We do need more info on the low energy MLC.
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Maybe my H fits into the low energy and at the same time clinging boomerang type.
Male, 44 at BD
EA with 32 y/o,from out of the country. Hired her to help out with a research site in her country, then helped her get a post-grad here in the US. Was typically knight in shining armor, helping her with her academic work. I believe active EA for 3-4 months, then broke off contact, then resumed contact till present, mostly phone/texting. recently said his feelings for OW are waning, that I was right, it is just an infatuation
Never left home. Bomb drop was first time he said he wanted a divorce, but quickly changed his mind. Would bring up D every now and then, but when I would say OK, would not do anything, or start acting like nothing is wrong. Lately said he is staying and not leaving, that he has come to the point that he realizes he cannot give up everything, but still says he does not feel anything for me, that he feels stuck. He cannot abandon his family, and also, he feels that he cannot break his vows. Wants to stay in the marriage but does not want to work for the marriage.
Devoted father. Does all his responsibilities as a husband. Cooks, cleans, does our finances, makes sure we have family vacations, altough very controlling.
Knows he is confused. Knows he is in MLC - self diagnosed from the start. Knows what makes him worse, better, and what I do that ticks him off. very much textbook case in that sense.
So what do you think? agree with me?
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I believe I have a low-energy MLCer
Age:49
Age at BD: 48
EA, says that they are just friends, I believe he has 2 "friends.
Still lives at home
2 kid- d22, not living at home D-17 still at home and I have a son 34 not living at home.
In the beginning of our relationship he was the pursuer, afte DB I was, not no one is.
Don't know for sure this is MLC. Got the ILYBINILWY speech, says that I was controlling and treated him like a child. Only saw monster when I crossed his boundries, spooping, finding out about OW. Has said that he wants to stay together until d graduates high school 5/2012. Has told me that he was moving out of bedroom hasn't. Haven't seem monster for a couple months now and no talk of divorce.
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Confused, it definitely sounds like the typical MLC MO. I bumped the low energy thread for you to read through and see if that helps.
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Gender: Female
Age at Bomb Drop: 10/2008 (40), was sick for 2yr then 04/2011 (42)
Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore...PA that continued to EA, brief 3mo or so, not sure if any others
Are they home? at home, traveling frequently back to home town for party/validation
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?) never lived with alienator
Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living? Yes, S23 S17 S9 and S9 living with us; S21 and D19 at college
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb: I tried pursing for awhile until remember the 180, W pursues at times unless I get a truth dart in and she distances for weeks. She distanced after bomb drop but used sex to keep connection with me. Still does at this point and I rarely pursue.
Never got the ILYBINILWY but might as well have. Says I am boring and wouldn't allow friends over to house (rewriting history of MLC script). Rarely see monster unless I give truth darts then monster comes out. Was going to move out but BF changed her MLCer mind is still in bedroom, some intimacy.
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High energy MLCer on steroids
Gender Female
Age at Bomb Drop 47 (turned 48 month later). At BD/admission of infidelity, she spoke of being confused.
Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore... yes ongoing
Are they home? No
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?) With alienator
Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living? Yes. D22, S19. D22 at university, S19 back home after several months travelling.
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb During relationship/marriage pursuing was mutual. Post BD: no pursuing, great deal of distance. At BD she very generously said, "we can still be friends". :o Seems to have changed her mind. Was it something I said?
honour
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Oh you know I don't quite know where Dearheart slots.
A CB although he hasn't 'clung' to me for about a year. None of the I love you or anything.
He transferred it to the the house, animals and started on the girls lol.
Started of high energy, moved to low and I think he has stayed pretty consistent although just lately the clothes buying has ramped up again and fixing his car.
So who knows.
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- Gender
- Age at Bomb Drop
- Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore...
- Are they home?
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?) - Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living?
- Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb
Male
35
None
Yes
No
My H was the pursuer both pre-Bomb and now; however, for many months after Bomb, my H majorly distanced himself from me
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Before reading this I thought low-energy. Now I believe high-engery!!
Gender: male
Age at BD: 59
Infidelity: for the one time in the beginning that I asked they are "just friends". After 2 years plus, of course I don't believe that. He has not talked to either of our sons about her or our sitch.
Living with alienator: yes
Children: 2 boys ages 42 and 39
I have considered myself the pursuer much to my embarrassment although I backed off in the last six months.
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/list] Here are my current ideas about low energy MLCers
- Less likely to have a long-term affair.
- An emotional affair is more likely than the affair going physical
- Often the affair ends quickly, maybe even before Bomb
Overt Depression. - Though they may try to escape and avoid these behaviors are more internal. They are less likely to move out of the home--or if they do eventually they remain at home much longer than high energy MLCers
- They may be more aware that they are confused--though I'm merely guessing and you can tell me more
- The crisis seems milder than those who are high-energy--when you compare to other stories on the boards
The crisis may take longer (or not, I'm not sure) because without the high energy of in-fatuation they do not have as much to work against. - You, as the LBS, may question of it is MLC since high-energy is more to the sterotype.
As this has been bumped up....and I answered the questions last year......I wanted to comment a bit on what I think as time has passed.......
I continue to see my H as a Low Energy MLCer.....He has had OW (I believe 3/Maybe only 2) - which, it appears, haven't "worked out."
I believe his 1st affair (EA/PA??) - ended before BD...although I believe he continued to pursue for a time after that. 2nd OW (another long distance "relationship" - high school girlfriend) began and ended in 3 to 4 months. 3rd OW (current???) - I'm not sure...but he continues to live with his parents and live the life of a young, unattached, bachelor.......
He has shown Overt signs of depression. Crying in front of the kids....seeing a counselor - acknowledging that he is confused.....and referring to himself as "damaged goods."
He left the house 2.5 months after BD (August, 2010) - but, it he had already "decided" to divorce me in March of 2010. He finally filed in October 2011....but has not made any progress in finalizing to date.
Not very much High Energy activity - that anyone can really see....(besides running up debt).
The crisis may take longer? Great! I do get the feeling like he isn't moving forward anytime soon (but what do I know?)
Yes. I have many times questioned whether it was MLC (as opposed to a Walk Away Spouse).....I guess the treatment (ignoring) of our kids is one of the biggest confirmations of MLC for me. Even if he was merely a Walk Away Spouse - I believe that he would have maintained contact and relationships with the kids.........as he left me - not them (his words...and more of the MLC script).
Limitless
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Limitless,
I agree with you on all you said and then some. My exH appeared to be extremely High Energy for the first 8 months or so. He took off like his butt was on fire. He already had OW/EA when I got the ILYBNILWY BD speech. He left two months later (Dec. 09). His EA went PA and it only lasted a few months........over as soon as the word got around. Then he started up with another one, high school classmate, through FB. She lived in another State but we have vacation property near her so it worked out for him to see her every other weekend. That affair started in March but ended in May. The whole time (I believe) he knew it was wrong but couldn't stop himself. He also spent money like crazy....4 vehicles and 8 motorcycles, plus fully furnished apartment, clothes, etc. He "dated" a few other women shortly after our divorce was final. Not sure if he is currently seeing anybody or not. He lost his job the end of June, 2011, failed suicide attempt July, 2011. He's under a doctor's care (therapy) and different medication which seems to have helped so much. He was working part time at a sporting goods store but recently (January, 2012) started a job in a legal office which seems to also work good for him. As you may or may not know, he has talked to me on the phone at least 4 times (every other week or so) for the past couple of months. I have not seen him face to face since last August. I now believe he may be "Low Energy"...........just seems to be coasting.
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I agree with OP that if there is not real alienator, there is a fantasy one, being it a person or an activity.
StandandDeliver, I don’t think a fantasy person can drag some of replay aspects even longer than a non fantasy person. My husband has been in replay for about six years (I’m counting since he got involved with OW1, that was months before he left/BD), is on his second OW and there are no signs of replaying behaviour calming down. The length of the replay stage has, for me, more to do with the issues the MCLer is facing/running from facing than with being a High or Low Energy MCLer.
Must say I’m not certain if we can consider Low Energy MCLer anyone with the energy/capacity to sustain a relationship with OW/OM that involves physical affair, and other activities, like weekend or holidays; moving out of the house, or living between home OW/OM and/or their own place. So I’m not certain Shant’s husband is a Low Energy MCLer… a moderate energy one, perhaps?...
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Yep Anne he's not as high energy as he was. Man the running he did. But energy wise he slipped between lines. Lol
Clinging yes but high or low I have no clue. No real financial damage done, he spends not huge amounts but is at present upping it again.
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Shant, I think some, if not all of the former super high, or high energy ones, will, at a point, loose part of that mega energy. But it may take years for them to be on a slower pace.
I got one of those that have done it all, financial damage, several OW, living with other woman, become a wreck (but still in high energy mode), went from clingy boomerang to boomerang to vanisher. Ok, he had not really done it all. So far, for all I know, OW2 has not become pregnant. ::)
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After reading all of this, I think my mlcer is a low energy mlcer.
gender: male
age at bd: 36
ea or pa: no proof of that, although he's very keen on his phone-privacy
living: still at home, threatend to leave when I had R talk with him. I don't initiate R talk anymore, so he hasn't talked about leaving anymore.
kids: no kids
pursuer: before and afterbd: me. especially now, he's withdrawn completely and hardly even speaks to me.
He knows he is confused, he went to see a lifecoach before bd and has said he's confused after bd. Still seeing a therapist to help him deal with the issues. he just doesn't want to talk about it to me in any way.
Jip
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My H's replay behaviors were very specific. For that period of time, he attended numerous concerts (sometimes traveling 4 hours one way), secretly drank, trained excessively, watched ultimate fighting by the hours (NEVER watched before), starting hanging with a more outgoing crowd, used slang constantly, colored his facial hair, lost a great deal of weight, and seemed to never sleep (bed at 2:00-3:00 up by 6:00).
That seemed to stop abruptly early last year. He then began to show many signs of extreme depression. He would zone at the television, sit in one place for hours, no longer did any care of the house, worked excessive hours, didn't want anyone around, completely irritated by family/friends/finances, couldn't handle the "kid stuff" would need to leave because of the anxiety it caused. It was almost the exact opposite of the previous 18 months.
Still, he believed/believes that I am the root of the problem. He left because he could no longer stay in this house and be so miserable. Since he has left, he has gone through periods of "monster", periods of low, lots of stopping by to pick up things (though never attempting to reconnect with me), the home he lives in is not completed and is not indicative of a "happy" man.
These are the conclusions I have drawn for myself.
Funny, my situation is almost the same. Replay behavior has stopped I think. In the beginning H was like a teenager. Only parting, going to concerts, used slang, drank a lot, hanging out 'with my new friends' as he once yelled at me. Things like that. D21 once said to me he looked like a child.
Since a few weeks his behavior has changed. Shows much more responsibility, comes home for diner, wants to go out with us as a family, involves more and more me in his life. But....still lives with OW. So in that sense he must still be in Replay. She remains a secret. She never accompanies him when he visits our mutual friends or business events as he always sends me a pictures of where he is or who he visits. The only thing he told me about her that there is an enormous distance between them, that he wants to be free without responsibilities. And in that sense they do not have a relation. I think she is using H cause she doesn't want to be alone, and H is using her so he has a place to live.
Last week he admitted that I am not his problem, but that he has a problem (feels too responsible for everything, feelings of guilt and not able to see his own boundaries) and that we had a lot of talking to do. I know where this feelings comes from. It was the way he was brought up by his parents who were severely traumatized in Japanese camps during WWII. But to tell him that......
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Gender - Female
Age at Bomb Drop - 42
Infidelity: Emotional, Physical, None, brief, still ongoing, not anymore... Emotional
Are they home? Currently in marital home, but will be moving out soon
If not, where are they living (in particular, are they living with the alienator?) Since we are D, she is finding an apartment (with the kids)
Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living? Yes 8 and 10, live with her.
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb - I was the pursuer at BD, but no pursuit now.
I believe I have a Low Energy MLCer. There is no alienator that I am aware of at this point. She appears content when I do see her. She doesn't 'DO' much. She stays home, watching TV or on computer as per kids. She doesn't work.
There does not appear to be movement for many months. Same position for say 1 year. No active signs of REPLAY, partying, drinking, having fun etc.
I do question MLC vs WAS. She still cares for the kids. Almost everything appears to be the same as if we were married, except I am not there. In instances of rare contact, she appears to be angry and blames me for her unhappiness, counts my many flaws and points to them as reason for her unhappiness.
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Gender - Male
Age at Bomb Drop - 44
Infidelity: He says there has never been nor is there now ow. I have nothing to say otherwise
Are they home? No lives with his parents
Kids: Yes/No ages and where are they living? Yes 19 & 17 Daughters.
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: who is the pursuer versus the distancer--now as well as pre-Bomb - I was and still am the pursuer even though I know I shouldn't
I think he tried to be high energy in the first 6 months going out all the time, changing friends, busy busy busy then it stopped.
Now just tries to keep himself so busy with work so he doesn't have to think (his words) He contacts me in some way every day since the day he left.
Wants to be "best friends", "no reason this should get ugly" "I love and care about you but I do not want to be married" Goes from depressed to ok...not really sure. He is good at hiding his feelings. Has talked about divorce but has done nothing to get one. House is for sale but he won't do any of the fix up work that needs to be done so I know it will not sell. Complains about money all the time (for 25 years we never had a fight about money, he never cared) I feel compared to many on here his crisis is mild.
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Gender: Male
Age at Bomb Drop: 54--on his Birthday
Infidelity: EA that became PA at BD. Seems to have only gone on a few months. He would go out almost every night and was drinking when he never did much of either before. Then abruptly quit.
Are they home: Was gone the first few months, been home 7 months
He never lived with the alienator--she has a husband.
Kids: Adult from his previous marriage. They live in different states.
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: He was the pursuer pre. I was for the first few weeks after but found the "180 Rules" very quickly and stopped. Now in the "Just friends limbo." He does seem to be doing micro-pursuits--bringing home treats, complimenting, thanking for things, finds reasons to come into the woman cave when I'm in there. Then he will just as abruptly run out.
He has always been a bit depressed and lacking in initiative.
He is extremely attached to his computer and won't do outdoor things or exercise. He is not a workaholic--hates work.
He is aware he is confused--says he has never known what he wants to do with his life. He feels his time is running out and wants to get rich quick and travel.
The crisis seems milder than those who are high-energy--when you compare to other stories on the boards--yes. He was worse pre-BD. He gets in little digs but nothing like what others have had to endure.
You, as the LBS, may question of it is MLC since high-energy is more to the sterotype--yes--wonder about that all the time--until he says something typical or goes into escape mode. He will seem quite normal as long as there is no pressure. He seems to panic easily.
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RCR Blog article not about contact types but about energy during REPLAY (http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/low-energy-wallow-lifes-pity-party/)
Clinging Boomerangs maintain an emotional attachment and connection to their spouse, Wallowers withdraw emotionally.
RCR would You please explane why Wallowers withdraw emotionally. My MLCer have all energy characteristics of wallower.
Anyway I don't get it correlation between contact type and MLCer energy which You use in that sentence.
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I think your answer lies in the difference between Overt and Covert Depression.
Covert depression is hidden and I would guess has more higher energy type replay behaviors.
Overt depression is more obvious and so the person withdraws into a shell and does not have enough energy to do almost anything.
I think chemically the person with Covert depression is living on adrenalin.
And eventually the adrenalin stops pumping and thus a big fall into Overt depression.
Also the adrenalin drains the body's resources and other parts start to wear out quicker.
Like if you always had your foot to the floor on the accelarator driving your car.
Evenually you have to stop for gas. :) :) :)
That would be a simple view of it from me.
Hope it helps.
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So far I know almost all MLCers steal self from us emotionally. In fact they probably have only primitive emotions "proto emotions" like fear and anger when they are deep in depression.
About wallowers, they have so low self esteem, co-dependence that they haven't courage eve in such emergency state to leave.
Natural state for my MLcer is low energy wallower, she make decision on her blog that she leaving, since she publish it pass 2 months, nothing happen except she ban me in bed. When I push her, she react. Then I find her EA and push her even harder, she wanna leave, but never did, never even make any preparations. ("Don't make me to I must leave").
Then monster in her arise and narcissism. So, she still remain low energy MLCer because have no guts to leave because own antics. It took several months that she back in much normal state.
Also I am keen that MLCers with stronger ego are low energy MLCers. Means they still have some power in ego to diminish monster in self.
In this days I find mixed ethics in her, much more old person then monster.
About contact type, she never left home, that does not means that she is not vanisher or boomerang. I will rather say about pursuing and distance. How she trawler trough tunnel our relationship dynamics change in time. So, she somehow pursue me because she obviously feel so low and I am everyday stronger and stronger.
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I have a struggle with the definitions of the difference between wallower and clinging boomerang also.
My h has been a major wallower from about a year or so after bd. lots of overt depression, took 3 years to muster the energy and courage to move out. 6 weeks after moving out he came and told me he wanted to come home. I said no. So he came here almost all the time instead, still wallowing when here.
My h withdrew emotionally from all of us, yet remains attached through his dependence on me.
He has has moments of high energy that didn't last long. Straight after them he would crash to low energy again.
Has continued to say he loves me, although not recently. But then he can barely talk right now as it is.
The whole pity party article from RCR sums him up, yet he is not a wallower through his attachment to me.
Monster was evident in the beginning and here and there since, but he always curtails it when he knows he has gone too far and sees me disappearing. He will always follow monster up with a gesture to " get back in" with me.
So where would he fit then?
Sd
X
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I think your answer lies in the difference between Overt and Covert Depression.
Covert depression is hidden and I would guess has more higher energy type replay behaviors.
Overt depression is more obvious and so the person withdraws into a shell and does not have enough energy to do almost anything.
I think chemically the person with Covert depression is living on adrenalin.
And eventually the adrenalin stops pumping and thus a big fall into Overt depression.
Also the adrenalin drains the body's resources and other parts start to wear out quicker.
Like if you always had your foot to the floor on the accelarator driving your car.
Evenually you have to stop for gas. :) :) :)
That would be a simple view of it from me.
Hope it helps.
That, OP...was genius! ;D
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My H is definitely a Wallower with shades of Clinging! He won't tell me he loves me with words, but he comes around and finds excuses to contact a lot. He also never went public with ow and hides his adultery from his family to this day.......
Even his Monster is low energy. Its more passive-aggressive teenage behavior than anything else. I don't know if its because of S10 or not. Perhaps he would have been a vanisher if not for our son. Who knows?
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I see a lot of low energy wallower in my wife. She has withdrawn emotionally from me but not from the kids. There is minimal monster. She has said a few times she is done yet does nothing in terms of moving forward in separating. She is definitely low energy as she has no real motivation to do much of anything right now. She will have bursts of energy where she will go running for several days, then nothing. The timing of this article couldn't be more perfect as it opens my eyes to what I am dealing with everyday.
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My high energy replayer: 1st BD...not happy, done, never coming back.
2nd BD, had not answered any of my calls, I was worried about what I thought was his depression, his heart trouble, his father in nursing home with traumatic brain injury. When I could not get hold of him I thought something had happened to him or his father.
3:30 a.m. returns my call to tell me he is on a date???!!! Shows up shortly after, in almost a manic high, tells me how great he feels, how great this person is and how great the date was and that I should try it??!! I am in shock, talk to 6:00 a.m. to this crazy person I don't even recognize. Ends with him telling me he is not going to see her anymore, not worth the trouble.
Next evening I find out he has taken her to dinner, told her it was up to her. Well she thought they should go for it!! Even though he supposedly told her I was still home waiting for him to come to his senses.
So within 4 months of BD 1, he has met his soul-mate, and they have, based on her decision, decided to "go for it." They are in love.
I will give the short version of the rest, within months of meeting her, flies his new soul-mate to Paris, to propose on their very first Valentines Day together. Months later they married.
That is what high energy looks like. Whew, I am exhausted just writing about it! LOL
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Like RCR wrote in article my W is perfectionist, so very picky about potential lover. So, for her is natural state to be wallower. She was so picky when she was girl and so many guys available. Now her choice is very narrowed in free man group and she do not hesitate to pick married man, both of them are. That is so in opposite with her morality ! Also alienators have to meet some "pathology" be involved with marred woman and both obviously meet that. What a odds for that, small. Does any future in that, I don't think so. I am sure that she aware that to, point is when she will accept that ? Or she does not seek for true relationship.
She is Antihero (http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/uncategorized/antihero/), after my EA discovery and clashes she become more Accommodater (http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/accommodater/). She thinks that she is so specific and full of anger that is better for her living alone.
From antihero page: "He believes his wife will be safer and better off without him, or if he regresses into projection and denial, he will believe his wife is the cause of his explosions and though he believes she will be safer when he is gone, he also believes it is entirely her fault. She made him angry or failed to make him happy and thus they are incompatible. It simply was not meant to be; he will try to make it work with someone else."
So, my wife is more Antihero and less Accommodater. Also more low energy wallower then high energy replayer.
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I think your answer lies in the difference between Overt and Covert Depression.
Covert depression is hidden and I would guess has more higher energy type replay behaviors.
Overt depression is more obvious and so the person withdraws into a shell and does not have enough energy to do almost anything.
I think chemically the person with Covert depression is living on adrenalin.
And eventually the adrenalin stops pumping and thus a big fall into Overt depression.
Also the adrenalin drains the body's resources and other parts start to wear out quicker.
Like if you always had your foot to the floor on the accelarator driving your car.
Evenually you have to stop for gas. :) :) :)
That would be a simple view of it from me.
Hope it helps.
I believe so, but depend also up to MLCer getting in. If he cannot find his rush then he do not press pedal to the metal as You tell so. Depend of how strong ego he have and how picky he is. Eventually he will be tired of pressing that pedal. Anyway I am keen that they are addicts.
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From antihero page: "He believes his wife will be safer and better off without him, or if he regresses into projection and denial, he will believe his wife is the cause of his explosions and though he believes she will be safer when he is gone, he also believes it is entirely her fault. She made him angry or failed to make him happy and thus they are incompatible. It simply was not meant to be; he will try to make it work with someone else."
My H is an antihero, was a perfectionist. Tidy. Horrific monster, emotionally withdrawn for 2 years +. Wallowers, I read, tend to have emotional bond with OW. This is my H (I think), but the monster and high energy replay my H displays does not fit wallower. I am unsure of his energy/contact type.
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Hi all,
I have a low-energy wallower who also displays short-term fits of high-energy replay.
Does this board still have groups for LBSs to join based on their MLCer's type? I saw something about that, but can't locate the groups (if they exist).
Thanks!
WH
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Hi all,
I have a low-energy wallower who also displays short-term fits of high-energy replay.
Does this board still have groups for LBSs to join based on their MLCer's type? I saw something about that, but can't locate the groups (if they exist).
Thanks!
WH
Hi Working Hard,
This is in your Forum profile. If you go to Modify Forum Profile - the last option is Group Membership.
L
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Limitless,
Thank you! Just joined a group. How do I post to it or read the posts it contains?
WH
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There aren't any special posts or threads for the Group.
The Group is just an identifier.
L
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Okay. Got it. Thanks again.
WH
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Also the adrenalin drains the body's resources and other parts start to wear out quicker.
Makes me wonder if that's why H has new and unusual health issues
(It seems many other MLCers on this board do too)
And why, with these new health issues, H seems to have slowed down A LOT
Hmmm.....thanks for the extra brick in my wall of understanding
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My H's health continues to deteriorate and he keeps asking me why. I have told him its his life and lifestyle and that his body is speaking to him. I don't know if that sunk in!
Every week now he has some new health issue!
X
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Joining this thread as I'm very intrigued. I read a lot in the forum about the types. Can someone enlighten me: my H is happy, suffers from no ailments, is not depressed. Does not contact me. Is perfectly pleasant when he sees me. Us sure of his decision to leave. Is adamant he will pay for everything. Sees therapist to understand himself. Wants to see his children, loves and misses them. Me, he cares for, is not in love for a long time, would be happy to be friends. Wants me to find happiness. Pays me weekly maintenance, is not doing crazy things. So I see he is not a boomerang, not a vanished (told me he was always there if I needed him). What is he?
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PG, an MLCer IN DENIAL of the damage he 's creating, that's who!! I am convinced you will see some vast changes in him as you continue NC and are very dark with him.
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I hope so, cos he is truly outside the box of what I hear. So I wondered if there were other types, I've only read boomerang and vanisher but he's neither. I wait to see for my curiosity.
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My x is a Low Energy MLCer. He has very rarely showed any anger towards me, only a little after B dropped. Has always treated me nicely, has had no ow (although he tried looking at dating sites a year or so ago) and it's been almost 3 years now.
I think the biggest difference between a Low or High energy MLCer is the High energy type live their fantasy, the Low energy live "in" fantasy.I truly believe my x thought about a fantasy ow and a fantasy life, but he doesn't pursue it. Hasn't got the energy.
He has gone into a depression a few months ago and is exhausted all the time, aches and pains all over the place, left most of his replay type activities (running, biking, rollerblading, etc.) by the roadside and shows a lot of self-loathing. He's old, he's not worth much, he's fat (he's thin). Cuts himself down all the time.
I try to be patient with him and build him up when I can, but he is struggling. All I can do is listen and let him know, without saying it, that I am here for him.
I take care of myself and try not to give him all my head space.
Sure is hard to watch though.
Until he choses to work through his issues not much I can do.
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My x is a Low Energy MLCer. He has very rarely showed any anger towards me, only a little after B dropped. Has always treated me nicely, has had no ow (although he tried looking at dating sites a year or so ago) and it's been almost 3 years now.
I think the biggest difference between a Low or High energy MLCer is the High energy type live their fantasy, the Low energy live "in" fantasy.I truly believe my x thought about a fantasy ow and a fantasy life, but he doesn't pursue it. Hasn't got the energy.
He has gone into a depression a few months ago and is exhausted all the time, aches and pains all over the place, left most of his replay type activities (running, biking, rollerblading, etc.) by the roadside and shows a lot of self-loathing. He's old, he's not worth much, he's fat (he's thin). Cuts himself down all the time.
I try to be patient with him and build him up when I can, but he is struggling. All I can do is listen and let him know, without saying it, that I am here for him.
I take care of myself and try not to give him all my head space.
Sure is hard to watch though.
Until he choses to work through his issues not much I can do.
Do they change their energy level? It seems mine started off as Low energy (looking for fantasy through dating site for about a year or so) then ramped up to High energy (found fantasy and caused a lot of damage) now it appears it he going to look for the fantasy again :o We have been trying to reconnect but he doesn't want to live a life of compromise; he doesn't want to stop looking for the fantasy. I have told him that there is a reason they are called a fantasy and in all likelyhood he isn't going to find it and he is going to lose us in the process. It is a lose-lose situation; he says that he realizes this but has to try ???
So I guess I'll see if he ramps back up to High energy again.
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Searching, from everything I've read their either one or the other. The types don't mix.
Your H sounds more High Energy, but they are all so different. One may be a High energy type but not as extreme as other High energy types.
Some Low Energy types can't even get off the couch. Other's can function a little better.
All so confusing to us. :-\
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Interesting about the energy levels. My H was low on energy during the 2 year affair, but still did it, so high energy replay? Since January started high energy activities, now is doing nothing except work. Talks a lot about what he'd like to do but is not doing any. Why the changes?
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PatienceGalore, even Low Energy MLCers make attempts at replay actions, they just don't usually work for them.
Mine, in the very beginning, went out to a few bars (I'm sure looking for Ms. Right) but it didn't last.
He did this maybe 3 times but now hasn't been out for about 2 1/2 years. Those fantasy women were just not out there.
Sometimes it's not an ow that drives them....or gives them a high. It could be anything from working out to learning a new hobby. Seems to take the place of an ow.
With mine I think his "replay" or "avoidance" actions are his work and working out. He was manic about working tons of overtime, running marathons and any athletic adventure he could find. His fantasy ow was in his head.
Now he struggles with doing anything. Has to force himself to work out a few times a week.
It doesn't mean they are any better than a High energy MLCer, sometimes their worse..they just don't act out as much. Their still avoiding but in a different way.
A Low energy MLCer can take longer to get through their crisis because they aren't burning through it like a High energy man/woman does. They can get stuck and never move at all.
I saw this happening to my x so I moved out about a year ago. I decided one of us had to make a move or we would go on like this forever. Never moving in any direction.
It was a good choice, for me.
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Patience, is your H still living at home?
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No he left and is living with his mother. He did start a few activities since January but doesn't seem to be doing then. He says he is trying up go out more but his mother says he's pretty much at home all the time. All he does is work. He is so sure leaving me is the right thing. Told me he expects to be in a relationship soon, maybe reconnecting with OW who lives in Germany. Don't know how that can work out! She gas two children and he has three and says he's not moving!
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Ok I think my H is a High Energy MLC / Replayer. He was having the affair 13 months before he 'told' me and one month later moved in with her (she is in the next country to Germany)
He comes home every 2-3 weeks due to obligations here. He is always pleasant, helps around the property if I need it. I do my best to be "a kind neighbor" but would like to whack him over the head with a 2x4 if I thought that would help.
The alienator kicked her husband out (D) and re did her home and moved my husband in, pays for everything (even his train trips back here)...
She is also in a MLC...I am hoping by next year they both come crashing down to earth. No Contact is not possible at the moment, house is for sell (alienators idea).
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Mine had 18 month affair that he said he wanted before I found our. Then he dumped her soon after that and now is talking of reconnecting. If I were her I'd tell him where to go!
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I think mine is turbo charged, high energy, on steroids. He is a nightmare.
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I have no idea what mine is! Last year he was spending a fair bit of time motorbike riding at weekends and OW was part of this group. I first realised something was going on when we talked about buying a van for the bikes and he wanted her opinion an to test drive it - WTF?
They had plans to ride nearly every weekend this year, all written in the diary. H said this year he was going to ride, ride, ride. Around Christmas time a mutual friend could see that H was obsessed with OW and he pulled OW aside and told her to back off.
Contact between them has lessened a great deal this year although I don't know for sure what physical contact they have, or she may be ringing him. All I do know for sure is that phone ally's an texts from his phone have lessened considerably. And he has done very little bike riding. Work seems to crop up at the weekend an he takes that, a very different attitude to what it was before. Probably the bike riding isn't as much fun without OW. I am convinced that he was going to take it up a notch and make the EA a PA this year. OW jumps around with her bed partners, 8 that I know of in the short time I've known her, so he must of thought he was in with a chance!
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Patience, I think your H is delusional. Telling you he is probobly going to get involved in a relationship soon.
It's his fantasies working on him.
If that ow was so important to him he would have stuck with her and fought for her.
Apparently she was not that important to him. Don't give her any importance.
I think him talking like this is just so you don't get the wrong impression that he is coming back to you.
My x did that, too. He would spend time with me (in bed) and then get freaked out and go back to his bedroom in the basement.
He would say...well, I don't want to give you the wrong impression.
I knew he meant he was not giving in and still wanted his freedom. I just let him go.
I knew, somewhere in my heart, he wanted to be with me but was fighting it. I just didn't fit into his plans....his fantasy.
I kept pursuing him, not verbally but physically. It worked...or is working so far. I figure if he has needs and I have needs,...so why not?
I keep it at a friends, with benefits, type arrangement but so far it has kept him from seeking ow's.
I don't know. I am feeling so much stronger. I guess for me it worked...or is working so far.
Don't get me wrong. I'm leaving myself open for a relationship with someone else if it comes a long but for now I'm ok with things the way they are. I'm not actively looking.
I have a beautiful apartment, a wonderful family, a few good friends and I can chose to do what I want and go where I want. If he choses to be free, I'm free too. :)
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buying a van for the bikes and he wanted her opinion an to test drive it - WTF
:o ;D ::)
OW jumps around with her bed partners, 8 that I know of in the short time I've known her, so he must of thought he was in with a chance!
Now there's a classy woman, and what a healthy relationship that sounds!
He would spend time with me (in bed) and then get freaked out and go back to his bedroom in the basement.
That made me laugh, sorry if it wasn't funny ;D ;D ;D ;D
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My wife was extroverted before MLC. She goes from extroverted to introverted gradually. In full blown replay totally introverted in fantasy world. Every MLCer libido fall into shadow. Most likely that introverted before MLC explode - act out become extroverted.
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My wife was extroverted before MLC. She goes from extroverted to introverted gradually. In full blown replay totally introverted in fantasy world. Every MLCer libido fall into shadow. Most likely that introverted before MLC explode - act out become extroverted.
Hi Albatross,
I've been witnessing pretty much the same thing--the change from an extroverted, engaged person to a mostly withdrawn, generally low-energy introvert living in an internal world of imagination and fantasy, listening to trance music and EDM to keep that world flowing along privately.
Now, my MLCer seems to be coming out of that somewhat and is more engaged, more emotionally connected, and more focused on the needs of others. It looks like gradual awakenings over time.
What do you mean by the MLCer's libido falling into the shadow? I know what the Jungian shadow is, but is that what you mean?
Thanks!
WH
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My wife was extroverted before MLC. She goes from extroverted to introverted gradually. In full blown replay totally introverted in fantasy world. Every MLCer libido fall into shadow. Most likely that introverted before MLC explode - act out become extroverted.
Hi Albatross,
I've been witnessing pretty much the same thing--the change from an extroverted, engaged person to a mostly withdrawn, generally low-energy introvert living in an internal world of imagination and fantasy, listening to trance music and EDM to keep that world flowing along privately.
Now, my MLCer seems to be coming out of that somewhat and is more engaged, more emotionally connected, and more focused on the needs of others. It looks like gradual awakenings over time.
What do you mean by the MLCer's libido falling into the shadow? I know what the Jungian shadow is, but is that what you mean?
Thanks!
WH
My H has been pretty introverted for most of our realtionship; doesn't have many close friends, doesn't want to socialize, doesn't like people in general, doesn't want to go anywhere, etc. When replay started he became much more extroverted; needs to connect with people, is more tolerant of crowds, can't stand to be home, always want to go go go. H says that he always been extroverted :o News to me. The interesting part of all of this is that when he decided that he needed to be more connected to people he shrugged off the closest people to him, lately he has been reaching out to friends/ family that he fell out of touch with years ago.
My theory on this whole MLC thing is this: I think they have to go out into the world to find themselves again before they can be whole. They think that we as their partners will judge them and I am finding that the judging part is what seems to push them the furtherest away from us.
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I would agree with the pushing away part. However why do they not believe us when we say we love them unconditionally and are not judging them?
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However why do they not believe us when we say we love them unconditionally and are not judging them?
I think maybe they just can't. It isn't on their list of what to take on. As well, we need to just show it, not say it, and then later on, they can look back and see it was true. Don't think telling them means anything right now, sadly.
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That I would also agree with. I did notice an annoyed look come over him when I said it last, so I don't anymore!!!
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I would agree with the pushing away part. However why do they not believe us when we say we love them unconditionally and are not judging them?
Because they do not love themselves unconditionally and are constantly judging themselves so as a reflection of them we must be doing the same.
A while back I told H that I couldn't do this anymore, the first thing out of his mouth was 'did i meet someone else?" :o The last thing I want to do right now is meet anyone ??? But it shows you how they think.
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That's interesting! To date my H could not care less if I saw someone. So he says... He knows I am not and won't.
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A while back I told H that I couldn't do this anymore, the first thing out of his mouth was 'did i meet someone else?"
It is quite laughable, although not funny, I know.
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That's interesting! To date my H could not care less if I saw someone. So he says... He knows I am not and won't.
Until you do!
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As well, we need to just show it, not say it, and then later on, they can look back and see it was true. Don't think telling them means anything right now, sadly.
I agree with needing to show it. I had started acting in accordance with H's mood; I have stopped doing this. I told H that I will treat him the way I want to based on my feelings not his. I have been making a conscience effort to touch him, say that I love him, etc based on me. My thought behind this is that the action speaks louder than words to them right now and he will be able to look back at the consistancy.
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A while back I told H that I couldn't do this anymore, the first thing out of his mouth was 'did i meet someone else?"
It is quite laughable, although not funny, I know.
Snowdrop,
H has told me that he doesn't know if he has feelings for me anymore, etc, you know the script. That night or the next H had a dream that I was leaving the house at 3:00am to hook up with some guy, it bothered him enough that he woke up and it was 3:00am! He didn't go back to sleep :o
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My kids have said to me how H would be so upset if I met someone. Just their assumption, not his words, probably as they saw he was the one always showing and saying he loved me ::) I doubt it, although you never know as it would be out of his control, whereas now, he "thinks" he's in full.
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This thread has been so interesting. I can relate to Limitless and Still. So much of what you described fit my X.
He is definitely a Low-Energy MLCer.
Right after B dropped he tried going out, flirting with women and started doing all kinds of activities, like running, lifting weights, dieting, cutting all his gray off his body, etc. but it only lasted for a little while.
Then he just went into a funk.
I do agree the ow is a fantasy person. He made attempts at meeting a new woman (dating sites) but it never panned out for him. He met one woman for coffee and then never saw her again.
He is taking no responsibility for much of anything. The house is falling apart in front of his eyes but he doesn't seem to have the energy to do anything about it. He puts everything on the back burner.
The chaos got to him the other day so he did the dishes and picked up the living room. (Both way over due) After that he was so exhausted he had to sit down in front of the TV until he went to bed. Never mind the cobwebs all over the place.
Lately I also see a lot of confusion and memory problems with him. He will forget a name or where he was going with his sentence and he gets very frustrated with himself. This is new. Not the confusion so much but his memory has gotten so bad.
He puts himself down constantly. He's fat, he's old, any cutting remark he can make. I try to be kind to him because he seems so lost but no matter what I say, it's like he doesn't hear me.
About not finding an ow I agree it maybe does take them longer to go through their crisis. It's hard to let go of a fantasy, perfect woman. You certainly can't compete with a fantasy.
In the beginning I thought maybe he had a crush on a married woman at work but I'll never know for sure. I just know thru other people he works with she is happily married. So maybe she is his fantasy woman. Who knows.
He did ask her to go running with him one time and she turned him down.
Anyway, it sure seems he has quit looking for another woman for now. Just going through a "self-hating" phase.
Watch I say that and next week he'll find one. lol
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Male; definitely low energy
Age at 3/13 BD: 39
Emotional affair that went physical after I kicked him out 7/13, ongoing until 3/14 when he lost his job b/c of affair and had an awakening. She dumped him when affair was outed. She appears to be gone. He doesn't appear to be looking for OW 2, but I keep my red flag ready.
Moved home 4/14. Slowly reconnecting; I apply little to no pressure. He's so depressed!!!!
No kids
Pre-BD he was distanced, me pursuer. Now, he cycles between both but is more consistently distanced in his depression/withdrawal. I do neither. I'm neutral. ;)
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Forgot to mention he has said from BD to present: "I am so confused and messed up."
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Gender Male
Age at BD 50
Infidelity EA that went PA for 2 years prior to BD, then imploded 7 months after BD. nothing now. At least nothing I've found yet....Has been on dating sites and has FB "friends" who continually make suggestive comments online.
Are they home No, he lives in a rented house alone.
Kids Yes, S11 ours
Pursuit & Distance I was pursuer right after BD until I found this site. Then I became distancer and he began to pursue.
He tried replay activities right before BD and right after; younger friends, lots of alcohol, parties, exercise, new foods. Gave those up after about 6 - 8 months post BD. Now he talks about being "active" but works, goes home, is on computer or xbox and then goes to bed. Is in contact everyday. I never initiate the contact. Mild monster that backs down pretty easily. Arrogant, entitled attitude. Very critical of others. Very narcissistic. Spoke of D at BD, but nothing since then. Will come to the house and do chores for me if I ask........
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Gender: Female
Age at BD: 41
Infidelity: Emotional x2 (heavy flirting, sexually charged but not direct). She was making plans to meet/see #2 (childhood exbf on FB) when I busted her. Both alienators confronted and gone; no others known.
Are they home: Yes as of 5/28/2014, never left.
Kids: Yes, S21 & D11, S21 is in military and D11 still at home.
Pursuit & Distance: Pre-Bomb She was primary pursuer although I did some pursuing as well. Post-Bomb I pursued / she distanced. After learning about distance & pursuit I have attempted to be as steady as possible; do my best not to pursue and 180 as quickly as possible when I see her distance.
Definitely Low-Energy
Military family with history of multiple deployments & separation. I was very work focused and was distant in my own ways which did contribute to potential neglect / disconnect so legitimate complaint there which is what she focuses on. I believe the triggers are my retirement & S21 leaving home for military in 2009 & 2012 respectively. I had to confront her for the BD; ILYBNILWY; cried and said she was sorry; spewed out some script (did not know is was script at the time).
Most of the time, you wouldn't think anything is wrong. We are still good friends, have conversation, go out to eat, go out on "dates", socialize with friends, etc.
Started several "GAL" activities but never lasted more than 3 months; still sleeps with me, clinging boomerang; will pursue as soon as I distance / 180; always tired; aging rapidly; actively tried/tries to reconnect.
Some of the "script" I has received (in no particular order):
- ILYBNILWY
- It's not you it's me (started after I implemented consistent changes)
- You deserve someone better
- Don't you want someone who will love you back
- I don't love you anymore and I'll never love you again (followed by random ILY throughout crisis)
- What if I could be happy with someone else?
- I am not looking for anyone else
- A replacement is the last thing I am looking for (i.e. new man)
- I want my space
- You make my skin crawl
- maybe it's too little too late?
- it is too little too late!
- I don't know how else to try (to "fall back in love" with me / fix the marriage)
- Can we have an open marriage (upon discovery of EA2)
- I am horny all the time; I like to f**k
- I don't want to have sex with you (followed by wanting / asking for sex within 48 hours)
- Can we still have sex? (asked during EA2 bust; she wanted it right then presumably to "make up")
- Sometimes I want to have sex with other men, but not for the sex; I want to feel a connection.
- I am so f**cked up in the head
- You should just leave me before I do something to really hurt you
- I wish you would just leave
- I need some space
- I hope you will get mad and leave me so I don;t have to be the bad guy
- I am so confused; not sure what I want
Even with all the above, she still maintains a high level of clarity. Says she knows something is wrong with her; it isn't all about me & her. Has made IC appointments on her own. Shows signs of wanting to reconcile but unable to do so (still looking external). Gets frustrated after a while, then blows up wanting out (at least that's what I believe is happening). Still sleeps in bed with me, still kisses me goodbye in the morning. Still snuggles with me on occasion.
OBO
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Gender: Male
Age at BD: 41
If there is infidelity it is emotional.
He lives at home with me. Sleep in the same bed.
Kids: 2 D both 13
Pursuit and Distance: He doesn't pursue at all. Right after BD, we still kissed hello and goodbye when leaving. After he said he could no longer do C that stopped. I no longer pursue. We just keep a pleasant distance.
Low-Energy.
Before BD he started walking everyday, even weekends. Now he is down to 2-3 times a week. Since BD he goes out twice a week after work. I have no idea with whom. I've never asked. He never complains about how he looks. He tells me he's comfortable being his age, and having grey hair. His one big complaint is the kids don't show him affection and don't want to spend time with him anymore.
He hardly, if ever, Monsters. He had some anger right after BD. That is gone. It was never nasty, or directed towards me. It was just a blow up here or there about whatever. Things that would've never have upset him before. This was when we were going to C. Since then it has stopped. After we stopped C, he told me he felt better then he had in months about the "whole situation". When he did BD, he said there was no reason to be hasty about our decisions, and he wanted to help me with everything. He wanted it cordial. As a boundary I told him to stop, and he no longer voices ideas on how he thinks he should help me.
I have undone house projects all over. However, this is nothing new. He has been this way for about 3 years now. He used to have a hard time sitting still. The house stuff went first, but he would always go outside and find something to tinker with. In the last 6-8 months that is gone too. He now just comes home, and watches hours, and I mean HOURS of television. This man used to watch about one half hour sitcome a week. It's wild. His memory is gone. He doesn't remember things that I told him three days ago.
He takes no responsibility for our relationship. It has been me or us as a couple. We just "aren't good together". We are "roommates" and "complacent". He says he will probably never have another relationship, and he has even told me he doesn't want a woman with kids. I figure he looks at it as more work than he is up for.
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Male
first BD in 2008 (age 38 at the time), moved in with buddy, no legal action came home after 4 months (OW and PA during that time)
Second BD 2013 (age 42), moved in with parents. We are legally separated (I believe his dad pushed for this and since he "cried wolf" last time and needed this action to save face now." Do not know if there is an OW this time, but there was "texting" with someone prior to BD that he tells me was his red flag that "we" were in trouble.
No kids.
Pre BD I was the pursuer, now I am the distancer. He works out of town, but had maintained fairly regular contact (about every 2 weeks or so) Says our friendship is very important to him. Will take me for supper. At time of BD put all of the responsibility for the (failed) M on my plate, absolved himself of any wrong doing or fault. In other aspects however, keeps telling me about all of the great qualities I have. Gives me long lingering hugs when he has not seen me for some time.
Other than when we were dealing with legal issues, have seen little monster behavior. And of this, most was in the form of texts that hurt me so very deeply. This suits his non-confrontational communication style. He has always had a motorcycle, so nothing new there. Leaving the M (and all of the responsibility) allows freedom w/o pressure. Does not seem to be showing typical replay behavior. That I'm aware of.
Yes I question if this is MLC. He is sooo nice. Those on the outside just think the M didn't work and buy his reasons for leaving. They see nothing "wrong" with him. But I know he had a difficult teen-adult transition. He has always searched for who he is and has tried on lots of hats even since I have known him. Has never been able to stand up to his Dad (who is very loud, opinionated and controlling) and avoids all confrontation (friends, job, marriage) and runs from (big) problems. Seems like an identity crisis to me which = MLC. For more detail, please see my thread.
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Scarlett, wow you could be talking about my X. He was the same way, never sat in front of the TV all day like he does now. Yard work, that he used to enjoy, just doesn't get done.
I think the depression just makes them exhausted all the time. They, literally, have to force themselves to do things.
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Thunder, I have thought a few times the last couple of days our situations sound the same. :)
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Scarlett, wow you could be talking about my X. He was the same way, never sat in front of the TV all day like he does now. Yard work, that he used to enjoy, just doesn't get done.
I think the depression just makes them exhausted all the time. They, literally, have to force themselves to do things.
Same thing here...only instead of TV, it's FB, Pinterest & Sudoku! Come home, 75% of time doesn't even change cloths, plops down and semi-watches TV & works her iDevices. Eventually, she falls asleep in the chair and I have to tell her to go to bed! the conversation we had going has ground to a halt and she is about as fun as watching grass grow!
Weekends....we go to beach where she falls asleep/silent in the sun for like 4-6 hours! Other than that, this is the only time projects get completed (rarely); she may shop a little too. lots of naps!
She has started to go to gym again 3 x a week; this is about the 5th workout program she has tried. See how long it lasts; bet not more than 2 months tops!
Always tired....always!
OBO!
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The ironic part of his t.v. watching is it's all home improvement shows. My house could be a home improvement show.
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Very High energy MLC’er
Gender: Female
Age at Bomb Drop: 04/2007 (43),
Infidelity: Many phone friends that I now know to be EA’s, 2 of these developed in to her PA’s. 4PA’s that I know of and still in contact with 3 of them at various levels of infidelity but still continues with #4 who is very new and infatuation is still very high.
Are they home? Still at home but stays with OM#4 Friday Saturday night.
Kids: D12
Pursuit & Distance Dynamics: I pursed all of the time in the hope of saving the marriage and xW distanced all the time. As I look back I can see this was the dynamics throughout our whole relationship. I stopped pursuing when we started the divorce process.
History
At the start it was her escape and avoid, then a PA, I busted that and we agreed to work on the M. Then I got ILYBNILWY, she continued the with PA that ended, we work on marriage again. Years of escape and avoid & distance an pursuit. Finally we start the divorce process and then she goes crazy with OM’s, one after another. Monster is there all the time and can get quite nasty. We are finally divorced but she refuses to move out. All of this over the course of 10 years but there were signs of this right in the begging of our 20 years together.
so yes we are finally divorced.