Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: limitless on October 19, 2011, 11:40:33 AM
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I remember reading on one site that MLC - the serious Mid Life Crisis - where the MLCer abandons, has affairs, breaks up families etc. happens to about 8% of the population.
While that would be a significant number of people, I am beginning to wonder if this is an understatement.
Case in point - my workplace. I have chronicled the story of MLC man at my office. Five years later - he has finally ended it with OW#? and appears to be on his own - attempting to reconnect with his kids.
Now - two more cases have crept up. Another co-worker - male - married for 23 years - 3 daughters. Youngest daughter graduated from high school in June 2011. Immediately after that his wife (someone I have known - prior to their marriage. We had kids at the same time. Spent much time together as families) - decides that she no longer wants to be married and leaves the family home. Initially, she took all the blame. It's not you, it's me. Later - after speaking to their paster (she works for the church) - she admits that it is her husband (my co-worker). Now, it seems that she is "involved" with another man (who goes to the same church), who has 2 young sons. She has begun divorce proceedings. My co-worker is devastated and completely shocked at these turns of events.
Next case - one of my male associates. Married - 3 kids. Oldest Son is his wife's from another marriage - but he raised him as his own. About a year ago - his wife tells him that she is not happy and drops the "divorce" word. They go for counseling. My associate makes huge improvements in his attentiveness and kindness. Spends more time with the kids and wife. Counselor is about to "let them loose" as the concerns my assoicate's wife had have all been addressed by my associates. Guess what? He now gets the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech. She wants to separate. She isn't interested in being with anyone else (right!) - she just wants to be alone. One Son (associate's biological Son) may move out with the wife. Daughter hasn't decided. Oldest Son (he's an adult and NOT my associate's biological Son) wants to stay with my associate.
My gosh, this is an epidemic!
My associate knows my situation. He knows what the ILYBINILWY speech means. He seems to be better prepared than the other co-worker.
How prevalent is this? I recently visited an LBS - and during our visit we discussed many of her friends and friends' spouses who either had an MLC, was having an MLC, or was an LBS - from an MLC situation.
From my own situation - I am more aware of these situations and the causes.....so I can see these for what they are. In the past, I would have just chalked it up to "bad behavior."
In all of these situations - the MLCer has put very little thought into where he/she will live, how he/she will support themselves, what will happen with the kids, etc. The same running and avoiding (with no real plan) that I saw in my own situation.
Have you really ever thought about how many people you personally know or know of with lives that have been impacted by MLC?
Limitless
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I believe that it is rampant. I know of tons of people who have split up and I dont have details of the situations but I am currently of the thinking that most of them might be at least a mild case of MLC. I also wonder how much of the resulting divorces are because people are marrying later and as such by the time a couple hits mid life the 20 year history in many cases does not exit.
I am also postulating that much of this has to do with A) Materialism of our current society. B) Womans lib not that I think the concept is a bad one... but the prior relationship between man and woman took at least hundreds if not thousands of years. Now we have tossed it all out the window in the space of 50 years and people dont know how quite to make it work yet. Men dont know how to be men anymore and woman dont know how to be woman anymore.
Dont get me wrong here I am all for equal rights for everyone... I just dont think we have quite figured it out yet.
Me.
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Hi L ~ I personally have 4 friends going through it right now. Also another friend who went through it 10 years ago.
3 of these friends are females who H's left for OW. The other two friends are females who left their H's and kids.
For some reason, it seems like since the economy has gotten so bad, there are a lot more couples splitting because of
affairs. Both my Dr. and my Attorney told me they hear this every day, couples splitting. It's really sad.
NB
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I believe that it is, absolutely. But the problem is, it isn't recognized as such. People say once a cheater always a cheater so the offended spouse will throw away decades of an excellent marriage because they figure, "They're off enjoying their freedom and won't be coming back, and now I can't trust them even if they did come back." How many could've been restored if not for this hasty thinking? Who can blame the offended spouse for this way of thinking when nearly everybody around them is going to be constantly shoving it down their throats until the ink is dry on the divorce decree? I know for myself, I haven't ever thought I'd put up with what I'm currently putting up with. If I were not convinced I someday will have a great new husband (the old one but the "new" version) I'd be done.
I believe that our MLC problem is going to be a long one yet still a temporary one, and it keeps me going to concentrate on that fact. I hope I'll stay positive through the process.
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I believe that it is, absolutely. But the problem is, it isn't recognized as such. People say once a cheater always a cheater so the offended spouse will throw away decades of an excellent marriage because they figure, "They're off enjoying their freedom and won't be coming back, and now I can't trust them even if they did come back." How many could've been restored if not for this hasty thinking? Who can blame the offended spouse for this way of thinking when nearly everybody around them is going to be constantly shoving it down their throats until the ink is dry on the divorce decree? I know for myself, I haven't ever thought I'd put up with what I'm currently putting up with. If I were not convinced I someday will have a great new husband (the old one but the "new" version) I'd be done.
I believe that our MLC problem is going to be a long one yet still a temporary one, and it keeps me going to concentrate on that fact. I hope I'll stay positive through the process.
The things that have taken place over the last 6 months of my life... I would have never believed I would "accept". Well I dont accept them... but you get my drift I think. Which is why I think this is such a great place for me these days. People who have not felt it, have not tasted it can not give objective advice. All they know is they would not put up with it and a year ago... I would have said the exact same thing.
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Dont get me wrong here I am all for equal rights for everyone... I just dont think we have quite figured it out yet.
Ziggee - I agree with you completely - we haven't got the balance right yet at all. I too think that this contributes.
I also agree that until it happens to you, you have no idea how you'll react. I too thought I would never tolerate such 'bad behaviour' - This site is a god send.
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Dont get me wrong here I am all for equal rights for everyone... I just dont think we have quite figured it out yet.
Ziggee - I agree with you completely - we haven't got the balance right yet at all. I too think that this contributes.
I also agree that until it happens to you, you have no idea how you'll react. I too thought I would never tolerate such 'bad behaviour' - This site is a god send.
There is something else I think that is a factor... much of the crap that is on TV does nothing to build the value or importance of marriage relationships are devalued... look at the current batch of reality shows about finding a bride... how stupid is that...
Me.
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Yip - society and pop culture have a lot to answer for!
Ziggee - I love your by line about one never feeling alone :)
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I agree with what everyone has said. I never thought I would have put up with all the terrible things that my ex has done to me and still hope that there might possibly be a future for us if he can come through it all as the 'new improved version'! Most of my friends and family think I should just move on and find someone else. Maybe I will but I can't just let sixteen years together go so quickly. I would have said exactly the same as them to anyone before all this happened to me. That's what is so wonderful about this forum. You can say things without people thinking that you are weak, stupid, mad or possibly all three!
My sister keeps saying that a leopard never changes its spots but I'm pretty sure her first husband went through some sort of MLC many years ago when they had been married for twenty-five years. He had an affair with a woman at work, then left my sister to live with OW when she found out. OW went back to her husband when he got cancer. Ironically, my brother-in-law was then diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer. He and my sister got back together and she nursed him for the few months before he died.
I do think that TV and films portray marriage and long-term relationships as very disposable with very few consequences for everyone concerned which really can't help.
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I also agree that until it happens to you, you have no idea how you'll react. I too thought I would never tolerate such 'bad behaviour' - This site is a god send.
My pride has been taking a total beating ever since BD. First, my H talks about how he's not been happy for YEARS. Next few months are spent taking every chance he can to be sure I'm aware I'm the big mistake of his life. Months after that are spent showing me it would be so easy to just replace me and find true happiness, whether with some other woman, or with different hobbies, or living in a different area, with friends, etc etc etc. I spend this time looking in a mirror and dissecting all my many flaws. "Well of course he's not happy, when's the last time you colored your hair, woman?!?" I would have thought this would all make me toss him out but thankfully I've decided hangin' in there's worth it.
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My pride has been taking a total beating ever since BD. First, my H talks about how he's not been happy for YEARS.
I hear the same things... and I think to myself.. could it be true? I think I mentioned before.. I am an amateur photographer and I have thousands and thousands of pictures of her with our common friends, with the soccer team, with the kids and there is no way on gods green earth. I think she just has to say that to justify in her own mind her actions.
I think I mentioned the other day she told my eldest son 21 that the only reason she got married at the time was because her parents where pressuring her to go to collage. Thank goodness he has his head screwed on straight right now... and that is in large part due to the fact that she brought him up right. As I have read here the MLCer is their alien opposite and it is so so so true in this case. Nothing was more important to my wife then our family. Now it is the last thing on her list.
For the most part for the last 8 months I have done all the tucking of kids into bed and what not... and last night she sent our youngest to bed D4 and said she would tuck her in in a second. With is unusual... 30 seconds later my wife goes for a bath for an hour. I tuck and my wife comes out and says ok I am going to tuck you in now... Eldest daughter 16 says dad did it an hour ago.
How can you forget to tuck your daugher in to bed in the space of 30 seconds?
Wow... I just really meandered there... heh Sorry about that
Noticed we share BD of march... and Separation discussion in Aug... we must be following a similar trajectory
Me.
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I believe it may account for more divorces than first speculated. There were always stories of husbands suddenly abandoning families. didn't they call it the 7-year itch? Wives who did it were vilified more.
My sister went through it, and I am discovering more and more people who had endured this. The movies with their "i'm in love but not in love with you" and the even worse one "do whatever makes you happy" attitudes coupled with the assault on the family, contributes. One friend said, "divorce is easy, what's your problem?" However studies show the damage this causes.
Live isn't a movie. You can't always do what makes you happy. Suffering is part of life. and if your marriage is in a rut, you must talk to your partner and work hard at fixing it. These are such simple truths that modern day attitudes is corrupting. My therapist did not believe in midlife crisis. he said my H must have been like this all along and I simply ignored it. I thought I was nuts there for a while. But I'm hearing more and more stories. Just yesterday my dentist said his wife walked in and BD's him after 25 years. he was devastated.
angelgirl
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I think it is a growing thing. The numbers become higher for a number of reasons. We live long (at my age both my grandmothers were widows), the demands of our current life style, the sort of thing thar society places importance upon, the cult of youth, along with many other factor will made (are making) MLC numbers going up.
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I think most of our opinions on this are based on our lives and immediate surroundings. Based on that and what I have read, I do not think midlife crisis is prevalent. Is 8% too low? Perhaps, but I don't know.
I think it is too hard to try to figure out based on affairs. I think most affairs are just that....they are affairs. An affair is a symptom of MLC, but is definitely not the only one.
I do believe that most will go through a midlife transition.
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I do believe that most will go through a midlife transition.
I think most people go through dozens of transitions... the big differances is how one copes and what support systems are in place etc..
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Dontgiveup, I really think MLC is going up.
angel, yes, there were always stories of husbands that went away. TV series Mildred Pierce, set in the 1930's show a wife whose husband goes away. There is OW but we do not know much about the situation, just that Mildred becomes a grass widow and opens her own business.
Can't really get that "I love you but I'm not in love with you". One can be in love a bunch of times but love we do not love many people. So, what is the problem of love the spouse? Do they mean the butterflies in their belly is gonne? I wonder because husband and I fall in love with each other several times, so, the lack of butterflies in his stomach was not what made in leave. The love was always there until he left.
Actualy, I got I don't love you anymore but I still want you. A little different from the norm.
Nothing wrong with whatever makes you happpy since it does not make someone else unhappy nor hurts anyone.
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I agree with DGU.
While I believe it's not uncommon, it's not rampant in my world.
I also don't attribute every separation or divorce to MLC. Sometimes people just decide the marriage wasn't for them. I have 3 friends who got married the year after I did and they are all divorced. At least 2 of them tried counseling. There was none of the back and forth. No one really had a drastic change in personality.
There's a thread on here about trying to figure out if something is MLC or not. I think it does a disservice to consider everything MLC. For me two key things are a significant change in personality - that others see, not just the LBS - and the indecision, back and forth often saying ILY but not showing it by their actions. Oh, and seeing their pain/depression.
I would also say that this idea that the media has spread that we should all be happy all the time and there's something wrong if we are not is probably a major contributing actor. Life is hard. I don't think it's supposed to be fun all the time. In fact, I think some of the most worthwhile things are difficult. Is raising kids fun all the time? Are you always happy about it? Seems to me that it's exhausting and frustrating, but deeply worthwhile. Well, the same for marriage, but no one gets that.
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liw, don't think fun and happy are the same thing. Raising kids may not always be fun but that does not mean you are nor happy. happyness comes from within, not from having fun. Nor does a difficult tjhink makes you unhappy. Chess is difficult but it does not makes me unhappy.
No, not all divorces are due to MLC. Most are not. Don't agree with the part of the changes everyone sees, not just the LBS. Most people around my husband see no change in him. They either only meet in months prior to BD, afterwards or, if before, can't see much change in him because he does no let them see it.
Who sees it? I do, my family does, his best friend does. Maybe my SIL does as well. Don't know, never asked her.
Agrre with the depression/pain.
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AnneJ
"Most people around my husband see no change in him."
"Who sees it? I do, my family does, his best friend does."
So some other people DO see changes in your husband? It's not uncommon for most people around the MLCer to see no change in them, since often the MLCer will find a new and different crowd during the crisis. Others do see it, but don't want to get in the middle, so they say nothing.
Ziggee
"I think most people go through dozens of transitions"
Possibly so, but we are specifically referring to midlife here.
"the big differances is how one copes and what support systems are in place etc
Yes, since MLC is the result of lack of emotional development from an earlier age, I agree the coping skills in the MLCer are greatly lacking. I'm not sure what you mean by support systems, but I'm not sure most MLCers look for that once the crisis has begun.
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AnneJ
"Most people around my husband see no change in him."
"Who sees it? I do, my family does, his best friend does."
So some other people DO see changes in your husband? It's not uncommon for most people around the MLCer to see no change in them, since often the MLCer will find a new and different crowd during the crisis. Others do see it, but don't want to get in the middle, so they say nothing.
Yes, the ones I mentioned. But I thought LIW was refering to people other than some very close to the MCLer. I now they get a different set of friend and social circle, or choose a part of the social circle that only knew them from social events. Mine did both that, new friends (much younger, unmaried ones) and a part of th social circle that was not intimate.
Guess you're right, others see but say nothing. My family says nothing, his best friend says nothing. Had had a very big talk with him before he left (before BD), and after he left and BD. Of course husband did not listened.
Well, my husband wanted my help, so, he was lookinfg for a support system. My help to do as he pleased while he left me with nothing...It was strange, all those "you have to help me". Had no idea how to help him. Could not let him overstep my legal rights, nothing I said made a difference. When he asked what I though of what he was doing, I told him. He said, I know, but I need your help.
If it was now, this forum may had provided me with some insight, over 5 years ago I was lost. Still don't know what that "you have to help me" meant...
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Ziggee
"I think most people go through dozens of transitions"
Possibly so, but we are specifically referring to midlife here.
"the big differances is how one copes and what support systems are in place etc
Yes, since MLC is the result of lack of emotional development from an earlier age, I agree the coping skills in the MLCer are greatly lacking. I'm not sure what you mean by support systems, but I'm not sure most MLCers look for that once the crisis has begun.
But I think there it is... the difference between a transition and an MLC is... history and how you feel about yourself... what happened in your childhood maybe. How comfortable you are in your own skin... How you feel about your self and your roll in the universe. Maybe... maybe not.. I am just thinking out loud here... thats what we do here right?
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Ziggee
"But I think there it is... the difference between a transition and an MLC is... history and how you feel about yourself... what happened in your childhood maybe. How comfortable you are in your own skin... How you feel about your self and your roll in the universe. Maybe... maybe not.. I am just thinking out loud here... thats what we do here right?"
Yes, you can certainly think out loud....no problem there. Something I consistenly do on this forum is to connect information. I'm an information guy.
The difference between a midlife transition and midlife crisis is the behavior. Jim Conway addresses this in his materials. In a midlife crisis, the behavior of the MLCer will go against the core values they have held for many years.
Here is part of RCR's article called Initiatory Experience that discusses childhood causation.
MLC is the result of significant wounding in childhood and at a person's initiatory experience and thus their return to the wounding is a regression wherein they choose to repeat their earlier mistakes in hopes of correcting them rather than applying their experience to make different choices.
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Ziggee
Yes, you can certainly think out loud....no problem there. Something I consistenly do on this forum is to connect information. I'm an information guy.
Ah yes information... I hear you... That is what I am looking for here... and maybe a little dumping of the brain at the same time... I hope that I am being overly simplistic to think it is safe here... :/ So far don't think so... I have felt compelled to say things here I dont tell my closest friends... strange eh? How many strangers are reading this stuff? More then 2 I am thinking ;)
The difference between a midlife transition and midlife crisis is the behavior. Jim Conway addresses this in his materials. In a midlife crisis, the behavior of the MLCer will go against the core values they have held for many years.
This I see... things we have held dear as a couple for 22 years... out the window... poof... applying logic... I can not rationalize... she is a smart woman... but... there it is...
MLC is the result of significant wounding in childhood and at a person's initiatory experience and thus their return to the wounding is a regression wherein they choose to repeat their earlier mistakes in hopes of correcting them rather than applying their experience to make different choices.
And there it is again... childhood... I had so thought we had moved past the childhood issues... I thought that after 22 years of being married and 25 years together... she would have finally gained it would not be an issue... silly as it is... even though every Christmas... thanksgiving and what ever major even there was there it would be again... with her family... then they all would not talk for 6 months and then suddenly out of the blue everyone would pretend nothing had happened...
Then I think... well I am a logical person... wife is smart... I am logical... why cant we just sit down and connect the dots and then move on... but no... I have to wait for her to go on her own personal journey... All to much for a simple IT geek who wants to just apply logic to everything :) Not saying I can't learn... on the bright side... I am stupid stubborn..
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Then I think... well I am a logical person... wife is smart... I am logical... why cant we just sit down and connect the dots and then move on... but no... I have to wait for her to go on her own personal journey... All to much for a simple IT geek who wants to just apply logic to everything :) Not saying I can't learn... on the bright side... I am stupid stubborn..
Welcome to the club of logical people that just think one could sit down, connect the dots, sort matters out and solve the case. ;D
But, no, no sir, we have to wait for them to go through their personal journey.
Of course, we get the logic of the journey applied to the MCLer but... grrrr...I think it is our life test: you cannot aply logic to MLC! ::)
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Of course, we get the logic of the journey applied to the MCLer but... grrrr...I think it is our life test: you cannot aply logic to MLC! ::)
And today's lesson ladies and gentleman is unapplied logic... ;) or would it be applied illogical? Next week... bending spoons with your mind... After that.... when does 1 not equal 1. I have heard there are cases...
Me.
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And today's lesson ladies and gentleman is unapplied logic... ;) or would it be applied illogical? Next week... bending spoons with your mind... After that.... when does 1 not equal 1. I have heard there are cases...
Loved the applied illogical. Should be made a college subject: applied illogical, methods to advanced MLC. ;D
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Loved the applied illogical. Should be made a college subject: applied illogical, methods to advanced MLC. ;D
That is funny... I was thinking the same thing... I just didnt write it down...
Amazing... really
Me.
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Loved the applied illogical. Should be made a college subject: applied illogical, methods to advanced MLC. ;D
That is funny... I was thinking the same thing... I just didnt write it down...
Amazing... really
Thoughts Transmission? ;D Shall we open a course on the subject? We will get rich! ;D
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"Is MLC more prevalent than currently believed?"
I just think the whole world is going nuts. I really do. Is that pessimistic? ( sorry - I'm trying to change that negative thinking :) ) About mid-life crisis, I think, when it comes to mental illness, in general, there really isn't enough acceptance. It's my feeling that, mid-life crisis will only become more common, even though I don't have any immediate examples of it in my life aside from him.
Edited: I know it isn't possible for the whole world to be nuts. There are way too many good people, places, experiences and so much more, for that to be true!
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Agree with yoy, Star, midlife crisis will become more common. Just like depression (without or with MLC).
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I become pessimistic, but then I read posts from stargazergirl thundar and annej and then well not so much... I take an immense amount of comfort in I am not alone anymore. I am a stupid, pathetic stubborn fool who is in love with his wife. I listen to music... Music from all over the place from the classics like bethhoven's 9th... I so want to see that live... to coldplay to Peter Gabriel's dont give up you have got friends to Twisted sister's we are not gonna take it to Natalie Merchant's My skin. Now if I where clever like Stargazergirl I would link them all to youtube versions but... well I am inherently lazy... ;)
Music is the sound track of my life... I wish I could hug you all... I think I said before I am not a touchy feely person and infact protect my personal space veraciously... keep back at least 6 inches if you dont mind... but to you all *a great big hug*
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May the Lord make his face to shine upon you,
and be gracious to you.
May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you,
and give you peace.
If anyone one knows where I can go see bethhovens 9th live let me me know... Ode to Joy... my wifes middle name is joy :/
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I become pessimistic, but then I read posts from stargazergirl thundar and annej and then well not so much... I take an immense amount of comfort in I am not alone anymore. I listen to music... Music from all over the place from the classics like bethhoven's 9th... I so want to see that live... to coldplay to Peter Gabriel's dont give up you have got friends to Twisted sister's we are not gonna take it to Natalie Merchant's My skin. Now if I where clever like Stargazergirl I would link them all to youtube versions but... well I am inherently lazy... ;)
Music is the sound track of my life... I wish I could hug you all... I think I said before I am not a touchy feely person and infact protect my personal space veraciously... keep back at least 6 inches if you dont mind... but to you all *a great big hug*
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May the Lord make his face to shine upon you,
and be gracious to you.
May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you,
and give you peace.
If anyone one knows where I can go see bethhovens 9th live let me me know... Ode to Joy... my wifes middle name is joy :/
Aww, thanks Ziggee! :) Sadly, there are way too many of us left behind ~ us, kids, in-laws, cats, dogs. H said I should put my cats to sleep on BD when I asked "what about the cats?". :'( It's so sad. We should have one massive prayer session and maybe that will have some affect. Maybe that will fix the glitch in them, simultaneously, and they'll wonder how they got to where they are. ;D
Great artists choices! ( yeah, the linking does take forever. )
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Zig said "I am a stupid, pathetic stubborn fool who is in love with his wife."
Same here pal, I don't know why I should be in love with my W after all I have been through (and continuing) but I know that God has set me on this course for a reason. Family and friends do not truly understand my STANDING but I take my vows seriously. They weren't created under qualifications. And I am in agreement that with many of you that this is an epidemic! I know of 5 guys whose W up and left them to find greener pastures on the other side of the fence and leaving the kids with their H. It is rampant and I do see where the bad economy has taken a toll on many of persons. That is no excuse to quit a marriage only to find bandaids to cover the pain. This being done via A, alcohol/partying/drugs, etc. There is an "oh well, life is too short" mantra out there that is damaging our children. Zig you are not pathetic, our MLCers are pathetic! But we love them anyway besides their illness. I too wonder in my sitch whether it is MLC at times but there are too many things following the script not to think it is not.
Take care!
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There are times when I think that I see MLC all over the place; others when people (including RCR) remind us that not all break-ups are MLC.
But I personally know of quite a few cases that I am positive are MLC. In once case there is a standing H (even though he doesn't call it standing), in the others the couples are divorced, likely because the LBS had absolutely no idea what was happening. Perhaps in some they agreed to it, I don't know.
I also know of cases that clearly aren't.
So yes, I do think it is more widespread than we may think....
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Is MLC more prevalent than currently believed?
I think, sometimes, it is just a case of us noticing it more because we are going through it!
One thing, I have noticed though, is that some RL friends recognize it immediately and that always surprises me. :o
I don't know anyone who is going through it currently in my circle of acquaintances, however, I do get people coming to tell me about cases they have heard of where the WAS comes back years later.
My FIL definitely went through it and my FIL attempted a comeback about a year after he left but my MIL would have none of it, she wasn't prepared to take him back in the state he was in. He died 4 years later of alcoholism related disease. She loved him to her dying breath - she died 13 years after him. :'(
There is a couple in my church who admit to having gone through something similar (5 years separated, even divorced) and now are back together and immensely happy - they are about 5/6 years older than my husband and I and if I remember rightly, this happened to them about 10 years ago.
I agree with
Ziggee
"I think most people go through dozens of transitions"
Possibly so, but we are specifically referring to midlife here.
"the big differances is how one copes and what support systems are in place etc
Yes, since MLC is the result of lack of emotional development from an earlier age, I agree the coping skills in the MLCer are greatly lacking. I'm not sure what you mean by support systems, but I'm not sure most MLCers look for that once the crisis has begun.
But I think there it is... the difference between a transition and an MLC is... history and how you feel about yourself... what happened in your childhood maybe. How comfortable you are in your own skin... How you feel about your self and your roll in the universe. Maybe... maybe not.. I am just thinking out loud here... thats what we do here right?
I think the support systems have to do with one's FOO. I see my h. flounder simply because he has always had a faulty support system within his FOO. He looks to his sisters for support and they are unable to help him. OTO, my support system, FOO and church have been pillars of strength for me as I face the unimaginable in my life, without making it easy for me.
Just my opinion.
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Aww, thanks Ziggee! :) Sadly, there are way too many of us left behind ~ us, kids, in-laws, cats, dogs. H said I should put my cats to sleep on BD when I asked "what about the cats?". :'( It's so sad. We should have one massive prayer session and maybe that will have some affect. Maybe that will fix the glitch in them, simultaneously, and they'll wonder how they got to where they are. ;D
Great artists choices! ( yeah, the linking does take forever. )
I recall about a year ago... maybe more... I have really had time depth perception... but they tried to plan a day where they would get as many people in the world to all jump at the exact same time and see if they could "move the world"
Oh wait... see look how mad my depth perception is... it was in 2006 5 years... one year in the grand scheme least I had the decade right.
http://www.worldjumpday.org/
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"http://www.worldjumpday.org/ (http://www.worldjumpday.org/)"
I wonder what the results were for that. Prayers worked for my kitties last week though, when I thought they very, very sick. Turns out they were just fine. Now I need prayers that I'll get the money to pay for the vet bill by the end of this month :)
"Agree with yoy, Star, midlife crisis will become more common. Just like depression (without or with MLC)."
Annej, I agree. And if depression and other metal illnesses were actually accepted more and dealt with properly, at any age, it would reduce a lot of future problems for many people including potential future mlc's.
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I become pessimistic, but then I read posts from stargazergirl thundar and annej and then well not so much... I take an immense amount of comfort in I am not alone anymore. I am a stupid, pathetic stubborn fool who is in love with his wife.
Thanks, ziggee. I think everyone here is stubborn. Otherwise we would not be here.
If not in love, people here still love the spouse. Even if in a more mature, friendly way as I do. MLC changes the way one loves our spouse. At least I think it does.
There is a couple in my church who admit to having gone through something similar (5 years separated, even divorced) and now are back together and immensely happy - they are about 5/6 years older than my husband and I and if I remember rightly, this happened to them about 10 years ago.
Helas, Mitzapah, there really is some light at the end of the tunnel! Also, a proof that divorce, in itself, does not put an end to things. IMHO in can even, in certain cases, allow for a better future together. Nice to know that couple’s story ended well. It is important to hear from people that have been thought MLC and are already some years, or decades, past it.
"Annej, I agree. And if depression and other metal illnesses were actually accepted more and dealt with properly, at any age, it would reduce a lot of future problems for many people including potential future mlc's.
Depression, I think is already quite accepted. Don’t think it would avoid MLC. My husband had been depressed before the crises, and had stress burnout. It did not prevent the crisis from happening. Or maybe, the problem was that the depression and stress burnout were treated with medicines but no one made us a plan for how to prevent it from happening again (husband had had more than two stress burnouts with depression and I’ve had a stress burnout), not teach us ways for dealing with the situation.
Now, for me, it is different. One of my cousins had a huge depression. I would say it was a MLC but mild. No affair, just dissatisfaction with life, job, complaining of being old (he, like my husband, was about being 37 when it started, is now 40 and only a couple of months ago had he, finally, come out of the darkness). On the other hand, only because I have a husband in MLC was I able to notice some of the symptoms and reactions were similar to my husband’s ones.
My cousin situation, and what he has been told us about the years of anger, frustration, fog, and darkness, even if in a much, much milder way than my husband’s situation, provides both with an insight into depression, the stress modern life places upon a man reaching midlife and with a family that is much more benevolent with my husband’s destruction
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I guess you are right about depression Anne. It is recognized. In my personal experience with depression, I don't feel I was ever able to get any help from anyone but myself through reading, trying different remedies ( never any real drugs ~ no thanks ;) ), etc. . Over the years I've been to several people who, I feel, just didn't get it. I guess I'm drawing my thoughts from that.
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Star, medicines are needed in depression. To balance the unbalanced chemicals in our brain. Doctors, in the past, got the general idea but that was it, except, perhaps, my husband's company doctor. He tried to tell my husband that we both needed a much quieter, simple life. Husband was not capable of listening. He needed to have a new life!
My cousin spent 1,5 years with medicines and a bunch of doctors. None of them did it any good. Until, one day, he had a terrible down. My other cousins went I brought him back to our family home and I talked to a doctor friend of mine. Since my friend is looking after him but cousin become much better in a few months. My friend is young, knows moder life, knows depression and mental illness very well (works in a state psyciatrich hospital and does emergency psychatry on a state general hospital)m knows me and what have happened with my husbad, was already aware, by ne, of the familu mental history. It made all the difference.
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For me I am not so much concerned with whether MLC is more prevalent than society believes it to be; I am more concerned with the two groups--MLC is real or MLC is prevalent versus MLC is not real or barely real--not prevalent.
I see articles that claim MLC is a myth (hate that term since myth is not synonymous with false). But the articles usually go on to state it is a myth because it is not either prevalent/common/rampant or because it is not inevitable/guaranteed.
I spoke to someone on another marriage forum who came to the MLC discussion and said she was not having marital problems but was at the forum and in the MLC discussion because these things were what happen to people at a certain point and she wanted to be prepared. :o I don't know if she meant it, but from her words, she actually believed it was a guarantee that her husband would have a midlife crisis--he would cheat and leave her.
The infidelity rate is somewhere around 69%--there are a lot of various stats and who knows which are accurate. But if it is true that 69% of people cheat--or is it that there is infidelity in 69% of marriages and maybe in some cases both cheat... well if it's of people, there is 31% who do not cheat and many of those 69% are likely married to each other which means it is probably more than 31% of marriages that have no infidelity.
I don't want to cry epidemic regarding MLC because to me it doesn't matter. I think 8% is a lot, but the articles saying it's a myth say that it is only 8% or only 25%...often of people surveyed said they had an MLC.
And consider if 8% of people have an MLC--that is of ALL people--then won't it seem more concentrated to those of us in the MLC age range? Or will t seem less concentrated? Or will it seem like anything?
I guess the question is, how do they determine 8%. Ask people who are 80 if they had one? There is a difference between 8% of people have had or are presently having an MLC versus 8% will have an MLC. If 8% will have one, that means 8% of people in the age range are either now having one, just through or will have one, but there are people outside of the age range who had their MLC which brings the total population above 8%--or does it. Statistics turn my brain to mush and now I've lost myself!
Well, we all know that MLCers deny MLC--and those who come through often deny or still fail to recognize it. So self-reporting is perhaps the least reliable method. So how should data be collected--is it a realistic thing to collect due to the difficulties?
Self-reporting--NO
Survey Therapists: NO, not even those who believe in MLC...MLCers avoid therapy, but evenso therapists have an isolated population, people who come to them with and for personal problems...so even though MLCers avoid therapy, there still may be more in therapy comapred to the general therapy population.
Survey friends and family: Well yeah, but how do you do that? Some parents will be in denial. Surveying the new friends...No they have nothing for comparison.
Survey the spouse...this is the best, but consider the difficulties.
Let's say we are looking at MLC in men--women would be another survey. The research team wants a popultation of 1000 men between 38 and 53. I know,some are older and some are even younger, but the research needs to have limits.
So who ae we surveying, married men, all men in the range, only men who have been married--though they may not be married? Maybe men who either are married or who have recently been married...sincve we are trying to determine the present prevalence of MLC and not if the 53 year old had one at 38.
So the first challenge is simply choosing the population.
Let's say we select Married men and those who separated or divorced within the last 7 years.
Now who do we interview within the circles of those men?
The men themselves--it would be unfair to make a determiniation/diagnosis without interviewing them. Their wives, what about alienators...
The interview techniques would need to differ for each member of the circle--ask the alienator or new girlfriend questions designed to tease out whether she used Emotional Blackmail and was a mate predator, but do it without assuming since she may be an innocent new girlfirend--the ex-wife may have even been the MLCer...
How do you find the ex-wives--or those who are almost exes? Will they agree to be interviewed, will the MLCer...?
Another method could be to interview the circles around couples who divorced or have filed for divorce/separation and compare them to a control of those who have been steadily married. The group between steady married and divorced/separated would be selected according to divorce statistics for that age range and include almost divorces stats--maybe 10% who file stop the process and reconcile--so if 10% of people between 38 and 53 divorce, 110 of the total 1000 (110 to account for the % who reconcile) would be from the divorced/separated group.
I think in many ways newbie LBSs are the worst to ask--they survey questions would isolate them to only discussing their spouse and noth others they think could be MLC. We see MLC in every situation. If someone tells me their spouse has a girlfriend, you bet my mind races to MLC and I wonder. I do the same thing when I simply here a couple is divorcing. An emotionally-bonded affair will look like MLC, it may even bring a midlife transition to a crisis level--thus creating the MLC. But just because an affair is emotionally-bonded and the married betrayer is within the MLC age range does not mean it is MLC. It's still a good question to ask, but it is not a certainty.
Years ago Lingy and I were chatting on the phone--it was the early days of MLC for us and we chatted all the time--okay, so we kept it up in the late days and until her death. But this was across the holidays--between Christmas and New Year's. She got another call, it was her son who is a couple of years older than I am. He was on his 2nd marriage--his first failed after the death of their newborn child--death at birth due to the Doctor's misconduct. He'd since been married about 5 years or so--and he married his current wife son after his divorce, though they were not together during his first marriage. Well, he was calling to tell Lingy he was leaving his wife and that he had a girlfriend.
Lingy called me right back and went straight to MLC. Later she visited our counselor--the psychic I've talked about. Well, the psychic confirmed that it was MLC; she's a great friend and all, but I don't buy into everything she says, I use my own judgment too. Lingy was in a state of shock. Her MLCer was at the older end of the range--49 at Bomb and now mid 50s and now her son (his stepson, she was older than her MLCer) was near the younger end of the range at about 38.
He returned to his wife--within a few weeks I believe. But the relationship was very rocky. Why? She had been an addict when they met and he helped her get clean and get her kids back...so guess what...she was on drugs again. Sweetheart worked with her and said she took months off of work--many many months over a year or 2. She would be back for a few days or weeks and then gone again--medical leave for rehab.
MLC my a$$! He stuck with her throughout those few years. I don't know how things are now--she no longer works with Sweetheart and since contacting Lingy is not really an option I don't get any news. But he became determined to make it work--kind of like a Stander. But initially he got labeled as the betraying partner, the bad guy, the one with the problem. Well, yeah he had coped with a difficult home situation by having an affair, but his affair was not due to MLC and when he stopped it, he took measures to make sure it was definitely over.
Looking back with all the facts in place, a person would dismiss MLC, but in the initial moments MLC seemed a good guess, it was an affair, he was leaving and he was just at the tip of the age range.
What makes something prevalent anyway?
Is 8% rare and 51% prevalent?
I'd like it if the cancer odds were 8%, but they are in the high 20s. I'd love it if the divorce rate were 8%; relative to now that would be rejoicingly low.
When it comes to MLC it is often discussed regarding inevitability rather than prevalence. ::) Well it is absolutely not an inevitability that every person or every man who lives long enough will have an MLC--it is inevitable that he will have an MLT--midlife transition; it's also inevitable that every person who lives to 20 will go through their teen years. :P
If MLC were 1 in a million I think we'd be blowing things out of proportion--except that we wouldn't be here to do that. Some people simply have a problem with the term because it isolatse the crisis to a specific age range and similar crises may be experienced at other age ranges and they may be completely separate from the person's age. I understand--the marriageadvocates forum is one of these--but we are using a term that is already accepted. If I were to make up some term that was more accurate, you would not have found this site because you went in search of midlife crisis information when you plugged it into Google.
I think there are times when the divorce rate goes up--such as the present economic downturn. Such a downturn is also something that can trigger an MLC. It doesn't mean there is an overall trend (or not) of increasing cases, it just means that in this economic climate there may be an increase and it may decrease when the econcomy turns around. But MLC triggers take a few years to get to Replay and Bomb Drop, so the increase in new MLC cases may remain high for a few years after the economy turns better. The rate of MLC is conditional with the socio-political climate. I wonder if there was a greater surge of MLC among New Yorkers from 2002 to 2006 than in other areas? And in New Orleans after Katrina?
And then some will use those traumas to change positively...
I understand the turn your midlife crisis into...a journey, positive experience... blah blah blah crap. I like the concept, but I find it annyoing. It is using the term crisis to apply to most people within the age range to give the idea that it is prevalent. Well MLT is certainly prevalent! But by saying MLC can be turned into... dismisses and discounts the crisis that it is. It can even enables MLCers in their destructive lifestyles.
Okay, I've rambled on long enough...
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Maybe it is not more prevalent than it used to be, we are just more aware of it. We are older, we know the symptons, we can recognise the behaviours.
When you are a kid, a teenager, even a younger adult, one is not looking around, we're concentrated on ourselves.
Well, no need to do interviews, just field work, like when your're observing geological factors or animals. Of course you would still need a group or situation to study. Let's say all men between 30 and 65 you come across, and see what behaviour they have. And, fo course, you will need the study to go on for years.
But, given that MLC, like RCR said, MLC is conditional with the socio-political climate, current one may trigger it up.
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Maybe its like when I bought a Golf..... seemed everyone on the road was driving a golf... or when my son purchased an Mazda 3 everyone was driving a Mazda 3... all Golfs and Mazda 3s on the road these days ;)
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I for one believe that it is far more prevalent than currently believed. I think the internet, FB, cell phones, all the modern technology has made it easier to see. I was 16 and I know that was Dad was going through a crisis. He started to go out with friends, wasn't around as much and one day I found him crying to my mom that " all he was, was a paycheck to us" That was 31 years ago. And I think it was MLC. He was 41 at the time.
I also think that sites like this have made it easier to understand that this does exist and that we, the spouse that has been cheated on, are not alone. I mean come on.. how many people are on this site. If this is not certification that there is a crisis out there I don't know what is.
I think society's view on the throw away family, especially in the modern day and age of 'no fault" divorces that allow one person to desert their family and obligations has just added to this crisis. Makes it easier on the courts systems, horrible for families.
All I know is that one year ago, while not perfect I had a marriage. Today I have myself and a husband that has abandoned every thing I thought he believed in. And for what? Because society says it's ok. I for one wish that it was something that the psychological community would get behind, study, understand. My therapist buys in to it, but I think it's because I say so. She thinks my H is a total idiot, who may be suffering from depression, and has lost all sense of what is normal in a family. Sounds like MLC to me. So I guess she really does agree with me.
IF this isn't real, then what the he!! has all this pain and agony that I have been put through about? If it is just a myth or fairy tale, or a dream... I'm waiting to Patrick Duffy to come to me and say wake up.. it's all over now.
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I have mentioned this before, but my H, having experienced this (still is?) says this is a very true phenomenon. After all, our government has now named "withdrawal from caffeine" an actual condition. Maybe they would admit MLC "exists" if there was treatment for it that can be billed through insurance...
H was either a cheating dog that went nuts when he actually had to follow through on it, or it was MLC. He had gone to two therapists and he asked them flat out "what's wrong with me? I don't want to do this. This isn't me. But I do want to do this. I won't/can't go back to W. Is this MLC??" Both therapists denied MLC. They said his problem was "failure to communicate" to me, his W, what made him angry at me (you know the list: I gained weight, didn't pay enough attention, paid more attention to the kids, gave up my career for the kids...yada yada yada).
My own therapist denied it also. my H must have always been this way, he told me, and I simply ignored it.
H won't see therapists now. He says MLC exists and he feels it and therapists are useless (according to him). He can feel it in his hormones and in his thinking. Even though he is healing at home, he acknowledges his issues with his dad (want to please Dad vs. doesn't want to be like him) and conflicting feelings of being needed (the kids need me too much vs. they don't need me anymore, they have their lives) and age and dying (he just got liposuction on his love-handles). His surgeon even said to me (and he didn't know our MLC storm story at all) "oh, this is typical. He's in that stage of life. I see it all the time. what do they call it? MLC right? Keeps me in business." Ha ha.
However, H, a physician, sees the depression/acceptance/struggle and self-centered teenage way of thinking he is in. Fortunately, seeking an OW is not an option anymore, but I wouldn't put it past him to buy something huge and ridiculously unnecessary.
H has medication handy and is extremely focused on his behavior and ability to handle the direction of his life. I think he meets the personality profile of someone likely to have MLC and even tho the storm was relatively quick, it was/is MLC. He swears it.
Sometimes I wonder if he uses it as an excuse, but he is profoundly remorseful. He says that he thought everyone could tell in the initial stages of his numbness that he was "all wrong" but he obviously kept that to himself. Again, as i've said before, he was reality-challenged.
I choose to follow the theory that it was/is MLC. Like autism, we are aware of it, it is referred to now, and discussed and studied and, in our modern world, to give in to MLC (do whatever it takes to be happy -- even if you rolling over innocent people to do it) is acceptable.
Just my opinion.
angelgirl
home rebuilding
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H said I should put my cats to sleep on BD when I asked "what about the cats?".
Whoa SGG...my H made the same comment to me, and it flipped me out. Couldn't believe what I was hearing since we'd just spent a fortune flying them back to the states from the Pacific Islands.
If I hadn't been in shock at the time, I probably would have asked him if he'd been smoking crack or what?
That's a smart a$$ comment the kids say to me when they think I'm asking them a dumb question.
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Angelgirl and Tsunami, I think about what you said angel all the time. I can't believe this condition exists and is so obvious. I also am glad my sister was able to be there and remind me "he's in the tunnel leave him be" What your H is saying to you is what I think my H is experiening right now. This fuzzy foggy stumbling around in a a life that's happening to him and he's just along for the ride. They can't see the consequences obviously. Delusional. That's part of the reason I can Stand. I know something is wrong and it appears temporary and fake and fuzzy ???
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MB, the main thing that kept me Standing, was the belief that this was MLC and that there would be an exit out of the tunnel. The doubt that he may be changed forever, in way that is not consistent with my belief system, lurked over head of course, but the hope that MLC was survivable is all that kept me going. God kept some details from me until now, I think, so that I could muster the courage to keep going.
I repeat my story only because, as quick as it seemed, my H went from being done with us, with a distinct finality, to being truly dedicated to us and at peace. he just said yesterday that usually around this time his seasonal depression would have kicked in full force, but he doesn't feel it at all. The "dying" trees and retreating sunlight are not the enemies. He does say tho, that he's prepared the minute he feels those "negative waves".
He is an example of someone going through this and saying that "Standing with time limits and boundaries" was what got him to the other side. So please keep the faith...
angelgirl
rebuilding
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MB, the main thing that kept me Standing, was the belief that this was MLC and that there would be an exit out of the tunnel.
From day to day... really that is what I am placing my faith in. On dark days I think that maybe I am just deluding myself and that maybe this is the real her. She told me that the last 22 years she was not her self and she was just trying to please everyone and now it is her time.
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Angelgirl, I can remember 2 months before BD this past Feb he was in bed rubbing my face and kissing my eyebrows telling me how beautiful I was. Then out the door down the street. He literally RAN away to bowser ows place. I knew right away he was out of his normal self. Nothing made sense until this site and my sister's story of her H and his return. I can go day to day doing ALL the work for our kids and house etc...but Man O' Man the MLCer has NO IDEA of what we're going through. I knew that when he said last week " Ya know, we never even talked about any of this." :o :o :o :o :o That's thanks to the good ole No R talk rule I follow. LOL LOL
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Ziggee,
She told me that the last 22 years she was not her self and she was just trying to please everyone and now it is her time.
Definitely MLC script. I heard the exact thing.
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Ziggee,
She told me that the last 22 years she was not her self and she was just trying to please everyone and now it is her time.
Definitely MLC script. I heard the exact thing.
Mine said the same thing and that this had been going on since he was a teenager, when he met me :o 33 years ago...