Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Still on August 22, 2010, 05:45:42 PM
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I know a few of us on here have what I have heard called the "low energy MLC'er". My understanding is that these MLC'ers are typically the ones who do not leave the home, do not do the crazy spending, have more of a fantasy than an actual uprooting of their life, and seem to be more likely to have an "internal" MLC.
I am curious as to what anyone else has read or experienced.
EDIT: RCR has now renamed this term Wallower
Here is the thread with the discussion about the name
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2399.0
Blog article
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=1023
Edit - another thread on High vs Low energy
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1301.0
EDIT:
Link back to contact types to register your MLC type
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1530.0
Oldpilot
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RCR has referred to my MLCer as a "low-energy type". Basically, he shows signs of overt depression throughout the crisis but not the liminality that is a stage. His behaviors are just very depressive. He never spent a lot, never did any crazy partying or risky behavior. He has been carrying on an EA which started 18 months ago. He was home for about a year after BD April 09 and BD again in April 10 this time saying he wanted to leave. He has displayed some antics since leaving but they are mostly aimed at me and are kept secret. Nothing to crazy. So him and OW are still quiet. This could change as he progresses but I don't know. Other people might not see it as MLC but I see the children, monster, script and cycling.
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Interesting, Buggy. Thank you for your input. Yes, RCR first mentioned that I had a low energy MLC in a conversation I had with her well over a year ago.
She told me that he may leave, but that all of his behaviors indicate a "low energy MLC'er". I wonder if they are more likely to have an EA, than a PA.
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You may want to review Amazing's thread in the Coaching Archives also.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=13.0;all (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=13.0;all)
EDIT
You must be a subscriber for this to work.
OldPilot
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I am certain that my W is low energy also.
Her replay antics were mostly spewing and rewritten history.
Everything else is just plain depression.
No excessive spending, in fact exactly the opposite of that an obsession about money in general.
No risky behavior.
Very secretive and some lying.
I agree with Buggy as hard to see as MLC but when all get said and done I am sure it is.
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This sounds a lot like what my wife is going through as well. There was the EA, and the spewing and rewritten history.
I've known that she was looking for places to live, but tonight was a surprise to me -- more that she told me, pretty much out of the blue; she's talked about leaving or running away on several occasions.
Of course, we're nearing our 10th anniversary, and a year from the bomb drop. Her 34th birthday is in a week as well.
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Wow, so much about Amazing's story is so similar to mine. It seems like even though there are so many similarities with MLC'ers, there are also numerous subcategories.
Thanks for drawing that to my attention, RCR.
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Still that is a good question, how many subcategories of MLC are there(I would say according to RCR) and what are they?
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My H is also low-energy MLC. no excessive spending or affair just the need for lots of space, individual time. Just found out that he wants to travel, see places. First time I've heard of this! And I reacted the wrong way...oh well, I'm back on track.
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My wife has been low energy so far, but I have a feeling that things are going to change soon. After her emotional affair she told me that she just wanted space. Then came the monster and the negativity, the 10 years of crappy marriage, the 'I was mentally ill when I married you'. Then more space.
I feel in some ways that space was the wrong thing to give her - but truth is that it doesn't really matter what I do or did. She used the space and time to emotionally disconnect. To do what I should be doing and detach. As the weeks and months progressed she became more detached until now it feels like she has only resentment for me. She is being really careful to not engage me at the moment.
She has been spending more money. Her brilliant OM told her to make her own account - it's the 21st century. So she did and we proportionately divided our bills and income. She spends money on clothes and make up. Dresses in clothes that late teens/early 20 year olds would wear. Some things look good, other things just don't work for her.
She changes her story about things pretty routinely. Isn't too reliable. Disconnected from the kids too at first, but has improved her relationship with them. Still doesn't help in the mornings or at bedtime though.
Earlier today I noticed that she had looked for a mediation lawyer in our web history ... so it seems like the low energy might be coming to an end after 16 months. The low energy, stay at home MLC really changed after her trip to the UK.
I'm not cut out for the rejection and my brain almost hurts sometimes in trying to understand it all.
I have a question. What do non MLC divorces look like? Are they similar?
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What do non MLC divorces look like? Are they similar?
I don't have the answer to that question. However, I have known many, many people who have divorced that it was an agreement between the two that it was in the best interest of everyone. I would hope that most people who divorce decide together.
On the other hand, my own daughter was blindsided by a divorce request in her 3rd year of marriage. No real reason....he just wasn't happy. Now, he is doing all he can to be her friend and to date. They are in their early 20's, so no MLC component.
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Thank you for bumping it up. I would love to read Amazing's thread but don't have access to it. Can it be posted here?
I have a low energy MLCer for sure!! I am at work so I will post more later tonight. He is peeking out right now and beginning to see just how much he has missed - like he was in a time warp or something. Interesting...
-Pup
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Amazing has never posted here. Her story is only in the Coaching Archives and was mostly through email. She continued to PM me for awhile but never put her story public on this board, so I did not continue to make her PMs public. I had permission for making the emails public from all those in the Archives that I worked with before the start of the forum.
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I have a low energy MLCer for sure!! I am at work so I will post more later tonight. He is peeking out right now and beginning to see just how much he has missed - like he was in a time warp or something. Interesting...
Pup,
I am anxious to read your observations when you have time. Is this the first time you have seen this? Might it be a touch and go?
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Hello Still and Everyone!
Well - are things better? A smidgen.
Some things I have noticed throughout wretched ordeal are that my H rarely makes eye contact with me and when he does its with a very guarded yet angry look. Affection and any meaningful communication are completely off the table, even though we still live together.
For the last 2 weeks I have had the sensation that the EA is truly over. Even when my H has ducked out for an hour or two which would normally get my defenses going, I look and see his cell phone is left home.
A few nights ago my H's biking partners asked me why he was blowing off their emails and texts - not responding. I said I didn't know - but I was oddly relieved that its not just me he's avoiding!
Last week I asked my H to take my S18 on college visits since my S17 had three days "off" from school. Getting my H involved in the college search (or anything else for that matter) has been very difficult - one of his triggers IMO, but I had to work, so my H obliged and they went off for two days.
The morning that they left, I had to meet with our accountant so I could be clear on my H's business activity, as it is reflected on our taxes and comes into play with college financial aid qualification, and the business end hadn't been done yet. Before doing so I stopped by my H's office to pick up reports that he had to run for
the accountant. Up until this year I have worked for my H doing all of the financials, so he has had to take this over in my forced absence. Let me say... I hadn't been in that office in probably 2
months. What a complete mess it was! It was DIRTY and disorganized and the
reports were done wrong to boot. My H is a clean freak so clearly this is not his desire! My H seemed very harried and somewhat defensive. I was sitting behind my old desk and caught him kinda looking at me like he missed the days I used to sit there - a bit remorseful...just a bit. I kept my cool, didn't say anything about the conditions, fixed the reports and went on my way.
Since my H has returned from the college trip he has taken a more active role in the
college look. He has been researching on his own and taking a sincere interest. I asked him to review the financials and it is amazing the things he just doesn't remember. He is an extremely smart person, but his memory is really shot.
I see that he realizes this and I think it is scaring him a bit. It's really a bit scary how many things he doesn't remember. I do wonder about mental illness...is this a phase or truly a mental illness just coming to light? If so - is it treatable?
So - ystdy when he left for work it seemed like he wanted to hug me but I kept
my distance, not noticeably so, I just busied myself a bit. Last night he came home and cooked dinner, then he went to bed before me - left the t.v. on in the bedroom for me to have some light when I went up - had my side of the bed
all made and fluffed up for me - had a candle lit in the bathroom for me (one that he would have actually had to go get and set up himself - wasn't in there). So - that took some effort.
He is looking me in the eye more. He seems to have a softening of heart a bit. I told him I was going to work out tonight and he asked me about what time I'll be going because we're expecting 2 feet of snow and rough driving conditions.
Two nights earlier I had a dream that I was driving very slowly down a road - as if I was just starting out to travel someplace. I saw two large items on the side of the road. When I approached one I saw it was my H's body as he looked when we got married. The other item was my H now, deceased, as if he passed twice - once at 22, and once at 42. Maybe this is the sign of rebirth? That is what I am telling myself. The dream felt sooo real. I woke up and couldn't catch my breath and still can't get it out of my mind.
For us to get "back" completely, I will absolutely insist on therapy, for him individually
as well as for us as a couple, because there is NO WAY in hell I will ever go
through this again - but right now I think I need to let him get some footing
back in the family a bit and get a bit stable before pursuing anything else. He
seems to be trying and he seems to be confused as well. Or this may just be a touch and go.
Or maybe I am just imagining things? I have all kinds of fears...one being that I won't be open to his feelings IF they do return.
I am keeping a polite but warm distance and just working on myself and kids right now. I have been hurt too much to get excited at this point.
Thank you for reading my disjointed post. It is hard to squeeze it all in at work, but I wanted to get it out there because your feedback and thoughts are soooo important to me!
Thanks for listening... -Pup
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Pup,
That is a very interesting situation. I really liked the part about fluffing your side and lighting a candle in the bathroom. MLC seems to completely rob them of any ability to see beyond their own needs and desires. When they reach out beyond (even if only for a moment in time) it is very refreshing.
The best thing you can do is remain detached and watch for consistent patterns of caring behaviors. If he is really trying to reconnect, you will be able to tell over time.
You seem to be a good state of mind. Keep working on you!
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I have all kinds of fears...one being that I won't be open to his feelings IF they do return.
I have also a low energy MLCer and some of what UP wrote happened to us. My h's friends told me that they haven't seen him in quite some time. He has also pulled back from them. And based on some updates on the alt for him, he switched gyms. I don't know if he's still going to the other gyms as he has many friends there.
Be safe out there! We are expecting a blizzard here and LOTS of snow
Keep up the good work ;)
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So can an MLCer change from High energy to low energy?
I don't think my H fits this description though as he has ow.
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Pup,
I completely agree with Still. Keep the detachment going. They are like little kids....they want more of what they have less of.
This actually hit me the other day. A few weeks ago, my H made reference to his MLC (yes, he acknowledges it fully). He wasn't looking to discuss, just mentioned it. I was in an impatient mood and I said "I know, I know...the midlife crisis: you don't want what you have and you want what you don't have....that sums it up". He looked at me sort of suprised but didn't argue the point.
At any rate, my point that is relevant to your story Pup, is just that detachment seems to be the only time they start to come around, however slowly. I think this is a really tricky time. You can't detach completely or they will look elsewhere for ego needs. But you have to at least a bit because then the start to realize what they are losing. I just think so much of the MLC is about taking for granted what you have. Like a child does.
Bonnie
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I guess my H is a Low Energy MLCer - as there appears to be no alienator (except his Mother!!!).
Not sure how this will all play out. Does Replay last longer - as there is no alienator to have relationship issues/fight with?
Does Replay end sooner - as their is no alienator to pump him up and help him avoid his issues? (His parents seem to be filling this role, I guess??)
Time will tell. I know that I couldn't live with my parents, at this point in my life. (He's been at his folks for almost 6 months).
L
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I beleive that replay may end sooner for these types however the other stages may last longer and be more volatile.
They still must face their issues and although they are not trying to run away for as long, trying to reconnect can be very difficult.
Thats my .02
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limitless
I can't speak to all low energy MLC'ers, but I believe my H's replay lasted about 18 months. His withdrawal/depression stage seems to go on and on and on. His replay was very evident in his choice of movies, working excessively, changing clothing, frequently going to concerts, hanging out, use of certain words, watching movies with a lot of sexual acting out, constantly traveling to concerts/sporting events/visiting friends, and training, training and training.
Now, he never rents any movies, hasn't traveled to any concerts, is back to wearing his original clothing, talks more like his age, hasn't hung out with friends in close to a year now....
What is left, is a very miserable, unhappy person who can only tolerate family time in very short snippets. He no longer attends church, rarely wants to go out to eat as a family, and basically pops in and out of our lives....no rhyme or reason to it.
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Still:
This is what I experienced last night, after having such a lovely night the night before. I set the table for dinner, my 3 children and I sat down to eat, and he took his plate and ate in the family room by himself. wth? My kids and I didn't know what to do although it was very apparent something was wrong! I finally asked him in front of my kids because we couldn't ignore the elephant in the room any longer and I don't want my kids to think it is anything they have done. If there are stages - he was 5 yrs old last night.
and could someone please tell me why oh why oh why they say they want to leave, say they are going to leave, but never leave? What is the meaning behind all of that?
thanks - just frustrated today. -Pup
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UHP, my xh told me at BD (Oct. 09) that he was "unhappy" and didn't really know what was wrong but he too wanted to leave. He said he felt he needed to be alone.........without anybody. He moved out in Dec. 09.......again, he wanted to be alone........without anybody..........only for me to later discover the OW. I asked him several times how does that play into his "not wanting anybody"..........he never could answer that question. I hounded him for a while about that statement and how does it all fit.......saying something like that and then having an OW in the picture. I knew something was totally not right. That's when I did the research and decided it was MLC. My xH still says he doesn't want "anybody"..........no more OW (as far as I know)......he says he doesn't want another serious relationship and never wants to marry.........ever again. I'd like to understand that very same question (Why do they say they plan to leave and then don't).......even though mine made up his mind and did it. I think for my xH it was the only way for him to get away from his pain......because he blamed me. I also feel like it "justified" in his mind having the affair. Not sure.
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There was an EA, yes. I really think that is over. Now he seems more like he has been through a blender and doesn't want to have to call upon his "relationship skills" for any purpose. Not for me, not for my kids, not for his friends. We all feel it.
I think part of the problem is he has never really had a struggle that he had to deal with. I should rephrase that - when there was a struggle, he avoided it. That's probably the crux of it right there. He always took life as it came to him - very laid back - doesn't believe relationships should take effort because up until now he feels that they haven't required effort and shouldn't be so hard. He feels helpless, hopeless and somewhat victimized. It is very frustrating, as you know!
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This is interesting. I guess my MLC'er would probably qualify as low energy. He consistently says he IS divorcing me, but goes between filing "next week" to having "no timeline". He also says he won't move out because it's "his house that he pays for" and he also won't leave the kids. Not sure how he's going to divorce me but not move out or leave his kids. :o He has had one EA that I'm aware of and also spent some time chasing after a 27 year old that he thought might be interested in him. She wasn't. Since then I've been blocked from all cell phone access, but I'm assuming he's still looking at his options. I can't imagine him having a full blown PA... but I'd guess everyone here has felt that way so I'm sure anything is possible.
He spends a ton of time away from home snowmobiling with his friends. He takes 3-4 snowmobile trips every winter, but hasn't taken a vacation with us (even a weekend getaway) for 4 years. When he is here, he spends hours in the basement watching TV. Last weekend he logged a record 13 hours in one day. I had hoped that there was still a part of him that is uncertain about being "done", but the last time I asked him he assured me that the ONLY reason he was still here was to be near his kids. That was a couple months ago and I have vowed to myself to never ask again.
He hasn't done too much crazy spending, except for his trips that we really can't afford. He siphons money from his business to pay for them...which makes me wonder what other financial shinanigans might be going on.
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I beleive that replay may end sooner for these types however the other stages may last longer and be more volatile.
They still must face their issues and although they are not trying to run away for as long, trying to reconnect can be very difficult.
Thats my .02
OP,
Just a quick question.
Why do you think that reconnecting is very difficult or harder for low energy MLC?
L
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limitless,
Personally, I think it is due to the chronic depression that my low energy MLC'er has that will prevent him from making the steps towards reconnecting. He has told me for over 2 years that he is leaving, but hasn't packed a pair of socks. He just doesn't seem to have the energy to make a move either way.
On the other hand, he is almost manic about his work. He is an overachiever and during replay was a major workaholic. He went for over a year on 3-4 hours of sleep at night. He still puts a great deal of energy towards work, but that is about all he has to give. He goes in spurts where he physically trains a lot, then that fizzles for a period of time.
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I beleive that replay may end sooner for these types however the other stages may last longer and be more volatile.
They still must face their issues and although they are not trying to run away for as long, trying to reconnect can be very difficult.
Thats my .02
OP,
Just a quick question.
Why do you think that reconnecting is very difficult or harder for low energy MLC?
L
Not sure I know the reason, although I will think about it, more the observation of cases I have seen.
Low energy MLC'ers tend to not have an OM/OW and I agree with what STILL wrote, lots of depression.
Mostly OVERT depression although during replay it might be covert depression.
I think because there is no OM/OW might be why replay ends faster, just a guess.
But that doesn't mean that all is OK.
If I think of something else I will come back and post it.
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Low energy MLC'ers tend to not have an OM/OW and I agree with what STILL wrote, lots of depression.
I agree with this. However, in my own case and a few others I have followed, there seems to be a "fantasy life" that they want to live. Because they don't actually try to live it, a fantasy is hard to disprove. Just my thoughts.
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I beleive that replay may end sooner for these types however the other stages may last longer and be more volatile.
They still must face their issues and although they are not trying to run away for as long, trying to reconnect can be very difficult.
Thats my .02
OP,
Just a quick question.
Why do you think that reconnecting is very difficult or harder for low energy MLC?
L
Not sure I know the reason, although I will think about it, more the observation of cases I have seen.
Low energy MLC'ers tend to not have an OM/OW and I agree with what STILL wrote, lots of depression.
Mostly OVERT depression although during replay it might be covert depression.
I think because there is no OM/OW might be why replay ends faster, just a guess.
But that doesn't mean that all is OK.
If I think of something else I will come back and post it.
This makes a lot of sense to me. In my H, from BD (and before?) I've seen lots of depression. His fantasy life is living with his parents and running away each weekend to his family's cabin. Not much else that I can see. When I see him (not often) he looks depressed and very uncomfortable. Lots of crying and guilt/shame - when I look in his eyes. Early on, he admitted that the problem was HIM - but seems unable to actually do anything about it.
L
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Lots of crying and guilt/shame - when I look in his eyes. Early on, he admitted that the problem was HIM - but seems unable to actually do anything about it.
L,
I saw the look of shame, too. My H also admitted it was "his" issue in the early crisis....though since he has found ways to blame me.
My H had only one breakdown during all this time. Whenever he seems to get weepy, he has this way of immediately turning it into anger. I am sure because he can control that emotion much easier.
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Lots of crying and guilt/shame - when I look in his eyes. Early on, he admitted that the problem was HIM - but seems unable to actually do anything about it.
L,
I saw the look of shame, too. My H also admitted it was "his" issue in the early crisis....though since he has found ways to blame me.
My H had only one breakdown during all this time. Whenever he seems to get weepy, he has this way of immediately turning it into anger. I am sure because he can control that emotion much easier.
Mine too has had a couple episodes of sadness (not shame though) and telling me that he'll "never be happy again, whether he stays or goes". I have learned to just respond with "it's sad that you feel that way" instead of saying what I REALLY want to say, but then he also quickly turns it into a self-pity fest and blames me. Their self talk amazes me. Recently my H said in a text that he isn't happy. I responded with "I know, and I also know I can't change that." He then said that he is actually happy about 95% of the time, and is only unhappy when "junk happens". That one wasn't even worth responding to. Insanity.
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Same here. Replay was really short, not much anger, rather re-directed anger at me, silence, running away, going out with friends during replay. Depression however has been going on for a very long time. He knew it was him shortly after replay and he didn't blame me.
Now he's in hiding. I have only seen him twice in almost three months and he also pulled back from friends. Still and has always been secretive not one to share much. There must be a lot of hurt from the past :(
from what I know what he told me, his feelings keep "swinging". One day he feels this way another day the opposite...I've stopped analyzing it. I live him with all my heart but he's on his own till he has himself figured out...
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I love him with all my heart but he's on his own till he has himself figured out...
I can completely relate to that, Purple.
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Hey this is pretty interesting and really does kind of validate my theory.
Nice to have everyone post what their low energy MLC'ers do.
Just because I have a theory doesn't make it right....... :) :) :)
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Faith,
Your post really hit me. The comment about being happy 95% of the time - unless Junk Happens.
That is another thing I have been thinking about.
My H almost seems like an innocent bystander in his own life. I think back to things we talked about over the years. My H was married once before - when he was 20 years old. The marriage lasted less than 2 years. I believe his wife left him. (At least that's what HE says). When he spoke of the marriage and the break-up - it was like it just happened to him. Like he had very little say in the matter. A thing that "just happened to him."
It seems like throughout our lives - junk would happen to him. Like he had very little control over his own life.
On BD - he spoke about his first marriage. How happy he and his first wife had been and how things would have been different if he would have, I don't know, actually done something - took some action in that marriage. Of course, this was the last thing I wanted to hear about - when he is telling me that he no longer loves me! This marrage was more than 36 years ago???
I guess that's all part of this. My H never felt he had choice in his own life. It's so funny. The only person keeping him from having choices is himself and he doesn't even see it.
L
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He has told me for over 2 years that he is leaving, but hasn't packed a pair of socks.
On the other hand, he is almost manic about his work. He is an overachiever and during replay was a major workaholic. He went for over a year on 3-4 hours of sleep at night. He still puts a great deal of energy towards work, but that is about all he has to give. He goes in spurts where he physically trains a lot, then that fizzles for a period of time.
Sounds exactly like my H. Mine isn't a bystander in life, like laursecan's. He's analytical and proactive, except where his intimate Rs are concerned. I've told him to go a couple of times, but he comes back. He's not depressed anymore, but still confused.
He's comfortable at home, and so doesn't want to go. But he won't commit to staying.
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Sorry to hijack - this thread is interesting but I am having trouble finding any information or articles about defining low energy and high energy mlcers - i would like to get a sense of where to place mine... any links appreciated!
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An old thread by RCR:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=65.msg12955#msg12955
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This is interesting; I had never thought of my MLCer as low-energy, maybe because I was thinking of how he himself generally is. Which is a hyper hive of activity.
But with regards to his MLC it seems to have slid into a low energy mode.... RCR in her coaching post said that he's blank -- just going along with whoever is making the decisions as long as there is no conflict. He is not Monster.
He was high-energy at first; in full-on Replay. He wouldn't admit to an OW then; now I know there was one, the typical kind. But that ended. Since then he has been drifting a little, keeping on trying one thing after another that turns out not to be the holy grail.
He had a breakdown of sorts after 2 1/2 years; that is when I would say that full-on Replay petered out, but it didn't result in any substantial change.... he is continuing his "new" life. But OTOH he has never tried to pick up the divorce action that he threatened at at the beginning, while in full-on Replay (and clearly under the influence of that OW, I now know...)
In some ways he is living his fantasy; the designer flat, the great car, the holidays. But I know other things aren't so good.
With regards to me he just avoids conflict; is actually very cordial, wants to "help". As long as there isn't any conflict. I guess it's just easier for him to continue this life rather than to try to change it. And he isn't afraid of losing me, i.e. doesn't get jealous -- perhaps that is also because he just doesn't have too many feelings over all?
So I'm putting out there that they can switch modes?
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Sounds like he is in depression/withdrawal stage to me.
I mean all of MLC is depression so is his depression now Overt, or is it still Covert.
To me if he is still in covert depression(masked) then it would not be low-energy.
But that is just my opinion,
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I'm not sure of the definitions of low and high energy here. My H has always had a lot of energy, like Still's H, he puts a huge amount of energy into work and certain other activities, hobbies which have become work. He still seeks out pleasure, just not the manic way he did in full-on replay. It seems more like it's "just how it is after all this time". Like he's used to it.
Although he did do some major renovation work to the flat last summer; I guess that qualifies as high-energy stuff. But his actions towards me aren't monster, they are more "covert conflict" rather than overt -- i.e. not telling me about where he is rather than taunting me.
So his depression is still mostly masked, I guess.... but he's being very passive where I am concerned.
As for him being in depression/withdrawal; well, if he's there, he's been there a long time.... or he's come back to there again. I think in my case the 'stages' are pretty useless, to tell you the truth. But I do know that he hasn't made any final decisions either, he's just drifting.
RCR says, and I think she's right, that he needs to react to some external force. Trouble is, we have no way of knowing what might do it, and I already know that trying to manufacture that force doesn't work.
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T and L,
Your posts really hit me.
I see my H as just drifting, as well.
There is no Monster, actually there was very little of that - even at the beginning.
Now there is just this deafening silence.
The glimpses that I have had are of a man feeling terribly sorry for himself, unable to communicate/relate to his family (me or the kids).
I also think that something needs to happen to shake him up. But, I know that it can't be manufactured - especially by me.
On Friday, I guess when he was at our home (waiting for the insurance man) he just sat in the den watching TV. When my daugher came home from her game - he asked her how practice was. She said that she had had a game. She told him that she had two more next week and I guess he replied that he had the schedule and knew when her games where.
Pre BD, my H never missed our D's games. He is so withdrawn and separated from us - it's like we almost don't even exist anymore. And yet, he takes care of getting us new insurance and he is doing our taxes - (I suppose - although I haven't heard anything more about that).
I also think that the stages are of little importance. Based on time - BD is almost 8 months ago - it's Replay. And I guess his Replay is Avoidance. As my H has a history of avoiding issues until he has no other choice but to address them - this could be a very loooonnnnggg time. With his parents supporting all he does - he can avoid until whenever. There is no pressure for him to do anything, there.
Just some thoughts.
L
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I'm glad I was able to articulate a few things for you, L.
I keep trying to put things into words, and feeling like I'm missing somewhat. Mine isn't unable to communicate, but it's like he keeps me at an arm's length, sort of as if he's making sure that he doesn't get too close. He's better with the kids, though, and is affectionate with them.
Sometimes he sounds like he's purposely trying to be upbeat, and sometimes he almost starts talking like he used to, then catches himself. Often he puts on what I call his "company voice"; the one we all have that we use when we know we have to be polite, but don't want to engage. I know I have one; I use it with my sister a lot.....
And about existing; well, I certainly don't exist for him. With all I have been doing since BD, setting up a business, a website and all that, he hasn't asked one thing about what I'm doing. He asked if I had looked at his company's website, I said I had and asked if he had looked at mine, he said no.
I did once e-mail him some photos that eventually went on the site, this was at a point two years ago when we were talking quite a bit and spending some time together, and he did say that they were very good, but he has never looked or asked of his own volition.
I can't do anything about it if he isn't interested.
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limitless, I can tell by what you write that you are feeling much like I am. I just want SOMETHING to happen to shake my H up and force him to move in one direction or the other. A couple meetings with our pastor didn't do it. His parents also support him in whatever he wants to do. There is just no end in sight. I wonder if I just filed for divorce, or moved out with the kids if that would have an impact, but I just can't bring myself to take that step either.
The sermon in church today was about waiting. The pastor spoke about people who are in pain for extended periods of time and how unfair and hopeless it feels. But then he reminded us that God is doing work that we can't always see, and our job is to take our focus off our circumstances, focus on Him and how he is changing us (in good ways) through our difficult situations. A quote I took away is "God doesn't waste pain". It did encourage me to hang in for a while longer when everything in me wants this to end.
My H still goes to church with us when he's not snowmobiling, but sits hunched over with his face down most of the time. He picks at his fingers, rubs his eyes a lot, anything to distract himself and tune out. He is obviously uncomfortable. Anyway, I guess I have to choose to believe that my pain isn't wasted and there is a greater purpose unfolding. I hope that's true for all of us.
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I wonder if I just filed for divorce, or moved out with the kids if that would have an impact, but I just can't bring myself to take that step either.
Faith,
I would definitely not file for divorce because it may impact your MLC'er. That would likely backfire. They are often wanting the LBS to make that move because they truly are unsure of what they want. Pulling that trigger may go in a direction that you may not be able to stop. So, unless you are 100% positive you are ready to be divorced, I wouldn't suggest using it as a test. Just my thoughts.
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Low energy doesn't mean low thinking. Often, they want the LBSer to pull the trigger or force the hand. They then can blame the LBSer for the end of the marriage or being kicked out.
While mine remains a low energy MLCer, I am aware that I could easily create a high energy MLcer if I push her or draw too many lines in the sand. Right now, she is content to stay in the study, sleep on the floor, and do nothing else.
I have learned that the first thing is to maintain my own high energy and can do attitude around my low energy MLCer. Otherwise, she wallows and we wallow in pain. Now, I have noticed little things in how she reacts to us. She has come out to be with us more. She talks with us a little more. Yet, she then scurries back to her cave and will ignores us for hours.
My belief is that the low energy MLCer takes long because they tend to be in denial and refuse to face the demons that haunt them. They are content to hide or avoid all issues.
Of course, I have been thinking about connecting a few wires to an outlet and giving her a jolt. You think 15 seconds, 20 seconds or longer? Is there any research on this? Does someone want to try with me and compare notes? What air freshener works best to cover the smell of burning human flesh?
Have a good evening.
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Ready,
You crack me up!
I think you are right about low energy MLCers.
My H doesn't seem to be able to take any action. I guess walking out the door 6 months ago - pretty much wore him out.
I think a good zap from the electrical outlet COULD actually help.
Well, maybe not!
L
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Ready
Were u thinking electro shock therapy or an old fashioned shock collar?
Butterfly
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Still & Ready, yes I do realize that MCLers may have a master plan of pushing us beyond our limits so we file and give them the chance to heap more blame on us. IMO that's about as low as a person can go, but I have no doubt they do sink to that level.
On the other hand, if divorce is the eventual outcome...why prolong this any longer? Does anyone have a crystal ball I could borrow?
Sign me up (or my H rather) for those shock treatments too!!
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I don't think filing for a divorce will have an impact...it may actually push him further away. If there is no reason, then think carefully before you go that route.
But, make sure you are keeping an eye on your finances and it doesn't hurt to make an appointment with a lawyer...bring a copy of all your investments so that they have it on file.
Having said that,. I did file for a separation...still don't want it but I don't see a choice in our particular situation. I like what your pastor said about waiting...God Himself suffered pain greater than we can ever imagine...so He know's what we are suffering and knows every tear that we cry. He is also the only way that your H can turn his life around. Good luck..keep posting
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Faith
My MLCer divorced me, but I am far from calling it the outcome.
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Yes, but your MLCer forced it. We are talking about the LBSer pushing the low energy MLCer into divorce. That will be the end in my opinion because the Low level MLCer is not going to feel any need to go back and will feel that the LBSer wouldn't take them back anyway.
Just my two cents...
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Ready
Yep, that's what I was saying. Faith said she just wanted something to happen.....but knew not to do anything. I just see people posting here once in a while referring to divorce as "the end"......and my experience is showing me that's not necessarily true.
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Do any of you ever wonder if your low energy MLCer is quietly getting his/her ducks in a row before hitting you with a divorce? Maybe hiding money or assets? Like the typical MLCer, my H really just seems confused and spinning around with no direction, but occasionally I wonder if I'm underestimating him.
I consulted with several lawyers because seemed particularly determined during his 4th cycle of "I'm divorcing you next week". All of them told me that there is no way to stop him from hiding money etc. without a divorce in motion, but that most financial shenanigans are discovered eventually. I just keep praying for God's protection in this area.
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Faith,
Do any of you ever wonder if your low energy MLCer is quietly getting his/her ducks in a row before hitting you with a divorce? Maybe hiding money or assets? Like the typical MLCer, my H really just seems confused and spinning around with no direction, but occasionally I wonder if I'm underestimating him.
What does your intuition tell you? Or do you know how to listen for it? It's the still, small voice inside you that doesn't shout; and you have to be quiet to hear it.
When divorce or leaving is threatened; it's a demand for space..is there some area where you are getting too close for comfort?
Every time I said anything to my husband that was truth, he threatened to leave; and I learned to say nothing to him; until the time came when he threatened me for the last time, and I told him IF that was what he wanted to do; he knew where the door was.
You can't stop your husband from getting a divorce IF he truly wants one; but you can leave that choice on his shoulders while you take steps to protect yourself financially.
It's something to think about...I feel that pressure is coming from somewhere that you don't realize; and you may be saying something to him that he interprets as pressure; hence the threat.
Not trying to criticize you or tell you what to do; but I did find that the pressure was coming from me; and I had to stop talking to him; unless he talked to me, first.
Food for thought.
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You don’t have to verbalize you are Standing for a person to feel like you are hitting them over the head. Your MLCer has exhibited such feelings when he has told you he wants you to move on and he wishes you would let go.
He needs to feel you releasing. How? Making him jealous and afraid he will lose you won’t work. But he needs to feel you loosening up around him—no eggshells. Relax. He doesn’t want you to determine your actions based on what you think he will think or do. This goes back to what I said 6 months ago; just Be.
No one can tell you whether he will change his mind and want to reconcile someday. But I don’t think it going to happen while you are trying instead of living.
The above are some quotes from RCR's coaching post to me; even after all this time this is relevant.
It's a paradox; we keep thinking we aren't clinging; our MLCers still perceive us as applying pressure.
This all follows on from what HB says about pressure coming from us that we don't realise. RCR pointed out to me that even if we really aren't doing anything in that regard, they STILL can choose to feel pressured. Sometimes I think our very existence provides that pressure.
It's up to us to keep on peeling that detachment onion.
I wrote a letter, or possibly a script, nominally to my H -- I may or may not use it or parts of it at some point....
In it I found myself typing an interesting sentence -- I was talking about forgiveness, how we can ask for forgiveness but it's up to the other to give it or not. I said that I had to accept that he is choosing not to let me make restitution for the parts that I got wrong. That is really the crux of it, I think.
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Faith,
Another thing that I wanted to mention, though the MLC'er often seems to be in a very confused fog at times, they can be extremely honed in to anything manipulative. I have watched this with my own H. Early in his crisis before I found any MLC resources, I tried to influence him to see things differently. He saw right through it and it did not work in my favor.
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I have to agree with Still. For all that fog, there can also be a highly-tuned person under there.
For me, I would not make any announcements/threats/ultimatums or decisions unless I was 100% sure that is what I wanted.
I say this with the full ackowledgement that not knowing where you are or where you're going as they go through their MLC's is BRUTAL.
In fact, I'm in one of those weary/impatient/sick-of-it moods today....very much so. It will pass though.
Bonnie
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I have often been told that my w is planning her exit strategy and is just using her time to prepare for her departure. My response is that if I do love her, would I just throw her out and force her into situation where she would have to fend for herself? Make her vulnerable where she has to find an OM to survive?
My response is that I love her, that I care about her, and if she moves out next year, then I had her for an entire year. It is something to think about and consider. Too often, we look at our spouses as rational and calculating. From my perspective, even when making what seems to be rational thoughts, they are still tempered by emotional impulses and thoughts driven by their depression.
Yes, my wife has told many people that she is planning on moving out. She wants to pass her CPA, get a job, and then get her own place. That was her plan over a year ago and she still has to pass the CPA. Right now, even if she passed one test per testing cycle, she will not pass the test until next November. That gives me almost another year with her in the house.
On one level, it sounds calculating, but on the other level, it sounds like a person who is clinging to a fantasy. The fantasy is slowly eroding and she will eventually face herself. Think carefully before you push your MLCer. Pray to God and really think before you do something drastic. Remember that when the LBSer makes a push or shove they often do not get the desired results that they are seeking.
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Remember that when the LBSer makes a push or shove they often do not get the desired results that they are seeking.
There are certain times for pushing; and other times for leaving them alone.....push too soon, they will run away...this is how fragile they are at certain points of the crisis; especially within the first three stages.
It is best to leave them alone for awhile...you will KNOW when the time is right to try to push them; although you may shoot them with truth darts from time to time..this is another time you will KNOW when to push them.
Basically; they will have had to completely come through the first THREE stages; if not also the fourth..this is when they are stronger; more able to take being pushed somewhat...because the damage done will be partially revealed in the fourth...although, when they "awaken" during the latter part of Replay and they determine they must do something or lose all...they are still not "open" to being pushed at that point in time.
You still won't know until they vocalize it whether they will want to stay married or not..and this is beyond your control. If you pay attention, their very actions will show you a great deal; as not every MLC'er really wants to leave, but they need to be left alone to process themselves; coming through on their own.
This is the hardest part of the drill to try and outlast their crisis.
My intuition guided me; but confrontation didn't come until he had bounced backward into Withdrawal; and was stuck within the tunnel.
Now, you do need to set boundaries against bad behavior and can do so at any time within the crisis; no one should EVER be allowed to curse you or call you names, or insult you; this is very disrespectful....and when you set the boundary don't take their threats to heart; simply let them go to do what they THINK they need to do; and don't let fear get in your way.
You can't control what they do; but you can control yourself; and what you will and won't tolerate in the way of behavior.
Not everything they say requires an answer; and most of the time they are fishing for a reaction..don't take the bait and don't take any of it personally; the MLC fog is speaking from their confused minds.
There are consequences set for boundaries; and set these in such a way that won't make a major life change.
For example, I made it quite clear that I would not stay in the same room with him; if he started speaking disrespectfully to me...and I left the room each time he started up. Sometimes, he'd follow me, sometimes not...there was one day; when we ended up in every room of the house; except our son's room...and I simply started over; making it clear once again that I would NOT tolerate being spoken to in disrespectful way.
He pushed ME and hard; trying everything he knew to get me to throw him out...I knew the game he was playing.
But, I didn't throw him out...and that would have been a major life change if I had; he would have not returned....pride was a problem with him; and throwing him out would have been a major blow there....but he pushed me and tried to get me to throw him out, because he was TOO weak to do it, himself....but I never would....I just kept leaving the room.
I stayed calm, when I wanted to scream my head off, instead...but he never saw me sweat; and he stopped seeing me cry for a very long time.
It was hard; but strength came from a well that I never knew existed; and I worked with that strength for a good while.
It really sounds like I was a 'glutton for punishment' but I don't see it that way; I learned things WITHIN my marriage; that I would never have learned; had I given in and throw him out.
I learned to DEAL more effectively with hateful, disrespectful people, and he was the epitome of every one of these types of people; that I used to get so upset with before I learned to deal within the crisis.
I learned to be strong; and I learned to hang on tightly to myself...it is all too easy to lose yourself even more within this process....but I also learned, as time went on, that I had great value; and I would retain that value; and gain even more as the crisis went on.
And I also knew he would come to KNOW this value as the crisis wound down....as he remembered what he'd done toward me; and the fact that I had stayed strong with him; when I could have just as easily tossed him out the door.
I really did want to stay married; even though I was pushed to my limits; and even, at the beginning; decided at one point that I was leaving...but God kept after me; and I'm very glad He did.
There were many things that had to come to pass before it all ended; but I learned so much from each thing that came across my path. :)
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Oh how I wish I had learned about MLC 18 months ago!! I did everything wrong for a long time. My H kept telling me to leave him alone (needing space), but I couldn't. I would leave him be for a week, thinking that was plenty of time, then come back and try to make him talk, to make him understand the damage he was doing, to try to make sense of of the craziness he was spewing and make HIM see that it was crazy. I just had NO IDEA what was happening and couldn't stop trying to fix it.
THANK YOU to those of you who have encouraged me to not make threats or take action before I'm 100% sure. It's hard to fight those feelings of "if he wants out so badly, why are we wasting any more time". I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want me (none of us do)...but there is a possiblity he could emerge from the fog a better person like HB's H did. It ain't over till it's over right?
Ready, Still, HB, and many more of you are amazing examples of unconditional love and patience. I hope some of it rubs off on me. :)
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backing it up a bit:
Of course, I have been thinking about connecting a few wires to an outlet and giving her a jolt. You think 15 seconds, 20 seconds or longer? Is there any research on this? Does someone want to try with me and compare notes? What air freshener works best to cover the smell of burning human flesh?
ROFL! 20 secs at least...add a spritz of water....Febreeze pet strength or vinegar.... 8)
Do any of you ever wonder if your low energy MLCer is quietly getting his/her ducks in a row before hitting you with a divorce? Maybe hiding money or assets? Like the typical MLCer, my H really just seems confused and spinning around with no direction, but occasionally I wonder if I'm underestimating him.
Yes! It is a fear I can't seem to totally let go of, because aspects of it keep popping up. I am reassured that he cannot hide much as he will have to document everything if we go to court. That said...all the money in the world cannot replace my husband. I would gladly hand everything over to whomever would guarantee his return to wholeness. Faith, it is all about letting go of the outcome, which takes time, understanding, and little baby steps :)
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Hi, Faith. Just wanted to toss in my two cents worth! My xH had planned his escape I believe for a few months. He had everything in place before leaving........rented his apartment, opened a separate checking/savings account, etc. He was set and ready........things happened so fast my head was spinning for weeks! He insisted that I go ahead and take my "half"....saying that he didn't feel like I contributed half but it was "only fair" for him to give me half! So, within 3 weeks I find out he took $11,000 out of his retirement account to purchase OW a brand new car!! He also traded a perfectly good vehicle (06) for a 2010 vehicle for himself..........AND bought a used sports car.........AND a motorcycle.........he also maxed out his personal credit card to the tune of $12,000!!! He went bonkers spending money and OW was living it up!! He paid dearly for removing the money from retirement.......early withdrawal.......penalties with Internal Revenue! It bit his butt hard!
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Faith,
I think there certainly could be cases where the MLC'er is "working behind the scenes" to get things prepared for the exit. I also think there are many cases where that isn't happening simply because the energy to do so is too much. Prior to MLC, my h was never one to sit around for anything. He was a list maker and constantly checked off goals as he would complete them. He coordinated all aspects of building our home, single-handedly built a 2.5 car garage, and did much of his own landscaping. He loved our home. Since MLC, nothing gets done. He hasn't completed a household project in nearly 3 years. This just isn't him. So, I honestly don't believe he has the energy to devote to planning his exit. Maybe some day I will be wrong.
I have seen a lawyer to know my rights, but I don't dwell on what he is doing. If he leaves, there isn't anything I can do about it. In the meantime, my children have the benefit of living with both parents.
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Still,
Your comments are pretty interesting to me.
It made me think of my H and the time after BD - the 2.5 months before he moved out (I should say ran away from home).
One day he was working on our sink in the upstairs bathroom. He purchased a new sink, new faucets - etc. I guess the sink size in my bathroom didn't match what he had purchased.
He got so upset - he laid on the couch in the den and cried. He was so frustrated!. He ended up taking everything back to the store and putting the old, cracked sink (which is not usable) back in its place. (There are 2 sinks in the bathroom). And, now, there it sits. An unusable, cracked sink - held up by a 2 by 4!
My H, in the past, could always figure out anything...pretty much fix anything. In his MLC state - he's not the handy man he once was.
No. I don't think that me H did much calculating. I think he must have thought quite a bit about leaving me and our home. But, it appears, that he didn't think very much about what his future would be once he left. He took some clothes, his camera (later his coffee maker and roaster) - and that's about it. He still sleeps in the guest room at his parents.
I think that my H pretty much lives in the moment - for the moment. He doesn't seem to have the ability to plan/schedule for the future.
Just my perspective.
L
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Wow Lovemyman, I'm glad you got your "half" before he went on his insane spending spree! :o
Still and limitless, my H has become pretty lazy and uncaring around the house too. He was also a handyman who could figure out how to fix almost anything. He started finishing our basement 3 years ago, but it has sat in it's current state since MLC hit. Oddly, he recently asked me if I had thought about what color to paint the bathroom down there. Why would I put anymore money or work into the basement if we're selling the house when we divorce? Of course if I vocalize that, he'll say "well, it will help the house sell faster". Been there done that - don't want to hear it anymore.
I agree that for all his threats and big talk, my gut tells me that he doesn't have the energy to be doing anything too sinister yet. Like Ready, I have a family member that keeps telling me she's sure he's up to all kinds of horrible things. But really, what can we do if they are? How can we even find out? I spent several months snooping around trying to figure out what women he's talking to and how involved he is with them, and I drove myself insane. I would like to know the truth, but my emotional and physical health is important too. The fact that he has me blocked from accessing our cell phone records tells me he's hiding something so I know that much. The whole truth will surface eventually. :(
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Faith,
I did quite a bit of snooping cell phone records for the 1st 2-3 months after he left.
Day after day there was virtually nothing. Only texts here and there to our kids and me.
Finally, there was a 3 hour phone call to ...... his high school girlfriend - (Over 40 years ago)!!!
I lost it.
I called him and yelled at him. I wanted him to know that I checked his cell records so he would block me.
It was like an obsession - I couldn't stop checking them.
That was over 3 months ago.
Now, I have no idea what he does or who he communicates with.
It's better that way.
It's probably nobody - or there could be somebody.
Either way - nothing I can do about it. Better not to know. Not my business.
No. I don't think he's calculating or planning anything. He seems to just exist right now.
I wouldn't want to live like that.
Hugs,
L
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Faith,
I bet lots of us look back with regret over hounding them (for lack of a better word). I melted down constantly in the beginning...then I got a handle on the weekdays but melted down each weekend. Now I seem to be on a three week rotation....though I don't melt down so much as throw out a question here and there. Part of that backing off is because I've had some of my questions answered and some apologies and accountability (lots more is needed of course). And the other part of the backing off is because I've gotten smarter. And alas, sorry to say, part of it is giving up and giving in to this "thing" that's going on. So don't beat yourself up with regret...who can blame us for trying to figure out why the or one of the most important relationships in our life has fallen apart?
I agree with limitless....sometimes it's better not to know. It is what it is, there isn't anything you can do about it except to set parameters but that could blow up in your face. Sometimes it's better to realize all the lies and secrecy are just part of this rotten MLC package and hope they run their course.
Bonnie
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My rule of thumb is:
If the answer to any question has the potential to hurt in any way, DO NOT ASK IT.
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That is my rule of thumb, too, Still and has been since the beginning. Since it is MLC, you are most likely going to get an answer you don't want to hear.
FWIW, my H is not what I would consider a low energy MLCer but he hasn't done anything around the house for a long, long time. The last time he did any projects was probably three and a half years ago at least and he used to be always fixing things up, constantly making improvements on the house, and was so proud of the way it was looking. Now things are literally falling apart around me and I can't fix them all by myself. I have done what I can and will continue as such.
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T,
I certainly would have thought your H was Low-Energy. Out of curiosity, why would you think he isn't?
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During replay he was acting out and was really almost manic both in behavior and actions. I do believe he has had an EA. He does his share of running now, but it is in the form of working waaaaay too much. I don't know.
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I wonder how long a low energy MLC'er can go on in roommate mode. I have seen several here who are in the 2-3 year timeframe.
I've also seen a few here who have noticed their H's persuing them, at least a tiny bit, after they let them go and started getting on with their own lives. This definitely hasn't been the case with me. My H seems perfectly happy to have no contact all day and a brief "how was your day" "fine" "good night" whenever he decides to come home in the evening.
I'm really feeling like I want this to end. I want a shot at a real relationship with someone who actually likes me (maybe even loves me - imagine that!). I love coming here and feel encouraged after reading how strong and positive you all are, then H comes home with his black cloud and I feel like I can't stand it one more day. It's tempting to hire a P.I., just to know the truth about what I'm dealing with so I can make an informed decision. Ugh...just one of those nights I guess. Tomorrow will be better.
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Hi Faith,
I guess that's why they tell us to stop focusing on our spouses and focus on ourselves.
There is no answer to your question.
In the early days - I would go to work and ask my co-worker "how long." She would tell me that he'd be back by Christmas and I would cry - I can't wait until Christmas. (Note - she didn't say WHICH Christmas).
That's why we need to take the focus off our MLCer and put it on ourselves. My H's journey will take as long as it's going to take. I have no impact on shortening it (I think that I could only make it longer). It's possible that he will be stuck in MLC forever. I have NO control or impact.
Let it go. Let it be.
Take care of yourself. Do something that you have always wanted to do. Enjoy this time (I know - I also thought that I would not ever be able to smile or laugh again. I didn't think that food would ever taste good again. I thought my life was over).
Trust me, it will get better. It wasn't until I realized that I was only going to be as miserable as I allowed myself to be - that I found that the key was within me to make my life happier - make my life better.
You will be okay. Every day it will get easier.
L
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Faith,
The only thing I can say is that you are stronger than you ever imagined....we all are. If you decide that you are going to stand, you will find a way to do so. As limitless said, you HAVE to take the focus off of him and what he is doing. I truly believe the MLC'er is incapable of truly thinking of anyone, but themselves. I am willing to bet he rarely, if ever, gives your feelings much thought.
Sure, it would likely be easier to start fresh with someone new, but we have invested so much time into a relationship we vowed to last until death. I, personally, can't just give up until I know that I have done everything I was called to do with every fiber of my being. I don't feel that I am there yet.
Like so many here, my H was a good, kind, compassionate individual. He cared about others and was passionate about life. The person who comes home now is not that person I have known since he was 16. I know that as much as he has expressed that he doesn't want me, there is something inside of him that still clings to me. He has NEVER verbalized this, but I know this through God's voice or intuition, I just do.
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Thank you limitless & Faith. I need to stop being so whiney. God must still have lessons for me to learn. :)
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God must still have lessons for me to learn.
There are always more lessons to be learned....it is lifelong. (http://planetsmilies.net/grinning-smiley-9508.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)
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Faith:
I just finished reading your posting regarding how you feel like just giving up. I think we have all been there and done that. My H and I are divorced (4 months) now and I've struggled so much with this same idea. Why should I keep waiting? I know in my heart that I truly love my xH and I feel like he is worth the wait. I'm so much better now than I was 6 months ago...........it does get better. I pray constantly.........well, as much as I can. I sometimes get a little "jealous" when I read here that some H's are starting to come around some but then again everybody is different. Each MLC'er has a different journey they must take. It could be that you truly need to start focusing on yourself. I know it's not easy.........but you can do it. I don't know which is worse...........being totally separated from H or having them live with us and having to watch/deal with their issues. Either way it's still very hard. You will make it though.........just keep trying to focus on yourself. Let him go.
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Faith,
I concur with what everyone just said. And you are NOT whining! You are frustrated....how can any of us go through this and not feel that way?
My low energy MLC'er is still in the throes and it's been since October, 2008. But things are better. For now. This has only been a recent upswing and there are backslides. So, I know in my heart it isn't anywhere near over, could get worse, could just "be" in a limbo for much longer.
When I have my days of frustration, I think about the fact that this has been nearly three years of crap...but, we were happy for 12 years prior to this. It's a silly game I play with myself but I imagine a pretend glass.....so far, since we hit our 15th anniversary this year, 1/5th of the glass is mud...sludge....much. The other 4/5ths are clear, cool water. I can't let that sludge outweigh the clean water. Not yet anyway. Don't beat yourself up for feeling frustrated or impatient...you would not be human if you didn't feel that way at times....and often for that matter!
Oh and BTW, I still haven't learned the lesson of don't ask if you might not like the answer but I'm getting ALOT better at it. If someone were to ask how to get through this, I would advise them to adopt that policy early on, as much as they can.
These MLC'ers don't know what they want and don't have honest answers...the sooner we realize that, the better we're off.
Bonnie
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There are two important concepts in RCR's newsletter article on Acceptance (from last summer). It says Acceptance of the MLC process is a requirement. And, in reference to getting through the process quickly, it says if speed is your goal, it will fail.
As Old Pilot used to say, pop some popcorn and watch the MLC movie.....detach yourself from their behavior or it will drive you batty. Be responsive if you like, but don't pursue.
This can be done.
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It is acceptance and faith that the spouse is in LBS that makes a difference. DGU is right, you need to accept MLC as a condition and as a process. It does take time and patience. Fortunately, you can make mistakes and with time, you can continue to stand. For example, I was pushing the r talks frequently (weekly) then monthly, and now I am going on eight weeks without an r talk or confrontation with her.
It is not that I ignore her, it is I do for her and then move on. I don't push her to affirm or even acknowledge me. I just say "hello, good morning, good night, good bye", and the occasional "Love you." However she responds is no longer necessary or if she responds at all.
I used to have my own doubts, but now I see it as a true condition and my w's situation is not my fault nor is she happy and content with what she is doing. From my observation, she is still in replay. Of course, I don't pay much attention to her and her actions or where she is in the tunnel. Instead, I focus on my actions and situation. I pray hard for her and for me.
Keep your faith and come to the boards to renew your energy and your stand. It is okay to get tired and whine. That is what we are here for and everyone at this site has had many moments like yours. (((Hugs)))
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Just reading through this and it is beginning to dawn on me that my h. is most probably a Low Energy type too, I can really relate to what most say on here. Especially about his trying to make me 'move' so that he can blame me for breaking it up. During the week, I am acting much like Ready:
I just say "hello, good morning, good night, good bye", and the occasional "Love you." However she responds is no longer necessary or if she responds at all.
On weekends, it is different because I still get upset at being totally ignored and left out of the picture, but I am trying hard to make my own plans and carry them through ???
He still shows some signs of manic euphoria, but much less than just after BD, as if he knows I can see through his fake happy behavior. I think he keeps it for public appearances.
He quickly gave up his younger drinking buddies (and I think they gave up on him too), but will stop to have a drink after work if he can snare someone into it. When he comes home he acts as he used to - tired and ready to go to bed, he just doesn't ask me if I want to have dinner with him any more and I have learnt to get my own meal if I want one.
He definitely does not seem happy when he is at home, but just 'exists'. OTOH, no sign of any planning, even for his upcoming 'sailing' trip (he needs to get a new passport and a US visa!).
He also cancelled/postponed his therapy appointment for today, he told me he had no money to pay for it, I suspect it is more avoidance than anything else - only five or six weeks ago, he was saying how he needed to have therapy more frequently and that he was upset that the next appointment was ONLY on Feb 24th.
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Mitzpah,
You touched on something interesting.
Most of our blowouts occur on weekends...actually, they have since BD. I noticed that awhile back.
I think the work week is too busy to fully grasp this nightmare...the weekend brings it all home.
Interesting.
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I think the weekends tend to draw out because you deal with the insanity all day and into the night. In my situation, she stays in the study all day long and does nothing. I am taking the kids to the studio for dance, typing my papers and getting the shopping done in all one fell swoop.
I used to get frustrated, but I have learned to ask her to do a few things. If she does them, fine. I thank her and move on. If not, I was going to do it anyway.
The more you focus on what you control and less on what they say or do, then you can detach. I have noticed less spewing and less issues from me or her. OP said it so simply, "think of her as dead." It is a sad mindset, but if she were gone, I would be doing the same stuff and I would still have to take care of the girls. So, I keep myself occupied, make sure I take care of what I need to do.
If you want to make the weekends go, plan at least one activity for yourself and the family. I always invite me wife. If she comes, great. If not, we still have a good time. ((((Hugs)))
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I've come rather late to this thread but it all rings true for my W; with the help of readytofixmyselffirst, I've realised that she is a low energy MLCer.
A lot of the time it's like living with a ghost - someone there but not really there. The Monster is below the surface ready to spew at any trigger, but I'm learning not to push those trigger points and get some barbed comments. She seems deeply depressed and stares a lot, removes herself and broods. It's like she wants to be somewhere else all the time - I don't know if this is with the OM or what. She's said a few times that she just feels like running away, somewhere she can be herself, but she doesn't have the balls to do it, but instead tried to force/cajole me to leave. ::)
I too have felt like giving up - many times! Is it time, as Faith said, to look for someone new who would like and maybe love me for who I am? But at the moment I believe in our marriage and want it to work out - I've told her this and told her I'll be there for her.
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So, are there advantages to having a low-energy MLC or is it six of one, half a dozen of the other? I'm still unclear on the criteria of what constitutes a low-energy. Thanks
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The low energy MLC'er has a much shorter replay time but is paid back with a much longer depression and withdrawal stage.
Very interesting as I had not heard that low-energy MLCers had a much shorter Replay time before.
This is a different topic, but since I’m working on a technical article about Low-Energy MLCers, I want to respond so that I can then have this for my notes.
I am not so certaint hat low-energy MLCers have a shorter Replay. I think it is milder. But as I think about that I think what I mean is I don’t think they get to Liminality faster—and that is they key right there to shorter or average Raply time.
Just after starting the forum I started a thread where I talked about renaming Replay to call it Escape & Avoid. This makes me think I should still do that—and yet that does confuse things that already confuse so many!
Replay is merely a phase within the Stage of Separation. Liminality is the stage following Separation.
Replay is the do-over time and is really a characterisitic of high-energy MLCers. Low-energy MLCers do often—always ?—go through the do-over time, but I agree that it is shorter. What is not shorter is the over all Escape & Avoid. So Replay is just one type of Escape & Avoid.
Oh, that does help me with thinking it through.
Moving this over from Thundarr's thread, this is a thread for Low energy MLC'ers
for anyone that signs up for that group.
I would think that STILL and I would moderate this group.
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I feel like I can offer some insight to fellow spouses of low energy MLC'ers. I lived with mine for 3 years from the start of his MLC. He moved out 5 months ago, but continues to have a low energy MLC.
He is a very high energy person in most aspects of his life. In other words, he is a workaholic and an athlete.
However, his progression through his MLC has been very, very slow with a relatively short-lived Replay (18 months) and a very long depression/withdrawal stage....which he continues in.
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I see similarities in my H. He still lives at home. In other aspects of his life he is also high energy with the workaholism, very driven, etc. and was like that pre-MLC so it is interesting to me that he is a low energy MLCer. But he most definitely is. He is moving very slowly through it, smoldering rather than firey (except for very initially). I did see replay actions but also short, probably only about a year for the worst of it.
He has been MLCing for probably three years noticeably now. He seems to cycle between more withdrawal and depression and right now is deeply in both.
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I have been reading the posts here. I think that my H is also a low-energy type. He moved out at BD but moved in with his dad. He moved to his own place a week or so ago - a little more than a year after BD.
I also think he would be a vanisher if we did not have children because he has never wanted to talk about our relationship. He stated at BD that he was done, that he had been unhappy for years, that he loved me but was not in love with me, that we should never have gotten married, that if we had dated longer we would never have married. It took me a good month not to get hysterical and cry and plead after BD. We have never had a conversation about our relationship that he initiated, and when we talked a few days ago he said that there were probably things that we needed to speak the truth about but that some things did not need to be discussed because there was nothing more to be said. ???
He has admitted to an EA, a couple of months after BD, but no "manic" replay behaviors. He did reiterate that he still had feelings for OW a few days ago - so far that seems to be the extent of his type of replay behaviors. His EA is with a married friend of mine. She is still in her marriage, but H has told her how he feels. I do not know if they are still in contact.
He did disconnect from the childrent but has started to try to reconnect. He has continued to deposit money in our account, he still keeps me on his insurance, and has stated clearly that he does not want a divorce right now that we need to wait until we are both in a better position ?? to make that type of decision. There are very few people who know that we are separated. H has not told anyone, other than a couple of close friends, at his work.
So, being aware that this may change tomorrow, I think that he is pretty low energy compared to others on the board.
I also don't see really much movement forward from him. I wonder if living with his 89 year old father in some way slowed him down even more?
STC
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Hi, I just posted my intro on the board, although I have been reading here for awhile now. I believe my boyfriend is also a low energy MLCer.
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Stayingthecourse,
Wow, so much of what you said could have come directly from my Husband. The words they use are often consistent from situation to situation. A low-energy MLC'er just seems to do things at a much slower pace. My h stated he was leaving over two years before he actually did. Though he seems content with his situation of being on his own, he still has many connections to me that could have been separated (accounts, etc.). He never speaks of the relationship and I don't believe there is anyone else in the picture (though we can never really know).
All you can really do is take care of yourself. Keep moving forward in your journey and perhaps, one day, your paths will cross again.
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Hi OP - where can I get more info on these "low energy MLCer" types? I've tried a couple of the links in this thread and another, but they don't work (at least not for me). I think my H is a low energy because he's not into all the crazy antics and does seem pretty depressed (i.e., the first time I've seen him dressed nice, hair combed, shaved, etc. was 1 week ago - gone for 4 months now). First time he joked with me was yesterday - haven't heard him really laugh since he left either. I could go on and on, but I'd be curious for more info.
Thank you! :o)
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I too believe my xW is a low energy MLCer. She had an EA, early on prior to BD, but then after that I've seen monster, but not consistent. I see that she has anger brewing underneath the surface but for the most part she is just quiet and avoids me.
When I was living in the house, all she does was lock herself in the room. She refused to leave, and was trying to force me to leave, which I did do... She didn't do anything. Only thing she did actively was call a lawyer, filed for divore, and went through with it. That's mainly because the lawyers were pushing for her.
After D, she still avoids me and won't talk to me... when i pick up and drop off the kids, she stands behind the door, and sees me as little as possible... let alone talk. She won't even respond to texts unless absolutely crucial.
This is 16 post BD. I don't think her stance has changed for a year.... no cycling. If we didn't have kids, I also think she would be a vanisher.
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Updated first post on this thread with links to the blog article and the name change to wallower
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=1023
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Wallower with ow...txt affair
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OldPilot,
Tanks for posting that article.
I read that article about a year ago and FINALLY something explained my X.
He was so different from others I read about. No monster, no ow, no spending crazy...always nice to me.
I believe if I hadn't moved out he wouldn't have either, but we were divorced and I needed to move on with my life.
To me a Low-Energy MLCer lives more in a fantasy life in their head.
He is in depression now and has been for a long time. He pretty much just works, sleeps and is exhausted all the time.
I DO think it takes them longer to go through the tunnel because they move so slow. Not burning their way through it like High-Energy MLCers.
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Bumping this thread up - I am having trouble reading replies 70-79, there may be some malware on that page so others please be careful.
I want to try it on another computer to see the problem more clearly
Edit - I was able to read this on my phone with no problem but cant seem to read this one page on my computer.
Weird!!
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I'm pretty sure that I have a low energy mlc'er.
Would he be a low energy mlc'er if he is,
Wandering aimlessly without a plan?
Secretive?
In hiding?
Not spending money?
No OW?
Fantasizing?
No place of his own and living with friends and family?
Overly polite? Talking to me as if I were a family friend?
No conflict?
Feeling sorry for himself?
Confused?
At a loss for words?
It's hard to take, but I am thankful to not be put through the nightmare of a high energy mlc'er.
I'm just not sure if he will ever come out of this.
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It sure sounds like it, MIMix.
Mine was pretty much the same. Big on the fantasy life.
The good thing is he may not find an ow, the bad thing is it may take him longer to get though his crisis than a High-Energy type because they don't live out their fantasies and hit reality sooner.
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I would agree Thunder. On the other hand, I am pretty high energy, so it is painful for me to face this very slow process. It feels like sticking needles in your eyes! Lol
I feel that my h has moved into a new stage. He has stopped spending lots of money, stopped the travelling and has gone very, very quiet. Feels a bit eerie...like a storm may be coming. I hope not!
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I am in the same situation. :-\
And oh, after 10 months of living with my MLCer I know that feeling at the end of a cycle - what's next?
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Yes, I don't know what to expect next. I'm just trying to stay away from it. It feels a bit scary! I hope he is not making final plans behind my back!
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MiMix, if you financially secure, independent, you have nothing to fear. :-*
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Bumping this up, I know the low-energy threads don't get updated as much but I'm kind of curious to here more different situations with them. I know a lot of them wallow after their affair is a fantasy.
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Mine is currently low energy. That may change. He was a low energy person all through high school, then went sort of high energy in college, but that is only because of the people he hung out with (I was one of them), was fairly high energy in the beginning of our relationship/marriage (But I'm a go and do it kind of person) and then about five years ago, dropped back to low energy again.
I'm thinking my H is trying to get back to college, but everyone he knew moved on with their lives. Very few sit around playing video games for hours on end and none seem to blame everyone else for problems of their own making. ???
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I think mine is headed there. He set off with a big bang, but that seems to have fizzled out.
He doesn't seem to have anything to do when he's not at work.
Also hasn't changed his mailing address and stays at his dad's when he's not working.
Still a miserable jerk.
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Low energy can also morph into a vanisher,
once we were divorced, she was GONE.
She moved 1200 miles away and I only hear about it through my children.
And Ms OP if you are still stalking me here, have a good life! ;D ;D ;D
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So weird to see current posts to a thread I started in 2010.
My MLC'er seemed to have gotten completely stuck. He has been in crisis for many years. What he thought would make him happy......affair, new car, new house, new job, new life.....none of that made him happy.
He is still miserable and very focused on my life...trying to cause problems for me.
I stepped out of the way, moved on with my life, found out who I was, and quite honestly, I am better than ever. His crisis caused great heartbreak in our lives, but out of the ashes rose good things.
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Oh my dear Still, I can tell from your wonderful sense of humor when I read your posts on FB how very good you are...will we ever be completely 100% at peace...I don't think I can be because I still hurt about the destruction of our precious family and nothing can give me that back...but like you, I too am learning that there re much worse things in life than having my marriage destroyed.
For I know who I am, I know that I live my life with integrity...this is what matters to me, not his lies, not his cheating, not his superficial attempts at being a "nice" guy, showing the world how "big" he is...no, none of that for me.
Take care!!!! One day we shall have to get together again...just don't tell the border people that you are meeting up with someone you met on the internet . In this day and age, that might not go over so well ;D
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Still! So good to see you posting. Sorry to hear your MLCer is still MLCing and causing you problems. While mine seems to be making progress, it is sloooooooooooooooow and he is still in crisis and still chasing all those things to make him "happy". Good luck to him. I have wondered if you were seeing any movement at all from yours.
I agree with XYZ about your FB posts. Love reading them - you make me laugh. ;D You and that dog of yours who is no doubt God-sent.
Low energy MLCers may take even longer than the norm to burn through the crisis, in my opinion.
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My MLC'er seemed to have gotten completely stuck. He has been in crisis for many years. What he thought would make him happy......affair, new car, new house, new job, new life.....none of that made him happy.
He is still miserable and very focused on my life...trying to cause problems for me.
I stepped out of the way, moved on with my life, found out who I was, and quite honestly, I am better than ever. His crisis caused great heartbreak in our lives, but out of the ashes rose good things.
Still,
Your experience seems to be my future road to walk. I've pretty much done everything I need to do to navigate this storm. Its encouraging for me to hear that you have survived and thrived.
I must say, my H's coming and going in my life is crazy making. I try to not think of this behaviour being a step toward coming home. I think he is simply trying to find his new normal...hang on to as much as he can while still feeling free from responsibility. Some days it feels good to have him around . He helps me with things around the house and this makes life a lot easier. But the drama, the back and forth, the uncertainty of him just one day vanishing, is hard to take. I never know what tomorrow will bring. So, I just keep reminding myself to not have any expectations. This helps a lot.
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I've found that Low Energy Micer's move at a snails pace and can be very aggravating. You just want SOME kind of movement....anything.
Mine is still chugging along since January 2012.
A few months ago he hit, honestly, what I thought was "rock bottom." The depression was black and disabling...but he bounced back to my amazement.
He seems less depressed now just in a buying mode. He shops all the time. Only sale items or uses coupons and specials but it all the time. I think he has 10 new pair of running shoes now. ALL on sale so how could he pass them up? ::)
I don't see much fantasy pretending anymore. It's like he has a need to buy things to make himself feel good. Problem is it only lasts for a little while and then he needs to buy something else. Oh and he even picks up little things on sale for me too. ??? He's SURE it's something I really need. Like my "new" umbrella. Now I have 3 of them. ;D
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Thanks for you responses, XYZ and Trusting. Thanks for the list of who is still here. Interestly, I interact with most of them on FB. Funny how many of us are still friends after all the chaos that forever changed our lives.
I think the low energy MLC'er may be the ones who seem to forever change. Some people go through a midlife crisis and they rip apart the people they vow to love the most and then somehow they come back to their previous values and want to build from there.
My ex-husband is a shell of the man he once was. I don't even care for him. He is childlike and obnoxious and arrogant and entitled. He still finds ways to try to upset me. We share children yet he has blocked me from emails, calls, and texts because I called him out on his affair. He didn't want to hear it and suddenly Still, who always kept silent, told him just how she felt. I have zero regrets on that.
I probably shouldn't even be posting on this forum that I was once so involved and moderating. I don't want my husband to return. I will not ever allow myself to be destroyed in the way that I was. I will never lie on the floor and wish to die to avoid my children's heartbreak of a broken home. I will never be ashamed of who I am because I allowed myself to be a doormat in my own belief that it would bring him home.
I am so happy for all of you who have your spouses return and you're able to move forward. I am no longer at the place where I could move forward with my ex.
I was divorced and lost both my parents in a six month time period. It was a moment of clarification for me. I was pining for someone who didn't want me, while losing two people who loved me unconditionally. That opened my eyes to be own worth. It was then that I knew there would be no going back.
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Still
This:
He is still miserable and very focused on my life...trying to cause problems for me.
Sums it up for me...
Not sure the MLCer is miserable, but as rainbowgal says
Happy people dont act that way
Have 3 d's though, somit is a built in way for the mlcer to maintain "contact"
His latest tactic-today- is to call me a bully and that i scare the d's
Project much?
I am tired of his crazy making crap
Have been for years
Glad you came back!
Onlyjo
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Still,
I hope you don't feel you shouldn't be on this forum. Hey, we need to see how others progress though this. You're a good example of someone who has come out the other side.
You're important, just as the newbies are.
I think we do gain clarity over the years. In the beginning you're just a mess.
You sound really good. I want to be you when I grow up. ;D
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Bravo Still for speaking up!!!!!!!
You are right, why do we pine for someone who doesn't care about us. AS someone once said, we need to wrap the love we have for them in a box and put it away on a shelf somewhere.
Each one of us will eventually know when there is a point of no return.
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Onlyjo,
Not sure the MLCer is miserable, but as rainbowgal says
Happy people dont act that way
I used to think he was happy, but my kids say he is always angry, yells constantly, and seems very unhappy to them. He has been with OW for years. He has aged two decades over the last few years and is very skinny. If that is what happiness looks like, no thank you.
I want to be you when I grow up.
Thunder,
LOL, XYZ and Trusting can confirm that I have not grown up! I am loving life right now. I have the best friends, travel, enjoy my kids to pieces, love my dog (s) (yep, two now ladies!), and have learned to absolutely love time with alone with me. I feel like a new person in a million different ways.
But the drama, the back and forth, the uncertainty of him just one day vanishing, is hard to take.
MIMIx,
I thought my life would end when he finally packed up and left. Truth is, that was the day my life began. No more eggshells, no more insults, no more treating me like a disease, no more vomiting and crying in the night. I was able to breathe and pull into my driveway with no fear. It was truly liberating.
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Oh my,
It is confirmed that I have a low energy wallower... big time.
I had no idea that I would see so many similarities to others situations.
Like Thunder, he is shopping ALL THE TIME and only purchasing bargains. He is looking at things to purchase over the web...all the time. They are pretty much small things...groceries on sale, clothing, tools and outdoor stuff. He buys me things. He sends me emails of things we need.
He takes his things from the house and then, when I think he is keeping them for good, he brings them back. They reappear in the house when I am not here.
One minute he is leaving, the next he is not. His actions do not match his words.
He says he wants to split our things and then drops the subject.
He has not found his own place to live. He keeps staying with relatives and friends until they ask him to leave. He gives them a timeframe...and then never leaves.
He pretty much finds fault in everyone.
He does not have an OW but has fantasized about someone. I don't know exactly who but can guess that they are perceived as great caregivers.
He is constantly moving, travelling to places on his own...doing nothing spectacular. He drives all over the place!
He is generally introverted but has this need to talk to anyone and everyone. He yaks it up with sales clerks like they are his longtime friends.
He keeps in constant touch with my family and shows up at their birthday parties etc.
He seems to be burning bridges everywhere.
OMG...I could go on and on. I had no idea that they all do similar stuff. And it seems that none of them ever return. They just continue to be present and make your life miserable.
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It's funny MIM, that is another huge change in his personality. He is very much an extreme introvert but now he chats to everyone. Sales clerks are big on the list. Chats like their his long lost friends. ::)
This is a man who used to say to me.."Did you know that person?" Me: "No, why?"
H: "Wow you just talk to anyone, don't you?"
Maybe he's mimicking me now. LOL
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Like Thunder, he is shopping ALL THE TIME and only purchasing bargains. He is looking at things to purchase over the web...all the time. They are pretty much small things...groceries on sale, clothing, tools and outdoor stuff.
He pretty much finds fault in everyone.
He is generally introverted but has this need to talk to anyone and everyone. He yaks it up with sales clerks like they are his longtime friends.
He is constantly moving, travelling to places on his own...doing nothing spectacular. He drives all over the place!
It's funny MIM, that is another huge change in his personality. He is very much an extreme introvert but now he chats to everyone. Sales clerks are big on the list. Chats like their his long lost friends. ::)
Check, check and check!
I thought that my MLCer was a wallower for a long time but he has an OW that he has been with on-and-off for the past 2 years. I think that having been with the OW for that long probably takes him out the wallowing category ??? I think that he fantasized about finding an OW until he actually found one - maybe he is a lucky wallower :o Even though he has OW, he does not view her as his soul mate and has stated that she is not long term ??? He truly wanted to be in a relationship with both of us! Now she is the only friend that he has ???
There are so many more things that he did an 180 on that it just boggles the mind.
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Searching,
Yes, your wallower did get lucky. ::)
I never doubt for a minute if ms. right came knocking on my X's door he'd accept the invitation, trouble is she would, literally, have to come to his door.
Wallowers DO find ow's, their just not as likely to.
Never say never. ;D
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Hello All,
My hubby is not spending a lot of money since he is living with his mom and has no OW that I know of. As of now, he is still allowing his checks to be direct deposited our joint account. Also, I remembered him saying that the first night he stayed at his mom's, "it was peaceful there". Wondering if anyone may have insight as to what he meant?
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It means he is back to his childhood, when he had no responsibilities. Peaceful, yeah 8)
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PS,
He may be saying that he feels relieved to have finally done it. Don't feel that this has ANYTHING to do with you!! It likely doesn't. He just feels relieved to have escaped the life stress that he has been feeling. He likely thinks this is the solution to his problems. HA!
For you...leave him to it. Carry on and keep your life on an even keel...for you. If it is anything like I have experienced, the situation will ebb and flow. I've learned that there is no magic solution to this. You have to take care of your own health because it is mind boggling at times. Don't stand in his way. It will just cause you grief.
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I beleive that replay may end sooner for these types however the other stages may last longer and be more volatile.
They still must face their issues and although they are not trying to run away for as long, trying to reconnect can be very difficult.
Thats my .02
OP,
Just a quick question.
Why do you think that reconnecting is very difficult or harder for low energy MLC?
L
Not sure I know the reason, although I will think about it, more the observation of cases I have seen.
Low energy MLC'ers tend to not have an OM/OW and I agree with what STILL wrote, lots of depression.
Mostly OVERT depression although during replay it might be covert depression.
I think because there is no OM/OW might be why replay ends faster, just a guess.
But that doesn't mean that all is OK.
If I think of something else I will come back and post it.
I quoted OP post because I agree with him because I'm living it right now.. Replay is not as crazy, and ends more quickly for a wallower. But the rest takes an eternity. I'm not sure if reconnection will ever happen for us. The longer it drags on, the more likely I am to move on by myself.
Our kids and our friends are now encouraging my H to get moving, find his own place and live his dream. They tell me that he needs to experience it. But does he do anything to move on? No. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
But one thing is for sure, he's dug in for the long term.
edit - combined posts - OP
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My low energy wallower did have an ow. He just hid it for a long time. He recently ended 4 year relationship with OW #3 and is still living at his parents house after 5 plus years.
I'd say he is still in replay, but really don't know as we have zero contact.
As in American Beauty, he seems to have attained a life of the least responsibility possible. Yep. Back to boyhood.
L
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Limitless,
What you just wrote> what a sad state these people create for their family! It's true isn't it...there seems to always be an OW. I'm so sorry that he was so deceitful to you. I hope you are doing well now.
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In my humble opinion I think Wallower's take longer. High Energy types live out their fantasy fast and furious, wallower's don't MOVE. :-\
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Mines certainly not moving. He is leaning on others to help him and is not really helping himself. It seems that he can't. He is trying to lean on the kids too...but they have their own busy lives. He is NOT reaching out to me. Although, I realize that he can't do this and still save his pride. And that's okay because I'm totally fed up.
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I beleive that replay may end sooner for these types however the other stages may last longer and be more volatile.
They still must face their issues and although they are not trying to run away for as long, trying to reconnect can be very difficult.
Thats my .02
OP,
Just a quick question.
Why do you think that reconnecting is very difficult or harder for low energy MLC?
L
Not sure I know the reason, although I will think about it, more the observation of cases I have seen.
Low energy MLC'ers tend to not have an OM/OW and I agree with what STILL wrote, lots of depression.
Mostly OVERT depression although during replay it might be covert depression.
I think because there is no OM/OW might be why replay ends faster, just a guess.
But that doesn't mean that all is OK.
If I think of something else I will come back and post it.
So 4 years later I will modify what I wrote above, since I can now see things a little more clearly in retrospect.
Although I will agree with my assessment that REPLAY ends quickly what I will say is that even though the more high energy antics of REPLAY seems to end very quickly the ESCAPE and AVOID portion do not end fast at all.
SO what appeared to me as the ending of REPLAY in fact was just a twist in the way that it was playing out.
If I look at the low-energy MLC'ers in this thread they are still in what seems to be an ESCAPE and AVOID mode.
Or at least they are not yet reconnecting with their LBS's.
TRUSTING's husband is reconnecting with his children, my ex is trying to do that with my children however no attempt has been made with the LBS's that I know of.
I can also see where a low energy mlc'er turns into a vanisher, mine did.
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OP, I think you're right, if I'm understanding correctly. The replay ends sooner with Low Energy MICer's but the escape and avoid takes longer.
I didn't see any movement from mine for almost 3 years. Then it was more depression after depression.
At the 4th year mark he started acting more like himself. All his repay antics have completely stopped.
Now closing in to year 5 he is very much himself yet I still see he has a ways to go. Still has lots of exhaustion, but he has reconnected with a few family members and our relationship is pretty good.
I'm hoping year 6 will be even better. We'll see. :)
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Same with mine. Lots of Replay early on, trying to figure out "who he was" since he never had the chance to live alone. Some 180 changes - used to love burgers & a good stea; claims to be vegetarian now; loss of interest in former hobbies etc.
He continues in Escape & Avoid, shows signs of vanishing in that he has a high need for privacy. Doesn't want to share anything about his life.
Still in communication, though mostly restricted to admin issues. He responds almost instantly to texts from me.
Seems to be working with an IC, maybe.
No OW that I'm aware of, but definitely has at least 1 female friend who I think is EA, alienator.
I think he'll stay Escape & Avoid for a long, long time.
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Onward, you're probably right. A year and a half in I saw zero changes. ZERO
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MiMix,
Thank you for the kind words. Yes. I am doing much better, now. :)
Just for those of you who don't know my story...so well, my Ex left (ran away from home) - insisting that there was no one else....just that he didn't love ME anymore. At first, I was perfect...there was NO NEED for me to change....that it was HE that was messed up (I'll second that motion!).
As time went by - he started to monster a bit toward me and say negative things to the kids about me.
I remember one time being on the phone with him (I called him, of course) insisting that he had someone else. He told me that I was crazy (and I should challenge anyone who was putting ideas in my head). Then he said, that if he had someone - he would hide it so deep and so well that I would never find out anyway!
Well, it did take some digging (I had to look in one of the drawers in the garage). He had printed out his emails to his OW (his first wife from 30+ years before) - who he had clearly been carrying on with for quite some time before he left. (2 months before BD - he promised her he would divorce me).
Yes. It was so deep and so quiet....and so hidden. ::)
When he started up with OW2 (after OW 1 dumped him, quickly) - I knew it right away....and then OW3 - yep....I knew. He had her as his girlfriend for 2 years before acknowledging to the kids that he "had a friend." LOL.
Honestly, at the time it was devastating...now, after all this time it is almost laughable! To think that his longest OW (so far) agreed to hide at the cemetery, while I attended his Mother's funeral with the rest of the family....honestly....who would put up with that type of treatment? I had lunch with his family (and him) while she wasn't invited. My father in law wanted her to stay away!
Fool.....what a total fool. (Both of them, actually).
I am not surprised that it didn't work out. She, clearly, had low self esteem (to put up with not being acknowledged for so long) and he clearly didn't think that much of her. (to treat her in that manner). They were perfect for each other - for quite some time. He, later, tired of her neediness (or she did of his?) and told the kids that he no longer wanted to have to feel responsible for another person's happiness.
And so it goes.....
L
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Oh limitless this is just all so ridiculous.
I forgot how awful my first H treated me. He was quite the womanizer. I found out years later he hit on everyone of my gf's. Even my sister's and my MOM, who was quite beautiful.
Of course they turned him down but not my BFF. At the time she as an active alcoholic and in bad shape. I have since forgiven her and she as no idea I know. She has been sober for years now and I see no point in rehashing the past with her. The past is the past.
My current X knows all this. He was the total opposite of him. Loyal, high morals and a decent man.
I guess that is why I have hope for him and stick it out. :)
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Been reading a lot about these low energy wall flower types and am pretty sure that is what mine is. He started with the dead-eyes, non communicative traits and then moved onto avoidance at all costs. He also insists that he is dead inside because I never really loved or wanted him/was repulsed by him and never respected him. He now lives with his parents and has told me "I'm no longer stressed or angry, but I am still unhappy." Do they all move in with their parents by the way?
My real question for those who have experience with this type is, I know I still need to detach for my own well-being (and sanity), but b/c he is so depressed and a little bit needy, am I also supposed to reassure him? I do plan on standing but I know being so available is a repellant to them. So confused. Any advice with dealing with this type of MLCer would be greatly appreciated!
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Dear KeepIt,
Mine was a Low Energy type too.
I'm not sure it is any better than a High Energy type, but it does have its benefits.
They don't usually find ow's/om's. Not that they don't try.
They life in more of a fantasy. They want to party it up and be high energy but they just don't have the mental energy to do it.
Mine looked at dating sites but never followed through enough to really meet up with anyone.
I moved out of our house after the D because I couldn't afford the mortgage or the upkeep. Otherwise I really don't know where he would have gone. His parents are dead and he has no relatives or friends.
BTW, mine said I never loved him too. ::)
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Thanks Thunder--starting to think low energy might be worse! My IC thinks it is very "interesting" he is living at home now--the source of his angst tho he doesn't see it that way. It's just so odd isn't it that they just switch over to a whole new personality just like that and have no idea. Mine does feel bad, or at least says sorry all the time. But he has no intention of coming back. And even mentioned that he wouldn't care if I started dating. Wants me to in fact. I mean he did leave 3 weeks ago, so it's time right? Plus I'm bald rt now, in the middle of radiation and have a port implanted in my chest. Totally ready for the dating scene! :o
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I think that my W is a Wallower. Since BD, there has been 2 months of covert depression followed by 10 months of overt depression. She stays in our spare room. There was OM initially, but I'm beginning to believe that this is being fueled by pure fantasy on her part. All of my evidence leads me to believe now that nothing physical took place and she has even backtracked on her previous statements.
I think she attempted to pursue this OM, 10 years younger, but was rejected and thus failed in her attempt. In a strange twist, I am fortunate that she is still hung up him. He is not interested, geographically not available, and hence the fantasy.
Escape and Avoid has been prevelent throughout the crisis for 1 year now. It's the reason why she fled last summer and the reason why last week she could not bring herself to come home from work because I was home waiting for a repairman. I saw her make the u turn when she recognized that I was home and jumped on the gas pedal. Usually I give her a 2 hour window after work to settle in. The repairman fouled up my routine.
It also explains all the shirts/pajamas that I find. "Hey boys if you like to party, then I'm your party girl", "what time is the after party". Innocent but also revealing.
It took me awhile to understand, but she is so depressed, it would be almost impossible for her to find the mental energy to be anything other than a Wallower.
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Watcher and I finally came up with the same thought at the same time. My H maybe more of a Low Energy Wallower, with a few fantasy alternators.
My H first alienator was his need to work crazy overtime with several different jobs and projects and with extreme lack of sleep. Then it became this one married woman online fantasy where he wanted two wives. (Anyone who follows my story realizes that polygamy is allowed in my culture if you choose to, however not allowed by me in my r!) Plus this particular woman has a husband already, yet still really wants this married woman to have his child and 'divorce' me and have her divorce her husband . ::) ::) ::)
Now it appears to be another woman, he fantasizes about. This next woman might just be a front to seem like he's done with the first one. Still it appears to be just another fantasy or just to save face from the first mess of a woman. Too soon to tell for sure.
My H is still in Escape and Avoid and has plans and dreams about going cross country to California in an RV, by himself. I thought for a long time he was a clinger, until I realized the married woman was pure fantasy so now I go back to my original thought of him being a Wallower when I realize that married woman was just his strong desire. My H is way too depressed and has very low mental energy to do much of anything other than have a very active imagination.
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Is what I read true? If there is no ailienator they would come out of the crisis sooner? Especially if they are a Low Energy Wallower?
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Not necessarily Elegance. It just makes it easier for them because their is no OP to influence or pressure them.
They have no other complication, in other words.
They may be have more time to think and figure things out with no distractions,
No guaranteed though.
A Low Energy type is STILL in a crisis, it just seems milder.
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I could have sworn I read somewhere if there was no ailienator, they would come out of the crisis faster.
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Elegance,
I think they will come out of the crisis when they come out of the crisis. The OP or lack there of, is not the crisis. The overall crisis is much larger than the OP.
My W is dissatisfied with life, her job, her faith, her home, her family, etc.... There's a lot more going on then just the OP.
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Also, just my 2 cents, but an Alienator is not necessarily an OP. My H's Alienator is lacrosse (or was at the beginning) He coaches both a high school team and the team our S9 is on. He is coaching every single day and then volunteers for extra stuff that he could delegate, but doesn't b/c he is escaping. So really, as long as they have these "distractions" they are less likely to focus on their Self. Now, they don't have an OP whispering in their ear, which is nice.
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Very true Watcher. Yet as KIT said the alienator is NOT just an OP.
Exactly KIT. My H's first alienator was his work/multiple jobs/projects.
I did read though somewhere that if there were NO alientor, the MLCer would come out of the crisis faster.
Maybe the less they focus on the alienator be it work, fantasy, tv character, volunteering, real, sports or whatever, the more they focus on their issues and solve them.
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That's a good point KIT. My W threw herself into work, going to the gym, and gambling. She has tried many different distractions.
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Exactly Watcher. Alienator = distraction from the real focus of MLC.
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new thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8089.0