Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: OffRoad on April 10, 2015, 12:13:57 AM
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I was just thinking the other day (I do this occasionally) and this occurred to me: When our MLCers cause the massive upheaval they do in our lives, could it be that it is really OUR lives that are in need of being changed? I see references to going through mid life crisis (doing it the hard way) and going through mid life transition (doing it the easy way).
If you consider these stages for mid life transition/crisis:
1. Dismantling
2. Emptiness
3. Disorientation
4. Rebuilding
5. A New Life.
Once the MLCer drops the bomb, we can stay where we are and stand or not, or we can move on and stand or not. Whatever happens, our life as we knew it was dismantled.
The person we originally loved is gone. Whomever returns, if they do, will not be the same. There will be an emptiness in our lives where our loved on once was.
Without the anchor we thought we had in our life, we are like a ship being thrown around in the sea. We aren’t sure how to act and many of us have to completely revamp our lives to become single parents, move everything, change or get careers. Disorientation sets in as we try to decide our best course.
Once we decide how to go on with our life, we have no choice but to rebuild it, and it HAS to be different. Often very different, and not always the way we would prefer.
At the end, we end up with a new life. Maybe not the one we envisioned, or the one we wanted, but a new life that we can tweak to our best advantage.
Has anyone here considered that on some kind of spiritual level, the changes we are being forced to go through might be caused because we didn’t go willingly into the tunnel ourselves?
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I think that if we let it, all things work out for our good in the end.
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I agree that I've been forced into a transition. I've analysed H and myself so much! I had a mini replay of buying clothes, make up, changing my hair, smoking, drinking etc.
I've never been alone. My relationships have always overlapped and I've sought company and attention my whole life. H works abroad and I didn't realise until his MLC that him being away gave me anxiety.
I'm not totally cured yet but I've come to a calmer position, I can deal with problems and let things go more easily. I still don't sleep well but I'm getting better.
I'm beginning to enjoy solitude but sometimes feel the urge to chat to people on fb or here-once I can go a week without that then I'll know I'm whole and complete.
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I have to say I think mine was the other way round . When I turned 40 which was six years ago I went through what I think was a transition . I lost some weight because I was riding so much , I started to compete at show jumping and I did got through a period of feeling unappreciated by H . I remember feeling unsettled for quite some time but I talked about it with Friends and H . I told him how I felt . I cant remember how long the feelings went on for ( it was over a year) but I remember one day I was walking and just suddenly felt overwhelmed with love for H and the life we had .
Things settles down and I would say for the first time in my life I felt really comfortable in my own skin . I remember thinking to myself Wow life does begin at 40 .
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I'm thinking we actually entered it together now you say that CG.
Him being away left me hanging around a lot waiting for him to come home. A few months before him going distant, a friend at work started a band and I used to go and watch them. The friend would recommend movies etc and I chatted to H about him a lot. As I started to have fun, my H withdrew and eventually I wouldn't even get a cuddle in bed.
I started to feel that I wasn't my real self around my H. Other people saw a more fun, interesting person.
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I do think that H felt threatened by the changes in me , but to me they were just really subtle changes . People kept saying to me are you trying to lose weight I was like no I love food I am just doing a lot of exercise but I wonder if H saw that as something else .
The show jumping thing again was not something I decided that I must do it just evolved but again he saw that as me pulling away from him and in his mind me feeling so comfortable in myself made him feel scared that I did not need him .
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Yep, I think we were co-dependent but my promotion and independence coincided with him being made redundant and some other triggers. He needed me to need him.
It's a shame we don't have a narrator for our life so we can see it at the time-not just in hindsight
X
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He needed me to need him.
X
Spot on there Hmmm mine was vunerable due his Grandmother passing away . OW needed him and he swooped right in to rescue her .
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I completely revamped my life after he left.
Safe to say, I even went through my own crisis. Mine was fast and furious and burned out quick but now that I have settled, I am not the same girl he left behind.
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For me the transition I'm going through is dealing with loss and in current or new relationships. I'm working on basing them on MUTUAL respect.
I hadn't really been allowed to truly grieve the losses in my life. It stressed the ex when I cried so I stopped doing it. It was very painful to do that but I feel necessary to my healing and feeling.
I agree about the narrator Hmm.
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Offroad,
Very thought provoking post.
Attaching...
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I often wonder if I needed to go through my transition to be able to cope with his .
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For me .. 100% pushed me into a deep emotional crisis . I am still digging my way thru it one step at a time . I know it is personal and will be life changing and not even necessarily about HIM . It is about ME .
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l think it can for sure.
To begin with , a bit like a few others here , l actually probably started my w's , by having my own mini mlc of sorts . That and some of the way l'd been, def' prodded her into the coldness they need to do this .
But then we get bd and your different when your married , you can afford some slackness . Actually that slackness busts up a lot of marriages to l think but , nother story.
Thing is , your thrown out to the trash and at these sort of ages , you've been married for years , so you've gotta shape up or ship out sort of thing.
And as you do that and in other ways to get yourself through it , you start to feel better , look better , get things together and in a way , suddenly new horizons type of thing . Basically much the same as mlc only we were forced into it.
But we can do what we want again all of a sudden , whole new life.
Don;t know if that makes sense but anyway .
ps , l should add too that yeah, at the other end that is. After more hell and pain than you ever imagined that is but hey , who wants to know about that bit ::)
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I know I have learned a lot about myself through this just from reading all the things I've read for him.
I learned about things in my childhood and how my mother has been all my life and how that has affected my choices in life. That discovery has also affected how I handle things with my own kids, as I am trying to be more aware of how my actions may affect how they think in the future. I don't want them to have to figure life out at 40 in order to have what they truly want...I want them to have what they truly want long before then.
I re-evaluated what I was doing, because I hated it, and now I own my own store and LOVE what I do.
I have said before that maybe my MLCer was put on my path to derail me from where I was going. Maybe he did his job and was just done. We were only together a very short time compared to most of you. He taught me so many things, and his leaving has taught me many more. I am better for having him in my life.
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I have to say I think mine was the other way round . When I turned 40 which was six years ago I went through what I think was a transition . I lost some weight because I was riding so much , I started to compete at show jumping and I did got through a period of feeling unappreciated by H . I remember feeling unsettled for quite some time but I talked about it with Friends and H . I told him how I felt . I cant remember how long the feelings went on for ( it was over a year) but I remember one day I was walking and just suddenly felt overwhelmed with love for H and the life we had .
Things settles down and I would say for the first time in my life I felt really comfortable in my own skin . I remember thinking to myself Wow life does begin at 40 .
This may also be true. I often wonder if I didn't kick my H's MLC into gear. Two years ago, when my D started driving, she took over driving to school for herself and her brother. That freed up 2 1/2 hours of my day, and I realized there were a lot of things I had been putting off. So I painted the house, built shelves for the living room, hung the TV on the wall, started painting the interior walls, repaired toilets and faucets, made a new bedspread, created scrapbooks for my girl scout troop, started riding my bike and hiking (no weight ever came off, but I sure feel better), bought my car and went off roading on some weekends (I always invited H, and he used to like to off road with friends, but now he didn't want to anymore), joined some meetup groups, went Geocaching, etc.
I know H is upset that the children have grown older and one is already gone. I look at it as "I did my job right" and am moving on. It's possible that my adjusting my life caused him to panic.
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I think that if we let it, all things work out for our good in the end.
My sister and I always say "We are exactly where we are supposed to be right now."
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Everyone needs to read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Paths-Laurence-Steinberg/dp/0743205537
He talks about Crossing Paths with our kids and with each other. There are many theories of MLC, like this one that it is not a personal crisis, but triggered by relationships, as with kids, or many believe it occurs when men and women cross. We all naturally produce less of our dominant hormones as we approach midlife, this women become more like men and men become more like women. That alone can cause women to feel stronger and more powerful--combined with kids who are getting ready to leave sparking new interests and sometimes careers, while men feel less so--as they see their careers stagnate in a place that is not the top of the mountain they imagined, kids showing less "respect" as they differentiate, and of course the oft-cited physical changes. And many believe it is this that causes MLC.
But I agree, I now look at his MLC as the painful catalyst that FORCED me to build the truly amazing life I have today--one I NEVER would have had the courage to build had he not pushed me off the ledge. I can truly thank him for that, though I could still kick him in the teeth for shoving our kids off the ledge with me--that kind of sucked... But seriously, read the book! Love and light, ll
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I think that if we let it, all things work out for our good in the end.
My sister and I always say "We are exactly where we are supposed to be right now."
l wish l could truly feel that but l just don't know ,it feels like l'm screwed and this is the outcome of my whole life .
lf it was 20yrs ago l could maybe say that but all l can say if it is that for me now , then whatever is coming must be pretty damn good but , l can't see it unfortunately.
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I think that if we let it, all things work out for our good in the end.
My sister and I always say "We are exactly where we are supposed to be right now."
l wish l could truly feel that but l just don't know ,it feels like l'm screwed and this is the outcome of my whole life .
lf it was 20yrs ago l could maybe say that but all l can say if it is that for me now , then whatever is coming must be pretty damn good but , l can't see it unfortunately.
When I think that I am exactly where I should be and I don't like that place, that's when I look at myself, what I am doing and figure out if I need to do something else. I was in that place to make me open my eyes.
As an example, I had been thinking about going back to work, but wanted to finish fixing up the house. Then this happened. Maybe I'm not supposed to be fixing up the house. Maybe I'm supposed to be going back to work. While S and I were on our trip, I get an email from a company I wanted to work for a couple of years ago. They want to see my resume. It took me 5 days to get my resume to them (there aren't many internet connections off road) and they were very excited when they got it. Maybe THAT is where I'm supposed to be. And if not, it gave me confidence that I CAN get back in the work force. But maybe I wouldn't have gotten there if not for MLC.
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Hawk, you're not that old. Try being 30 and everything is over that you thought you wanted in life...and then it happens AGAIN at 40. Seriously, I don't have any desire to turn 50 after my track record, but I can only hope something FAR better is in the works for me.
Everything happens for a reason. We just have to wait our turn to find out what that reason is for each of us.
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And maybe that job or another , or something else Ofrd huh , leads to this and this to that , just never know , all the best with everything eh .
Yeah l know Patience and thanks for that. l'm only about 40 anyway so everyone reckons but it's more about my past, everything we did to be here yet now this and being in another new here , all wasted thanks to this divorce . And then adding another 5yrs to staying here being with my d.
l just can't see much of a future .
l have to start again financially , mortgage , pretty well from scratch . Somehow figure out a place l wanna live that works in with my d and then l have work like a dog again and find a way of buying something, when that was all set up to perfection after working our ass off already. Now this .
And then there's maybe the someone new thing , l just don't know.
l put everything l had into us getting set up after the life we'd led and so this , now . FK !!!
l too always believed if left alone , life natural course , things happen as they may and often for a reason . But this was mlc intervention that's put me here not life's intervention so , just gotta wonder.
l know you have to get up again Patience and l can imagine after all this , how that must be but you know what . A lot like mine and many others here , your's was mlc intervention to m not lifes . But now , you have the chance to live what's in your heart and take it where you feel you wanna be . That's a big difference .
lf your living you for a change , then life can do it's thing for you and who knows just what surprises it has for you . Maybe it all leads you into another 50yrs of bliss and happiness that just couldn't have been if not for it all . Just never know . Big hug .
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Jumpin in this topic kind of late, but to answer the OP's original question-possibly...
I went through a what I *thought* was a short lived MLC in 2009. However, after being around the boards, I realized I never really got out of the tunnel so to speak. I attempted a start at high energy replay, but ended up a wallower for YEARS. I think had it not been for my spouse's MLC, I might still be wallowing.
Can't say I'm jumping for joy these days, or bursting with happiness though. So much on my plate. So much on my mind. So scared of the unknown. I have NO IDEA what my life is going to look like post d.
-T
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Hawk, you're not that old. Try being 30 and everything is over that you thought you wanted in life...and then it happens AGAIN at 40. Seriously, I don't have any desire to turn 50 after my track record, but I can only hope something FAR better is in the works for me.
Everything happens for a reason. We just have to wait our turn to find out what that reason is for each of us.
Patience--I can't imagine going through this pain twice but it does remind me of my mother.
When she was 21, she had my sister (3) and brother (2) and was pregnant with my other sister. Her first husband was working at a gas station, we was robbed and shot in the head. He was in a coma for a few months and died. It was 1960. She had no money and no way to survive. Since she was "blonde and pretty"...this was actually stated in the newspaper :o :o, she was expected to have no problem getting another husband.
That's where my father came in. They met and married within 2 weeks. She had my other brother and then me.
My father left her at age 60. He hid his money and was extremely mean, she did not deserved to be treated the way he treated her. Again, no job, no way to support herself and now she was 60. Long story short, she went back to school and now at 78, she is always busy, traveling, visiting with friends and family, and still working!! She is my inspiration. Yes, my father tried to come back 3 years after he left her and she said, "No way"!!!
Three days after my husband left, I was of course sitting, staring in space and crying my eyes out. My mother came upstairs (she lives with me) and said, "Oh geez, he will come back, and when he does you won't want him, go out and work in your garden, you love working in your garden" How could I argue?
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nah, Your mother is a wonderful inspiration for all us. Life is never over no matter what your age.
Life is hard but you just need to stand up straight and face your fears...and go on.
My mom had a friend who's H died when she was 68. She was absolutely destroyed over losing him.
Today she is 72, married a man who is 52 and extremely happy. Who'd a thought?
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Jumpin in this topic kind of late, but to answer the OP's original question-possibly...
I went through a what I *thought* was a short lived MLC in 2009. However, after being around the boards, I realized I never really got out of the tunnel so to speak. I attempted a start at high energy replay, but ended up a wallower for YEARS. I think had it not been for my spouse's MLC, I might still be wallowing.
Can't say I'm jumping for joy these days, or bursting with happiness though. So much on my plate. So much on my mind. So scared of the unknown. I have NO IDEA what my life is going to look like post d.
-T
Sounds a lot like how l've been feeling T. No idea tbh how l'm going to sort this mess out now .
l am quite amazed about one thing though , my sense of humor has returned just lately and getting me into plenty of trouble , at least that's something.
l had a couple of good pays at work and spent far too much money on myself plus D and l have been away 3times in 3mths. So , l can def' recommend a bit of self spoiling, seems to have really picked me up.
Try it if you get the chance mate.
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Attaching
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When our MLCers cause the massive upheaval they do in our lives, could it be that it is really OUR lives that are in need of being changed?
The MLCers create their own upheaval - we have no responsibility in that. We cannot cause the MLC at any time - it is deep rooted and personal.
Do our lives need changing - the answer is no but our lives stopped evolving and that is the difference.
Married couples tend to put the relationship on pause when children arrive/ pets /sibling/ friends/parents illness/death ...etc. There is an unspoken complacency about the relationship. It's the " we love each other - we can rely on each other and pick up where we left off" syndrome.
We stop evolving as human beings as our lives become wrapped up in other events and activities and we lose the self and the "we".
2 years on - I have evolved and yet not necessarily changed. I have just become true to me and my feelings. This is not a midlife transition although I know that there are times when I could happily sell the house, leave the job and move away to "start afresh" but I will always take what is in me away with me.
We have to continue to evolve and most of us forget to do that.
Now in my early fifties - I realise how much more I have to grow and learn. I have come to understand more about me over the last two years than I did in my 28+ years with H. I am more like the S&D before I met H. I am returning to my core and yet I have evolved and continue to do so.
My friends and family all tell me that it is like a new me. It's not - but it is the true me.
So does the havoc an MLCer create mean that our lives NEED changing?? No but it's ok to do so if that helps you to heal.
Not only that the changes you do make are inevitably positive ones so whilst your MLCer loses out you know how to place yourself into a win win situation - no matter what or when.
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Now in my early fifties - I realise how much more I have to grow and learn. I have come to understand more about me over the last two years than I did in my 28+ years with H. I am more like the S&D before I met H. I am returning to my core and yet I have evolved and continue to do so.
My friends and family all tell me that it is like a new me. It's not - but it is the true me.
To me, this IS changing. When you grow and/or evolve, you also change. You say it's not a new you, but the true you. Then where was the true you up until this time? Obviously the people who knew you best didn't see it, so it was buried somewhere. Would it have been better to have lived the rest of your life as the not True You? Or are you a better person now? This is what I was thinking of when I wondered if it is our own lives that need to be changed.
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I think I understand about not really being a new me, but a true me. When I met h I was a bit wild. You could dare me to do anything and I'd do it. No fear. Determined. I would practice shooting pool every night just so I could beat this boy I had a crush on. LOL I water skied, rode horses, on the swim team and tennis team. Lots of friends. I was outgoing, friendly, kind, love animals, I cry when others cry (how embarrassing).
H liked many of the things about me, but I think they overtook him. H wasn't as out there as me. The first time I saw it was the first time he took me out on his fathers boat. Now, I grew up on the water and had my own ski boat since I was 10. H kept telling me to sit down ::) and when he had to dock he was having trouble and I offered to do it for him. He said no and I was never allowed to drive the boat. EVER. I just let it slide. If I did anything better than him or got more attention than him he would want me to tone it down. So I did. I really didn't mind, but I lost a lot of who I really am along the way.
Maybe who I really am isn't all that great, but if so, h should have passed to begin with instead of trying to mold me into someone else.
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If I did anything better than him or got more attention than him he would want me to tone it down. So I did. I really didn't mind, but I lost a lot of who I really am along the way.
This ^^^^. I know this happened to me, too. In my case, H liked who I was, but it threatened him, because who I was was what he WANTED to be. It took him a while for him to realize that who he was/is is an awesome person in his own right. I almost think my H has regressed back to where he feels like I threaten him again.
So do you find yourself reverting to the old or true you, or becoming someone completely different?
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I'm going back to me Offroad, just changing some of the bad habits I picked up along the way. ;)
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RCR Wrote:
As a projection of his anima, the OW is indicative of the developmental level of his female within. The MLCer's anima has remained undeveloped or less developed while his spouse, the external female, has grown apart from the projection. When the couple met, something within the external person matched the anima/animus of the other. It is why some feel that they have found their own Self in their partner, onto whom they project that Self made up of repressed fragments. But as the external person and the anima in the partner fail to develop congruently, the projections will eventually fail. An MLCer no longer finds his lost Self within his mate. Extended projections are not healthy; the goal is not to switch projection targets, but to integrate and individuate to eliminate the need for projecting.
I was talking with my wife's sister the other day, comparing my childhood with my wife's. She told me that it was no wonder my wife and I did so well for so long. We were both badly broken. I've wondered about this. I think we may have somehow completed each other. I wonder if the healing and integration I experienced when I went through my MLT caused my wife to feel that I no longer completed her and caused her to become confused and decide that she doesn't love me anymore. My only hope is that she will go through integration and will no longer need anyone to complete her but will decide that she wants to be with me, just as I don't need her to complete me but want to be with her.
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To me, this IS changing. When you grow and/or evolve, you also change. You say it's not a new you, but the true you. Then where was the true you up until this time? Obviously the people who knew you best didn't see it, so it was buried somewhere. Would it have been better to have lived the rest of your life as the not True You? Or are you a better person now?
I see where you are coming from OR but evolving is a gradual incremental process rather than change. Note I also said I am returning to the S&D I was before but my evolution is still small therefore the changes are imperceptible except in my head and heart in understanding about me.
My H accused me of being dismissive of others when we first met - he thought I was a bit too detached and self assured. So to "change" me I focussed on being softer and more malleable. Children changed me too. Time changed me but what I hadn't realised is that I was losing the real "true" me in accommodating the world and H. We are all constantly evolving and changing. Now I have learned what true detachment is, I have learned that I was ok before and if I hadn't chosen to change to accommodate then perhaps I wouldn't have been so co-dependent on H.
Therefore that is why I use the word evolve. Mankind evolved over centuries - it was slow and yet constantly improving. I believe that "change" in MLC context for some people is quite dramatic but for others it is a slow, steady and subtle shift in thought patterns and behaviours. You are still are true to the person you always have been but have put it on pause whilst you accommodate everything else. Therefore the MLC exposes the lack of evolution that the LBS has not had because they genuinely put it on pause and then in post BD shock think that they have to change too. Focus on you means just that - it does not mean change. Some people don't need to change but the process of growing and evolving is inevitable.
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RCR Wrote:
As a projection of his anima, the OW is indicative of the developmental level of his female within. The MLCer's anima has remained undeveloped or less developed while his spouse, the external female, has grown apart from the projection. When the couple met, something within the external person matched the anima/animus of the other. It is why some feel that they have found their own Self in their partner, onto whom they project that Self made up of repressed fragments. But as the external person and the anima in the partner fail to develop congruently, the projections will eventually fail. An MLCer no longer finds his lost Self within his mate. Extended projections are not healthy; the goal is not to switch projection targets, but to integrate and individuate to eliminate the need for projecting.
I was talking with my wife's sister the other day, comparing my childhood with my wife's. She told me that it was no wonder my wife and I did so well for so long. We were both badly broken. I've wondered about this. I think we may have somehow completed each other. I wonder if the healing and integration I experienced when I went through my MLT caused my wife to feel that I no longer completed her and caused her to become confused and decide that she doesn't love me anymore. My only hope is that she will go through integration and will no longer need anyone to complete her but will decide that she wants to be with me, just as I don't need her to complete me but want to be with her.
Thanks for this Brain :) it has been a long time since I have reread any of the articles and the one thatbyou quoted is a good one.
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Hi All
Im fairly new. Sounds like your transition was fairly smooth CG. Its good to hear that you felt a love for your husband and the life you had one day. Could you please tell us more about the feelings you had for your husband and your life during that year? My mlc wife is (was) the loveliest women on earth before she entered the tunnel. I am trying to meep head above water while she cycles.
I cannot find any stories of women returning so yours made me feel a little hope.
Thanks for sharing
Matter
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I cannot find any stories of women returning so yours made me feel a little hope.
One of my best friends left and divorced her husband for about 2 years. That was about 20 years ago, they are remarried and very happy. I often talk about them on my threads.
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I think we do slowly return to the people we once were--only a new, improved and much wiser version of that person. The key, I think is wiser: no matter what we've been through, we take our experiences and apply them in new ways.
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Thanks Nah
I have heard of a couple where the H went down the deep end of mlc. Divoeced and shacked up with trashy OW. Two years later he left OW and re-married his wife. They are now best friends and happier than ever.
The returning women seem few and far between. Could it be that the majority of lbs's om this forum are female? I should not look for statistics and trends yet i think it is normal to want to analyse our chances of success. I watched the movie "Home" yesterday with my D. It has an interesting message. It says its human to want to make something succeed even if the odds are against you and the chances of success are low.
???
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Could it be that the majority of lbs's om this forum are female? I should not look for statistics and trends yet i think it is normal to want to analyse our chances of success.
There are no real statistics, believe me I looked...lol
For the female returners, I think that female LBS's are more likely to talk about it so yes, you see more of us on the forum.
In the beginning I thought the other way around b/c of the people I knew in my real life. Not only my very good friend but one of my husband's boss's wife also left and came back. My husband thought is was weird b/c his boss was very good looking and successful, plus just a plain awesome guy, he said, "why would he ever take her back?" At the time, (way before any whisper of MLC) I said, maybe b/c he loves her, why else?
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Antimatter,
The subject of female return stories comes up from time to time. I don't mean to discourage, but personally I think a woman is more likely to be permanently "done" than a man, so I think that is why female return stories seem like unicorns around here, BUT there ARE stories.
One in particular, search for a user that goes by "STP".
-T
-EDIT- You can't just search by username, so here you go:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4735.msg300673#msg300673
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For whatever its worth, T, I've read the opposite--men are less likely to forgive infidelity than women. That might be the reason there are more females on this site.
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It would be nice if we had some statistics...I believe what you are saying is true medusa, men for the most part don't forgive infidelity as easily as women, BUT...I also believe *most* of the time, when a woman has "checked out" of a R and walks away, she is far less likely to return than a man. I guess I believe that when she is "done", she really is "done" and there is no going back (for the most part). I have nothing to back up my belief other than gut feelings, and reading multiple sites on midlife divorce and WAWs.
-T
http://www.today.com/video/today/54856020
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Hmmm, I can't find the specific article I'm looking for. Currently that video doesn't help make my point. It and most of the articles I can find now cite physiological/mental abuse as the main reason women initiate divorce with no regrets. In those instances, I can absolutely understand the lack of regret for leaving an abusive r.
But I also can't help but wonder how much of that "abuse" could be "history rewrite"...In my own sitch, stbx is painting me to be a monster to look like the victim. Of course SIL that lived with us for a NUMBER of years knows it isn't true. If anything, I would say it was the other way around!
-T
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As far as abuse is concerned, T, it depends on the person and the situation.
I recognize, now, that the final year or so of my marriage was very emotionally abusive. He shoved his affair in my face. That's is not a revision of the marriage--he was always wonderful to me previously.
Marriage revision occurs when a person needs to justify their behavior. I have no doubt I've been painted as a crazy person to others so he can feel like a good guy. Same with your XW.
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I guess something that bothers me, although I haven't known too many "compulsive liars" in my life, one thing I have learned from the few that I have known is when they tell a "big fish" story ENOUGH times, they actually start to believe their own lies! I wonder how many MLCers that end in D "remember" the rewritten version of history for the remainder of their lives instead of the truth...
-T
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I see this with my h. He tells so many lies he actually gets confused by them. I think he believes many of the lies he's told. I don't know if he will ever realize the truth or not some day.
I would sometimes test this theory and just agree that what he was saying was true. I told him once, yes, you are right h, our marriage sucked. He was like, :o :o - no tmt, it wasn't all bad. More good than anything. LOL
Remember, they have to justify their actions because of the guilt. I figure it will turn out one of two ways, either they will stand up at some point and face this or they will continue to hide and lie because they can't face it. Either way it's their choice.
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For whatever its worth, T, I've read the opposite--men are less likely to forgive infidelity than women. That might be the reason there are more females on this site.
I agree with Medusa 100%. I don't doubt in my mind at all that husband would have NEVER forgiven me. That's why he was projecting that I hated him, using him as a punching bag, etc.,, b/c it's how he would have handled it if the situation was reversed.
Women tend to be "fixers", Hell, I forgave him the very day he told me. I chased him down and asked him to come home so we could talk, I actually said, "I forgive you, let's go home" Nope.
He expected me to go crazy, he expected me to destroy his things, show up at his work, get in the girls face, he told people that I was going to do these things.
I tortured him with kindness. Not because I was being nice, just the opposite.
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I think we do slowly return to the people we once were--only a new, improved and much wiser version of that person. The key, I think is wiser: no matter what we've been through, we take our experiences and apply them in new ways.
I think we also are more comfortable with who we are and the choices we have made in our life. At least that's how it was for me.
I think men are less likely to forgive a wife's adultery and more likely to move on. We like having someone to take care of us. ;D My mother never even dated after she and my dad divorced. She said she didn't need someone else to take care of.
He expected me to go crazy, he expected me to destroy his things, show up at his work, get in the girls face, he told people that I was going to do these things.
This is the way it was with my wife and I. She really expected me to yell at her, even though I've never done that in 36 years. She even hid the key to the gun cabinet. She was baffled by my response. I think they grow up in an environment where love is based on conditions. If you don't behave the right way you won't be loved. So they can't believe that we love them anyway. They don't understand unconditional love.
She has revised our marital history, most recently by saying that she is the happiest she's been in 12 years. The thing that worries me is that she tells her sisters that I'm a great guy. I'm not the bad guy like most LBSes. . She just doesn't love me and doesn't want to be married to me.
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.... The thing that worries me is that she tells her sisters that I'm a great guy. I'm not the bad guy like most LBSes. . She just doesn't love me and doesn't want to be married to me.
I wouldn't worry about that too much Brain-I think a lot of that stems from the behavior you have shown her. In my case, I did some things that REALLY pissed my stbx off, so I think she feels justified in badmouthing me. If I had of just continued to be the "nice guy" I am sure she might be saying the same thing as well. In the beginning, she said something very similar to me. My mistake was telling one of her sisters what was actually going on (oh, that REALLY pissed her off, but I didn't do it to humiliate her-it was out of genuine concern, but she doesn't see that), the 2nd thing I did was ask SS25 and his w to move out of the house, when I promised stbx I would never do that (I did it for other reasons; it had nothing to do with our separation directly, but she doesn't see that either), and the last thing I did was change the locks on the house on the advice of my lawyer. If I had not done those three things, she *might* still be cordial, nice, and tell everyone "we just fell out of love" instead of the demonizing she is doing now.
-T
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Conversely, I was quite surprised to learn a couple of months ago that my marriage had been in trouble for something like 20 years. News to me!
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Conversely, I was quite surprised to learn a couple of months ago that my marriage had been in trouble for something like 20 years. News to me!
I think we've all been there. I have no idea why we would have another child if our marriage was so screwed up from the beginning. Or buy a house. Or take vacations that everyone said they enjoyed. or invest in things together. Or any of the things we did for each other and the family. :o
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Conversely, I was quite surprised to learn a couple of months ago that my marriage had been in trouble for something like 20 years. News to me!
I think we've all been there. I have no idea why we would have another child if our marriage was so screwed up from the beginning. Or buy a house. Or take vacations that everyone said they enjoyed. or invest in things together. Or any of the things we did for each other and the family. :o
Yup. Clearly we were all delusional at the time!
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He expected me to go crazy, he expected me to destroy his things, show up at his work, get in the girls face, he told people that I was going to do these things.
Yeah, what is that? I still remember what my H said after "the talk". I had been completely calm, validated what I could, told him he did not get to tell me what I thought or felt, as I should know my own feelings. And he looked at me with a completely confused look on his face and said "That conversation didn't go the way I thought it would. I'll have to think on that."
I think they made us into some horrible monsters in their mind, and when we don't react in that way, it leaves them nonplussed.
This is the way it was with my wife and I. She really expected me to yell at her, even though I've never done that in 36 years. She even hid the key to the gun cabinet. She was baffled by my response. I think they grow up in an environment where love is based on conditions. If you don't behave the right way you won't be loved. So they can't believe that we love them anyway. They don't understand unconditional love.
BBM: I'm beginning to think you are on the money on this. H's family doesn't believe that people can have different opinions or that disagreements are OK. Welcome to the Borg.
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I like what everyone is saying here.
I think they grow up in an environment where love is based on conditions. If you don't behave the right way you won't be loved. So they can't believe that we love them anyway. They don't understand unconditional love.
I had the exact same thought in my sitch. I believe it is accurate, having met his mother.
Also,
I think we've all been there. I have no idea why we would have another child if our marriage was so screwed up from the beginning. Or buy a house. Or take vacations that everyone said they enjoyed. or invest in things together. Or any of the things we did for each other and the family
Yes, it is almost the first place I went. He really wanted this baby. We tried for two years, and he started bringing up adoption. He also really wanted this house, with enough bedrooms for all the kids and a yard for a dog and a swingset. WhoTF signs a 30 year mortgage if "they've been miserable for a long time" and are planning an exit?
And:
He expected me to go crazy, he expected me to destroy his things, show up at his work, get in the girls face, he told people that I was going to do these things.
I'm almost positive mine expected this from me, too, along with several other childish behaviors. I did no such thing (though I had some pretty violent fantasies here and there, honestly)
Finally:
I think they made us into some horrible monsters in their mind, and when we don't react in that way, it leaves them nonplussed.
Mine has been looking for a fight on and off pretty hard. Sometimes more than others, but I have been 100% rational and calm and pleasant every interaction since he has left.
It seems to frustrating the crap out of him and I have to confess that I feel a little bit gleeful about that at times, even though it makes it feel like playing games.
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It seems to frustrating the crap out of him and I have to confess that I feel a little bit gleeful about that at times, even though it makes it feel like playing games.
Get your fun where you can, at this point. 8)
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http://personaltao.com/teachings/midlife-crisis/signs-of-a-midlife-transformation/
This article reminded me of this topic. The author mentions mirroring between partners, and that the partner not having crisis will usually exhibit about 25% of the midlife crisis symptoms.
The author also says "To do nothing is to let midlife crisis decide how you change" and it reminds me of something my Dad told me way back before the Alzheimer's. He told me that the only constant is change and if that not making choices is choosing to let things happen to you instead of deciding what happens. This is wise advice for me because I tend to be indecisive.
So the way I see it, our partner's crisis forces us into transition, but we come here and pick up the equipment we'll need to transit smoothly to a better place. Ideally.