[Didot49]

I haven't posted for a while. H's insomnia got worse and he withdrew a bit more. Phone calls became infrequent. H still walked the dog occasionally, but he had been quiet and more depressed lately. He recently discovered that he had gallstones, so needed to have his gall bladder removed.

He lives alone, the OW that he may or may not still be involved with is out of state, so I offered to drive him to and from the outpatient surgery center. He told me he had friends he could ask. Without thinking I told him that I was still his wife and wanted to be there for him. He blew up at me and said that I was making this about me and that it wasn't about me, it was about him! I texted him later with some damage control, basically telling him that I knew that I'm not his go to person anymore and that I understood that he might prefer to ask a friend for help, however if he changes his mind I am happy to help out.

A couple of days later I found out that he had booked the surgery for the day I fly home to England for a couple of weeks. However we had both forgotten that my flight wasn't until late in the evening. When I realized I dropped it into the conversation and left it at that.

The weekend before his surgery (it was scheduled for the next Wednesday) some texts turned into more involved conversation and I asked him to come over and talk. I think I was nervous about my upcoming trip as I was due to stay with his mother, and hadn't seen his family since we separated. Anxiety always seems to lead to me saying more than I should. Anyway, we talked. He told me that I am doing better without him. My reply was that I don't need him, but I want him, and that I'm devastated about what happened to us. He admitted he's almost come back several times and has thought about asking me on a date. I couldn't resist asking him if he is still involved with the other woman. He said he doesn't care about himself, so how could he care for someone else. He said he isn't involved with her. I asked if she thinks she is his partner, and he didn't answer. Taking this with a pinch of salt!

He said he hates what he sees when he looks in the mirror. I told him people with low self esteem often have affairs. He said he has no self esteem. He also said he is lost and needs to find himself. Pretty classic MLC speak. The interesting thing is he also said that he thinks we are messing up the kids lives. He told me it stressed him to talk like that to me. He left to go back to his apartment, but texted me shortly after to ask if I wanted to join him for lunch and a movie. While at lunch he told me he thinks he's having a MLC! I have never suggested to him that he is having one. I did however joke, a couple of weeks prior, that I was having one. This was to make him curious about MLC. Not sure if my strategy worked, or if he would have thought about it himself anyway. Anyway the point is he seems to be doing some introspective thinking, which is encouraging. Before this I was fearful that he wouldn't do any of the deep thinking required to move through this.

He came over to spend time with me for a couple of hours at a time for the next three days in a row, and face timed one of the evenings to apologize for something very trivial, that hadn't even registered with me.

Back to the gallstones! Two days before surgery he texts my D20 and I and says can one of you pick me up after surgery? I immediately volunteered (even though it was tempting to tell him to stuff it!). His surgery was supposed to be done at 9am. I was there at 8am, but was called in at 10am just as he was coming around. He was fine for a short while, but then started having breathing difficulties. His oxygen saturation levels started dropping and he had a panic attack. After giving him oxygen and something to calm him down they decided to keep him longer for observation. I held his hand for the next 3 and a half hours while he slept.

His doctor eventually decided H was ok to go home. H insisted on being driven to his apartment even though a nurse told me that he shouldn't be left alone. I'm not sure if it was due to the Percocet he was given but he rested his hand on my thigh on the way back. He thanked me for helping him multiple times and told me he loves me twice. I haven't heard that in a long time. Obviously due to the fact that he was medicated I am trying not to read anything into his actions. It is really hard not to analyse all of his actions over the past week. A kiss on the nose or a hand placed on the small of my back has me wondering if intimacy is inching its way back into our relationship?

Even my daughter's both said that their dad is somehow suddenly different. The question is, is this the beginning of an awakening or cycling? I'm trying not to get my hopes up as he is still blaming me for lack of support. I know he could still be years away from getting through this, but he has been so different this past week that it gives me hope. 

[Savoir Faire]

MLCers often reach out when sick.  Unfortunately, you probably shared way too much with him and he will run a mile since this type of contact messes with their head and they have to run away to convince  themselves you were bad from the beginning (as they first thought).

I have no doubt he has insight, most do even if they don't say so but the likelihood of this mess being over soon is low.

Best to get on with your life and leave him to it.  Once he has regained his strength, he will have many options about the direction of his life and being prepared for the worst case scenario if often best for the LBS.

We all have expectations of our spouses, even if we try hard not to.  He may well come back one day but for now it's a good time for him to think and for you to get a life of your own and you will be a more attractive force when you are a strong, independent woman.

[Didot49]

Thanks for the advice Savoir Faire. Yep, he's already withdrawing again. I'm working hard to detach, but finding it difficult. However I am proud to say that I am working on myself. I'm looking to return back to work. I had my first interview last week. I've lost 45 pounds, and I'm getting tons of compliments about how well I look (which is a morale boost for sure). I have taken up golf with some female friends. I am accepting almost every invitation to go out. I just attended a brilliant Kentucky Derby party, a royal wedding party, and I'm off to a Charity Gala the week after next. I belong to a book club and a Bunco group too!

 If nothing else I'm staying busy! I have plenty of times where I'm very low, but for the most part I'm able to pick myself up and carry on. The uncertainty gets to me. I understand completely why a LBS would decide they've had enough, and start a divorce. I'm realistic enough to know this is far from over. There's still too much anger and blame directed at me. I'm not done yet though.

[Whyus]

Just catching up and your sounding good Didot. Your not as attached as you would like to be it seems but that is totally normal. We all think that we are attached until we get triggered and it all Comes flooding back..
Be careful with your expectations, they can be your biggest enemy and will Keep you stuck in Limbo if you let them.

All the best from a Brit in Germany.

[Treasur]

I'm so sorry you're here, Didot, but hope you find the support you need. With hindsight, just as there is an MLC 'script', I think there is an LBS one too. We all struggle with similar 'unanswerable' questions until we reach our own points of clarity. One of the big shifting points is when we really accept the limited impact of what we might say or do on our spouse, but start to choose ways of behaving that meet our evolving needs.

Talk to him, or not, because it serves YOU and feels do-able for you. When it doesn't, stop or change tack. The LBS journey is a bit trial and error, I think, but perhaps it is much more about who you are and what works for you than about creating any particular reaction from your spouse if that makes sense?

[Didot49]

I’ve just read through my previous posts, and the thoughtful replies. Thank you Whyus and Savvy. I realized I hadn’t thanked you before. It’s been a while since I posted. Back at the end of May my husband admitted he was thinking of coming back. He then had Gall Bladder surgery, and was uncharacteristicly affectionate. I went home to England for a couple of weeks and returned to the US to a husband that was distant and cold. As predicted I guess my kindness to him during his time around surgery, had him running away having to convince himself that I am a bad person. I had told everyone at home that things were looking hopeful. It really set me back emotionally to realize that wasn’t the case.

In truth I think there was some jealousy as I spent time with his family in the UK, and they threw me an early birthday party. He totally withdrew from me in June. In early July he turned up with a new set of golf clubs for me and roses. Apund the same time his boss left and he was asked to step into the interim role. At the time he was still only sleeping 2-3 hours a night. He was still struggling with acid reflux, and very overweight, yet they thought he was the person to take on a very challenging role! He’s still doing the job. To keep his head above water in this role he had to work 15 hour days. I think he used the job to run away from the grief he’s still feeling following his father’s death over a year ago, and to run away from the marriage issues. Even though the job is really too much for him he applied for it, but his ego has been bruised because he didn’t make it past the first interview, and in fact someone below him is in the running. I think people at work are finally figuring out that he’s not doing well. A friend of mine told me that someone at work told her husband that my H needs to start taking care of himself.

I’m still having issues detaching, but trying to be gentle with myself. I know this takes time. I found out H did go back to the OW. I found a car rental agreement that revealed she lives in Austin. I realized that he was away one weekend. I should have left it, but of course couldn’t resist calling him and confronting him on the Saturday morning. I told him that as long as he is in touch with her I don’t want to see or talk to him. I also told him that I didn’t want any birthday gifts from him, as gifts are his love language and anything from him is tainted!

The next mistake was visiting his apartment unannounced at 11pm for a chat. I was able to speak quietly and calmly with him. He told me that he went to her to finish with her. He said he needs to concentrate on his job and our kids. I have no idea if he finished with her at all, if he finished with her because I issued an ultimatum. He said i don’t need to know what he’s doing and he doesn’t need to know what I’m doing. I told him that i knew that marriage was over, but i had been hoping that we could create a new marriage together. I embarrassed myself by asking to stay the night😔 He admitted later that this freaked him out!

He came over to the family house the next day to mow the lawn. I apologized for coming over the night before. I knew he would feel that i violated his ‘ safe space’ . He said ‘you had every right to do that. You don’t have a safe space’ then he burst into tears. I had to leave to go to chorus. He was still there when I got back, he was watching TV with D22. He stayed for a while and then left without saying much more.

We had a further discussion a few days later. He suggested coming over. He told me that my visit to his apartment gave him anxiety, and that he’d had a panic attack at the family home the next day. I know he’s very fragile. I’m not sure if his anxiety is from me finding out about OW still being on the science or from the confrontation. He told me he fears coming back as the last two years were horrendous ( I agree, they were). He complained that I never listen to him, or allow him an opinion, and the OW listens to him. I said he can’t promise to never see her again. That prompted me to throw half a glass of gin and tonic at him ( I’m not proud of that). He told me he wants a divorce, but it became obvious that he doesn’t have a lawyer, and hasn’t the faintest idea about how the divorce process works. I told him I won’t contest a divorce, and will respect his wishes. I also said that I won’t instigate a divorce, as I don’t want one. The evening ended with us both angry. However he still poops around the next morning to work on some photo albums he is copying. He was around the next day too. I’m puzzled as to why he was anxious the evening after I calmly spoke to him at his apartment, but fine the day after a heated discussion.

My 50th birthday was a few days later. He had made a photo album for me, which involved a ton of work, he flew my sister out from England as a surprise, he also bought me some of my favorite Emma Bridgewater pottery, a heart pandora bead, and a few other bits and pieces. We went for a walk and he took my sister and I for lunch. He thanked me for allowing him to be part of my day (weakly, I didn’t have the heart to exclude him).

The most disheartening thing is the realization that he’s still very much in replay. I had read that it wasn’t wise to get caught up in what stage they were at, but rather foolishly convinced myself he was in withdrawal, because he had withdrawn from me. His view right now is too much has been said and done and we can’t recover from this. It is now obvious that he still has years of this to go through, and I think he’s 3-4 years in. It’s soul destroying. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy. He keeps telling me that he’s suffered the death of a thousand cuts. He still has so much blame for me. Sometimes I want to tell him that I never want to see him again. I know I love him, but it feels like he’s killing off the love I have for him. This is so hard and crazy.

I’m still struggling with the idea that I should sell the family home and move out. I’ve had so many people telling me that he will take this as a sign that I’m giving up. I feel like I need to do the 180 and show him I’m moving on. It’s not a bluff. I really feel like I need to make my own life. There aren’t many house coming on the market, and I’m quite down about what’s in my price range, but I think it will feel good to have my own place.

I’m sorry this post is so long. I think it will help me to post more regularly, so I’ll
try to do that. Thanks for listening.

[Thunder]

Hi Didot,

Try to remember what RCR says about reply.

Many of you come here and start a thread and somewhere on your post comment that you either don't know where your MLCer is in the stages, or that maybe he or she is in Depression or Withdrawal. So before you look through the resources and try to place your MLCer somewhere within the stages...
If your Bomb Drop was less than a year ago, your MLCer is in Replay.
If your Bomb Drop was within the last 18 months, your MLCer is in Replay.
If your Bomb Drop was within the last 24 months there is still a good chance that your MLCer is in Replay.


I think sometimes it's hard to tell where they are on their journey.  The stages take a long time and can even overlap, or not go in sequence, just to confuse us more.   

Just keep trying to detach as much as you can.

[Savoir Faire]

I guess my kindness to him during his time around surgery, had him running away having to convince himself that I am a bad person. I had told everyone at home that things were looking hopeful. It really set me back emotionally to realize that wasn’t the case.

There is nothing wrong with treating the MLCer well while they are ill.  The biggest problem here were your expectations he would return at this time.

To keep his head above water in this role he had to work 15 hour days. I think he used the job to run away from the grief he’s still feeling following his father’s death over a year ago, and to run away from the marriage issues.

He is probably using the job as part of his MLC, the ow will be the other factor.  MLCers HAVE to stop the noise in their heads and working long hours or having an ow to make themselves feel better about themselves is important for them to stop thinking about what they did to you.  Both are just band aids and don't work out well in the end.

I’m still having issues detaching, but trying to be gentle with myself. I know this takes time. I found out H did go back to the OW. I found a car rental agreement that revealed she lives in Austin. I realized that he was away one weekend. I should have left it, but of course couldn’t resist calling him and confronting him on the Saturday morning. I told him that as long as he is in touch with her I don’t want to see or talk to him. I also told him that I didn’t want any birthday gifts from him, as gifts are his love language and anything from him is tainted!

Keep working on the detachment Didot, it will be your best friend if you can get there.  Of course he went back to the ow, most do.  Confronting him yields no answers and just causes more pain.  He will lie to you anyway, so poking the bear makes you look desperate and weak.  Try to take a deep breath between contact and write down how you feel instead of contacting him and then throw the paper away.  Once it's down on paper, it diffuses the emotion in you and helps to stop you phoning him.  Talking to him about the ow in any way isn't a great idea either, it drives him to her.  You are also still trying to steer the crisis in telling him about your birthday gift, he's a big boy now, let him decide what he gets - you get to throw it out if you don't want it.

Most of us were in co-dependent   relationships and forget we actually don't own these men, their feelings or actions.  Step back and leave him to it.  NOTHING you do will make any difference.  This is NOT a marriage problem, it's MLC and that's a different animal all together.

The next mistake was visiting his apartment unannounced at 11pm for a chat. I was able to speak quietly and calmly with him. He told me that he went to her to finish with her. He said he needs to concentrate on his job and our kids. I have no idea if he finished with her at all, if he finished with her because I issued an ultimatum. He said i don’t need to know what he’s doing and he doesn’t need to know what I’m doing. I told him that i knew that marriage was over, but i had been hoping that we could create a new marriage together. I embarrassed myself by asking to stay the night😔 He admitted later that this freaked him out!

BIG mistake Didot, MLCers hate having discussions about your relationship and quite frankly, are incapable of any logic or feeling, so save yourself the pain.  The ultimatum was plain foolishness, as there is no way you can MAKE him do anything he doesn't want to.  You don't own him, he has left you.

The remainder of your post goes over these things again I suppose and I remember when I was in the early stages, doing all sorts of stupid things to 'make him come back' which I now know doesn't work.

When I found out my H was having a MLC, I came here to HS and posted for support and read the articles over and over until I got it into my head, what this crisis was all about.  I posted on other's threads and posted here before doing anything, so I wouldn't make stupid mistakes.  There were many times I didn't listen to what the people who had been going through this for a long time told me and did silly things.  Once I started listening, things improved.

I can now see how desperate and fearful I was.  you also seem to be taking advice from friends too much.  Make your own decisions and don't worry about what they think.  You have to find yourself in all this Didot and get stronger.  Doing this alone or with friends who really don't get MLC is a recipe for disaster.  The more you push your H, the more he runs.

I can only advise you read about MLC and understand it better.  He has issues from his childhood he needs to get through and he has to do this alone, away from you.
 
Learn how to mow the lawn.  Become the strong, independent woman he will want to be with when he comes out of this crisis.  Doing things for you will only serve to make him feel guilty about what he has done.  It would be good for you to have some distance from him so you can work your head out first.  Keep away from any relationship talks as the way he see things is that there is no relationship any longer.

Sorry my advice is blunt, but you need to get a handle on all of this and strengthen your stand.  You can see he's conflicted, be the lighthouse that brings him home, weakness and neediness will drive him away.  The last thing he needs is someone who is clinging to him, leave that for the ow who is a shadow of who you are.

He didn't leave you to find someone better than you, he left to find someone worse than himself.  He did.

[Didot49]

Thank you Thunder, yes I read it was unwise to get too fixated on the stages, and did it anyway. I think I will need to keep on reading the MLC rules and keep on trying to detach.
Savvy, I appreciate straight talk, so I value your response. I keep making mistakes, but know that I can never turn up at his apartment again, have to stop talking about the OW, need to stop any relationship talk and have to move forward and concentrate on myself.
I do however, have a question. H says that I cause him anxiety. I’m not sure if this is guilt, or induced by the few relationship talks I’ve mistakenly started. Is this something they often claim?
My 20 year old daughter’s boyfriend just cheated on her, and broke up with her for someone else. This has resulted in her lashing out at H. She has told him that he and her ex have destroyed her trust in men. H is really sad for her, but doesn’t seem to get the parallels at all. He actually told me the other day that he thinks he treats me really well! Absolutely delusional. I stayed silent!
On the plus side, I joined a chorus and we just performed last night. The theme was resilience. Couldn’t have been more apt! I’ve also just started my application for a Master of Library Science. Sometimes I am feeling as if I am truly moving forward.

[Savoir Faire]

Lovely to hear from you Didot, I am glad you get something from my posts, if they are sometimes straight talking, it's because we all need a bit of that at times.  I spent too much tome being too nice to my xH and the potential for him to walk all over me was there.  It was the wonderful people of HS who saved me and changed my thinking so I was able to be kind but very firm and not take any rubbish from him.

We spend a lot of time trying to keep them happy and fixing them at the beginning and it's out of fear of losing them,  The truth is, they are already gone from our lives for now and there is nothing we can do but make our own lives special.

Your H saying you cause him stress is actually not true, because no one can MAKE anyone stressed, he is responsible for any reaction he has to anything you say.  It is true that anything we ask them to do they see as 'pressure' and pressure makes them run.  that's the reason we promote self care and getting on with our lives, not asking them for help in any way because they see all requests and questions as 'pressure' and they can't cope, especially from the LBS because they feel such immense guilt after all they have done.  They will never admit to this until they are well out of crisis, but it's the truth they can't face at the moment.

Him saying this is part of the MLC script It's the poor, poor pitiful me syndrome

I'm sure the thinks he treats you well, he has to tell himself this to alleviate the guilt.  He actually does know he doesn't treat you well.

Your chorus sounds like fabulous therapy, it's great for us to do new things and take the focus off the MLCer for a while.