[xyzcf]

It is confusing to me how, after ten years, you and your husband manage to get back together and things still work fine. Everyone changes in ten years. In ten years LBS and MLCer would have changed a lot and they are no longer who they used to me.

Every time I have seen My xyzcf, it always feels right...I actually feel better in his presence than I do in the long stretches I do not see him. There is a connection Anjae, an unbreakable bond between us.

People that I know that have reconnected seem to be able to make it work again, and indeed I have heard some say it is better than it once was.

In therapy the other day, it was pointed out to me that I had exhibited "joy" twice during the session..once when I was explaining the gift he recently brought me and the other when I was explaining how he had kissed me....I am almost as long as trusting into this...I still love him...expect I always will and so I would very much like us to be together again..may not happen though.

Even BBhelps thread talks glowingly of their marriage now...who wouldn't want the chance of that?

[Anjae]

Every time I have seen My xyzcf, it always feels right...I actually feel better in his presence than I do in the long stretches I do not see him.

That does not happen to me. The few times I saw Mr J since I come back - 4, I didn'f felt any connection. And I didn't felt better in his presence. One time I felt pretty uncomfortable, two indifferent and the other normal. The thought of him around me raises my stress levels. 

The few times we spoke on the phone after I come back I felt drained and whished I hadn't spoke with in, including last August. I feel much better when I don't see him or hear from him.

Some of us may always feel the unbreakable bond, but as any HS member who is on second, or third marriage, knows, the bond does at times break. I doubt Thunder has any unbreakable bond with her first abusive husband. Or Ursa with his first wife. Never jus posted on her thread that she stop having feelings for her first husband and that she knows feelings can go away.

People that I know that have reconnected seem to be able to make it work again, and indeed I have heard some say it is better than it once was.

Sure. But did any of those people had a had an abusive MLCer? Do you think In It and her MLCer would be happy again? Or LP and her husband?

In therapy the other day, it was pointed out to me that I had exhibited "joy" twice during the session..once when I was explaining the gift he recently brought me and the other when I was explaining how he had kissed me....

The last time Mr J sent me a gif was some CD back in late 2007. I said thanks and that was it. Mr J has not kissed me in way over a decade. And I can't say his last kisses by then where anything to remember. Rushed, cold, horrible kisses. I wouldn't let him kiss me now. I wouldn't even let him hug me. Cheek kiss, maybe since here that is a social greeting.

I still love him...expect I always will and so I would very much like us to be together again

You still love your husband and would like for the two of you to be together again. That makes sense.

Even BBhelps thread talks glowingly of their marriage now...who wouldn't want the chance of that?

BBhelps wife was not like Mr J and her crisis was short and mild. You husband is not like Mr J. A chance at that with Mr J? No. I would like a change at that with someone I love. I don't love Mr J.

That said, I felt the unbreakable bond for many, many years. Then I no longer did. I used to think, like all of us, we were meant to be together again. Then that also changed.

But none of that changes the fact that in ten years, or more, people change a lot. Let alone a LBS and  a MLCer.

[OldPilot]

MLC sure takes time.  And no, I'm still not a fan of "the gift of time." 

Sorry that I had to give it to you but so glad you posted an update.

I would love to hear about DGU too!

Great update.

[Mitzpah]

Trusting,

So good to hear of the "progress" with your h.

I am not a fan of the gift of time either. At least, not in MLC 

Anjae, it is kind of hard to explain.  There are times when my MLCer is around that it truly feels like no time has passed - you know, like when you see a good friend you haven't seen for a very long time but are able to pick up right where you left off.  Of course, then I do remember the years in between and the pain and that he isn't really my husband either right now.  Yes, we both have changed over 10 years but the core is still the same.  Of course, my MLCer has always not been far.  And I really don't know what will happen in the future.

I understand this too - when my h. is around, it does feel right and we get on very well - like you, he is definitely not my husband in the sense that would  interest me but he certainly is the father of our children  and he is comfortable in the house. Also, it is often like no time has passed  even though it has been almost eight years.

The difference in my case is that there is an active ow which is kind of ignored when he is around me. She is never mentioned and he has become more careful about his phone or maybe she doesn't call/message as much as she used to, IDK. I refuse to talk about her and he seems to understand that, maybe it is more comfortable for him to compartamentalize his two lives anyway.

[stayed]

This is really fascinating!  So pleased that you are seeing some signs of life within your h Trusting, such a great update.  I do would love to hear how DGU is doing...

Funny, not in a ha ha way but in a "strange" sort of way, that we all now look at this event in our lives, like we are reviewing a movie.  So much pain, agony even and now, whether we see our spouses every day, or once a year, or have managed to reconcile, we find ourselves looking at it as though it was a terrible experiment that went badly wrong.  We look at every angle, twist it, inspect it closely but without the desperate desire to understand, any longer.  I actually believe that is because we do UNDERSTAND, we totally understand and accept that this has happened and in many ways, has made us much better people then we were.  Without a doubt, an episode we all could have done without but a sure comprehension that for some bazaar reason, this was meant to happen.  I guess you could say, we have all stopped fighting our destiny, now confidently facing whatever is ahead of us.

I can understand your comments Anjae, you seldom have even the simplest contact with your spouse.  Those of us that do and continue to, can't help but look to see if anything has changed within them,  hope springs eternal.  Especially for those who have children with their lost MLCer. 

I actually know several MLCer's that have returned.  All of them were at some point had vanished sometimes only for a few weeks like my husband for example but all of these reconciliations have ended really very well.  The MLCer's like mine, were very remorseful, really happy, content, actually rather thrilled to be given another chance.  Certainly, we would be lying if we said everything was/is perfect, we all know that is absolutely not possible.  That being said, all of us have talked about how much more honest we all are with ourselves, our spouses and each other. 

All of us have discussed how we still trigger and how there is no way of actually predicting when they strike.  To claim that my h ALWAYS reacts positively and reassuringly when I do trigger, again would be a lie.  He is human, he is just as set in his ways as I am, so depending on what the trigger is, his reaction to it is as different and unpredictable as mine is. 

What I am saying is, our life together has resumed.  In many ways it is much, much better, I love the honesty.... that being said, I still find him bossy and controlling and find I have to assert myself more frequently then I would like.  Assertiveness is not really a comfortable place I think or most women.  We are raised to be more obedient and submissive... it is just considered more "lady like"!  Quite frankly, I think it is a very well known technique for keeping women in their "rightful place" at least as far as many men see it and in many faiths.  I have never responded well to repression but at the same time, admit the training did have it's effect on me, as I do NOT FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE opposing any man, let alone my h.  Women truly need to work on that and as mothers we need to stop perpetuating this "lady like" behaviour and just let us grow up into the person we are going to be... as boys should be raised to not believe "boys will be boys"!  That's a whole other topic hehehe...

I can understand all of the comments here. I can totally get that Anjae now feels nothing for her h other then perhaps some disgust.  It is hard to grasp how anybody can treat a person the way her spouse treated her.  I also can understand when Xyz and Mitzpah say how at "peace" they feel when they are with their spouse, even while they were at their worse, just being with them somehow felt more complete then when they weren't around.  I was in your camp ladies.  The only time I felt any sort of calm, even when he was being a complete A$$ was when I was with him.

It is very important that these differenct feelings of the LBS be expressed.... good, bad or indifferent.  It is not speaking "ill" of the MLCer, but not everybody comes away feeling sorry for them, or any particular kindness, although I do not know of a single LBS that wishes their spouse actual HARD TIMES.. I am sure there are some, but they don't seem to say such things, at least not in this forum.

Good discussion... Hugs and wishing everybody Peace.... Stayed

[megogirl]

Stayed -

Your H's letter was amazing.  Actually, I printed it and put it in my H's bag of mail (he still gets some mail here), highlighting the portion about forgiveness.

I did this for one reason: when I had bulimia, I really believed that purging was my "choice."  Then, I bought a book on bulimia and the author said, "I believed I was taking care of myself."  And so did I.....

Something about seeing those words, in print, hit home.  I was really sick.

I don't expect any reaction, but if he realizes other people have felt exactly what he's feeling, perhaps something will register, however slight.

[xyzcf]

Stayed. Incredibly wise words. Thank you for your observations. You have certainly seen a plethera of situations.

All the best to both of you. Always glad to hear that it is possible to survive this nightmare with or without reconciliation.

[Anjae]

One more who would love to hear from DGU.

I am sorry, Trusting, yesterday I missed your reply.

There are times when my MLCer is around that it truly feels like no time has passed - you know, like when you see a good friend you haven't seen for a very long time but are able to pick up right where you left off.

I understand. I felt it twice with Mr J. On a phone phone call (legal reasons) I could hear music and asked what he was listening to, he replied and we talked a little about music.

And when we seated side by side, with an empty seat between us, on the court waiting room reading. It felt like when we were home reading on the couch. We didn't exchange a word.

Other than that, as a general rule, it was always awful. Even e-mail contact tended to be horrible. When I was still in the capital it was different, mostly, I think, because I was under the shock of BD. Or because at times things seemed normal amonst the madness. Like when Mr J would come by the flat and dine there or when we went to concerts.

But he would also get violent, or would cry, or would be nuts. And, by then, there was OW1 and now there is OW2.

I also understand that seeing the MLCer often/have a certain level of contact with the MLCer is different from seldom, if ever seeing the MLCer. And that depending of our situation our feelings towards the MLC are/may be different.

But, at least for me, it becomes old. More than 12 years down the road monster is still exists and there is no real progress.

Did my core changed? I don't know. I was 18 when I started dating Mr J, 37 about to be 38 when he left. In a month a few weeks I will be 50. There are many things that used to be relevant to me that no longer are. And Mr J's core, the core I knew, no longer fits current me. His normal core is a kids core compared with current me. Still, who knows? Never and forever are two things we realy don't know.

However, I don't want to deal with a reconnecting MLCer. Had it be 3, 5, even 7 years down the road, maybe even 10, I would. Now? No. I don't want the ups and downs, the problems that come with reconnection. I want a new relationship, but it has to be one without the issues of reconnection.

Funny, not in a ha ha way but in a "strange" sort of way, that we all now look at this event in our lives, like we are reviewing a movie.

It does become like reviewing a movie. At least to me, it does. In an interesting way, it is like it happened to someone else. Going by your husband's letter, the same happens to the MLCer.

I have hope for Mr J, Stayed. I don't want him to be trapped into MLC forever. That is no place/way to live. But that is different from wanting to deal with a reconnecting MLCer, or thiking that we would be a great couple again. It is possible we would be a great couple again, but I would only considered it after Mr J's crisis being totally over. We know when they return they return broken.

The disgust phase towards Mr J is gone. I don't feel anything I can identify. It is possible that there is still love, but in a format I do not recognise as such.

It is very important that these differenct feelings of the LBS be expressed.... good, bad or indifferent

Agree.

It is also important to say that how we feel changes. With time, with life, etc. I can't say for sure never, because I do not know. I only know how I felt know and how I used to feel.

I should also say that I think Mr J has tested the waters a few times, in his clumsy MLC way. As a general rule, if he sends a polite e-mail, he gets a polite reply. Once, he started to demand that we meet in person because he wanted to exchange stuff and I told him I wouldn't because I never know how his mood is and if he is, or is not, going to be agressive. It much have registered because early this year he sent an e-mail saying he had found some journals of mine and wanted my address to send them over.

He knows I don't find it safe to be around him - in a social context where I am with friends it is different - and knows the reasons why. He also knows I don't like to talk to him because he often becomes nasty. It makes no sense to me not to tell him why I don't want him around me. For those who may not know, Mr J was the king of clingers. It was I that cut contact more and more. He only made me feel exhausted, stressed, upsetted. He also knows that.

The difficulty for me is not being assertive, it is the oppossite, be a little less assertive (or even not assertive). Being assertive was a tremendous problem when Mr J's MLC started and I think remained a problem as his crisis carried on. I understand why he went for the non-assertive, totally my opposite OW1. At BD, of course I didn't.

[HeartTattoo]

That darn "Notify" button doesn't always work & I have only now checked this thread to find such a wonderful series of posts from "Old Timers". Despite the similarities of MLC, our situations are very much different & our reactions different as well. All equally valid; they are our very own experiences after all.

I am now just a couple of months shy of 6 years since BD. My H has always been mostly a Vanisher & I did nothing to change that dynamic. I did crave seeing him early on, when I unrealistically thought his MLC would be different, would be shorter than anyone else's  I was at the other end of some timely 2x4's over that delusion myself. But I have done nothing to try to change his Vanishing ways. It has always hurt me to think of him with the OW & I cannot imagine having "polite" contact with him & OW (now his W) like some LBS's do. I have always said that I do better pretending he is dead, but of course, I really think that is a bit of denial 

I think of my H every single day. Sometimes fleeting, sometimes more extended memories of a specific time in our lives. I don't know exactly when the change happened from such thoughts being excruciatingly painful to now being simply neutral. A transition over time, of course.

My one brief phone encounter with him a few months ago told me that he was still self-absorbed, still not really thinking straight, & still "taking orders" from the OW. When he lost his job he thought I should "forgive" the remaining year of alimony, despite his having considerable assets. Not one question about how I was doing or how such an action might affect my well-being. He had just "been told" to ask me (lawyer? OW? both?)

I love my H & I would welcome some sort of R with him, but I truly doubt that he could muster what it would take to work through the pain & injustice of his actions. Throughout the years of our M he was often in denial about how his actions (smoking, alcoholism, single-minded focus on his job) affected his family. I really cannot imagine him being able to face what his MLC, infidelity, & abandonment did to his family.

[serenity]

Good to see you posting again HeartTattoo

Sorry your H is still away with the fairies

X