[forthetrees]

Treasur- there was plenty of crazy to see before he vanished. If I had seen an inkling of that much crazy while dating, we would never have married. I liken it to shaking a Cracker Jacks box and the toy moving around making strange sounds- something in his brain broke loose. It would be interesting to see a brain MRI just to understand WTF happened.

[Treasur]

The only time I have contact with my xh is if I inititiate it which I don't unless it is something to do with our d17. In the early days I would contact him and he would reply asap, be it email, phone or text. I asked him about that one time and he said "BC it could be important". Now he answers when he feels like it. I probably could've had a chance in the earliest days to reconcile if I wanted to fight. But tbh I was so upset about the ow that I was seeing stars and I really didn't wanna fight for him.

I know where they live (only BC of my d20) xh has never told me that he moved in with ow or the address. I know his email BC he still works at the place he used to and I know his phone number BC it has been the same for years.

My xh is an out of sight out of mind. He is done. Has been done for a long time. He has told me even though his life is not perfect it is what it is and he will carry on everyday with what he chose.

The only person he has vanished from is MY life. Everything else is the same. According to my d20 he acts the same way. Life is the same except for a different woman.  That is why it is hard to not think that there is something wrong with me lol. Apparently ow is a self righteous control freak bi$ch but he still stays lol. I will never understand.

And this is why I think facts are so important in recovering from the impact of a vanisher, Tyks.
Idk if your xh had an MLC...hell, I don't even know if mine did. he may be done now. You may be done now. But I think if you read through your own old posts you will see an xh who had no sense of self, disconnected, didn't know what he wanted, didn't want to do the work to be an adult with a successful wife and two teenage daughters so settled down for what he could 'get' instead with a textbook affair down. All textbook script stuff.  It was all about him, Tyks...the MC said so, your IC said so, even your xh sometimes said so. They shut down and run...and ow gets the broken pieces. It was never about you, all about his broken unfinished man-child bits.

And ftt...even with a vanisher, we can see that. They just stop behaving like a sane decent adult and usually they were one before. Imho it is important for our clanisher sanity to acknowledge the facts and the bonkers that we did see before they ran.

[Tyks]

Wow, treasure, I am shocked. You have obviously read my threads. Thank you. You are probably spot on. I haven't felt strong enough yet in the last three years to go back and read them. 

[Treasur]

Only took a quick skim, tyks...don't worry, I've not read mine either lol.
But they gaslight us and rewrite history and we are so shocked that it is easy to not see the wood for the trees at the time. But all the more reason to focus on the tangible real factual stuff as we heal imho.

Fwiw, reading your thread, I think your then h would have stayed in indecisive limbo for a long time if you had let that happen. The fact that he monstered when you refused to stay in limbo is evidence of that imho. I know a bit of you sometimes thinks that maybe you shouldn't have gone for the SA etc but based on everything we know about how these folks operate, I think it was a brave wise self-respecting choice that protected your finances and sanity. You see very few LBS who regret doing that when they look back and quite a few who got screwed over bc they didn't. Something breaks in these people and it trumps both marriage and divorce apparently. Idk if you ever consider if you would want to reconnect with your xh if he changed his behaviour...but I am pretty sure that safeguarding you and your girls legally did not worsen his crisis path one jot and you did all you could with what you had.

[Treasur]

Belatedly occurred to me that one of the things that makes recovery so hard is that we are deprived of the information and any validation that our spouse might contribute in any kind of healing. A lot of the recovery stuff available assumes some kind of input, albeit imperfect, from an unfaithful spouse. We don't get that.
So it is beguilingly easy to rewrite our own history or feel as if we were not seen as worthy of even a conversation, even a failed attempt to acknowledge our distress.

The perennial question I guess is why Vanishers vanish?

It seems to me with distance on it now that it logically boils down to one of two simple reasons.
They do not want to heal enough to even look at the effects of their actions or how it would make them feel.
Or
They continue to believe whatever story they told themselves that enabled them to justify what they did.

And two things are true about those simple truths.
They are still broken and unhealthy and will never heal unless they do.
Neither reason - their fear or shame, or their justifying story - is about us.

So for those of us with vanishers, there is simply nothing healthy enough to interact with until or unless that changes. And nothing we can do to influence it. And no one can build a healthy relationship of any kind with a broken unhealthy person...so let ow/om pick up that fruitless job 

Some do have vanishers who reappear in some way down the line and find themselves wondering if they have anything to work with now. Seems to me that the simplest way to know is if they are willing to look at the story differently or ready to look at the real effects on others of what they did. If not? Nothing to work with. Jmo.

But gosh it makes our recovery harder and longer...so well done to us for every moment we keep doing it.

[Milly]

Treasur, I agree with your post. I don't have a total vanisher because of my S, he vanishes for a while then reappears and we get glimpses of where he's at. But if we didn't get those glimpses, we would presume all the worst thoughts: that he never cared, doesn't think of me at all, moved on to a happy perfect life, his life is perfect now and he never looks back with regret or longing. These thoughts can make us feel as if we were meaningless during the whole relationship. Getting glimpses of the MLCer, at least for me, confirms that he is sick, and that he does occasionally remember me. That helps a lot.

Although it might be true that complete NC will make it faster to get over someone, it's also very traumatic, like losing a partner to a sudden death instead of one you have time to adjust to.

My feeling about the MLCer who vanishes completely, it's as if they want to bury their whole previous life in the sand. It's too big a problem to face. However, like any problem avoided, it tends to escalate and you never really stop thinking about it. Like a debt you're not paying but know will catch up with you. You can avoid thinking about it while you're busy during the day, but it catches up with you at night. I think for many it will be like this, because they are still human, only they are very immature.

[Treasur]

I've watched a couple of videos by Affair Recovery. I think Little Wing posted one and they are pretty good, had not seen them before. Most are presented by an unfaithful spouse called Samuel and they seem pretty accurate and honest to me about what it is like on either side of infidelity. What's interesting though is that he is very clear about how the unfaithful spouse suffers and remains broken if they run away from the reality and hard work required to heal. Whether the m survives or not.

It strikes me that attachment to a vanisher goes in stages in our LBS head. Maybe at first we just want to know WTF is going on, some information or some idea of a frigging plan. Usually get crickets or lies.  Then we want them to say SOMETHING...to explain how or why they could inflict this kind of devastation and pain on people who loved them. Crickets. Then I think the last conversations in our heads, the last bit of attachment, is about wanting to be heard or acknowledged in some way. Usually very big crickets at this point right?

But truthfully, emotionally, the 'need' to hear or say anything to these vanishers - particularly after they are long gone - does keep a residual mental link doesn't it? It is a kind of attachment even if only a virtual one.

In my case, I don't have these mental conversations very often now but they do happen occasionally. Now they are always about a desire to be heard in some way, to be able to Say something simple like 'this wasn't ok, that creating this kind of pain and devastation without any sign of remorse is not healthy or ok'. But I never do anything of course bc I know it is futile. If my xh ever wants to heal more than he wants to hurt he will have to get real and do the work on his own. And I know from my own experience that it is harder to do solo. It's remarkably stupid really that these vanishers do nothing at all to try to foster some kind of healing, even from self-interest. The information is out there and it is pretty consistent.

But he doesn't care what i think lol. So I'm not there yet entirely after 3+ years...but I am there in terms of doing nothing about it 

How long was it for you before you reached a point (if you have) when you honestly need nothing to be said or heard by your vanisher at all? Even if only in your own head lol.

[Rising Phoenix]

Treasur, I have those conversations in my head, often in the middle of the night. My h pops his head up to see his kids now and again and sometimes will text general stuff but as soon as we get to the nitty gritty, crickets. If I ask re times to see kids, I get crickets. I think it’s his form of control! I will ignore my wife as much as possible to inflict as much damage as I can but every now and again I will ask for cake or how diy is. We are currently in our longest period of back in touch with kids but my kids are actually embarrassed to go out with him. S16 who having  aspergers states his dad has no filter in rudeness etc. This off an autistic kid with very little filter. H is apparently very aggressive to people every where.
I can’t get pick up or drop off times from him or even if he is feeding them. I have to wait until they are home to see if need food. If kids ask, h says he doesn’t know.

I am currently not flavour of the month as I said h cud not take son on his motorbike to college with a broken hand. Tantrum time. Xx

[One day at a time]

Treasur I listened to some of those videos last weekend as well, they were very good. They really helped me understand why I'm finding it so difficult to heal.. We need the answers but we don't get them. My H always denied the importance of OW and yet, now they are planning to get married? I don't have conversations with him in my head but I have thoughts going through my mind on a regular basis. Right now he seems to be having a great life, absolutely no consequences or at least that's what I think because we don't interact. And that makes me think that maybe he was truly unhappy and he wanted to move on... But why lie, why cowardly sneak behind my back to go and see OW? And my head goes around and around in circles! Was he always a POS and I didn't realize? The lack of information is mind blowing, I have a very creative brain when it comes down to thinking about ALL the different possibilities!! Does it help me? Nope! Can I stop? Nope! 

[Treasur]

Let me encourage you, One Day
With a little more time, the whirring around of why will fade. You will accept that something was broken in your h, something you didn't break, and he lost himself. He wasn't strong enough to fight it but ran from his own demons. And in doing so, he f'ed up his life and lost you. He will never ever be entirely at home in his skin again because of his own weakness and foolishness. He will just have to live with his demons.  But you don't.
I'm not sure if the slight yearning ever entirely goes away if the love was big.
But the whirring and the pain does. I promise.