[stillbaffled]

But what I also see is that a long term LBS, who has healed from whatever abuse they have endured and is in no way standing, is not a great choice to give advice to a shell-shocked newbie.

After reading this entire thread and having not posted on it at all, statements like the one above might mean it's time for me to exit this forum. 

[SteelSpine]

Holy cow. I have hurt a lot of people's feelings with one sentence.

Really sorry. This was never my intention.

[Nas]

Just as a foundation, I want to make a point that there are various reasons people stand. Religion, love, financial, to prove a point, etc.

NYM

I am confused.  What do you mean by "prove a point?"

What point does Standing prove?

Well I never said standing proves anything, so maybe you can answer your own question. I didn't even use the word "prove" so I think you might find the source of your confusion right there to begin with.

I hope to join this conversation later (here or on the next thread, because I have LOTS to say but am unable to atm)

But this talking in circles causes a lot of the issues in discussion that devolve into - sorry, can't think of another word right now - pissing matches.
You did use the word "prove" - it's right there in your quote.
Why say you didn't even use the word, which only confuses everyone and takes the conversation completely off the rails?

I have so much to say on the topic of triggers, but I'm in agreement that triggers are about us and are ours to work through.
I also think we expect too much of this forum if we think it can be geared to our personal needs and only our personal needs.
And we also can't expect the forum to moderate to the point that none of us get our feelings (which we are responsible for) hurt or experience discomfort with ideas.

Hope to be able to share my more well-thought-out thoughts later...

[Not Applicable]

OK, well now I was confused. I said "make a point" in the first sentence and I thought that is what she was referring to.

As to my comment on "proving a point" an example would be the one that LP gave earlier of the woman who was "standing" simply so she could reject her H if and when he returned.

[Nas]

Thank you for clearing up that confusion.

[strawberry]

Nerissa’s post and treasures follow up are perfect and pretty much reflect my thoughts.  Newbies that come here have no idea what they want, are usually in shock and don’t no which way is up and which is down.  I see responses that range from over coddling to overly harsh and then some that strike the right balance.  I was personally able to take what I needed to hear at the moment and ignore what I found less helpful but I’m not sure everyone is in that state.  But I was also being gaslit to a point that I had no idea how bad things for me were at the time and as Anjae likes to point out, it was probably a bit easier because I was mostly financially self sufficient.  I think that is unusual.

I think both the black and white stander and non-stander voice as well as the more grey tone ones are helpful and valid.  But I also thing some of the newbies responding to newbies are a bit on the extreme of enabling and sometimes the old timers that have seen too much are too harsh.  No one needs to hear that it’s going to all be okay and the MLC will most definitely come back to you or that their MLC has some brain disorder and they need to divorce right away on their fist week here.  They need a balance of first things first most times: safety, finances, self care, parental care when their are children.  They can decide if they are standing later.  They can decide to divorce or not later.  Most are not in any fit mental state to be making those kinds of life decisions anyway.

[megogirl]

As to my comment on "proving a point" an example would be the one that LP gave earlier of the woman who was "standing" simply so she could reject her H if and when he returned.

LOL!!!

This is a.k.a. "Standing for Spite."

[Mortesbride]

Oh boy howdy what a jumble. 

I think RCR had a really good point about tone.

Tone is lost on this website a lot. A tough question asked gently, with a hand sat on yours and a soft smile...means something completely different if asked with arms crossed and a huge frown.

Similar things happen with sarcasm and humour.

That then devolves into people missing the point, and arguing semantics over definitions of words...to the point that the original topic or post isn't even discussed...instead we are arguing definitions of words that every adult here knows. Then people get offended or triggered. 

I don't think it is possible to make every single person happy and trigger free. I don't think information should be filtered or changed to 'suit' one group.

We are all LBS (and a few MLCers). We all get hit with an explosion...then we have to figure out our journey. Some of us are permanent standers, temporary standers, 'F you MLCers', and some are 'moved on and happy'. I think it is important to hear stories from all outcomes on this website for newbies.

The most important thing to feel during this mess was the ability to have control over your life, and choice. BD feels like an out of control natural disaster. Your entire world is upended. Knowing that you can take back control (or as much as anyone can) and that you have options was a life line. If you want to stand for your one true love...good for you do it. If you are tired of his $h!te?...well walk away and make yourself the best you possible. Just because they choose a path you didn't doesn't mean they are different. We all start off the same, and then we get the power of choice back.

I don't think we have to filter, and alter, and dumb down the website to ''only be standers'' or ''covenant keepers'' or ''Happily Divorced''. If there are no longer groups...it looks like it is no longer a choice. IF only standers are allowed, a LBS may feel they do not fit in because they can not stand forever...or there was violence or whatever.

Variety is important because it gives us various perspectives, and a view into what our different choices can be. 

[Nas]

Great post, Mort.  I totally cosign this.

[Treasur]

Going back to the Pave the Way question....a thought just occurred to me...do we see it as Tactics or Strategy? I wonder if at first some of us read it as Tactics...things I can do to control or influence or cope with this unholy incomprehensible mess. But maybe used wisely, these things become more of a choice about our personal Strategy for how we will live through and past the mess? I suspect too that most LBS responses are fairly predictable initially...but what differentiates us in the way Morte describes is the Strategy and direction we choose for ourselves and our families? Just a thought fwiw.