[MyBrainIsBroken]

My wife has been gone for more than 5 years now. So much time has passed with us going our separate ways that I'm beginning to think that she may be gone forever. We are both very different people than we were 5 years ago.

Sis, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts based on your experience. Do you think you still know your husband? Do you think that he still knows you?

[MKnight10]

MBIB - Thats a very interesting question....I don't recognise my former wife. I certainly feel I don't know her anymore. The woman I met 25yrs ago would never have done the things she has; I wouldn't even know where to start, trying to start again - she has caused too much damage and inflicted too much pain.

[Rollercoasterider]

To be perfectly honest, I am totally confused and my point seems to have not been made at all since no one got it. I was confused from the first response (Mego) after mine (I wasn't trying to answer a question) and my confusion has just continued.

Sometimes a person is going to ask a question that feels like a challenge and it may be a challenge coming from the asker, but that does not invalidate the question itself.

I was not asking Shocked Sis a question, I said that it is a good thing to understand the question and its answers--personally, those need not be shared. I also said that others came in and offered valid answers to the question. Shocked Sis has now posted with the same basic answer... she is not predicting, she consistently highlights that she is talking about her experience and that due to the similarities in MLC script, people might make a generalization about their situation based on her experience.

I have no idea whether NYM was intentionally being negative in her tone and question, my point is that regardless of NYM's intentions with the question, that type of question is still valid. I did not say I wanted an answer or that I am asking the question. It's valid as an internal question for the person being asked...what makes me qualified. And it is not asked from a position of self-doubt, but simply self-knowledge.

[Jackolar12]

I just enjoy Shocksis thread, and don’t overthink others comments as it causes bad feeling and takes away from the experience.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Sometimes a person is going to ask a question that feels like a challenge and it may be a challenge coming from the asker, but that does not invalidate the question itself.

After reading RCR's post several times to try to understand her point, I'm still not sure, but I think the above portion may be the point. That is, that the fact that a question feels like a challenge and perhaps may be a challenge, doesn't invalidate the question.

I'm afraid this is a generalization that I find it difficult to agree with. I agree that any question, even one that is asked in a challenging manner, is worth considering and that in many cases it may be a valid question but I believe that a question that is focused through the lenses of malice and bias may very well not be a valid question.

And what do we do with a question like the one NYM asked, even if there is no malice or bias, when the question is based on faulty assumptions? Should we consider a question that is based on faulty assumptions to be a valid question? I know how academia would respond to such a question.

It's valid as an internal question for the person being asked...what makes me qualified. And it is not asked from a position of self-doubt, but simply self-knowledge.

I'm really trying to figure this out. Maybe this is the point. That is, that these types of questions that trigger self reflection are valid as a way to increase the self-knowledge of the person being asked the questions. I agree that questions that help us to increase our self knowledge are useful but I don't agree that all questions can be considered valid for that purpose. Questions can be constructed so that they cause shame and self doubt and I wouldn't consider those to be valid questions or even worthy of consideration.

I think problems result when we try to generalize. I believe it would be best to address the specific question asked by NYM. Less room for confusion this way. I believe the sarcastic tone of the question indicates that it was not challenging but instead mean-spirited and the context shows that it was based upon faulty assumptions. Therefore, I believe that specific question was not a valid question and it should have been ignored, which I believe it generally was when it was initially asked, and now that it has been exhumed it has consumed far more forum space than it ever deserved.

It's late and I may have once again completely missed the point. If so, I apologize for further muddying the waters.

[xyzcf]

For me, it is the "tone" and accusation somehow that Shocksis doesn't know what she is talking about that is negative about NYM's post. I did not see it as NYM really wanting an answer or asking a valid question, but as she has done many times before, somehow attacking another poster for her own thoughts and experiences. Others might read NYM differently, although I would say that several people have expressed their feelings about how Shocksis is a target and is being discredited by such comments as NYM made.

When I break down NYM's comment in my head, it creates an uncomfortable feeling for me, and I wasn't the one that it was addressed to. I just don't see it as a valid asking of a question. I see it as ridiculing another poster.

So if I have no concept of your MLC (not sure where this is coming from for Shocksis has explained her MLC in detail)

after 12 threads of you talking about it!?! what does it matter how many threads Shocksis has started? A great deal of her threads are people's questions and arguments such as this The ! ? ! at the end of the phrase also strikes me when I read it

or your XH,

how is it that YOU have a concept of others' MLC  the capitalization of YOU also seems  negative to me

that you can answer their questions with such certainty? I don't see Shocksis answering others with certainty..she refers to her own experiences

Do you have psychic powers? just rude

Many of us used to ask Stayed questions about how she "got her man back" and I see those same questions being asked of  Acorn. Because normally we feel that we can solve problems in life, it is normal to look for answers and possible ways to help save our marriages. I think it somehow is calming, the knowledge that is given by Shocksis and others about their own crisis, helps us to understand better what has happened to our loved ones.

I don't think HS should be used to attack another who is writing from her own perspective.

It's not about asking a valid question, it feels more like telling another that they and their experience is wrong and invalid.

[Thunder]

I agree with what both you and MB said. 

[megogirl]

What Xy said!

[Nerissa]

My perception is that RCR ‘s answer reflects  a response to a dilemma that has been highlighted recently.  This a general support forum with a huge community of people with their own circumstances and needs.

Where is the boundary between gently supporting fragile and damaged individuals and colluding unhealthily in their fantasies of love restored?  Fantasies that generally come from the loss of identity caused by an  act of total betrayal and a  realistic fear of abandonment and it’s destructive consequences.

The time it takes us to get out of this place depends on our starting point.  My own sense of identity was more fragmented than I realised before BD so the journey is long.

It is a hard call for an experienced therapist to judge when a nudge towards reality should be given and how it should be offered.  It is beyond the scope of a public forum to give such sensitive and individualised advice, even though as we all acknowledge, we have all been offered a lot of great advice and genuinely valuable support in our very lonely  moments.

I read RCR’s comment as a kind of recognition of some recent criticism that suggests there is too much marshmallow-style collusion and that we need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Sometimes we are too marshmallowy.  Sometimes (more rarely)  people are unempathic and even callous. 

There isn’t an answer.  When we are desperately sad, looking to an ex MLCr to help us with answers distracts us from indescribable hurt.  At some stage it is the wrong thing because instead of looking for answers from her or others or even wondering about the rationale of our MLCr, we need to be doing the really deep work of discovering what is in us that brought us to this situation in life and keeps us here.  While we look at our partner we avoid ourselves.

But that work comes a lot later.  And not everyone does it at all let alone to a similar degree.  I’m not convinced that many MLC people, even when restored, truly understand what the causes inside them were.  They generally just know they feel more balanced and realistic about life.

Anyway, I just think that reminders to keep moving forward are good and comfort is good too, and we can’t ask for a perfect answer Here, but we will find plenty of imperfectly targeted  but largely sensible and loving support.

[Nas]

Nerissa, I was going to PM you, but I want to say this publicly.
You often give very measured, thoughtful, unifying responses to what are divisive discussions, and I for one very much appreciate your voice on this forum.