[hopeandfaith]

Just thought I'd pop in with an update because I have a little more time although I feel like this segment of the story is only half way through.

So far no response from ow after my email to her.  H was surprised by that.  He thought she might have sent something apologetic back.  I suggested that she may have gone to write that sort of email a few times and realised that for someone who is begging H to have his actions match his words, she hasn't done the same.

As at last Friday, H had very limited contact with her after my email.  He sent her something along the lines of "$h!te just got real" and to my knowledge (which I think is pretty accurate) he didn't contact her at all for her birthday.

We had a long slate cleaning type of talk on Friday morning which really seemed to lighten his load.  He hadn't told me that he'd seen her although he'd wanted to.  He thought I'd pack his bag for him.  I told him that I would have thought that I would have too.  He told me that he had been in contact with her every few weeks from about Nov last year until current.  Sometimes it would be him instigating it, sometimes it would be her.  He did describe feeling desperate to contact her at one point after she had blocked him.  That says a lot about attachment and addiction I think.

Weirdly, even though he admits that he should've made decisions long before now, it has only really hit him now and he asked for a week to really sit with the consequences of both choices.  As he's talking out loud, it's pretty clear that there is nothing she has that I should be worried about.  I know what he wants but he just needs to be really ready to say goodbye to her as an option.  I pointed out that the week he's asked for includes a boozy boys night and 2 nights in her town but he said that if he had to make a promise here and now, he couldn't do it.  I said that I didn't think he would be in a position to make me a promise for a good while yet but that it would be a good goal.  We agreed that the readiness to make the promise is not the benchmark for now.  I asked him to come back to me in a week to let me know where he's going to put his energy.

It was a really good talk.  Really good.  We started to get to the heart of the issues we've been living with.  We both started to bring the guards down.  We've been tight ever since but at the same time, I have kept the pressure off.  I honestly think that if he chose to leave, it would be solely because he doesn't trust himself not to hurt me again. 

He has been waiting for someone to choose for him all this time and he is now in a position where he absolutely has to.  It's good for him.  At the same time, I have been waiting to be chosen this whole time and I have decided to chose myself.  That doesn't mean what it might sound like it means.  It means that I now have the confidence to put pressure on him and keep pushing him through because I am sick to death of 2 children running my life with their fantasies.  They are both as bad as each other and they have both had a telling off recently.  Still think that was the right thing to do.

Seems to have been a bit of a theme last week because my neighbour threw rocks at my son as he was driving home on his motorbike - for the 3rd time.  We called the police the first time but no formal complaints.  The 2nd time we ignored him.  This time, I'd had enough because he actually hit the bike.  We charged him with breaching a restraining order (from an earlier altercation) and had his drug fuelled butt thrown in jail.  He could have answered the front door when the police came over but he chose not to resulting in a 3 hour standoff, a street full of police and star force officers, broken windows and doors and an aggressive arrest.  I have since positioned myself on the driveway whenever my son comes home in case he decides to do the same thing again but we found him as placid as a kitty cat when we all came home within minutes of each other yesterday and he was in the front yard.  He just kept his head down and kept digging instead of taking a swing at S17 (which what I half expected).  I was really pleased that he was such a drain on resources because I plan to call the cops EVERY SINGLE TIME until he gets sick of spending the night in jail or gets arrested for continually wasting police resources.

So wish me luck homies because this week the monkeys are clapping their hands and ready to invade.  H has been sensitive to what he has asked of me which helps. 

I am going to try and find some of the articles I have read over the years that I think would help him manage the next phase.  It's funny that I feel a deep resistance to 'helping' H now.  He does need the help but I am so frightened I will slip into fixer mode and not keep his toes to the fire - which is EXACTLY what needs to happen now.

[Evermore]

You’re such a star Hope. So proud of how you’re handling things.

[9393roo]

Hope,  at another members suggestion I have read through your entire thread.  Your situation is very much like mine at the moment. You are handling things beautifully.  My H is also home but not really here.  OW makes herself known and we have had discussions recently about her being the line in the sand for me. She is still an employee so she is always there lingering ready to insert herself.

I too have come to the spot where I have chosen me.  I know exactly what you mean by this statement.  I will continue to watch your thread and cheer you from the sidelines.  I will update mine soon as well.  Thanks for your insight! 

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I will post it here for full disclosure but discourage anyone saying anything negative about it because its done.

This gave me time to reflect and contemplate my response. By nature, I am not a confrontational person although I have made vast improvement in that arena. A mentor of mine once said, "As long as you are on firm moral ground, you can shout all day and into the night."

If you were a newbie and your h had just left, I would have stated that the email would not be a wise course of action. First of all, the MLCer is deep in the fog and the OW would use the email to make their relationship stronger.  In fact, best advice is not to engage the OW at all. However, in your situation, your H is not pursuing OW. She is pursuing him and disrespecting you. You have to call out the bad behavior. It's like if a thief broke into my home and instead of confronting him, I told him, "The money and fine jewelry are in this secret compartment of the dresser drawer." I think the email from you was necessary because if you don't take action, she will only intensify her actions.

This brings me to a question that I have never had to face,  how do you bury the affair? Do reach a point to forgive and move forward with the marriage and your lives? What does your H need to do to make her go away forever? After all, you can't live and be in a relationship when every time he gets a text or a message you feel dread. He can't leave to go on business and you spend the night tossing and turning wondering if he is with her. What resolution do you need to move past the affair and know that you are both committed to the marriage?

Maybe too many questions for you right now. Maybe better advice is to chase her out of town with a chainsaw. Nothing brings out sheer terror more than someone coming after you with a chainsaw.

((((Hugs)))

Ready

[hopeandfaith]

Thanks Ever - you are also a star 

9393roo - That would have been a bit of an epic read but thanks for coming along.  I have often seen the similarities in our stories too and I look forward to you updating your thread so I can cheer you on from the sidelines too 

However, in your situation, your H is not pursuing OW. She is pursuing him and disrespecting you. You have to call out the bad behavior. It's like if a thief broke into my home and instead of confronting him, I told him, "The money and fine jewelry are in this secret compartment of the dresser drawer." I think the email from you was necessary because if you don't take action, she will only intensify her actions.

((((Hugs)))

That's exactly how I feel Ready.  It was time.  I was sick to death of standing aside to let her try and steal my family guilt free.   Although H tells me that the way they began their relationship weighed very heavily on her    Uhuh.

It is screamingly obvious to me that they are both as bad as each other.  She actually left the company they worked for (he couldn't) and then she went overseas so it appears, on paper, that she has made a bit of an effort to break free.  H and I spoke on the phone this morning briefly before he was meeting a friend for coffee.  As he is in her town at the moment, he followed it up with a text to say that he'd had a text from her yesterday telling him that she was in another town looking for a rental at the moment and that he thought I'd like to know.  He obviously realised that I doubted the fact that he was meeting another friend for coffee.

She knew he was going to be there this week so it appears she has left town to avoid him.  He could still see her tomorrow when he has to go through the city she is in on his way home.  I don't doubt that he will really want to now that she has played hard to get....which is exactly what it is.  Why tell him of her plans at all?  Neither of their words match their actions because she could have ignored his text if he was the one that instigated contact.

This brings me to a question that I have never had to face,  how do you bury the affair? Do reach a point to forgive and move forward with the marriage and your lives? What does your H need to do to make her go away forever? After all, you can't live and be in a relationship when every time he gets a text or a message you feel dread. He can't leave to go on business and you spend the night tossing and turning wondering if he is with her. What resolution do you need to move past the affair and know that you are both committed to the marriage?

It appears I can reach a point of forgiveness and was able to be in our relationship wholeheartedly after he returned the first time.  I don't know how but I seem to be able to park it. 

What do I need to see from him?  Current ow is just another actress in the show (or face for the dartboard).  He has been describing a lost feeling since day one and has tried to fill it with a number of women, including me.  He has overwhelming evidence now that none of us can do it and I can tell he's freaking out a little bit as to what to do next.  He doesn't trust that a psychologist will help yet and I must admit, I have dealt with a number in my working life that I would never send my family to.  The good ones are brilliant but hard to find.

He is genuinely tired and looking for peace so I feel he is more open to doing the hard work now than he ever has been. I have also reached that point where I am no longer fooled by the romantic notion that they might have something we don't have.  They don't.  They just don't want to find a healthy way to grow up so they feed each others tragic "just can't let you go" fantasy.  I plan to help him and have already sent him some articles yesterday to see how he reacts to that.  I can tell he is grieving the loss of more than her now - he is grieving the end of an era.

[9393roo]

All very interesting and relatable stuff here Hope!

   I can tell he is grieving the loss of more than her now - he is grieving the end of an era.

I believe this is what my H is now having to face.  His OW played a huge role in building our company in her town.  After the affair ended  2 years ago he grieved the loss of her and their relationship, now he needs to grieve the glory days she brought the company.  It now is the end of the end of an era.  The company has come to a screeching halt in her town and he is trying desperately to get that feeling back.  It can’t happen while he is still married to me, also other people know of the affair and are sick of both of them. 

Thanks for posting, learning a lot!

[hopeandfaith]

It is almost admirable how much mental effort they put into getting the feeling back.  If they put that much effort into getting better, it would be awesome.  You just reminded me of a conversation I had with H over 10 years ago - pre all BD's.  My parents marriage was on the rocks and I was talking about them working on it.  H said "there's no point flogging a dead horse".  It hurt me at the time because I took it to mean that he would bail on us if there was ever the slightest reason to.  I was wrong, he bailed on us without the slightest reason to!  And, flogging a dead horse?  Well thats just the epitome of ironic.

The monkeys have been loud this morning.  They are telling me that everything he has told me is a lie.  That he told me that ow was in another town to give him the freedom to move around the town he was in without me freaking out if I checked his 'dot'.  He met that friend for coffee and then he went for a nice walk around the lake instead of a run like he would normally do.  Did he?  Did he meet a female other than ow and got his fix that way?  He then went out to dinner at a Thai restaurant in the evening.  In the airline industry they get used to eating alone so its feasible but did he eat alone last night?

I resent that I am well and truly in his crazy pond this morning.  It's hard to stay above the surface.  My self talk includes telling myself that it doesn't really matter in the long run because his choices remain the same and he knows it.  I am also trying unsuccessfully to focus on what I would be doing if H wasn't here at all and I was fully focused on myself. 

I think I am scared that I won't have the energy to continue or the strength to end it.  Either way, fear is a visitor this morning.

He called this morning to tell me that he is now going away next week but he's going to a different city.  He was also pleased to report that most of his trips away will now be at that city because they have opened up the simulator in that city.  He hates going to the place he has been to this week because it is at a large training facility owned by the company and it is dorm room accommodation - not a hotel.  I am glad because he would have no need to travel to or through either of the towns that ow could be in.  But - she could travel to him.  Or - she could be in the other town looking for rentals for both of them.  Grrr those bloody monkeys.  I will know a lot more tomorrow and probably tonight just by his demeanour.

Wish me luck  getting out of the crazy pond, drying off and onto stable H&F cultivated ground.

[LBS_Les]

It is almost admirable how much mental effort they put into getting the feeling back.  If they put that much effort into getting better, it would be awesome.  You just reminded me of a conversation I had with H over 10 years ago - pre all BD's.  My parents marriage was on the rocks and I was talking about them working on it.  H said "there's no point flogging a dead horse".  It hurt me at the time because I took it to mean that he would bail on us if there was ever the slightest reason to.  I was wrong, he bailed on us without the slightest reason to!  And, flogging a dead horse?  Well thats just the epitome of ironic.

The monkeys have been loud this morning.  They are telling me that everything he has told me is a lie.  That he told me that ow was in another town to give him the freedom to move around the town he was in without me freaking out if I checked his 'dot'.  He met that friend for coffee and then he went for a nice walk around the lake instead of a run like he would normally do.  Did he?  Did he meet a female other than ow and got his fix that way?  He then went out to dinner at a Thai restaurant in the evening.  In the airline industry they get used to eating alone so its feasible but did he eat alone last night?

I resent that I am well and truly in his crazy pond this morning.  It's hard to stay above the surface.  My self talk includes telling myself that it doesn't really matter in the long run because his choices remain the same and he knows it.  I am also trying unsuccessfully to focus on what I would be doing if H wasn't here at all and I was fully focused on myself. 

I think I am scared that I won't have the energy to continue or the strength to end it.  Either way, fear is a visitor this morning.

He called this morning to tell me that he is now going away next week but he's going to a different city.  He was also pleased to report that most of his trips away will now be at that city because they have opened up the simulator in that city.  He hates going to the place he has been to this week because it is at a large training facility owned by the company and it is dorm room accommodation - not a hotel.  I am glad because he would have no need to travel to or through either of the towns that ow could be in.  But - she could travel to him.  Or - she could be in the other town looking for rentals for both of them.  Grrr those bloody monkeys.  I will know a lot more tomorrow and probably tonight just by his demeanour.

Wish me luck  getting out of the crazy pond, drying off and onto stable H&F cultivated ground.

H&F, please let me know how you do it....Perhaps I haven't fully detached (shocker), but I would be losing my mind.  All of these trips, and check ins, they seem healthy, but in my mind,I would be assuming he is with her. 

I know you know better than this, so please don't think I am trying to plant any seeds.  I sense your confidence, your "meh".  How do you get there?

[9393roo]

Hope,

I completely understand all of your thoughts.  My H came home yesterday from a business trip to town where OW lives.  He has to go here at least 2 times a month.  Every single time he returns the monkeys make an appearance.  Thoughts of “I am such a fool for believing him” go through my head often.

He cycles with how much communication he provides when he is traveling and I cycle with focusing on myself.  I believe he is starting to see that I know about he double life he was leading and it is bothering him.   I told myself about the OW withdrawal I would never do this again.  I told him again last night that If he inserts the OW into his life in anyway I was out.  I will find out as many employees we have talk.  If it starts again they will say something to me I’m sure.  It’s horrible to feel like I have to have spies.

My plan B is always circulating in my head.  I hope someday it will stop and I can focus on plan A instead.  A happy, trustful, committed relationship with my H.  I just don’t know if it will ever come because of all the damage.  I know it won’t unless he see it.  Really sees it. 

 

[hopeandfaith]

Gee I really could have written your last post 9393roo!  I too have a plan B circling around in my head.  I also feel like I am a fool for believing him and I am also having trouble focusing on myself.

I seem to be able to observe myself a little bit more now and can see that I have been sucked under by his energy and emotional noise.  I am fighting to get my equilibrium and hope to be able to do so over the next couple of days while he is away again.  The other side of that is the monkeys come back nice and strong.  Fortunately he is not anywhere near her town for at least the next 3 weeks and he seemed genuinely pleased about that.  I take that to mean that he has zero self control at the moment.  He is drinking more than usual too.

I checked the phone bill for the first time since I can remember because I knew I would be able to work out her new number (unless they were using messenger or some other means).  I narrowed it down and recruited Evermore to give her a call and confirm.  She willingly obliged and I am super grateful.  Bless your heart Ever xx.  It seems my email never made it to ow which really disappoints me.  She knows I sent one and H may have given her the broad strokes of what it said but he only read it once.  I wanted her number in case I want to try again.

I was able to confirm that contact started when he said it did (on May 14) albeit earlier in the day.  That was a bit of a theme actually. He has roughly told me the truth but has underplayed the amount of contact while he was away last week.  No phone calls but there was an initial email from him (slightly different email address which I now also have).  There has been nothing since Sat but he has just gone away again so I probably expect it will start up again.  Don't know what I am going to do about that yet except that step one is : H&F needs to get grounded.

We spoke on Sunday while out on a beautiful drive in the country.  I had to initiate and this time he was less open hearted.  I reminded him that he'd asked for a week to consider the consequences of his choices and I wanted to know where that left him.  Apparently he hadn't really thought about it other than his mind hadn't changed and that we are together (so therefore he can't be with her).

He told me that he'd had limited contact with her and it seems she is adamant that she will have nothing to do with him while he is with me (except for lots and lots of firetrucking texts  ).  I feel like this strong approach is just making her more attractive and him sadder.  I am disappointed to say that he is not driving the show here at all.  He really gave me nothing solid on Sunday which makes me pretty angry.

I am angry that he thinks he can just deal with this in his own sweet time and as comfortably as possible for him.  Probably thinks that I am none the wiser too.  Having said that, I was definitely off yesterday after seeing the phone bill and he commented on it.  Super attentive with the acts of service and asked me why I was off.  I just said that some days, my head is more full than others.  I also slept on the couch for most of the night because I just needed my own space.

Really not having much fun at the moment.  Rotten bugger!!