[hopeandfaith]

Oh Roo, I am so sorry you've been hit by another blow.  I can completely relate to how you feel.  I know that you will settle and find your way forward again - and probably in record time (due to practice).

They do say that it's darkest before the dawn but we also have no way of knowing if this will just never end.  Bigger moves always feel the most enticing on days like these but give yourself a chance to take a breath and straighten your shoulders.

Not surprised to see that you all agree that it was likely ow.  We got a few more details about the call.  Apparently the caller said that H is really depressed and has had several conversations about flying his plane into a hill.  Really?  Who has several conversations about that?  H has only been to that State twice since March so he has offered the names of every person he had contact with while there.  Due to COVID, its a pretty short list.  If the call was made from another state (ie ours) it just supports the theory that it's vindictive and aimed at diverting suspicion because otherwise, why wouldn't you call the local authorities.

H also gave my name to the medical officer and she called me yesterday.  I think she felt quite comfortable with my assessment.  I have training in mental health first aid and first hand experience of a person who committed suicide.  I was very comfortable having that conversation with her - its a language I understand and she said I was definitely a mitigating factor.  H is stood down until he passes a medical next week and the company are being very good about it.  Everyone knows it is a vexatious claim.

H is angry and wholeheartedly believes that there is no one (besides a guy from years ago) that he has upset enough to do this.  The elephant is still there but I suppose it doesn't really matter in the long run.  Doesn't change my actions.

Gotta go, be back later

[9393roo]

Thanks Hope,

I didn’t mean to highjack your thread with my problems!  Maybe it can help someone else who is in the same stage as we are.  Limbo.

I have to say besides BD this is one of the darkest places I’ve seen my H.  He has gone into complete shutdown and is manic about his company.  I’m hearing from more and more people about how he is forgetting everything, is snappy and rude.  It’s not the same boss they used to love, he is not the same H I used to love. 

He is traveling and sent me a text last night that said “Don’t give up on me”. I just responded “Please fix yourself and don’t give up on yourself”. He responded with an angry “you need fixing too”.  I just said “I intend to fix myself, you’re right”.  He responded with more anger until I just stopped. 

Is this darkest before the dawn?  Who knows.  I am standing up a little straighter this morning and starting The work to “fix myself” again.  All of my kids are on their way home and we have a beach house for the weekend.  Who knows if my H remembered or if he will even go.  At this point, I don’t care.

Reconnecting is not for the faint of heart for sure.  Big changes are coming my way, I feel it.  Big changes need to come my way.  My old marriage is completely dead.  Wonder if something new will take its place.  I know that I can’t be the only one who wants a new marriage.  Hope my H can fix himself before all those who love him give up on him. 

Again, sorry for highjacking!  Off to plan a great weekend!

[hopeandfaith]

Just thought I would post a little update although there isn't much to report thankfully.

H's investigation is now closed although it did go on a little longer than first thought.  The CASA side of it was shut down very quickly with H declared a victim of a vexatious claim.  He didn't need to go for the blood test or any other medical consults.  He did a couple of "check flights" to prove his mental health and he is back on deck this week - unfortunately back to ow's neck of the woods.

When this came through on his roster about 10 days ago, it prompted a 'where are you now' conversation.  Contact has fizzled out and H no longer has her number.  He offered to block her email and I said that would be good but I am not sure if he has.  I wish he did have her number so he could block it but apparently he doesn't and I think I believe him.  He offered to call in sick for this week but given the kerfuffle lately, that wouldn't be a good idea. 

Overall it was a good conversation which felt honest and more like we were talking about an addiction that he needs to manage rather than a person.  I asked him to plan for the weak moments because they are likely to happen.  I have sensed a slight increase of weight on his shoulders over the last few days as this trip approached.  As I type, he is driving to her home town from the town she used to live in (not sure which one she is in right now).  The last time he did this was with her.  He would normally fly but flights were booked so he has to do a 5 hour drive.

I am choosing to let it go and focus on the last couple of weeks which have been really solid.  The CASA $h!te fight was a bit of a blessing in the end because he was really distracted from thoughts of ow and also at home for 8 nights more than he would have otherwise been.  I honestly felt no vibe or presence of her whatsoever.  I haven't checked the phone bill because I haven't felt like I needed to at all. 

We have really enjoyed our time together and it has been a bit productive too.  I have been wanting to refurbish the bedroom furniture that H had at his place because I like it better than the one we had.  I never got round to it and it was just causing a mess so H suggested we sell the lot and start again.  I put it all up for sale and the furniture we are sleeping on sold within 24 hours.  We are now sleeping on a mattress on the floor for 6 weeks until our new furniture arrives.  I suggested that this might be a good opportunity to re-paint and re-carpet and H initially completely rejected the idea because he couldn't deal with even more mess.  Within 24 hours he had come around and within 72 hours, it was done.  These little acts of service seem to really help him settle down a bit and have been a feature of both returns.

Anyhoo, the monkeys are here for a bit this week but I will manage them and focus forward.  Hoping to have a bit more H free time this week to check in on some of my forum friends too 

[Milly]

Hope, I'm so glad your H has gotten through this nasty episode at work and that during that time you have both grown closer. Love the sound of a completely new bedroom for both of you. Even love the idea of camping out on a mattress on the floor for a few weeks! A little like being students.

You have been amazing and so patient through all this. I find it really interesting that your H is feeling heavier now that he has to face going back to OW territory. I think this is a good sign. I remember my H's all smily to himself the nights before he was due to go to OW city, although I didn't know about OW at the time.  In hind sight, it was grotesque. Glad that for your H going to OW town now is not a thing to look forward to. I wouldn't be surprised that even though your H doesn't think OW sent the anonymous tip, the bug is in his ear. Good if he finally starts seeing her for what she is.

[hopeandfaith]

And wouldn't you know it...I spoke too soon.

The monkeys got real loud when H decided last Tues night that he would catch up with friends at the local hotel for a few beers.  He would know this is a trigger for me because he knows that drinking in enemy territory is an arsehole thing to do.  I tried to stay calm and think I managed.  He sent me a snapchat photo of the guys which I appreciated.

Night 2 and he is going out again.  Real weird vibe from him this time though.  He ended up having 1 beer and then going back to his room to drink.  Called me at about 10pm to say goodnight and sounded flat.  Was ow there?   I don't know if she was even in that town (W) or if she's found a place in the other town (S).  Interestingly, the next night was H's choice because he had to drive from W to S to catch his flight home and could have done that at night or in the morning.  If he was seeing her, it would make sense that he would choose the town that she was in.  He chose neither and stayed the night at a friends house in between.

The weird vibe sent me to the phone records and I was shocked to find that contact continues pretty frequently.  It looks like it had a short break and started up again the afternoon of the anonymous tip off.  It didn't happen on the weekends or from home which is probably why I didn't sense it.  What shocked me was that I hadn't sensed it at all.  That really rocked me for a few days.  It looks like texts only as there are no calls or emails showing up and they normally would.  Could mean that he has another way of contacting her.

We then spent the weekend with his parents so it was a bit difficult to get a good read in a different environment.  I would probably describe him as a bit withdrawn but it could have been the circumstances too.  He is away again this week having promised himself a 6 week challenge starting Monday.  No such luck - a social, arm-twisty, kinda crew saw to that.  Day 1 starts today and he has committed to Dry July.  Last year he got 4 days in.  I honestly don't know if he will make it that far this time.  He is smoking cigars most of the time while he is drinking now too.

On the whole, he is in struggle town and trying hard to hide it.  So am I.  Evermore has been helping me keep my cool and I have been more focused on self care and 'zooming out' of the situation.  I found the 'Healing broken trust' podcast very helpful yesterday in helping me step back and leave this to H to manage.  It is testing my resolve to not intervene and to leave this to him to sort out.  Believe me, I have run many conversations in my head about how I notice his withdrawal and that I sense it is because ow is still around and that I won't tolerate that for much longer. 

Truth is,  I don't really know what is the chicken and what is the egg in this scenario but they all seem to sit in the same addictive basket. I have been as cool as a cucumber about the drinking and smoking which leaves him no one to fight with except himself.  I think this approach is right for ow too.  After 3 years we know she is a side piece at best.  Her recent behaviour has also confirmed that her new stronger, post U.K move, image of honourable woman who will not make the same mistakes of the past and values honesty above all else is bull$h!te.   In the long run, she would have remained a lot more attractive if she'd matched her words with her actions (which was soooo important to her) because now she is going to lose what little respect she has from H.

It occurred to me the other day that she has never really received love from him because his love languages are Acts of Service and Time.  She never really got the time which was one of her chief complaints.  If you're not having the time, you're not getting much of an opportunity for the Acts of Service either.  She definitely serves a purpose although I am not sure what that is other than being a human form of beer.  I imagine that time will see her starting to sneak some requests/demands in there so I shall step aside and just let that whole thing combust on its own.  Way easier said than done though

I never posted the email she sent to H on here but I will, so you can all see how sensible and honourable these chicks can seem.

Good morning to you,
I need you to be honest to me and to H&F, as from the moment we kissed Thursday, afternoon we were doing the wrong thing and I am not placing myself back in that position again. It's what you do right now that will allow us to build our foundation with strength, to enter into this relationship honorably and this is most important to me.  It's your actions now that will illustrate to me you have changed, you have learnt from past mistakes and it will prove to me you now mean what you say.  Your actions are more important and hold more meaning than they ever have before.  I mean it when I say I am not getting involved (H's name), I am not walking our same errors and I know you don't want to either. I don't have to see you in W, I can keep my distance.  I don't want to but right now its for the best.

I'm sorry I've come back and am making life messy.  Turn your back on me and I will understand, I know you are doing it to protect your family. For you I want nothing but peace and happiness and I truly mean that.  I am always going to be here, I love you, I always will.  Do the right thing from this moment onward, for yourself more than anyone else xoxox

That was over 6 weeks ago so yeah, I think we can call that email a fail 

[Evermore]

You’re so strong H&F. It’s a really crappy situation but I think you’re working your way through it in such a strong calm way (I know you’re not always so clam! But I admire how you can pull yourself back together so quickly and so well).

Thank you for listening to me today and for ‘being there’. It’s invaluable. Xx

[Gracie3]

Can’t describe how disappointing it is to read the latest revelation regarding OW contact.  Your right, HF, it’s all part and parcel with the addiction basket.  The OW contacts authorities, has your husband undergo evaluation, he calls her to confront (I assume), manipulative drama starts all over again.  Ridiculous.  Childish.  I honestly beginning to think that these MLCers never recover.  EVER.  Even the ones trying, like your’s, KIT’s, Roo’s, Song and Dance are a few that come to mind that are trying to reconnect.  I think I’ve lost all faith in the recovery of these men.  We as spouses are strong as hell.  That’s probably why our husbands were drawn to us in the first place.  And these broken men mirrored us and our strength because they didn’t have their own.  We all have to do what’s best for us bc they sure as hell aren’t looking out for our best interests, are they?  Just sending you virtual hugs and encouraging you to channel that strength to look after your first.  Put your own oxygen mask on!!!

[hopeandfaith]

Hi all, I thought I would pop back for an update.

Things have been good since my last post and I am proud to say that the shift really started with me.  At the time I last posted, It had really started to sink in that ow is a side piece and will never be more than that.  She had 3 years to move from that to 'significant other' and it didn't happen.  Critically, I decided to not check the phone records again.  Practically it told me nothing about the content of their contact but it sure as hell kept me riding that rollercoaster with them. It was very bad for my mental health.  I was then able to come to a place of almost acceptance about ongoing contact. In fact, I thought, better the devil you know!  Until he is healthy enough to completely break free, I'd rather it be her that takes his attention.  I even imagined her emailing me, in the name of being honest, when it became clear that I was not reacting and I decided I would not even open it because I had no curiosity about anything she could wish to tell me - including sorry. 

Fortunately, things seemed to really settle down.  I know that I hadn't really sensed the contact before but I could really feel a shift in energy from him when he returned from that next trip that he went on the following week.  A real sense of relief - like he'd broken a fever or something.  When he returned from that trip it was like he was really awake and really enjoying looking at me.  If I had to guess, I'd say he was ecstatic to have gotten through a trip without seeing or speaking to her.  I haven't checked the records so I don't know.  He has remained on an even keel since then and fortunately, we got about 3 weeks of him being home due to roster changes (some of which resulted from that complaint). 

I didn't make any comment about that change of mood because it's not like he could say how pleased he was for his behaviour without outing himself for anything dodgy he did before that - which I sensed and assumed.  Instead, it took a few weeks for him to bring up "the elephant in the room".  He apologised for not telling me how much he loves me often enough and how his head space is focused on us.  My niece had just gotten engaged and he said that he was so pleased that we were celebrating as a complete family.  The world is tipped up the right way.  He still feels like he doesn't deserve it but said that this is his "forever home".

Last week and this week he returned to those towns.  I don't know where she is but H has been completely transparent and 'easy' feeling while he has been there.  For the first time in years, I was actually relaxed about him going.  The good thing about that is that he feels my energy and  it probably helps him feel a sense of achievement or something?  He keeps inching even closer as the days pass.  Both of our guards continue to come down.

HOWEVER, there has been another report this week - this time to CASA directly (but anonymously).  This report says that H has been partying with the flight attendants in the company hotel until 4 am and then going flying and senior management are covering it up.  Presumably that is why this person (who sounds female to the CASA officer due to the language used) is concerned enough to complain again.  Pretty stupid claims because:
a) no one is bloody flying at the moment so there are very few flights to get drunk before
b) there are cameras and other staff at the hotel who can be checked - and will see him going into the gym and ordering lamb shanks for room service
c) the airline made H jump through a long row of hoops before they let him fly again so there is no covering up going on.
d) the flight attendant department will be checked to verify to see if it really is "well know among their department"

The CASA agent thinks that it is someone from the airline because they know enough about senior management (note: ow used to be an operations manager) and know his movements.  H is convinced that it is the guy from 2014 but I don't think he would have the slightest idea about H's movements although he is currently stood down after failing a check so that might suggest he has an axe to grind. 

ow's sister works at the small regional airport that H arrives at when he goes on those trips so there is no avoiding her if she is on shift.  It is probably more feasible that ow (or her sister) have realised that H's career was not tanked by the first complaint so they are trying again.  And also hoping that there might be another "did you complain to CASA" text coming her way again.  For that reason, I am pretty much going along with the theory of the first guy.  The only problem is that they want to call him.  H actually recommended that they didn't because there would be nothing to gain.  He would definitely deny it but would also definitely say that the claims are true  . He might accidentally out himself in the course of the conversation though so you never know.  Once again, I need to step aside and trust that whatever happens needed to happen and just focus on nurturing the bond between H and I.

In positive family news, I had a long conversation with MIL on the weekend.  I was basically able to right all those heartbreaking wrongs that happen when family just believes that: there must have been something wrong with the relationship; the ow is a nice person; H would be happier if we (LBFamily) would only accept this and move on & he doesn't still love you so why are you hanging on.  She is not a hugger but she gave me a huge one and told me that she thinks I am mad but she is very grateful that I had the strength to do what I did and love him like I have.

In negative family news, SIL strikes again.  My passive aggressive narcissistic SIL rang H the other day to ask if they were ok...
H: Yeah why?
SIL: Because we don't talk any more since you and H&F have been back together
H: I don't talk to my other sister either (note: she was only discovered last year so hasn't really had 40 odd years of relationship history  )
SIL: Well I know that H&F doesn't like me
H: What?
SIL: She thinks I never should have broken up with BIL (4 years ago....honey, he is much better off without you!!)
H:  I think you're overthinking it SIL (and shuts her down).

You know what SIL,  I don't actually like you.  You are 100% correct and better at reading me than I gave you credit for.  It may have something to do with you accusing me of having an affair with BIL, chasing a new man in a town 2 hours away when your daughter was suffering complications from a termination, stabbing me in the back in 2016 by telling H that he is my puppet and then stabbing me in the back again in 2020 by pulling the "blood is thicker than water card" and telling H that her relationship suffers when I am around. 

She is flat out intimidated by me because I think she knows I think she is a $h!te parent.  Based on the fact that her kids come to me when the $h!te hits the fan in their world and the fact that she talks herself up whenever we are talking.  As much as I know all of this, it still pisses me off that she gets to sling mud and then be the one who's hurt.  My poor niece had to take the day off work on the day after she got engaged to calm her mother down because she chose to have a celebratory drink with her father who was 10 mins down the road rather than encourage her mother (who was 3 hours away) to leave where she was and come home.  SIL was devastated that she was told "not to come".

Can you tell that I have a massive problem with her.  Incidentally, the guy she was chasing instead of helping her daughter who was bleeding from the anus, is now her boyfriend of 3+ years.  He is yet to tell her he loves her however he keeps her around because she is good at cleaning port-a-loos at his tourist property.  That's mean.  I am sure he likes her for more than that but God help me 

Not a very gracious way to finish off but ya know....it helps to get it out 

[UrsaMajor]

Better out than inI

[hopeandfaith]

Popping in to give a bit of an update and keep a record for myself of the journey....and it is a bumpy journey!  This has been a heck of a year (global understatement) and I will be glad to see the back of it.  Poor ole 2021 has a fair bit of pressure and expectation lumped on it but oh well.

When I last updated, H was jumping through hoops to clear his name from allegations of drinking, cheating, depressed flying and everything you wouldn't want your pilot to be doing (actually except drug taking).  He had to be cleared by an addiction specialist and pass a number of medical tests before he was able to fly - all of which he did.  The attacks kept coming.  The entire family got a Facebook friend request from someone claiming to be a flight attendant with the company.  It was a newly created profile which stated that the person was in a complicated relationship.  The only other info on the page was a comment which said "why don't they ever tell you they're married, lol".   H, who is not on Facebook reported it to the company for transparency and because it involved the company name.  Unbeknown to him, the company had received an email from someone with an email address matching the Facebook profile name.  This email accused H of rape.  H was not told about this until 2 years worth of security footage from the hotel in question were viewed and found no such contact with any flight attendant EVER.  The attacks then continued on D18's Tik Tok and Instagram accounts which were vile accusations about H being a serial cheater who was a creep with the flight attendant department and was facing a lawsuit.  The claims have gotten increasingly desperate and untrue.

The difficult thing is that there has been truth to most of this cheating stuff and H has had to face it over and over again.  He decided to go to the police to try and track this person down.  That was 3.5 hours of a confessional type statement.  Our cyber stalking laws are seriously lacking so there was basically nothing that could be done.  H has also spoken to his cousin who is a lawyer about getting the full transcripts and recordings of the complaints that were originally received by Crimestoppers and CASA.  We have been advised that IT style professionals would likely be able to source the culprit but there isn't much we could do beyond that.  I am kinda glad about that because I don't want to be tied in some legal battle with pond scum going over the details of the last few years.  We do want it stopped and there are still ways to reduce our digital footprint which will either stop the stalking or escalate it to something definitely criminal.

We both don't think it is ow (or friends) because of things that have been said and also because ow and H have remained in intermittent contact. Towards the end of August, contact resumed and I think it was H who initiated it.  I found out for sure in November when I saw a text about moving to her town.  You would think that all hell would have broken loose on that one but I had felt the contact resume and adopted a watch and wait approach.  To chop a long and ugly story short, H has been keeping ow hanging with promises to move interstate which he is sure she knows will never happen.  Deadlines came and went and H spiralled down to a point where the panic of really letting her go had him seriously considering leaving.

One night, it was at its worst.  H was in her state and due to come home the next day.  He was crying on the phone and talking about how it was only just really hitting him how much damage he'd done to the kids and how he was such a c--t.  It was a horrible conversation and I felt helpless.  I text him the next morning to acknowledge the dark place he had been in and said I hoped he was in a brighter place today.  He apologised and said he was looking forward to coming home.  That was a bit of a relief because  I had been pretty sure that he was going to come home the next day and tell me he was leaving.  When he got home, he clung to me and any resolve he might have had dissolved.  Needless to say, I hadn't slept the night before and somewhere in my waking hours, I had decided that I wasn't going to let him drive our family off a cliff again because he was a "c--t" and hadn't yet worked out how not to be a "c--t".  I decided that I wanted a seat at the table and wanted to get real about the addictive nature of this affair.

We talked a few days after his return and I told him that I had felt he was planning to come home and tell me he was leaving and that I had decided I wanted a seat at the table and wanted the elephants evicted.  I told him that I'd thought the only reason he'd leave was because he hadn't yet worked out how not to be a "c--t" and he told me that I had nailed it.  That was exactly his position.  He assured me that she was about to move on (something he had been repeatedly saying) and I asked him how he was so sure.  He said she had given him a deadline of the end of Nov. 

That came and went and H remained very heavy.  She was not gone.  He asked me for a talk.  Told me that I had wanted a seat at the table and he needed to talk to get some clarity.  Let me tell ya folks...you need to be careful what you wish for.  When I sat at that table, all I saw was a bunch of empty shot glasses.  It was like talking to a drunk person and you just have to nod and wait for them to sober up before you can point out the stoopid $h!te they just said. That talk might have been a test to see how I reacted to hearing about his feelings for her and how close he had come to moving to her town or it might just have been the purge that he seems to need, to clear the slate for us to move forward.  Either way, it was a brutal conversation.   The @$$hole had actually considered leaving on his motorbike 2 days before my birthday and our anniversary.  She had gotten so excited that she'd told her parents he was coming.  That made him really angry because he obviously knew he was a doubtful prospect at best.  He told me that he was never supposed to return home after his last trip and that she was very upset when he rang her on his way home to tell her that he needed to come home and talk to me and finish some shifts that he had been rostered (he has since started 6 weeks off).  That explained the night that was really bad that I mentioned above - that was decision time for him.

That brutal conversation happened on the Wed and he was supposed to leave on the Friday.  Friday came and went, he remained at home.  The following weekend (last weekend) we had been booked to go away for the weekend for my birthday and our anniversary.  Week 1 of ow withdrawals was rough and I really felt that our weekend away was bad timing.  It turned out to be the opposite.  We were both surprised by how good it was.  The conversations got brutal again and we actually had a huge fight on our way home but I would call the weekend a huge success.  It helped us both really see our potential.  I found out that H had sent a text to ow on the Friday telling her that he wouldn't be derailing his family again.  He honestly thinks that will be it (ow has threatened to go on tinder  ). She now knows that I know everything which I was very happy about.  If she thought she had any cards up her sleeve, they have been removed.  I am not happy with the lukewarm goodbye.  Seemed like much more of a comma than a full stop to me.  I figure that she will either go away like H thinks she will (because she has so much self respect and strong boundaries) or she will escalate her crazy.  Either way, I shall continue to step out of her way and focus on H and I. 

H said that they have stayed in contact for most of the year in "bursts" and that they hadn't actually seen each other since June. Some of their contact was "how's the weather", some was declarations of love.  I think she was the one that said he couldn't see her unless he left me.  That really backfired for her I think because I actually think it suited H.  I think this all might have come to a head a bit sooner if they had been in contact.  Thank god they weren't because H thinks she is really keen to have a baby and will probably go the sperm donor path if she doesn't meet anyone ASAP.  He has quite a bit of guilt over the fact that he has wasted her baby making years.  Definitely didn't want anymore kids though and thinks she would be a really bossy mother.  There really is nothing about her life that he wanted to be part of.  All he wanted was what she gave to him (that last bit was my conclusion)

I also found out that she was only ever going overseas for 1 year in which H was supposed to get divorced and be ready for her return.  Must have been a crushing blow when she found out that he'd moved back home.  God he's been the very worst example of a man for a good few years now.  Still blows my mind.  I will say that Karma has been beating on his arse this year though and he has faced it head on.  He knows that the only way forward is with total honesty which I have to say, I am still getting used to.  This honesty thing seems like a better deal for him than me at the moment.  I am the one needing a good break between "talks" while he seems to be getting gradually lighter day by day.  I am worried about his return to work but that is still 5 weeks away so I will tackle that (or not!!) then.