[Milly]

Thanks for the update, Hope. Lots of interesting information on how hard it is for the MLCer to break off with the OP even when they know they want to. You have been amazing at dealing with all this. I'm sure you've had some difficult days and nights, who wouldn't. But you seem to winning, for want of a better word. I hope your H keeps making progress towards you and finally gets rid of this affair addiction which is destroying you all. x

[Treasur]

My word, h&f. What a s&itshow you have all been through.
I am presuming that you are finding where you are workable for you to some extent or you wouldn't be doing what you are doing, so I'm not going to offer my opinion on that bc it doesn't matter, but wanted to acknowledge how brutal and exhausting it sounds as if it has been to live with.

I smiled though at this.....

decided that I wasn't going to let him drive our family off a cliff again because he was a "c--t" and hadn't yet worked out how not to be a "c--t".

bc it seemed like such a wonderfully straight speaking snapshot of an MLCer. 

I hope you and your kids are ok. I hope that the worst of the WTF s&itstorm is behind you..

[Evermore]

You already know I think you’re amazing Hope. Kind and calm (at least on the surface 😉). You’ve got this (whatever happens). Thanks for always listening to my waffle xx

[hopeandfaith]

Thought I would document a little bit more of the journey.

H is now back at work after 7 weeks off.  He is away for a week but not in ow's town.  Hopefully there aren't any trips to her town in the foreseeable future either.  Just seems like a trigger that neither of us need.

The 7 weeks off were very good overall.  Over the Xmas and New Year week there was excessive drinking which didn't look out of place because we were at the river and that was how you could have described most people.  H had sent out a wide broadcast to friends telling them when we would be there for about a week and he invited them to join us.  We ended up with about 30 friends coming over that period of time for a night or two.  We said goodbye to one group and another group would arrive.  It was great and really interesting to see how different people bring different energy with them.  It's not noticeable until you have a revolving door situation of people coming and going. On one end of the spectrum, there was a chaotic, party girl hurricane that visited.  I wrote about her last year as H had taken her for a ride on his Harley and I had raised it as a red flag.  She is a great girl except that she wears us all out after a while.  On the other end, we had a couple of different people come who had a really calm energy about them.  They even seem to move more slowly.  I really loved spending time with them - they really helped fill my tank.

H had a detox when he got back and went 2 weeks without any alcohol.  That was nice too.  Especially since he was still on annual leave and that just usually means that he is drinking most days until it's over.  We got some repairs done on our camper and tootled around on the Harley for a few coffee's around the place. 

Last week, H started getting edgier.  He has been joking about going on unpaid leave for a year and picking fruit instead of having to travel in a COVID world.  He still gets really agitated reading the news about some of the sillier rules that come with COVID.  In our country, we are so blessed to have the freedoms that we still do but it is not a terribly united country when it comes to movement across internal borders.  There is no confidence in our ability to go interstate and then get back again.  I am guessing the COVID anger is masking other internal anger or fear still.  Still, it's an outlet for him I guess, so I play along.

This last weekend was spent at the river (the last hurrah) and H's energy got so heavy at some points that I thought he was texting ow again.  In fact I was sure of it and I was massively triggered.  Couldn't look at him a couple of times - just so disappointed.  I decided to check the phone records when I got back because I wanted to know for sure.  I think I was wrong.  There were still a few calls that needed to load on the download but there was enough info there to make me feel fairly certain that he hasn't been in contact.

Checking the phone records always causes me such a physical reaction and also feels like a detachment failure so I don't do it very often but I think that maybe this time, it was helpful.  I say that because I realised that I had assumed that he was contacting her again and it changed my behaviour to/with him.  I was more snarky and distant.  I now see a different possibility explaining his behaviour. Our 7 weeks together has probably been a form of replay or escape.  It might have been easier for him not to deal with things as we suspended normal living and were in holiday mode.  I now think that we were both a bit edgy about him returning to work and started bouncing off each other negatively.  If I am ever going to offer trust and faith before it is earned, now is the time.  Living from my wounded place was not helpful at all...for either of us.  Even if he had resumed contact, this might still hold true?

On the stalking front, things have maybe settled down a bit??  Probably only because D19 and I have reduced our digital footprint even more.  I got a friend request on Messenger from a person claiming to be Samantha Jones but the profile pic was actually a pic of a flight attendant friend of ours.  The accompanying message said that they felt sorry for me because they had been told by H that we had split 10 years ago and had never reunited but that they have seen me a work events since that time.  I haven't been to a work event since 2012 but some of the group that visited us at the river were definitely work people. 

I am thinking that someone has posted a pic of us all having a great time and the stalker has seen this on Facebook.  It still fits that it could be the person we think it is, because he is Facebook friends with a huge number of work people.  Anyhoo, I didn't respond and I have shutdown Facebook and Messenger for now.  I was semi-tempted to lure this person into a face to face "tell me more" type of meeting but didn't bother because I know they would never actually go for it and I probably wouldn't learn more from that process either.

Feeling pretty calm and centred right now.  I actually quite like it when H goes away because I can do a bit more reading and watching chick flicks etc.  Its probably good for him too.  I didn't feel like he was mask wearing on his leave but different places bring about different emotions so he would no doubt be living from a slightly different part of his personality (as am I) right now.  We can't hide in our little holiday bubble forever so onward we march.

[UrsaMajor]

Hmmmmm .....

Interesting and somewhat tangled path forward, isn't it?

The LBS has to be fully aware of her/his own "stuff" that gets in the way as well but makes the conscious decision to deal with it... The "recovering/recovered" Mid-Lifer as well... Meanwhile, the Mid-Lifer still in the throes of the Crisis... runs away? Shifts blame?

Regardless, reconnection/reconciliation is not for the faint of heart!

Wishing you good fortune as you grow forward!

[hopeandfaith]

Well H has been home for a year today so I thought it would be a good time to reflect and update.

In short, it has been a really tough year.  Far harder than it was when he returned in 2014.  You could suggest that I/we were still living in denial then and maybe there were red flags. He was home for 3 years before the bomb went off again, so who knows.

Things continue to improve although it is still only a month since he last reached out to ow.  I saw 2 attempts to call her on our phone bill (my spidey senses were going off) and I flat out asked him if there had been any contact.  He admitted very vaguely that there had been but that he was now in a place he had never been before and felt confident that that was it.  He is not the kind of guy to say this and make these false promises and his energy since really seems to indicate that he has passed some sort of threshold or one-way valve.  Closed a door, I guess you might say.  I pushed him for some details on the contact and he was vague because I think he was embarrassed that she hadn't answered.  He was honest that there was contact so he wasn't trying to save himself.  He also wasn't trying to protect her reputation by telling me she hadn't answered - I think he was simply embarrassed.

The contact before that had been a drunk text in early Feb that I saw her answer to.  I stumbled across it by accident and read her response to what must have been a "thinking about you" type of text (that he had deleted).  That was based on her reply which was a poetic vomitus confirmation that they had parted ways in Nov and that she 'felt him' from time to time.  She encouraged him to make her a stranger or, alternatively, turn up on her doorstep.  She gently chastised him for texting her late on a Sat night and asked if he knew how that made him look.....(ooh, oooh, pick me!!!....like he's drunk texting??)  She finished off with a confirmation of the anchor check and a guess that she would next hear from him when the moon was high 

So, as we were entertaining at the time, I didn't mention it to H, who hadn't seen her message at that point.  He later picked up his phone to look up something else for a friend and saw her message, along with the fact that it had been read.  He managed to keep his cool but I saw his realisation and it actually felt a bit powerful.  We talked about it later and he was very angry at himself and very apologetic to me.  He has no confusion over where he wants to be and doesn't know why he did it.  There wasn't any other contact following that until those 2 attempted calls about a month later.  What a slow and painful death this is!!

We have been invited to an event that might feature one of the girls he dated while we were separated.  I have avoided her up to now and am still not ready to run into her intentionally, but am getting closer.  I actually think that she will avoid these events if she knows I am going anyway but I need to process this enough to get comfortable with her being there...or not - as is my right.

I chatted to H about it and he rang the host to see if she will be there.  She won't, but we discussed how I feel about it and he is fully supportive of me never having to see her and us "managing" it going forward.  A year ago, he asked if he could still go but this year, when I asked if the "managing it" meant he went and I didn't, he said "$h!te no, I wouldn't do that??"

We had another interesting episode at the river when a friend of ours (and mutual friend of EVERYONE'S) brought a pilot friend of hers.   I had never met her but quickly deduced that she must know OW1 quite well because of her time in the company and training etc.  I didn't see the point in talking to H about this before hand but he did confirm later that he had hung out with her socially back in the day.  I took her on face value and found her to be friendly enough and warm-ish to me.  The friends that brought her with them love me, so that was nice.  Lots of "I firetrucking love you H&F" from the back of the ski boat as I drove their drunk butts home  . 

The interesting part of it was when I noticed H getting into a D&M with her one night.  He filled her in on the whole stalker thing and the reports to Crimestoppers, CASA and the company.  She was dutifully horrified (right!!) and H followed up admissions about how he has been a $h!te husband and average human being but now he and I are in a really good place and loving life.  That was pretty apparent anyway over the course of the weekend but it seemed like he needed to confirm it just in case anyone needed to report outcomes to the gossip mongers later.

Might have to end this here because I have to go out, but will maybe finish it off later if I think of anything to add 

[9393roo]

Thank you for continuing to post H and F it helps me to see I’m not alone in some of the new problems and issues that reconnection brings.  I do believe my H has turned a corner into honesty and remorse and beginning to face things, but bumps and hurdles continue to come up.  Trying to get back to slow and steady again.

I too believe we have both been living in denial since BD #2 back in 2018.  I told my H last night we have been living in a state of half a marriage for so long.  I told him half a marriage  does not work for me anymore.

Reconnection is an interesting thing.  So much work to be done from both parties.  So much to figure out.  Mine has been changing daily, sometimes hourly as I continue to work on myself.  Looking forward to a calm and steady marriage, I hope we can get there.

You sound good and boundaried.  I finding this is essential as I go forward.  He is turning over phone/text records to me now and he seems relieved about it.  He too had a problem with drunk texting.  90% of his sexual harassment complaint were from his texts.  I’m not his mother but he seems to need to be held accountable, one addiction of many he is working on breaking.

I think our stories show others that life isn't all hunky dorey when a spouse returns and wants the marriage.  They are broken and we are traumatized.  They can’t help us deal with any of our trauma.  It’s a lonely road back.  The MLCer knows they want to have a life with us but still can’t seem to connect the dots to get there.  It’s a long process, one that I feel I’m just beginning after 5 years. 

Thanks again for sharing.  I will post and update when my life settles down a bit.  Working through some things on my own and figuring out my path forward as I pull myself away from my H’s liminality.  Not a place I would want to be, it seems dark and scary. 

Hugs to you and wishes for calm waters ahead.

Roo

[Curiosity]

I’d like to also thank you for continuing to post about the ups and downs of reconnection. I’m not at that place, but my W is moving back home this weekend after almost 6 months living elsewhere (she’s very much a clinger and wallower so she has been spending large parts of her days here even while sleeping elsewhere, though). Even though she is moving back into the house, she hasn’t expressed any thoughts about coming back to the marriage so I don’t know if she is looking to sneak back in, or if she is just going to continue her MLC as a live-in.  Still... I feel like there is a lesson in every story that is open about the difficulties that arise even after it seems like they are moving closer to the LBS.

You seem to have healthy boundaries and a willingness to seek accountability from him while still giving him some space to work through his crisis. It’s a fine balance to do that at all; to do it while maintaining a healthy, loving detachment is even more challenging but it seems you have found that balance.

[hopeandfaith]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Curiosity and Roo.  It's funny how you don't really see your own strength or boundaries but others can.  In fact, it's the one thing that I can say I haven't done well in the past - boundaries.  I remember getting so frustrated with H's drinking very early on (can't remember if there were hints of ow then - perhaps) and I sent him a heartfelt letter.  That was my style back in the day.  Letters would be well thought out and well written, by H's own admission.  Didn't mean I got diddly squat out of it though.  He's never been good when cornered and I would be eagerly awaiting an agreement/apology response.  I remember reacting to his 'deer in the headlights' look one night following the recent receipt of a letter and just backing down completely on all the things I had asked him - in tears no less.  I signed myself up for a future full of more of the same after that. 

I am choosing to see it as a good sign that this has just come to my attention and realisation.  Like I am outside of that behaviour now.  I feel like I am.  I feel strong enough now to stand firm in knowing when something doesn't sit right with me and not being talked out of it.  I am learning to be ok with other people's discomfort when they have behaved badly and I don't feel the need to make it ok as much.  I haven't been tested a great deal lately so this muscle isn't getting a lot of work but it feels like it is a skill that is locked and loaded.

Thank you for continuing to post H and F it helps me to see I’m not alone in some of the new problems and issues that reconnection brings.  I do believe my H has turned a corner into honesty and remorse and beginning to face things, but bumps and hurdles continue to come up.  Trying to get back to slow and steady again.

From what I've read on your thread, he really seems to have woken the hell up....and the daylight is bright AF.  Really proud of how you are handling it and really rooting for your 'little crab without a shell' H who is bravely stepping forward.

Reconnection is an interesting thing.  So much work to be done from both parties.  So much to figure out.  Mine has been changing daily, sometimes hourly as I continue to work on myself.  Looking forward to a calm and steady marriage, I hope we can get there.

Me too.  Interesting thought came up when you mentioned the working on yourself part.  I actually feel like I have taken a break from that this year.  I remember my IC encouraging me to do that a while ago because I was almost doing it frantically.  I was.  It was my addiction.  When he came back, H filled a void and became my drug of choice again. Taking a break was also a conscious choice though because it put me in the same atmosphere as H - recovering without trying to push forward too much.  I am not sure that H is ever going to find himself in a psychologists office.  He just doesn't process and learn like that.  I have feared that it meant he wasn't doing any work but I can see that's not true.  By just living and not 'searching' I have noticed that insight still lands on me.  I don't need to manhandle it into being.  You know when you have those lightbulb moments on the toilet or in the shower.  I have made space for those.  I do miss some of those practices (yoga and meditation) and am starting to blend the separated H&F personality with the reconnecting H&F one.

He is turning over phone/text records to me now and he seems relieved about it.  He too had a problem with drunk texting.  90% of his sexual harassment complaint were from his texts.  I’m not his mother but he seems to need to be held accountable, one addiction of many he is working on breaking.

I have noticed this too.  I have swung from trying to school my H on the right way to live, to completely taking my hands off his wheel, to now acknowledging that I am in a position of leadership and that I should embrace it.  I don't know if that makes sense.  It's like I used try to control a lot, and then I switched to having no opinion (cos I am sooo detached) and now I have an opinion.  You don't have to like it or agree with it but if you are impacting my life, then it's there.  I am healthier and stronger emotionally than H right now so I choose to lead by example and attach enough to make him accountable.  Like you said, they do need help connecting the dots. 

Even though she is moving back into the house, she hasn’t expressed any thoughts about coming back to the marriage so I don’t know if she is looking to sneak back in, or if she is just going to continue her MLC as a live-in. 

Probably a bit of both if I had to guess.  She might be testing the waters to see if this is what she wants to do.  I am sending strength because this stuff is very difficult when they are home but you seem to be able to understand that this will not be a return to your former R or even the right time to start a new R. Slow and steady wins the race 


I was just thinking about something that happened the other day that kinda highlights H's progress.  We both had a bad nights sleep about a week or so ago.  We were sitting on the lawn and he was telling me all about the various things that had been keeping him awake; how to connect the outside TV antennae, how to cover the TV, how to get into his gun cabinet since his keys were stolen (because we are going deep into the outback on a trip soon and he wants it for security), what he needs to get at the hardware shop etc etc.....A very busy to do list.  He was frustrated about it until I pointed out that his reasons for losing sleep a year ago were a lot darker.  If this is the extent of his problems now, then that is a blessing.  I think he was amused and felt a bit normal - how blissful.

We do have a lot of good things to look forward to in the next couple of months.  I am quietly happy about this because for some reason May has been a really wobbly month for him in the past. It could be because ow's birthday is in that month but its more than that.  Our outback trip is booked for 2 weeks after her birthday and he is super excited about that. It's a trip he did with S in 2018 and it went ok apart from the $h!te he divulged to S about his women that he never should have.  He has been promising to take me there since then but it hasn't happened until now.  It looks like it will be our core family and S's girlfriend and D's boyfriend.  Quite the road trip.

Before that, I am going away on a work trip with H.  I will be with him for 3 nights in his hotel and will be working from there when he is at work during the day.  So basically our normal week but I will be in his world and not in mine.  He is really looking forward to it.  Weirdly, the night he tried to call ow last, he asked me to join him on a trip and said that he didn't care if it was her home town.  He figured I wouldn't want to go there but I said that I would.  There is too much damn mystery in that place and it needs to be unveiled.  I need to leave my energy there too so that he can see me instead of her.  Interesting that he would want to do that given that ow's sister works at the incoming airport and the rest of her family lives there.  It ain't that big a town so news would travel.  He was probably just trying to send a bit of "firetruck you" to ow since she didn't answer his call  I will get to that town eventually.  This trip is to another bigger city because that's just how it worked out with the flights.  It will still be interesting to insert myself into his work world because it's like inserting myself into the other him.  The him that had an MLC or whatever the hell that was.  Maybe memories of me there might be a calming influence going forward if he needs it.

Anyhoo, I will sign off now.  Never can keep it short can I 

[UrsaMajor]

Showing OW who is



And it isn't her.....