[tinnat]

For me the biggest challenge is understanding whether my H is REALLY going through an MLC, or whether is it simply my way to soften the blow for me, or better put, whether it helps me avoid a possible reality which is that, yes, my H no longer loves me and wants to be with me...

[Whyus]

Occurs to me belatedly that before the MLC lens, the one I used which was much more damaging was the 'my h' lens.....

My XW was just perfect through "my W" lens… in every aspect. Now when I see her, sure, she is still georgeous but I am no longer attracted to her as I was. She has had her eye Lids lifted since BD but still Looks older than she did. She even seems to be 5cm smaller than she was, really, its shocking. 
I on the otherhand am more confident and physically more atractive than I was before BD. She knows this, she gave me the look at S20s Birthday when I was having a photo taken with our Boys  .

The lens makes everything look better than it is…. it filters all the $h!te out of whatever you see.

[nah]

For me the biggest challenge is understanding whether my H is REALLY going through an MLC, or whether is it simply my way to soften the blow for me, or better put, whether it helps me avoid a possible reality which is that, yes, my H no longer loves me and wants to be with me...

If he is or is not having an MLC, in what way would your responses to his behavior be different?

[Treasur]

For me the biggest challenge is understanding whether my H is REALLY going through an MLC, or whether is it simply my way to soften the blow for me, or better put, whether it helps me avoid a possible reality which is that, yes, my H no longer loves me and wants to be with me...

If he is or is not having an MLC, in what way would your responses to his behavior be different?

And tbh, it can be both can't it? The crisis version of my former h was experiencing some kind of weird WIW and didn't love me or want to be with me. Chicken or egg, both were true and his behaviour was unacceptable.
So, Nah's question is a good one imho.

I went through a few lens looking back...my h lens, my severely depressed h lens, depression lens, MLC lens. I used most of them to give me hope, deny reality and make excuses for him. Then I went to a scary crazy nasty person lens which I used to protect myself,.then  back to a partial MLC/WIW lens where I maybe am now that I use to explain what I can't explain without it. Rightly or wrongly.

But without any lens at all, two things were self-evidently true. Something big and weird happened to my h which made him unrecognisable to all of us who knew him as a sane, decent, normal adult. And at some point he decided that my thoughts, feelings and basic wellbeing were completely irrelevant to him so that was how he behaved for a very long time. Can't make sense of either after 20 years but that did not stop them being how it was. Pretty confident that my xh did not use a 'bereaved wife with cancer' lens or even a 'decent human being who deserves basic respect' lens lol....I think I was a chair or a hated barrier to his new happy life to be destroyed ha ha

So, my survival and healing needed to be based on looking that reality right in the eye and making decisions accordingly. I say that now as if it was/is easy and we all know it really isn't. I do think you have to detach a bit and give up a bit to see what is in front of you. Maybe knowing what lens you are using helps?

[Thunder]

Looking at my H through the MLC lens was the only thing that made sense.
Either that, or he went totally bonkers.

If he went totally bonkers I would have walked away...fast.

[nah]

Looking at my H through the MLC lens was the only thing that made sense.
Either that, or he went totally bonkers.

If he went totally bonkers I would have walked away...fast.

Thunder, you have also said if your husband had an affair partner, you would have walked away fast, even if he had a MLC?

[Thunder]

That's true Nah, I would have.

I lived with a cheater for 18 years and promised myself I never would again.  Not for even one day.

I was talking about the personality change more when I said that.

[nah]

I guess why I was asking, both you and Tinnat, why does it matter if it’s MLC or not?  Okay, maybe them having a MLC can explain their behavior but should it change our boundaries?

[Treasur]

My truth - which I didn't want to be true tbh bc I loved my former h very much so I ignored it for a bit - was that the lies of ongoing infidelity was a deal breaker for me. Not saying it should be for others. Wasn't even the sex actually, it was the icky feeling of my h inviting a malevolent ghost into my life and sharing things about me and my life. Our old m was based on such a lot of trust and respect, I knew I could never be myself with him again. And I like being myself lol.

Took me until June 17 to know that in my bones lol....MLC creates a lot of distracting insanity along the way....but I would rather be alone than exposed like that. Nothing to do with love or why or even forgiveness...just my personal truth and what I need to be who I am in an intimate relationship. So I suppose that was my honest boundary and the point when I stopped wanting my h back in my life. Would have been nice to have a sane kind divorce, get some acknowledgement or even a goodbye...but uncomfortable as it was, that was my boundary. That I wasn't prepared to live out of my skin or feel unsafe for anyone else. No big gaslighting or lies, no cruelty, no abuse.

I am profoundly sad that my h became the kind of man who did those things, it was horrific to see bc he was a good human before despite his FOO...but he did and he is changed by doing them tbh, even his own life story is changed. He is not the man he was before self evidently; I have no idea who he will become or how he will learn to respect himself again but that's not my job or gift. I can still love him even, and feel sad about it, but it is the truth of things. My h loved me and chose me as his w bc of who I am actually...I did the same...he changed and took a different route, I didn't.

Forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation imho. And both people decide on their boundaries if they want to reconcile....although returning MLCers do seem to forget that lol.

[Mortesbride]

I guess why I was asking, both you and Tinnat, why does it matter if it’s MLC or not?  Okay, maybe them having a MLC can explain their behavior but should it change our boundaries?

One of the first things I said on this forum was that my line in the sand was when it became physical. That has always been a boundary for me in any relationship. I just can't.

But I loved him so much, I really wanted to be able to look at it...to understand that it was ''mlc'' or some other thing. I wanted to be able to overlook it. But really I think I only coped with that broken boundary by burying it away.

It was hidden somewhere under all the other mounting problems. The fact he had broke the boundary was hidden under monster, and blackmailing, disrespect, crappy fatherhood. There were so many other problems and issues to look at...that it seemed irrelevant to look at that one. The most painful one.

In the end though..that buried box of a broken boundary... It is still there. And all the pain and emotion of it are locked in it. But I don't think I could ever unbury it and look at it to forgive him. I will just leave it under the pile of other stuff that he brought.

At this stage it just feels better to walk away from the whole pile of rubble if I am honest. Find a new patch of Earth and build something completely different.

So I guess ''MLC'' wasn't a big enough excuse for me to forgive that broken boundary.