[sachat3]

Im so glad to be back on this thread.
Obviously as we speak outside the forum I don’t have all that much to add but just parking my butt back here and going to try and keep up

[MadLuv]

Congratulations on your new niece. Hopefully all evens out with your W work and isn’t nice that you can communicate these things again in support. Thank you for updating

[Curiosity]

Wow, I didn’t realize how much time had passed since my last update! So… I didn’t make it back to my state of origin to meet my niece. It was a bit of a saga… I made plans to go in July, W had to stay home because of work obligations. As I was waiting to board my flight, my mom called and told me she had Covid. She was really sad because we were all going to be together, to celebrate her birthday as well as meeting the baby, and now mom was going to have to miss it. Well… I boarded the flight, (luckily) purchased inflight WiFi, and proceeded to get messages about how one of my teenage nieces also tested positive so they were just going to leave to go back home. So the family gathering was canceled, and when I got to the connecting city, I changed my flight and went back home instead of traveling on to meet the baby. Turned out, the baby tested positive a few days later too. Everyone is fine now… but it was such a painful travel experience that I just haven’t mustered the will to get back on a plane yet. Anyway, the niece is lovely and, at three months old, perfectly cheerful and healthy.

I’m basically status quo… which is something of an achievement given that W has fallen into increasingly severe depression. She’s taking medication, has weekly therapy… and just isn’t getting better. I have mostly kept my thoughts to myself because she’s the patient and also has more professional knowledge of mental health than I do… but finally we reached a point where I said that I am frustrated because I feel like her therapist and psychiatrist aren’t doing enough for her. She agreed, and we discussed options for managing the depression. She had a consult for ketamine-assisted therapy, and is planning to seek that sort of treatment; we have both heard really positive things regarding its safety and success in treatment-resistant depression.

Anyway, one thing that struck me is that she was talking to me about her consult and all the things she discussed. Then said said that she didn’t even talk about some of the hard experiences, like losing the cat who had been her constant companion from her early 20s to her early 40s… and “the us stuff at the beginning of the pandemic.” (That was how she referred to BD and all of the EA and MLC stuff.) Anyway, what particularly stood out to me was her follow up, which was along the lines of “that was such a mess; I was not me during that time.” And I mean, we talked about it a bit back then, and she did apologize - though we never have had a detailed discussion about what exactly I felt during that time. I didn’t mind the shorthand that she used - I honestly don’t even mind if she doesn’t fully grasp the hurt and betrayal and anger that I felt during that time. But it was striking to me that she said “I wasn’t me.” It seems to me that, while MLC is, in many ways, a form of depression… not all depression is MLC.

Anyway, I am really happy that she is pursuing this treatment; I think it is really promising, and I do want to see her find happiness and joy again. And in terms of my own life, it would be nice to share in those happy moments with her. We do find moments of lightness and laughter now and then, even when her depression is really bad, but that joy and exuberance and wanting to be out in the world… it would be really good for her to find those things again.

Maybe it’s strange to say all of that and then to say that I am happy and my life is good. But really, it is… I feel comfortable with my work - respected, appreciated, and capable. I love my home and pets and city - I spend a lot more time at home than out in the world, but that suits me. It doesn’t feel like I’m hiding from the world, just seeking peace. I do think it would probably be good for me to be out in the world a little more than I am, but all in all… I’m happy, I am learning and growing and contributing to my little corner of the world.

[FaithWalker]

Good update C.  I hope that the latest treatment will really help your W with her depression.  I'm sorry that the 'vid messed up your meeting with your niece.  That's tough!

[MadLuv]

Thank you for the update’s curiosity.  I also hope that this treatment helps. It’s good that she is trying and continues to try and find something to help her. Also, my XH also in May told me “ I’m sorry. I don’t know what happened to me”  I think if your W finds help with her depression that maybe then when she is in a better health and mind set that she may be able to handle the talk of what her actions did to you, but as long as she is fighting her own mental battles those deep convos may not come.

[KayDee]

Wishing you strength Curiosity. It is very hard living with a depressed person. Many of us can testify to that, and you have the added context of your own pain, as part of the fall out of the MLC depression, to come to terms with. I know that you say that you don't mind that this is not discussed, and your instincts are probably correct here, that now is not the right time, but it does strike me that this maybe something you may want 'let go of' with you W at some point. I think it is part of our defenses to 'forget' the pain of this kind of thing, but it can easily be re-triggered. Stay strong and healthy, the journey continues!

[Curiosity]

Thanks for the responses and support, and the good wishes for W. I do agree that it may be good for me to actually be able to have the conversations about BD and how I felt during her crisis. I know that most of us don’t get the opportunity to really have that closure, and we have to learn to heal and move forward without it, and I do feel like I am and can remain healed and happy even if W is never able to meaningfully discuss it. But I do think it would be another step forward in the connection and intimacy between us to be able to truly be open about that time in our lives.

[Curiosity]

Wow, time flies! I come back to catch up on threads from time to time, but haven't had much to say with regard to my own story. We're living our lives - they're not perfect, but they're ours, and in general it seems like we've moved past MLC. It's not "as if it never happened," because I am fundamentally changed as a result of it, and therefore our marriage is fundamentally changed. But it doesn't define us.

The ketamine treatment seemed like it had done some good - some sessions were better than others, but overall her baseline mood was less depressed and yet she was still her sometimes-anxious, sometimes-depressed, sometimes-doing well self. Her mom was due to come stay for the winter in early November, but had a fall with a head injury about a week before she was due to leave. She had some injuries that required followup, though nothing lasting, and her visit was delayed by about a month so that she instead arrived in December. She seems more frail overall, uses a walker because her balance isn't as good as it used to be... but in general, she's okay. I feel like her visits are a mixed bag for W - W gets to feel like "a good daughter" because she can check in on her mom daily without having to remember to call before it gets too late in the evenings, but on the other hand, MIL's tendency toward depression can contribute to W's mood spiraling downward. Anyway... MIL is here and overall, it's probably more a positive than a negative.

As for W's depression... she's gradually slid back toward the same level of generally-sad mood that she was in before she had the ketamine treatments. She did a single maintenance treatment about 6 weeks after the series, and it didn't do much. Part of the issue is work-related burnout; she's been a bit less productive than her employers would like (when she was hired, they weren't really tracking productivity much, but the group is trying to grow and expand, and they're keeping closer tabs on their income and hours worked). She isn't the only one who is underperforming what the employers hoped for, but her response is that she already feels overwhelmed and now she also feels like a "problem child." The group had a meeting for all staff, and essentially said that they will be tracking productivity, and anyone below a certain level will basically be taking a pay cut - and I get it because the group has certain overhead costs and they have to be able to pay their bills even if some of their employees are working less than a full schedule. It's not an unfair thing - the bosses are basically just mandating things that were expected (but not demanded) all along. And W has said that the person they hired 3 years ago would have been excited for the group to grow, and excited about being more productive, but now she feels like she's broken. She says that she's going to try to meet their requirements but isn't optimistic that she can do it, so she's preparing for the possibility (maybe probability) that she will leave this job. She could potentially earn a higher income if she were self-employed, honestly, but the idea of having admin staff and working closely with colleagues was a big draw when she took this job... and I'm not sure that she is mentally healthy enough to work steadily (either for herself or in her current role), so I suspect that this year will include some degree of financial volatility in addition to the emotional volatility of having a person in the household with treatment-resistant depression.

This is a lot of information about her life, and very little about me, but it's my way of processing what's happening and perhaps venting a little bit - which is not really the right word because I'm certainly not angry at her or even at the situation. I do think that the LBS experience has helped me to navigate the uncertainty around this situation better than I would have before. I still don't love the uncertainty and I admit that there's still an anxious part of me that worries about being able to continue to live our lives the way we're accustomed to - my brain goes down the pathway of her essentially being unable to work (and also unable to cook or clean or otherwise help us cut our budget) and having to sell the house and move somewhere less expensive. And I'm frustrated because I feel so helpless sometimes - I see her sabotaging herself, knowing she has work to do but instead she lies in bed half the day and/or spends time playing games on her phone, and I hear her talking about how miserable she is and all I can do is say that I'm sorry things are so hard. And I know this is the depression, but still there's a part of me that wants to just tell her to put down the phone and do some work because the longer she avoids work, the bigger the backlog gets and the more overwhelming it will feel. But I feel like I can't do that - I'm not her mother or her keeper, and even if I were, I'm not sure that it would be helpful or productive to nag.

So...that's what life is like here. As some of you have said here, it's not easy to live with a depressed person (or right now, two depressed people because MIL will be here until the spring). But I am not depressed, and honestly I have a little situational anxiety but my baseline status is not particularly anxious either. So I exist in a state of "fine, basically happy." I enjoy conversations with my family - we spent this morning texting as we all watched the live stream of my 15 year old niece's varsity dance competition (they came in first!) and then my brother, SIL, and 13 year old niece went in front of the livestream camera to wave at us. I eagerly await pictures and videos of my 7 month old niece who is a beautiful, happy child. We went on vacation last week, and I was able to just be at peace, sitting on the balcony and watching the sun set over the ocean and then going for an absolutely lovely dinner. MIL and I got Covid upon our return, but it honestly hasn't felt like anything more than a slight cold. My work is going well - my boss and coworkers respect and appreciate me, I've been productive, I feel like I'm doing a good job and am comfortable with the scope of my responsibilities. There are things to learn, and I'm happy to learn them. I'm glad that the days are getting longer, and that we're having more sun than rain. I appreciate vacations, but I also find peace and joy and comfort in my home. Yes, living with a depressed person can come with challenges (which of course would be true whether or not MLC had happened) - but she's still the person I love. And despite those challenges, I still laugh and smile every day, and I still feel gratitude every day.

[FaithWalker]

You are doing well with managing living with depressed people and definitely the LBS experience helps with that immensely!  We have learned transferable skills for sure.

Thanks for coming and updating!

[Curiosity]

Not much is new here, but it's been several months so I wanted to post a bit of an update. First of all... at this point (and honestly, for quite a while now), I consider us to be fully reconciled. As I have said before (and as others have said), the MLC and its effects will always be a part of our stories individually, and will always be a part of our history. But it doesn't define us (either as individuals or as a couple). We've both learned and grown from it, and I feel like our relationship is more solid and real because we both made the choice to fight for it - and I feel like I am stronger and more attuned to my own emotions and my own individual identity as a result of my healing process.

W's relationship with her work has been steadily declining since the beginning of the year. As I mentioned, the group is in a growth phase and she feels less like a valued individual and more like a commodity. They're still respectful of her skills, but it's becoming clear that her professional goals are not compatible with those of her employers. So she's probably going to be making a change... which in some ways is a trip into a vast area of uncertainty, but in some ways has the potential to make her work something that actually brings fulfillment to her life. She'll be okay financially and professionally; she's not completely committed to leaving but it's highly likely, and her employers are aware that she's seriously considering leaving and they have offered to support her transition in any way they can. She has several professional contacts who have made similar decisions over the past several years, so there are a number of resources to address any questions she might have. Through all of this, I have shown my consistent support for her (because I do support her making whatever decision will allow her to find happiness and professional satisfaction), but have also been open about the unknown elements being a bit intimidating even though I know she (and we) will be fine. And it occurs to me that this is one of the things supporting the fact that we're reconciled - she's not avoiding, she's not trying to put her best foot forward, she's not hiding things from me and pretending things are okay. She's actually opening up to me about what's really going on in her mind and heart, and she wants to hear what I have to say. Through whatever ups and downs are going on in our lives, we actually go to each other for advice, for support, to seek comfort when needed, and to share joy when warranted.

My work is going well; I enjoy what I do and truly like and respect my coworkers. One of my mentors and colleagues, who is truly a wonder in a lot of ways, is going to be leaving the company in a few months. We work together very closely and a lot of our responsibilities overlap, but our professional backgrounds are different so our roles aren't exactly the same. She's not leaving entirely on her own terms; there's nothing urgent but she's been advised that she needs to avoid the level of stress that comes with her current role. So it's likely that they will hire someone to handle the parts of her role that are outside of my expertise, but I'll take on leadership of the team. It's a bit intimidating to think of having people who report to me, but it's something my boss has wanted for me for a while, and it is a good opportunity for growth. Still... I will miss my mentor and friend, though of course I am glad she is putting her own self-care first.

I've also been in more regular contact with my family and a couple of close friends. None of them live nearby, so it's almost all texting and email and the occasional phone call. I wish we could see each other more, but I'm so glad to feel like we can at least connect from a distance. In addition to the larger family text message thread, my siblings and I have been talking more, just among the 4 of us. As for the friends, I've previously mentioned that in the process of healing after BD, I've been having more real, vulnerable conversations with my friends. I often tend to put on a stoic/happy face, and say that everything is fine even when there are stressors. But in these 4 years, I've learned that being vulnerable helps strengthen relationships - I shared what I was going through, and invited them to be open with me as well. And while I was doing the bulk of the sharing at first, it's very clear now that in both of these friendships, they also can and do open up to me about their lives. I still wish that I got to spend more time with the people I love - but travel is hard and schedules are busy, and while text and email and phone conversations aren't exactly the same, I'm so happy that technology allows us to be connected.

So that's what's happening here. As I said before, I still come by and read threads from time to time, even though there's not much new to post. I still think of the people here often, with gratitude for the people who offered support and advice along the way, and with compassion for those who are still adjusting to the journey none of us ever wanted to start.