[JohnnyBravo]

[FrenchHusband]

Hello dear fellow LBS,

thanks for your wise advices. I am thinking carefully about the situation in a whole : who I am, what I want for me, for my family, for this company that will start and the relationship I want with YM and her children.
I will keep you informed about my decisions and the events.

[FrenchHusband]

So here after a few days the answers of your questions

Do you have any previous experience of setting up a business like this?

No experience of setting up a business like this, that is why it is so thrilling. I know how difficult the first years of a new company can be.
I have 20 years experience in managing projects and working with people as project manager. I have already launched a training center from scratch 20 years ago. And I have been trained in a business school for creating a new company.
IMO, what makes a project successful is the people, not the project.

Would you still do it if YM were not part of the mix?

I would say yes and no. If there were a business opportunity including people with whom I can have efficient and friendly relationship, yes, likely.

How much do you know about YM’s previous experience, her objectives in doing it and doing it with you, and what she would be like to work with as a business partner?

I know a lot of her life, and her objective is to develop a new business and have incomes in one year. For her it is a "do or die" project.
At this time she did not accept my offer of money investment. Whatever her choice, I want to support her and I am already supporting her and her project, as a friend.

you will be investing time, energy and money outside your family…..

the truth is I have time and energy available currently. I take nothing from the family. Regarding money, the money I will use is company common stock that is normally blocked until 2028. This is money not available for our needs, already a risky investment. I have the possibility to "unblock" this money for creating a new company.

If you find the idea thrilling, what has stopped you doing something similar in the past?

Until recently, my priority N°1 was our family : house, food, school, holidays... Priority 2 was W's family and W's projects that I have always supported (and I still do). As a "pleaser", my own projects have been always in priority 3.
I have made a mental switch in October and now I want to raise my own projects in priority 2. The other priorities remain unchanged.

Am I vulnerable ? Am I in MLC ?
First things first : thanks to write your comments, I read them with great attention and they have great price for me. I fully understand that you may believe I am under MLC and/or I am vulnerable. On the other hand, I have recently seen my IC and my spiritual counselor and both found me wise and sensible.
I am thankful for everyday, for every little thing in my life including children, friends, family, colleagues, parishers, even W.
I don't feel angry towards W and towards the choices I made in the last 20 years.
I am not anymore impatient to live something different from the life I have. I accept what is even W's MLC.
I can make mine your wise words , KD :

I approach most things with added caution and reflection, at the moment. Particularly new people who enter my life. I want to keep my same curiosity, sociability and joy, but I move slower.

And in case you forgot, less than a month ago, you wrote this….
[...]
Does that sound like a business relationship to you?
Or are you in danger of justifying and rationalising your behaviour in just the same way MLCers do?
[...]
If you decide not to, then hey ho, you will also be choosing the pretty predictable effects that may come with your choice. Bc, other than it making you feel good, I’m really not sure I can see how adding three more humans, two of them very young, will improve the mix of your current situation affecting five humans, three of them kids. Or indeed how it stacks up with the Christian beliefs you talk about as being so important to you and your family, other than as a reminder that all of us at times can be vulnerable to making choices that harm us and others and that this is part of why we hold hard to a set of beliefs that are about more than our own feelings at a given time.

I appreciate that this may seem like a tough choice for you and I am sending you my prayers that you choose well and wisely.

But hopefully someone else reading along will learn from your story regardless of your choice.

thanks to remind me my own words : I am not that man anymore. I cannot ignore the dangers I have myself highlighted to you and to my spiritual counselor.
My position is still the same since few days after the quote : I want to be a friend of YM, no more no less. The new business is not a magic fix I am seeking, it is sthing I wanted to do from long

Anyway, if I fall (fail ?) in MLC and become a MLCer, my testimony will become useful for the readers, won't it ?

A bit of journalling :

One thing that was off the rails, I recognize, and that is why I used the word "officialize" by lack of a better term. "Bring under light" might be more appropriate ? Anyway, I corrected it and after reading your posts and thinking about it, I informed W that I want to support YM in her business, and maybe invest money in her company. So she knows. And I told also our children. D16 and D14 want more details and want to give me their feedback on the products.
Please don't misunderstand me ! I don't dream of a nice life with YM, my children and hers ! I am only bringing under light what should not be secret.

My dad stayed 2 days at our home, and it was fine : W participates actively to the meals, last meals were full of jokes and laughters. She spends more time with D16 and D14.
And W is washing more and more every room, the fridge, the bathroom. Again, actions speak louder than words. W is not collaborating with "the adult mail list preparing Christmas", but she is seriously preparing my family coming in a few days. What a contrast ! 1 year ago she was almost totally disconnected from all housechores.

[FrenchHusband]

Hello all, I have many things to journal here ! The tough month of December is almost gone as is this year and my first year post Bomb Dropping. W is still at home and I am still alive, happy and in peace. Life is wonderful !

I said December would be a tough month for W : my niece lived with us the 3 first weeks, my dad came for 2 full days, and finally my 2 brothers came with whole family for 5 days for Christmas. According to Monster, my family is a bunch of racists who did not welcome W well and who do not consider W. And in September, W told me she might not be at home for Christmas. Well, in that context, it went not that bad. The circumstances have been favourable

December 23th
W is gone for the full day. She says to the children and to me that she is sending medicaments in her country. I discover that, actually, she has taken a flight for Switzerland : back and forth in the day  . So a big lie. It does not upset me, and I choose not to say a word about it to W and to the children. I guess it is still the escape plan...
With the children we do a lot of cleaning in the house. In the evening my nephew N22 will arrive but he plans to arrive around 10pm. At 8pm I tell to the girls that I am tired and I will go to sleep soon, I ask them whether they can greet N22 . D14 shows me her forehead so that I can kiss her for goodnight, and I say "ho I will not sleep immediately, I have to do the dishes first". And D16 says immediately "dad, may I do the dishes ?" So glad am I with the children !

December 24th
As I am sometimes doubtful about Standing, I have asked the Lord to send me a sign in the previous days, and here I see today a small rosebud on our rosebush. Is it real ? Will it grow ?
We continue to prepare the rooms for Christmas. W is cleaning again what we have cleaned the day before (I let her do it).. I help D16 and D14 to finish their presents. Between other gifts, they have prepared a personalized game of "les loups garous de Thiercellin" (French game, very popular, that we are playing in family or with friends, you may know more by clicking on the link). They have replaced the original characters by members of our family including my brothers, their wives and children, my father and his wife. Each card is personalized, and our family is pictured as werewolves, the antagonists. S5 is a werewolk kid, D16 and D14 are ugly werewolves. For W and I they have taken same picture, only differences being the color of the fur, white for me and black for W.
My brothers arrive in the afternoon, together (adults and children) we prepare the food for the dinner. D14 and her cousin cooks two Christmas log cakes.
We are now 19 at home, 6 adults and 13 kids from 5 to 22 yo.
 At 5:20pm I go with some children in advance to the church as 3 children want to play music, 3 other children will read during the skit before the mass, and 4  will take part of the skit. The chosen thema is the peace and the priest gives us a well inspired homily. I play music at the beginning of the skit then I will sit to the only place left next to our family. It happens that I am next to W  . During the mass she gives ostentatiously to me the gesture of peace, I extend my hand and she takes it. In a nutshell, the mass is beautiful moment together. Then we have a nice dinner. W is cold but answers when she is talked to. As she works the next day and wakes up very early, she will sleep in the room with the smallest children and we limit the noise level.

December 25th
It's Christmas ! many presents are in front of the chimney ! Better to open them before W comes back, not that the children can not wait, but that may be boring for W. I got one gift from D16 and D14 that they have chosen and W has paid.
We have organized all meals together in anticipation so that it goes smooth, and all the children are involved in the chores. And it works ! Every person does the work in joy and peace and we can all enjoy the nice moments and share the food. Unexpectely W comes back few minutes after noon (normally it is 1:30pm) and we can all eat together. W opens her gifts (she has the biggest pile ) and thanks everybody in few words.
My brother B2 takes the train because he will work tomorrow. On one hand, I would have been glad to see him more, OTOH, it will be a bit easier for W.

December 26th
W is working today, again. In hindsight it is good that she works during these days, that limits the time with everybody and it is more progressive. We go in a very nice village between sea and moutain, almost everybody swims in the sea, then we eat and go for a walk/visit. Again a wonderful day. In the evening and during dinner W is less cold and talks more with all of us : small reconnection with the family.
Very nice evening, children play together and adults chat. W has nothing to do in the anticipated planning, and she does many small things unplanned that are fine : opening a good bottle of wine, offering chocolates, preparing tea or herbal infusion. Very fine !

December 27th
W is not working ! She knows the propositions for today, she even made proposals. Will she join us ? Yes, and that was unexpected : the morning she joins the village visit (with me). Nobody complains when she receives a call from her country and she stays 5 meter distance to answer the call in her language.
In the afternoon she takes her car to drive SIL and 2 children in another visit. Last evening and the reconnection with my family continues, steadily and cautiously. Baby steps.
In the evening, noise is coming from the kitchen as the adults are still seated : it is the children who have put the music on and they are dancing, kind of dance battle while 3 of them are still doing the dishes. Can you imagine it ? We adults begin to laugh, brother1 and I stand up also and try to dance.
 
December 28th
finally my brothers leave us. W accompanies the car salutations and kisses everybody. I am glad for the days we have spent together and I am glad I insisted with my brothers who wanted initially to make the visit shorter. I have not told them (but SIL2) about MLC, I only told them to pray for us in January, but they know something is wrong btwn us.
I am glad because our children have spent very good time together. I am glad that all the adults have spent very nice time together. Between the children it was wonderful : when they were smaller they were often in small groups, kind of clans excluding the others. Now they are a big clan, united and loving. It would be long (and boring for the readers  ) to list all the good moments together. There was only a moment of tension that lasted 2 minutes when one of the oldest girls expressed her dissatisfaction regarding the chore planning. 2 minutes. I humbly daresay that I see these 5 days were a small sign of the Kingdom of God. Whatever the future will bring, I am glad and blessed for these days.

Then, the same day, I had a discussion with W, I will journal it later as the post is long enough. Thank you all here for this site, for the nice advices and the time spent to help LBSs. Without your help and the help of God I would not be able to enjoy life as I am now.

[Reinventing]

Wonderful post. You sound good. And your posts are interesting and not too long. Include all the details you want too.

[xyzcf]

As I am sometimes doubtful about Standing, I have asked the Lord to send me a sign in the previous days, and here I see today a small rosebud on our rosebush.

I immediately thought of  St. Therese of Lisieux  and I was just looking her up to refresh my memory...and came upon the following quote  which summed up to me what your Christmas time was like:

True Charity consists in bearing with all the defects of our neighbor, in not being surprised at his failings, and in being edified by his least virtues; Charity must not remain shut up in the depths of the heart, for no man lighteth a candle and putteth it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house. (Cf. Matthew 5:15). It seems to me that this candle represents the Charity which ought to enlighten and make joyful, not only those who are dearest to me, but all who are in the house.

A word, a kindly smile, will often suffice to gladden a wounded and sorrowful heart.

I humbly daresay that I see these 5 days were a small sign of the Kingdom of God. Whatever the future will bring, I am glad and blessed for these days.

Without your help and the help of God I would not be able to enjoy life as I am now.

I am happy that you shared your Christmas with others. I too spent 6 days together as a family and it was one of the nicest Christmases that I have had in 14 years.

So many posters here struggled through this time, so many do not have family to surround them. It can be a very hard time for many people.

The support offered one another here is a "gift" for we, as a community, understand the pain that the others are feeling.

You have not closed your heart to her FrenchHusband and you have managed to create a life with your children and family that she can participate in or not.

Joyeux Noël en cette période bénie de l'année et paix à tous!

[FrenchHusband]

Thank you very much Reinventing and xyzcf for your nice comments ! Yes xyzcf you are spot on. I feel so much joy in this time, and funnily the rosebush and the lemon tree are flourishing like they never did : so many lemons !

Now I would like to tell here the discussion I had with W in the afternoon, same day the family left us. I was doing the dishes when I saw W crossing the living room, she was keeping her cellphone close (as always  ) and I heard a voice talking that  reminded me the one from OM. That was a boundary for me so I went out of the kitchen to be sure this voice was OM's. When I came next to W she was looking at her phone and she cried to me : what's up ? I said it is ok. Then she insisted crying, and I said : it is not OM, so it is OK.
It was clearly a slip up from my side, because it was not intentional. I know talking about OM is not bringing any good, and I don't want to push W further. On the other hand, I am glad I slipped up. Since one year I know who is You-Know-Who and I keep his name secret, this secret is burning sometimes and I imagine in my head conversations with W, that makes me no good. So I am relieved the name of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named is out now. And now, I know she knew I knew (in hindsight, I guess from strange words she said, she knew it since June 23).

Then I am glad with myself, because I have been able to phrase it as a boundary (actually it was my boundary before) : I don't want to hear the voice of OM under our roof. W said that she can listen to whoever she wants, and I said yes you can, but not in our home. W immediately tried to push that boundary : "as you don't like it I will do it" (very teenage-ish  ). So I had to say out loud the consequence : "If you do that then I will tell everybody who is that guy".

And I got Monster. Hey it's you ! long time no see  . And once again, the blames from the past, many years ago. And, it was a nice surprise for me, it does not hurt anymore. I wrote here that I am detached and I have "dropped the rope". But until this discussion I was not sure of myself. Now, the way I have faced Monster this time confirms to me I have dropped the rope. (actually, even after this confirmation, I am still not fully conviced, I have still a few doubts, time will tell if I am right)

Monster does not hurt me anymore : when W is talking about bad behaviours I had in the past, I assertively answer : I take responsibility, I have worked on myself and I make sure to act differently today. When W is projecting on me her own fears and insecurities, I kindly answer that it's not me and I ask for examples. e.g. when have I been manipulative and to whom ? W has not been able to find and example in our 20 years common life, so she escaped : "search" 
I am glad I have not blamed W for anything. I am glad I have not patronized W during this discussion. I have given to W some hints about what I am doing "I have worked on my child wounds to understand my bad behaviours and to change them". She can do what she wants from my words.
And by being assertive and explaining the work on myself I am doing with IC and SC, I have seen a change in W. She has switched from Monster to a person who is listening and nodding. So, even with non-verbal communication (not my strong point) I understand I have managed well the discussion.

it is not the first time that, when I think about Monster, I find there is an analogy with the Boggart in Harry Potter world : "A Boggart is a shape-shifting creature that will assume the form of whatever most frightens the person who encounters it." and "Boggarts seem to embody the human emotion of fear, and consequently feed on other beings' fears"

I am not afraid by Monster anymore. I know I can face any "shape" taken by my W. When she is cold and distant, it is another shape. When she puts on the beeper on the phone for texts, that has no effect on me (she did that few weeks ago, I did not react and she stopped few days after  ). I am not afraid of what she may throw to me in the future : my feet are well attached on the ground and I know, even when I am unprepared, I can respond and not react.

So to come back to the discussion, I got a new blame that was not something from the past, and not a projection. Please let's play the drum roll !
"why wait 20 years of marriage to become a saint ?" Me :  "I am not a saint, I am not perfect, it is true I want to become one but thanks to you, thanks to the children and the people I love I know that there are many things I have to improve within myself".

At the end of the discussion, W came back with fear and insecurity again, and same words from previous discussions : "I can not trust" "the couple is broken, you must accept it". Me : "I have accepted it since one year ago" (to be more precise, I should have said "I have been accepting it for one year)

I am still in holidays at home this week. New Year's Eve was very fine. After many days of feast with my brothers we have made something simple in family, only D14 was outside with a friend. I have cooked with D16 (who is not so skilled in cooking, so I was glad to cook this time with here) and S5 has given a hand. D14 had given very clear instructions for the lemon pie so it has been also a success. W finished her dinner very quick and stood up to do the dishes, and the children and me are not affected : we stayed at table, jesting and enjoying the time together, then after meal we played together more than usual while W is in the room where she sleeps.

Life is beautiful ! Happy New year to all of you and I wish you Peace, Love and Joy. Thanks the Lord I got plenty of those in 2023.

[Reinventing]

I am not afraid by Monster anymore.

That is a nice level of detachment to reach. Loved the Harry Potter quotes that describe monster.

If you do that then I will tell everybody who is that guy.

An good example of the wording of a boundary. If you......then I........

I can not trust

We've talked about this on this site before on different threads. They are untrustworthy so they project that on to you.

Also, switching the conversation and deflecting from the real issue--them and their infidelity--by bringing up your "issues".

You seem to see this pretty clearly, hence your detachment from monster. Glad you and your daughters are able to enjoy yourselves and each other, even when your W is acting out or removing herself and missing out.

[Baxter1]

FH-

Bravo! Standing up to monster is no easy task but with time comes the knowledge and strength to be able to do so. I haven’t seen monster in some time either, I’m just sticking to my boundaries and if he does show up I’m ready, this experience has given my the strength to take on anything that monster can send my way.

[FrenchHusband]

Thanks R for your kind answer. I loved to insert quotes and hints of JKR world in my post 

Now I have reached and even overcome the aniversary of BD. This date (1/1/23) is meaningless for me but, as a New Year is coming, I guess it is time for me to write here a kind of "annual report" to summarize where I am and where I want to go.

Me one year ago and after
At BD I was totally lost, my nights were very short : 3 sleepless nights when I discovered about OM, then I waited few days and initiated "The" discussion that leaded to the BD "I don't love you anymore". Never would I have expected this to happen to us, to me, to W.
At this time, I wanted to end it in a few days : either divorce, either reconciliation. But quick, quick ! Each day was never ending. Thanks God I was already praying a lot, and I was working on myself. I thought it was a couple crisis and it would end it soon. Fool I was ! But this survival mode was what I needed, and I am glad I have been able to survive the first days without big damages.

The discovery of the OM few days before BD was also for me the day that I went off my own MLC/MLT. Good reminder for me of what I was and what progresses I made.

"Time can be your worst friend or your best friend"
Now I understand better and better this sentence. Since my first years, it looks to me that the time is accelerating. Recently, years have been passing like days. This process stopped brutally at BD and the first days seemed years, full of pain and shock. I am glad I have used the "gift given by W" (according to OldPilot) to become a better person.

Now I am not feeling pain, instead my life is full of joy. AND I feel I am blessed because the time is passing very slowly. I enjoy everyday : e.g. today I have cooked a lemon pie (with help of D14, it has become a masterpiece  ) then I spent many hours with S5, 4 parents in a public park where we sat, ate and discussed together outside while the 7 children played together. Now I am in our living room, S5 is playing near me and D16 is studying. After posting I will play with S5. Then we will eat together when W comes back from work.

MLC or MLT ?
I have been told by Standing Strong that I should wait one year  at least to guess whether it is MLT or MLC. So here we are, the 1-year mark. Now it seems to me less important to classify or to rank what I am facing.

When I compare to my fellows LBS, it looks to me the MLC is milder for the moment :
- there is no big change in clothes, no tatoo, no drug or alcohol addiction
- W never told me she wants to divorce, only twice she evocated that she might leave
- W is still at home and she reconnects with our children (more with S5)
- W has not crossed the few boundaries that I have set up
- the amount of damage is limited. For many people, friends, and far family, we are a "normal" couple, even a "model" one for those who see us mainly outside.

On the other hand :
- I know the destruction could happen anytime
- W is still working in secret on her escape path that includes abandonment of our children.
- W is still cold and distant with me. No progress.
- OM is still stuck and brings at least distraction, at worse very bad influence.

Other observation :
- W is spending a lot of time on her phone talking to and about her family. I hope this will help her to proceed in the tunnel, but honestly, I don't know if it will

Living with an at-home spouse under MLC + Low Energy / Wallower
I don't know what is the best situation between a spouse who leaves the family home, and a spouse who stays at home. I see there are pros and cons. The main cons are IMO the amount of damage. Currently, I can manage the few damages and continue to live well. So, I prefer that my W is at home. 
Would she leave our home, maybe it would accelerate the timeline of MLC, but that would affect our children and also that would increase hugely the number of people aware of the situation. So I prefer the situation as is.

Glad you and your daughters are able to enjoy yourselves and each other, even when your W is acting out or removing herself and missing out.

You have not closed your heart to her FrenchHusband and you have managed to create a life with your children and family that she can participate in or not.

It is exactly the point, thanks Reinventing and xyzcf to write it. The children & I are able to have a good life together. We are living "as if she would never come back" when she withdraws. And she is always welcome to join us, actuallys she joins us at almost all big events. As I am not expecting anything, I am each time glad by her presence and the things, small or big that she brings to these events. 2023 will stay in the memories of me and our children as a year full of very good moments, whatever the future will bring.

2024 !
2024 looks good ! I see many good events will happen, full of joy. January-March the birthdays of our children. February holidays, April holidays, May the Sacrament of Confirmation for D14. June the trek I organize with friends from Italy and France, and the final exam for D16 who will finish high school.
In July D16 will likely participate to the World Championships of her sport (representative of W's country  ).
Then in September D16 will likely leave our home and begin University (she is currently working hard for her dream of joining a prestigious political science University). D14 will begin High School and S5 will begin primary school.
I can't see already what will come for the last months. But I am already determined to have many very good moments in the life. I plan to invite frequently friends at our home to share meals in simplicity and joy. I will continue to fully support our children when they invite their friends at our home.
W might join or not these quality events, she might even initiate them ? Her place is here if she wants to. If she leaves us, too bad for her !
And that, without speaking of our new parish with many new young parishers, and work where I will work on new exciting projects. And maybe also YM's new company ?

Standing and Timeline ?
Am I still standing ? I guess yes. Walking would be more accurate to describe my position. It is an inner journey that I am experimenting and I want to continue it whatever will be W's journey. Will our roads cross again ? I hope they will, I don't expect it will be short term.
Many times during 2023 I have set for myself time limits : not have R discussions until this date. It has been reassuring to set time limits, not as expectations but as targets. The more time goes by, the less I needed time limits. I have no time limit now, as i now know that timelines bring expectations. I don't try to understand which phase is my wife.

I don't want to push or pressure W. I don't want to file or to divorce. My position might change in accordance with the events.