[Atari25]

I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to shorten or decrease the MLC. The only influence we LBS can have on the MLC is negative, or neutral at best. As WHY writes, I think focussing on our spouses under MLC is a waste of time and only leads to delusion when our expectations are unmet. The LBS focussing on the LBS and the children is the right move IMHO.

Everything I have read and heard indicates that therapy can shorten MLC. It makes sense. If someone gets help to sort thorough their issues they should come out of it faster.

Like I said I remain strong and focused on my kids and family. I always have and that will never ever change. My wife is still family. I know there is very little I can do, my daughter is pushing her.

[Atari25]

I just think if people had happy endings.  They would come back to post and give people hope.  Even if 10 years had passed. 

The lack of happy stories leads me to believe there are few.

I'm late to this party but wanted to mention that I know of at least 3 recons that just decided to walk away from the forum because they didn't want anyone judging, didn't want to explain, didn't want any input on their situation at all. So there is a small percentage that do just recon and leave. You cannot assume that if someone doesn't post "We're back together and so happy" that it didn't happen. Hard for those who would like that information for sure, but everyone gets to choose for themselves.

I appreciate the post.

I know odds are probably against me but I cannot give up. It's almost certainly long road back. Maybe things will turn for the worse and my thinking will change.

I appreciate everyones opinion though. Hard reality is she is gone and she is full blown MLC and very delusional at times.

[Songanddance]

but I cannot give up

And no -one is asking you to do just that.  This is not a "kick them to the kerb" forum.

However as Acorn states - staying attached to an idea creates anxiety and it is that anxiety that keeps people stuck. 

You say your D is pushing your wife to therapy.  It's natural for them to want that.

Everything I have read and heard indicates that therapy can shorten MLC. It makes sense. If someone gets help to sort thorough their issues they should come out of it faste

The thing is - it makes sense to logical people.  MLCers are illogical.  If you have PTSD or have had some kind of trauma and it all comes to a head but your behaviour around the family remains consistent and true then therapy is often a good thing.

However, as you say your MLCer is deluded, therefore  the outcome of any therapy might make it worse for the loved ones.  The therapist can only work with what the client says about themselves.  And so there is the high risk that,even if the MLCer goes to therapy, (and very often they refuse because " there's nothing wrong with them!")  the outcome will have the opposite desired effect.

[WHY]

but I cannot give up

However, as you say your MLCer is deluded, therefore  the outcome of any therapy might make it worse for the loved ones.

That’s why they need a psychiatrist vs a therapist IMO.  Look at delusional disorder.  False believes even when presented with real life evidence that contradicts what they belief?  You can’t talk therapy someone who’s delusional.   

[marvin4242]

That’s why they need a psychiatrist vs a therapist IMO.  Look at delusional disorder.  False believes even when presented with real life evidence that contradicts what they belief?  You can’t talk therapy someone who’s delusional.

I am not sure I follow this line of reasoning. Psychiatrist can deal with neurochemical issues. There are certain mental health problems that definitely are helped or addressed by medication. But if someone is having a psychological crisis due to childhood trauma or other incomplete developmental issues what do you think a psychiatrist can do?

One of the many dangers of untrained diagnosis is that symptomology can cover many many varying conditions with great overlap. This also applies to organic diseases, so it’s very easy to read descriptions and apply them incorrectly.

I think we all would like to make sense of something that does not inherently make sense externally. We grasp to explanations or try to figure something out. Because we believe that if we can name it then we can address it. Unfortunately this is not how the human mind works and it’s just not that simple.

[WHY]

Agreed.  But we keep saying there's underlying depression throughout MLC, which is neurochemical.  Wouldnt it be logical to assume there must be some sort of neurochemical issue at play, whether we understand it or not.  I'd argue that it makes more sense that there is.

And guess what the most common comorbidity with depression is?  Delusional disorder....

I just wish we had more understanding of what happens during this massive psychological event that completely alters personality.  I dont think we've scratched the surface. 

[Ready2Transform]

Back in the day (if you look over some of the old research threads in the archives) we also felt it was an aha moment when we found Dissociative Fugue. It also sounds on paper like other things. My xH did have a psychiatrist...and therapist...and MD. They thought it was bipolar disorder. They also thought it was social anxiety. They can only go on what the patient told them, and perform what kind of treatment the patient was willing to undertake. My father lambasted me for a while for not having my xH committed - as though I had that power! This is not 1950. Thank God! If someone isn't a risk physically to themselves or others, there is not the option to entrap them and refuse to let them make their own choices.

[Nas]

And guess what the most common comorbidity with depression is?  Delusional disorder....

This is simply just not true. There’s a real danger in making statements like this. Delusional disorder is actually exceedingly rare. As has been said, the description of delusional disorder may sound to a layperson like what many lbs are dealing with, but it’s a misinterpretation of the described symptoms.

Just to give a real world example of how untrained diagnosis can lead lead to further distress and unnecessary harm to our emotional well-being: recently I had a scan that showed what the radiologist wrote up as some alarming findings. I was given a copy of the radiologist’s report prior to meeting with my oncologist. So I spent several days in distress and trying not to consult Dr Google about what these findings actually were. When I finally met with the oncologist, it turns out I’m fine. Nothing to worry about. So after having gotten that good news, then I went to Google and typed in the particular finding, which brought up frighteningly scary information. Statistics and descriptions that fit me to a T and would have had me completely convinced that I was a goner.

What happened was the result of an overzealous but slightly overconfident radiologist who overestimated his knowledge of my particular rare subset of breast cancer. And he is a highly trained professional. We need to be really careful about putting ideas out there and especially when stating them as fact.

[WHY]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3109/00048674.2010.551279
Depressive disorders were the most common psychiatric, comorbid disorders with DD (32.6%), followed by anxiety disorders (14.0%).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S092493381601381X
Depression is a highly prevalent condition among patients with delusional disorder.

[Nas]

Why, all this means is that of the relatively small population who have diagnosed delusional disorder, some of that small group also have depression.